| From: | Erik Jameson <erikj@****.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Another Dead Judge |
| Date: | Mon, 3 Aug 1998 17:34:34 -0400 |
>Corporate Shadowfiles, pages 57 to 61. The megas _do_ pay taxes, and
>there _have_ been shooting incidents in the past over the issue, and the
>megacorps (in the case mentioned, Aztechnology) backed down after taking
>losses.
But they don't pay anywhere near as much as they should (should be same
pages). And yes, they've backed down because in the cost analysis, it was
cheaper to pay some taxes than none at all.
>Cybertechnology, Page 88, for FASA's opinion of what national militaries
>think of megacorporations.
Oh, I agree with that. I never said that a corporate army could go toe to
toe with the UCAS Marines. But I think you and/or Mitchell are badly
overvaluing the overall power of the UCAS and underestimating the power of
the megas.
>Well, Erik, there FASA makes a major divergence from reality and their
>own previous material. Ares doesn't have the troops. The UCAS does.
Read your Shadowfiles again. They've got a lot of trained folks running
around with big guns, much more than their standing military forces. And
it's in the FASA canon that Ares had to help the UCAS quell the riots after
the Big D's death. That indicates to me that the UCAS had neither the
military nor police force required to do the job itself, a megacorp had to
step in. Which also implies that under the large Ares umbrella, there's a
lot of military/security type folks running around with an Ares patch on
their shoulder.
>Now, Ares was able to build up and sustain forces equal to even a tenth
>of that grouping? I suggest you run a few numbers to work out just what
>it would cost Ares to do that...
Paul, come on, don't get snippy. You know as well as I do that few on TK
or RN can dispute your knowledge of the military. But you've also got to
realize that FASA doesn't have this knowledge and may have made canon
statements regarding troop size without realizing if it was feasible or not.
You say that about 10K people were needed for the CZ. According to FASA,
this was a *major* drain on their military resources, enough so that the
Occupation Army incident (detailed in one of the novels, later is given
full canon status in later sourcebooks though only briefly mentioned)
creates a major stir because the UCAS is unable to respond militarily,
sufficiently. If that's really the case, the UCAS Army must be seriously
down in numbers. Which also means that they may not be as strong as you
believe. I wouldn't doubt if there were less than 100K (and perhaps 50K)
front line troops left, for all four branches combined. Still a lot more
than the megas have, but it's still down considerably from today. Might
not make any military sense at all, but that's the sense I've gotten from
FASA. I mean, we all know that the game rules don't mimic real life very
well at all, right? Why should their treatment of the army be any different?
>It's entirely credible that some of the tower guards were backed up by
>Knight-Errant or other troops, and that Ares would pick up some load on
>the logistics side.
More than credible, it's in the books. I never said they ran the whole
show or had the majority of troops. But they did have a very solid presence.
>Erik - This is an old and well-worn argument, and one that's been gone
>over several times now and in the past. You may find that not everyone
>shares your views on the primacy of megacorporations.
I don't expect them to. I don't believe the megas are ultra-powerful
either. But I do think that the UCAS isn't anywhere near as strong as you
posit.
>As a single for-instance, I'm moderately versed in underwater weapons
>development and use, and there's simply no way any corporation - "mega"
>or not - could field any effective blue-water ASW force, especially
>given their need for global coverage. You can buy a few ships and
>weapons, but the training required is the key and it is _expensive_.
Totally agreed Paul. Again, I never claimed that the megas could compete
with the UCAS in the military side of the equation. That really is the
single edge that the UCAS and other nations have over the megas. Since the
UCAS doesn't need to make a profit, it can spend money on losing ventures
like a navy.
>The Big Eight, combined, have the economic muscle to crush any nation
>that makes an unprovoked assault on a corporation. But, no
>megacorporation can engage in open conflict with a major nation alone
>and win: and megacorps have a vested interest in _not_ weakening or
>threatening their customers.
I'd say that Ares alone (in 2059) could crush the UCAS. Ares is too strong
and the UCAS too weakened from recent events. Damien Knight has got to be
the most influential private individual in the UCAS gov; plenty gets done
because it makes him happy. By 2060, that changes some.
>unlikely move. Does the name Yvonne Fletcher ring any bells?
No.
>>As an aside, I'm also rather shocked towards Mitchell's extremely callous
>>comments regarding the Marketeer being a cripple.
>
>Tough. Mitchell is massively pissed off at the Marketeer. Debating corps
>versus nations, fine, no problem. Cheap shots at the men who died beside
>Mitchell fighting bugs, that's a _very_ low blow. So the Marketeer's a
>cripple? So what? That give him some special dispensation?
I didn't say upset, I said shocked, as in suprised. Cheap shots?
Marketeer doesn't know the men, doesn't know what happened, doesn't care.
He didn't go about profaning their memory though. Mitchell could care less
about shadowrunners dieing. Why should he be suprised by the mirror reaction?
>You stand up for your troops, Erik. Especially against whining SINless
>civilians sniping from the sidelines.
>
>"Hey, all those friends you fought with, lots of whom are now dead? I
>say they were wasting their time and I could have done way better if I'd
>been in charge, and they're dead anyway so deal with it..."
Marketeer never said *he* could do better. And it's part of what a
civilian, especially civilian politicans, should do. Snipe at the
military, the police, anyone that wields tremendous real power. Yes, it
sucks to be sniped at and be called into question. Asking questions of
them if for no other reason than to make them rationalize their actions and
be able to defend them. I don't have to know dick about strategy and
tactics to call a manuver into question. But the alternative is to let
them run roughshod; it's merely a small way of keeping those forces in
check. And besides, *everyone* can use a swift kick in the ass on
occassion, myself not excluded.
Erik J.
http://www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/dungeon/480/index.html
The Reality Check for a Fictional World
