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Message no. 1
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 00:27:30 +0200
Can I quit a run on an Objective before I meet the Objective
Requirements (i.e. fighting, etc.), but after the last Challenge? Or
must I face the Requirements after the last Challenge is gone?

Felix
Message no. 2
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 19:06:02 -0400
At 12:27 AM 5/11/98 +0200, Felix Hoefert wrote these timeless words:
>Can I quit a run on an Objective before I meet the Objective
>Requirements (i.e. fighting, etc.), but after the last Challenge? Or
>must I face the Requirements after the last Challenge is gone?
>
You have a "pause" after each challenge is defeated, sleazed, or whatever
in which you may decide to pull out, and during which time your opponent
may play stingers and such. This also applies to before you decide to
continue on to an Objective.

Bull
--
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Message no. 3
From: JD <germany@*****************.COM>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:49:46 -0600
>At 12:27 AM 5/11/98 +0200, Felix Hoefert wrote these timeless words:
>>Can I quit a run on an Objective before I meet the Objective
>>Requirements (i.e. fighting, etc.), but after the last Challenge? Or
>>must I face the Requirements after the last Challenge is gone?
>>
>You have a "pause" after each challenge is defeated, sleazed, or
whatever
>in which you may decide to pull out, and during which time your
opponent
>may play stingers and such. This also applies to before you decide to
>continue on to an Objective.
>
>Bull


This is how I have always played it, but when Underworld came out, there
was one objective that made me re-think it. Nosferatu Den (?) causes
the runner team to trash a runner as the requirement. Obviously, if the
team loses everyone except one runner, then that runner will "not
continue on" at that point. In this case, it seems like an abuse of the
rule. The keyword "requirement" also implies that there is no backing
out of this. It must be done.

I have also seen the rule abused by a player who completed all the
challenges on Ragnarock (Bonus: 2 nuyen for each rocker). He defeated
all the challenges and then chose not to complete the objective so he
could take it on the next turn with a group of Rockers. (The reason he
did not send the rockers the first time was that the challenge would
killl two of them -- Ambushed on Route.)

What does everyone else think of this? The rules state that after each
challenge the player can decide to continue or pull out, but does that
work for Objectives -- especially those with no combat requirements?

Jon Doud
germany@*****************.com
Message no. 4
From: Blade Hunter <bladehnt@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:03:06 -0400
On Mon, 11 May 1998, JD wrote:
> This is how I have always played it, but when Underworld came out, there
> was one objective that made me re-think it. Nosferatu Den (?) causes
> the runner team to trash a runner as the requirement. Obviously, if the
> team loses everyone except one runner, then that runner will "not
> continue on" at that point. In this case, it seems like an abuse of the
> rule. The keyword "requirement" also implies that there is no backing
> out of this. It must be done.

Nothing strange about the Nosferatu Den... you just wait for the running
player to announce that the team continues on to the objective, then you GAQ
the sacrificial runners back to the safehouse (conveniently leaving only one
runner to greet the nosferatu...)

> I have also seen the rule abused by a player who completed all the
> challenges on Ragnarock (Bonus: 2 nuyen for each rocker). He defeated
> all the challenges and then chose not to complete the objective so he
> could take it on the next turn with a group of Rockers. (The reason he
> did not send the rockers the first time was that the challenge would
> killl two of them -- Ambushed on Route.)

Not really an abuse of the rules. He's delaying himself a round for a little
extra nuyen and allowing you to respond during your turn to throw down more
challenges, set somebody up to block the rockers, or take the objective
yourself.

> What does everyone else think of this? The rules state that after each
> challenge the player can decide to continue or pull out, but does that
> work for Objectives -- especially those with no combat requirements?

That's how it works chummer...

