Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Apone <mpcheval@********.FR>
Subject:	A bunch of questions
Date:	Sun, 19 Apr 1998 06:32:48 +0200

Message no. 1 Here it is, the weekly set of questions which came up during the week end :

1) When two runners turn to swap gear, can way swap any amount of gear they own ?
Can they swap a turned piece of gear (as a Black Hammer for instance) ?

2) The Highway Showdown challenge says : "(...) each runner present takes 4
damage."
Let's picture that Roadrash is shadowrunning with an activated Hunter Drone and can't
sleaze the challenge.
Does only Roadrash get 4 damage ?
Does Roadrash and the Drone both get 4 damage ?
Can the owner of Roadrash divide the damage between the runner and his drone ?
(I don't really feel at ease with the use of drones).

3) If a mage fails to sleaze an awakened challenge with the Sleep spell,
can he still inflict damage with his threat rating ?
(I don't really feel at ease with the use of spells either).

4) The Ally Spirit can be trash to avoid all damage taken from one source.
If Wishbone holding an Ally meet an Incubus, can I trash the spirit instead
of having Wishbone trashed ?
I would say no because this is not real damage taken, but it was not the opinion of other
players.

5) On the Amazonian Hunt challenge, it is written : "No awakened challenge can be
sleazed".
Does it mean that gear like Stun gloves or Sleep Spell are useless against awakened
challenge
revealed on this objective ?
This would be scary...

Thanks for taking a look at these questions.

so long,

Apone.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You may bury my body down by the highway side,
So my old evil spirit can catch a Greyhound bus n'ride."
Robert Johnson
------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:	Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:12:58 -0500

Message no. 2 Keep in mind that these responces are just IMHO.

>1) When two runners turn to swap gear, can way swap any amount of gear they own ?
>Can they swap a turned piece of gear (as a Black Hammer for instance) ?

I'ld say that they could trap turned gear, but that the gear card would have
to remain turned.

>2) The Highway Showdown challenge says : "(...) each runner present takes 4
damage."
>Let's picture that Roadrash is shadowrunning with an activated Hunter Drone and can't
>sleaze the challenge.
>Does only Roadrash get 4 damage ?
>Does Roadrash and the Drone both get 4 damage ?
>Can the owner of Roadrash divide the damage between the runner and his drone ?
>(I don't really feel at ease with the use of drones).

Only Roadrash recieves the damage. Fasa has said that only Runners take
damage from riots, so I'ld imagine the same goes for Sabataged Controls,
The Big Hit and Highway Showdown. Keep in mind that drones/spirits don't
count as runners for minefield/widow's trap/pressure plates etc...

Basically the line about "treat drones like runners" in the rulebook
only means treat their Threat Rating like a Runners in combat.

>3) If a mage fails to sleaze an awakened challenge with the Sleep spell,
>can he still inflict damage with his threat rating ?
>(I don't really feel at ease with the use of spells either).

Yes they can. Sleep, unlike Stun Gloves is used before combat begins.

>4) The Ally Spirit can be trash to avoid all damage taken from one source.
>If Wishbone holding an Ally meet an Incubus, can I trash the spirit instead
>of having Wishbone trashed ?
>I would say no because this is not real damage taken, but it was not the opinion of
other players.

You would be correct.

>5) On the Amazonian Hunt challenge, it is written : "No awakened challenge can be
sleazed".
>Does it mean that gear like Stun gloves or Sleep Spell are useless against awakened
challenge
>revealed on this objective ?
>This would be scary...

Stun Gloves works during combat, and does not sleaze the challenge so
you still could use them. Sleep and Invisibility on the other hand
would not work...

--
Phil Jaros 888888888
chakan@************.com O=O=O=O=O
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \

From:	hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:46:57 +0800

Message no. 3 I don't know all the answers but I'll try....

>Here it is, the weekly set of questions which came up during the week end :
>
>1) When two runners turn to swap gear, can way swap any amount of gear they
own ?
>Can they swap a turned piece of gear (as a Black Hammer for instance) ?

