| From: | Mach <mach@****.CALTECH.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Japanese Language (Words for those who know none) |
| Date: | Sat, 29 Aug 1998 01:14:48 -0700 |
> The following is only a brief coverage of various words and phrases, and
> while hardly comprehensive, might just help a few people to add a little
> localised colour to their characters.
Grumble...grumble...mutter....
I hate to say this, Pete, but frankly this may do more harm than good. I
have had the fortune to take some Japanese classes, and the misfortune of
learning enough to recognize how badly it can be done by non-Japanese who
try to use Japanese (or Japanese culture) to make something sound *COOL*
(*ahem William Gibson *ahem*). Or the recent rage among comic artists to
attempt to pay hommage to the Japanese comic or "manga" style and often
end up falling rather short (including one that I have thankfully
forgotten, whose title, subtitled in Japanese was misspelled rather
aggregiously). Don't get me wrong, the reverse is also true: the Japanese
public have a love affair with Americana and English is used quite
frequently in music, television, and advertizing, while often being
butchered nearly beyond recognition in the process.
I.E. lack of an ending to pluralize nouns means one can often see new
items being listed as "In store now!"
Oh dear! Only in one store in all of Japan, how will they find it?
Unfortunately, not only are words different, but _language_ is quite
different between most cultures, so I would strongly suggest people
without a good grasp of Japanese Grammar not attempt to cut and paste a
sentence together out of things he gave here, or you will come out with
something incomprehensible to a genuine speaker.
Also, there are many words and phrases listed that may be inappropriate, or
simply misused by someone unfamiliar with the language. One of the more
basic concepts that is stressed in Japanese is formality. To put it in
simple SR terms, one would not speak the same way to a Fixer, or a Johnson
the same way one would to a fellow runner which would be different from
the way one would speak to a friend. This effects such varied things as:
Honorifics:
*-san - mildly honorific. Effectively Mr. or Ms. but nearly always used
tacked onto someone's name.
*-chan - diminuative. Typically used with children, or b/f (usu.) g/f
(rare) who want to be "cute" to each other, or who were childhood
friends. Guys don't use this to another guy unless you are
treating him like a kid, or asking him out on a date.
*-kun - weak-honorific. Typically used among peers (usu. young), or from
an adult superior to subordinate.
*-sama - extremely honorific. What you add to the name of the local Yak
boss so you won't have to leave the meeting with less than ten
fingers.
Calling someone by their first name, even with an honorific, is a sign of
intimacy greater than it signifies in the U.S. and typically only done
among close friends, longtime co-workers, or children, while calling
someone by their first name without honorific means that you are "really"
close (i.e. best of friends or lovers). People that have known each
other for years, still will often refer to each other by last names, and
even if on a given-name basis (since traditionally Japanese names are
family-name first, followed by given-name) they still use *-san or *-kun.
Note: there are several other honorifics, but this is just a taste of the
more commonly used.
Pronouns:
> I = watashi, watakushi
boku (common, informal)
> We = watashi tachi, wareware
> You (singular, familiar) = kimi
ore (informal)
omae (negative, often translated into
English as an explitive)
> You (singular, formal) = anata
> You (plural) = anatagata
> They = karera
There are a heck of a lot more pronouns than this. Each with a different
level of formality, and even gender bias.
I.E. a guy referring to himself and using the pronoun "atashi"
is...um...shall we say, rather "swishy" since it is reserved for girls.
And to make things a little harder to follow, Japanese don't use pronouns
nearly as often as we do in English. Often, a subject can be left out
entirely if it is obvious, and many other times, they choose to use the
person's name, rather than refer to them by a pronoun.
> Wife = Kanai, Tsuma
> Husband = Shujin, Otto
> Daughter = Musume
> Son = Musuko
> Mother = Haha, Okaasan
> Father = Chichi, Otousan
> Friend = Tomodachi
ER...some of these are rather confusing. To put it in perspective, there
are different levels of formality and association for all of the above.
I.E. there are completely different words for (my/your) (older/younger)
brother, plus a number of variations of each to denote formality. I.e.
you may want to use the most formal when you are trying to beg your older
brother to lend you his car for Friday night.
Numbers:
> zero = zero
rei
> one = ichi
> two = ni
> three = san
> four = yon
> five = go
> six = roku
> seven = nana
> eight = hachi
> nine = kyuu
> ten = juu
Counting to ten sometimes would sound like:
"Ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, shichi, hachi, kyuu, juu."
However, since "Shi" also means "death" it is often substituted in 4
and 7
with those listed above. Also, there is a formal numbering system based
less on Chinese and more on ancient Japanese that goes:
hitotsu
futatsu
mitsu
yotsu, etc.
Also, when counting things, numbers take on endings to refer to what is
being counted. Like futari is two people (esp. two people together,
*awwww*) while hitori refers to someone alone, and less romantically, you
may see go-nin (lit. five-people) walking down the street.
And even if you think you have the pronouns, nouns, numbers, and
honorifics right, you have to make sure your sentence structure and verb
endings match the rest of the sentence in tone, or at least carry with
them the intention that you want to convey.
Kind of how: "Can I borrow your car?" means the same thing as "Sir, would
you please loan me your car?" But one of them you'd probably say to your
friend, while you probably would use the other for your boss. And you
would rarely refer to his or the company car as "wheels."
> ------------
> Other useful things....
These were intersting, and like I mentioned earlier, you can see how
different phrases are said different ways by either males or females.
Typically it is a matter of formality, but there are also gender-specific
grammatical tricks. I would not suggest to anyone to try and
reverse-engineer Japanese grammar from any of these. Rather, if can't
possibly find a way around having someone say something in Japanese, or
any other language for that matter, find someone who has been studying the
language for a while or knows it fluently to help you out.
I.E. my character, Fang, is supposed to be from Hong Kong, so he has
learned to speak Cantonese like a native HK resident. I however, have
not. And since a) I haven't, b) don't know anyone who is learning
Cantonese, and c) know no native speakers, I decided to avoid actually
having him say anything in Cantonese, and even if he does, I give an
effective "subtitle" of the conversation, as would be seen by a
translation program.
> Hope that helps someone...
That remains to be seen. As a wise man once said: "A little knowledge is
a dangerous thing."
But yes, color can be nice.
--My two yen
Jeff
P.S. And I didn't even get started on phonetics yet....
Suffice to say "flied lice" jokesters can blow it out their respective
kazoos. Japanese phonetics use a sound that is made with the tongue
touching behind the teeth, in a voice version similar to an English "n"
tongue position. (As opposed to a French "n" which has the tongue bunched
up at the back of the mouth.) Not under or in front like the English "l"
or retracted to the soft palate like an English "r". Phonetically it is
half way in between l and r, and when attempting to translate foreign
words into Japanese phonetics, both l's and r's become their single
phonem. When a native Japanese speaker tries to learn English it is often
difficult to learn how to make the two separate and distinct sounds, and
sometimes, in older learners, it is even hard for them to learn to
differentiate between the two by ear since they never really had to
before. Similar things can be said for j/z and b/v confusion.
I could write much more on just this, but that's the biggie. Also, I'm
tired. G'night folks.