-me.
bladehnt@*********.net
Message no. 5
From: "Bourgault, Patrick" <pbourgau@***.CA>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 11:03:00 PDT
>>At 12:27 AM 5/11/98 +0200, Felix Hoefert wrote these timeless words:
>>>Can I quit a run on an Objective before I meet the Objective
>>>Requirements (i.e. fighting, etc.), but after the last Challenge? Or
>>>must I face the Requirements after the last Challenge is gone?
>>>
>>You have a "pause" after each challenge is defeated, sleazed, or
>whatever
>>in which you may decide to pull out, and during which time your
>opponent
>>may play stingers and such. This also applies to before you decide to
>>continue on to an Objective.
>>
>>Bull
>
>
>This is how I have always played it, but when Underworld came out, there
>was one objective that made me re-think it. Nosferatu Den (?) causes
>the runner team to trash a runner as the requirement. Obviously, if the
>team loses everyone except one runner, then that runner will "not
>continue on" at that point. In this case, it seems like an abuse of the
>rule. The keyword "requirement" also implies that there is no backing
>out of this. It must be done.
>
>I have also seen the rule abused by a player who completed all the
>challenges on Ragnarock (Bonus: 2 nuyen for each rocker). He defeated
>all the challenges and then chose not to complete the objective so he
>could take it on the next turn with a group of Rockers. (The reason he
>did not send the rockers the first time was that the challenge would
>killl two of them -- Ambushed on Route.)
>
>What does everyone else think of this? The rules state that after each
>challenge the player can decide to continue or pull out, but does that
>work for Objectives -- especially those with no combat requirements?
>
>Jon Doud
>germany@*****************.com

Your right. It's easy to abuse the system that way. For the Nosferatu
Den, I can think of only one card, All of Nothing!. This way, even if
there is only one runner, he'll be dead.

As for this abused rule, I can think of only one other objective and it
is Dargon Hunt. The dragon comes and get you right after facing the
challenge (with a certain die role). And that means no break!
Message no. 6
From: M Breton <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 17:23:55 -0500
On 05/11/98 08:49:46 you wrote:

>I have also seen the rule abused by a player who completed all the
>challenges on Ragnarock (Bonus: 2 nuyen for each rocker). He defeated
>all the challenges and then chose not to complete the objective so he
>could take it on the next turn with a group of Rockers. (The reason he
>did not send the rockers the first time was that the challenge would
>killl two of them -- Ambushed on Route.)

Not yet cheesy enough. For serious "abuse", use Rapiers: then they don't have
to go on on the shadowrun at all, until the very end.

Since you probably won't net enough to cover the cost of the bikes, use Red Widow and Fort
Knocks. :)


- Matt
Message no. 7
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:28:23 -0400
>This is how I have always played it, but when Underworld came out, there
>was one objective that made me re-think it. Nosferatu Den (?) causes
>the runner team to trash a runner as the requirement. Obviously, if the
>team loses everyone except one runner, then that runner will "not
>continue on" at that point. In this case, it seems like an abuse of the
>rule. The keyword "requirement" also implies that there is no backing
>out of this. It must be done.


Right, must be done, if the running player wants to complete the run.
Remember GAQ's

>I have also seen the rule abused by a player who completed all the
>challenges on Ragnarock (Bonus: 2 nuyen for each rocker). He defeated
>all the challenges and then chose not to complete the objective so he
>could take it on the next turn with a group of Rockers. (The reason he
>did not send the rockers the first time was that the challenge would
>killl two of them -- Ambushed on Route.)


I think that to get the bonus they would have to take the objective. The
bonus is a result of earning the rep. You can't have one without the other.
Message no. 8
From: "James E. Frazer" <jimmicane@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 10:03:56 -0700
>Can I quit a run on an Objective before I meet the Objective
>Requirements (i.e. fighting, etc.), but after the last Challenge? Or
>must I face the Requirements after the last Challenge is gone?
>
> Felix
>
You always have a chance to pull out before you face the objective. The only exception to
this rule is teh Dragon Hunt on a roll of a 6.

I have a follow up question... Can you No Way Out! a person to force them to face an
Objective? No Way Out! says that the running team must face the next challenge, it
doesn't mention Objectives (unlike All or Nothing which specifically states that a running
team can no pull out of the run at any time).

Hurricane



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Message no. 9
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Abandoning an Objective
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 22:52:35 -0400
>I have a follow up question... Can you No Way Out! a person to force them
to face an Objective? No Way Out! says that the running team must face the
next challenge, it doesn't mention Objectives (unlike All or Nothing which
specifically states that a r
>nning team can no pull out of the run at any time).

No, you can't do this. No Way Out! specifically says challenge, which means
challenges, shalenges alone, and only challenges. This is important for more
than just No Way Out! Sleep, Invisibility, etc. would all be handy ways out
of Dragon Hunt, etc. if this worked. Even if you couldn't take the
objective, if this option were available, you could do strange things t an
All Or Nothing!

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