If he can use the gear it can be moved to him(the runner) unless
specifically stated otherwise... (eg cyberware)

>
>2) The Highway Showdown challenge says : "(...) each runner present takes 4
damage."
>Let's picture that Roadrash is shadowrunning with an activated Hunter Drone
and can't
>sleaze the challenge.
>Does only Roadrash get 4 damage ?

Yes... Roadrash is a runner present...

>Does Roadrash and the Drone both get 4 damage ?

Yes... Roadrash is a runner present...
No... The drone is not a runner present.... Its a drone.....

>Can the owner of Roadrash divide the damage between the runner and his
drone ?
>(I don't really feel at ease with the use of drones).

No!!!! This is not combat damage....

>
>3) If a mage fails to sleaze an awakened challenge with the Sleep spell,
>can he still inflict damage with his threat rating ?
>(I don't really feel at ease with the use of spells either).

Yes... (I think so but correct me if I'm wrong)

>
>4) The Ally Spirit can be trash to avoid all damage taken from one source.
>If Wishbone holding an Ally meet an Incubus, can I trash the spirit instead
>of having Wishbone trashed ?
>I would say no because this is not real damage taken, but it was not the
opinion of other players.
>

No... You did not take any damage.... And trashing is not damage...

>5) On the Amazonian Hunt challenge, it is written : "No awakened challenge
can be sleazed".
>Does it mean that gear like Stun gloves or Sleep Spell are useless against
awakened challenge
>revealed on this objective ?
>This would be scary...
>

Sleep is useless... Card Text : (..... , target challenge is SLEAZED.)
Stun Gloves is not... Card Text : (..... , TRASH target challenge.)
Trash and sleaze mean 2 different things (although the effect is the
same....).

>Thanks for taking a look at these questions.
>
>so long,
>
> Apone.
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>"You may bury my body down by the highway side,
>So my old evil spirit can catch a Greyhound bus n'ride."
>Robert Johnson
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

From:	Tim <typhoeus@*********.NET>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Sun, 19 Apr 1998 10:09:13 -0700

Message no. 4 > >5) On the Amazonian Hunt challenge, it is written : "No awakened
challenge
> can be sleazed".
> >Does it mean that gear like Stun gloves or Sleep Spell are useless
against
> awakened challenge
> >revealed on this objective ?
> >This would be scary...
> >
>
> Sleep is useless... Card Text : (..... , target challenge is SLEAZED.)
> Stun Gloves is not... Card Text : (..... , TRASH target challenge.)
> Trash and sleaze mean 2 different things (although the effect is the
> same....).
In the next printing, aren't all special abilities from runners and spells
changing the word "sleaze" to "trash"? This was a response to the
confusion
brought about by the word "sleaze" on cards that were supposed to get rid
of challenges no matter if the alarm has sounded or not. I thought I saw
something to the effect and we are playing that way now. Correct me if I
was mistaken...

Tim

From:	Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:17:19 -0400

Message no. 5 >> Sleep is useless... Card Text : (..... , target challenge is SLEAZED.)
>> Stun Gloves is not... Card Text : (..... , TRASH target challenge.)
>> Trash and sleaze mean 2 different things (although the effect is the
>> same....).
>In the next printing, aren't all special abilities from runners and spells
>changing the word "sleaze" to "trash"? This was a response to the
confusion
>brought about by the word "sleaze" on cards that were supposed to get rid
>of challenges no matter if the alarm has sounded or not. I thought I saw
>something to the effect and we are playing that way now. Correct me if I
>was mistaken...

I was under the same impression, our group certainly plays that way. It
takes a lot of confusion from the matter, and makes Maglocks a lot less
powerfull.

From:	Sean Overton <shadowopal@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:19:14 -0500

Message no. 6 Hey there! I think your answers to the questions were well done...except
for the following:

On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:12:58 -0500 Phil Jaros
<chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM> writes:

>Only Roadrash recieves the damage. Fasa has said that only Runners
>take
>damage from riots, so I'ld imagine the same goes for Sabataged
>Controls,
>The Big Hit and Highway Showdown. Keep in mind that drones/spirits
>don't
>count as runners for minefield/widow's trap/pressure plates etc...
>
>Basically the line about "treat drones like runners" in the rulebook
>only means treat their Threat Rating like a Runners in combat.
>

Now, I am unsure as to who actually takes the damage. But, I don't think
one should relate a Special Card (Riots) to a Challenge Card (Highway
Showdown). Drones, when used, are usually only used during challenges.
Therefore I can see the point about the drones being able to take the
damage. I'm not trying to bash you. I just don't see the comparison.
And once again, I don't claim to be an authority on the subject. It just
dosen't relate to me. Anyone who wants to comment can either reply to
the list or me at Shodowopal@****.com.

-Sean Overton
(a.k.a Shadowopal, The Dread Pirate Wesley)
Private E-mail Address: Shadowopal@****.com
E-mail can be FREE with Juno!!!! Ask me how.

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From:	Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:29:03 -0400

Message no. 7 >Hey there! I think your answers to the questions were well done...except
>for the following:
>>Only Roadrash recieves the damage. Fasa has said that only Runners
>>take
>>damage from riots, so I'ld imagine the same goes for Sabataged
>>Controls,
>>The Big Hit and Highway Showdown. Keep in mind that drones/spirits
>>don't
>>count as runners for minefield/widow's trap/pressure plates etc...
>>Basically the line about "treat drones like runners" in the rulebook
>>only means treat their Threat Rating like a Runners in combat.
>
>Now, I am unsure as to who actually takes the damage. But, I don't think
>one should relate a Special Card (Riots) to a Challenge Card (Highway
>Showdown). Drones, when used, are usually only used during challenges.
>Therefore I can see the point about the drones being able to take the
>damage.

In the rule book it is not very clear about this, but the DLOH's at FASA
have been asked, and it was confirmed that drones could only be used for
damage acceptance during combat. This means that you can't hide in your
"Crawler" Patrol Drone while your car crashes on the side of the road.
Roadrash must take damage from challenges, specials, etc. unless involved in
combat.

From:	Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:46:02 -0500

Message no. 8 Sean wrote:
>
>>Only Roadrash recieves the damage. Fasa has said that only Runners
>>take damage from riots, so I'ld imagine the same goes for Sabataged
>>Controls, The Big Hit and Highway Showdown. Keep in mind that
>>drones/spirits don't count as runners for minefield/widow's
>>trap/pressure plates etc...
>>
>>Basically the line about "treat drones like runners" in the rulebook
>>only means treat their Threat Rating like a Runners in combat.
>
>Now, I am unsure as to who actually takes the damage. But, I don't think
>one should relate a Special Card (Riots) to a Challenge Card (Highway
>Showdown). Drones, when used, are usually only used during challenges.
>Therefore I can see the point about the drones being able to take the
>damage. I'm not trying to bash you. I just don't see the comparison.
>And once again, I don't claim to be an authority on the subject. It just
>dosen't relate to me. Anyone who wants to comment can either reply to
>the list or me at Shodowopal@****.com.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. Basically what I was trying to say was
that when a card makes reference to "each runner", "all runners" or
any
mention of the word runner it only effects Runner cards. FASA has stated
that Spirits/Drones should be treated like a Runner when it comes to
determining the damage they deal, take and their fatigue...

So cards that make reference to Runners, only deal damage to Runners.

--
Phil Jaros 888888888
chakan@************.com O=O=O=O=O
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \

From:	Joseph Nuth III <u1jan@******.GSFC.NASA.GOV>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:06:22 -0400

Message no. 9 >>Hey there! I think your answers to the questions were well done...except
>>for the following:
>>>Only Roadrash recieves the damage. Fasa has said that only Runners
>>>take
>>>damage from riots, so I'ld imagine the same goes for Sabataged
>>>Controls,
>>>The Big Hit and Highway Showdown. Keep in mind that drones/spirits
>>>don't
>>>count as runners for minefield/widow's trap/pressure plates etc...
>>>Basically the line about "treat drones like runners" in the rulebook
>>>only means treat their Threat Rating like a Runners in combat.
>>
>>Now, I am unsure as to who actually takes the damage. But, I don't think
>>one should relate a Special Card (Riots) to a Challenge Card (Highway
>>Showdown). Drones, when used, are usually only used during challenges.
>>Therefore I can see the point about the drones being able to take the
>>damage.
>
>In the rule book it is not very clear about this, but the DLOH's at FASA
>have been asked, and it was confirmed that drones could only be used for
>damage acceptance during combat. This means that you can't hide in your
>"Crawler" Patrol Drone while your car crashes on the side of the road.
>Roadrash must take damage from challenges, specials, etc. unless involved in
>combat.
>
In my opinion, if the drone were eligible to take damage, then both it AND
Roadrash would be damaged - since "all runners" take damage. Can't have it
both ways, either it was there and was damaged along with everyone else, or
it wasn't there and therefore can not take damage.

Dr. Joseph A. Nuth III
Head, Astrochemistry Branch
Code 691
NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
Greenbelt MD 20771

Phone: (301)286-9467 Fax: (301)286-1683

From:	Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:49:46 -0400

Message no. 10 >>In the rule book it is not very clear about this, but the DLOH's at FASA
>>have been asked, and it was confirmed that drones could only be used for
>>damage acceptance during combat. This means that you can't hide in your
>>"Crawler" Patrol Drone while your car crashes on the side of the road.
>>Roadrash must take damage from challenges, specials, etc. unless involved
in
>>combat.
>>
>In my opinion, if the drone were eligible to take damage, then both it AND
>Roadrash would be damaged - since "all runners" take damage. Can't have it
>both ways, either it was there and was damaged along with everyone else, or
>it wasn't there and therefore can not take damage.

Once again, it has been very clearly confirmed by the DLOH's that Drones are
treated as runners ONLY FOR THE PURPOSES OF COMBAT. During a combat with a
challenge, or other runners, the Rigger may use the threat rating of the
Drone in place of his own, although the rigger MAY ALSO take damage IF HE
WISHES. A RUNNER IS A RUNNER IS A RUNNER, A DRONE IS A DRONE IS A DRONE. The
only instance when the two terms are interchangable, is in combat.

From:	Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: A bunch of questions
Date:	Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:07:03 -0700

Message no. 11 ---Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM> wrote:
>
> >5) On the Amazonian Hunt challenge, it is written : "No awakened
challenge can be sleazed".
> >Does it mean that gear like Stun gloves or Sleep Spell are useless
against awakened challenge
> >revealed on this objective ?
> >This would be scary...
>
> Stun Gloves works during combat, and does not sleaze the challenge so
> you still could use them. Sleep and Invisibility on the other hand
> would not work...

Actually, the spells would work. Keep in mind that FASA has already
stated Objectives and other cards that state "Challenges may not be
sleazed" are referring to the skill sleaze requirement as listed in
the bottom corner of the card. Card text that allows sleazing/trashing
a Challenge (will be clearer in 2nd Run) override that affect.

Here's what we have in the SRCard Q&A:

Q1: Is there a difference between the skill requirement for sleazing a
challenge and alternate choices to "sleaze" as listed in the card text
(i.e. - Gut Check or Feeding Ghouls)? If not then a combination like a
triggered Motion Detectors (or a Red Alert) and then a Gut Check could
effectively form a dead lock with very few options to get past it.

A1: Once Motion Detectors and Red Alert are played, Challenges cannot
be sleazed. However, cards like Feeding Ghouls and Gut Check! are,
indeed, an exception to this. As you point out, not being able to get
past Gut Check! on a successful roll makes no sense (and we are
counting on people to use some common sense in such situations. We
don't want the game to become as convoluted as Magic can be.) Sleep
spell would also work against Objectives defended by Red Alert and
Motion Detectors.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98
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