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From:	Freak Finger <Freakfingr@***.COM>
Subject:	AmerInd expansion comments
Date:	Tue, 27 Oct 1998 01:54:52 EST

Message no. 1 >>>> AMAZONIAN RAIN FOREST / Challenge (Awakened)
If alarm has been triggered, place Amazonian Rain Forest in owner's safeho=
us;
otherwise, trash
Amazonian Rain Forest. At the beginning of each of owner's turns, control=
ler
may
roll D6:
1-2: Trash Amazonian Rain Forest.
3+: Treat target Location as a copy of Amazonian Rain Forest. Location's
owner
may turn a
Runner with Attack Rating greater than 3 to 'revert' Location back to n or=
mal.
"There *was* a trail there ... "<<<<
----------------------------------
" At the beginning of each of owner's turns, controller may
roll D6:"
This could be a little clearer. The owner is still the controller even wh=
en
the card is in opponents safehouse. He is still in control of targeting. S=
o
the wording gets a little confusing. Why not just "At the beginning of eac=
h of
owner's turns roll d6"
It might also be more interesting if there was a small chance that the
effect would spread to other players. That might also balance it a little.=
If
im reading it right you would also roll for each location that was changed=
so
this could quickly desimate all of your opponents locations.
Was it intended to negate the locations ability's or just give it a chan=
ce
to be destroyed?
------------------------
>>>>CRAZED DRONE / Challenge (Electric)
12/14 (A1). Unique. If shaowrunning team cannot defeat Crazed Drone, own=
er
may choose up
to four Runners in his safehouse to attack Crazed Drone. If they defeat
Crazed
Drone, he may
continue on shadowrun as if it were his turn.
Sleaze: Decking-2 OR Tech-2.<<<<<<<
----------------------------
If shadowrunning team cannot or does not defeat drone? Big diffrence. Do=
es
the team get a chance to just say "i can't do it" and pull out ,then the o=
wner
gets a shot?
Pretty tough bastard too. I like it but it might just be a little to much.
Frag it after it's defeated. Great idea. Might be a little to powerful but=
its
hard to tell without playtesting it. It might also be no powerful then the
Guardian Dracoform.
----------------------
>>>>>DZOO-NOO-QUA / Challenge (Awakened)
6/8 (A1). Roll D6 whenever spells are used against Dzoo-Noo-Qua. On a 5+=
,
cancel
the effect
of that spell. Runners damaged by Dzoo-Noo-Qua lose 1 Essence for each po=
int
of
damage
inflicted upon them.
Sleaze: Athletics-1, Stealth-1 OR Firearms-1,
Gunnery-1.<<<<<<<<<<
-----------------------
Automaticaly loseing 1 pt. of essence seems pretty steep. Maybe it shoul=
d
mimic Genetic Monstrocity. Roll for each runner damaged 4+ = -1 essence=
.
How does the essence loss effect magic user's. Seems a mage that loses
essence should lose some ability. The way it is it really just messes with
heavy cybered runners.
A suggestion..... Make it -1 essence tokens. Magic users take 1 pt. AP da=
mage
for every -1 essence token on them when they use a gear/magic card.
-----------------------
>>>>>SACRED DEER / Challenge (Outdoor/Awakened)
5/6. Runners with Virus tokens may not damage Sacred Deer.
Sleaze: Athletics-2 OR Stealth-2.
"They say forms can be seen in the mists of Mount Shasta -- whether they a=
re
deer,
or spirits, or
both, people will not say."<<<<<
---------------------------
It's a good idea but isn't it a little weak? Toughen up the sleaze
requirement a little. Maybe take out the OR in the sleaze requirment. Then=
you
have a challenge thats hard to sleaze but does little damage , is easy to =
kill
and has an ability that isn't very useful unless your playing a specialise=
d
deck. At least with a tougher sleaze requirment you might see it used outs=
ide
a virus deck.
-----------------------------
>>>>>>>SELF-DESTRUCTIVE NANOPHAGE / Challenge (Electrical)
Whenever a Self-Destructive Nanophage is revealed on a shadowrun, place a
Self-Destruction
token on the Objective it is defending. If an Objective has more than two
Self-Destruction
tokens on it, trash all Challenges defending it and frag that Objective.
When Self-Destructive Nanophages are trashed, they are fragged and their o=
wner
gains 1¥.
Sleaze: Decking-3.<<<<<
-----------------
All right now im nit picking but ......... If an Objective has more than t=
wo
Self-Destruction
tokens on it, trash all Challenges defending it and frag that Objective.
Then Self-Destructive Nanophages are fragged and their owner
gains 1¥.
Less words more clarity.
-------------------
>>>>>>SERVANTS OF THE WORM / Challenge (Awakened)
If Servants of the Worm are Reconned, trash them immediately.
When Servants of the Worm are revealed during a shadowrun, attach them to =
the
Objective it is
defending. (Once revealed, Servants of the Worm does not count toward the
maximum number
of Challenges.) When this Objective is scored, reduce the Reputation awa=
rd
by 5.
If Saeder-
Krupp is in play, it earns those points instead.<<<<<<<
------------------------
Trashing them after a recon is to much. It makes the card to weak. And w=
hen
it is used it dosn't do much. It's just as bad for the owner. You lose a
possible 5pts Rep, and maybe all if S-K is out, also. So make it a little =
more
useful. When trashed shuffle owners trash pile into your deck. You lose a
little something , you gain a little something and your opponent just lose=
s a
little something.
------------------------
>>>>>>>SNOWSHOE HARE / Challenge (Miscellaneous)
Beginning with the shadowrunning player and continuing clockwise, each pla=
yer
has the option of
revealing the top card of their Objective pile. Treat this as the actual
Objective
being pursued (in
terms of bonuses to Challenges, Reputation and Bonus, etc.).
"We followed the rabbit to a large hole in the ground ... "<<<<<
-----------------
This is a little confusing. Is the intention to have the option of
replaceing your Obj. with the one on the top of your Obj. stack? If so why=
not
just say so.
The way its worded ..................Your team is on a run. You flip ove=
r
this Obj. Each player has the option of picking up the top card on his Obj=
.
stack and use the new Obj.'s rules. But it says treat this as the Obj. bei=
ng
pursued. Well there is only one Obj. being pursued at that time. The run t=
hat
uncovered the challenge. So which of the revealed Obj.'s terms do you use?
All? Or are you just seitching to a new Obj. in the middle of a run? What
happens when i draw a Obj. that had requirments before the run started? Li=
ke
Courier Run. Who has the package? Urban Brawl. Where's the ball?
It's a fun idea but it needs some rewording to clarify how to use it.
----------------------------

Once again i say it's a great expansion. I just had a few ideas on how,=
in
my opinion, it could be better. I would really love to see these cards pla=
y
tested.
Freakfinger

From:	Matt Breton <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject:	Re: AmerInd expansion comments
Date:	Tue, 27 Oct 1998 06:06:31 -0600

Message no. 2 On 10/27/98 01:54:52 you wrote:
>
>>>>> AMAZONIAN RAIN FOREST / Challenge (Awakened)
>If alarm has been triggered, place Amazonian Rain Forest in owner's safehous;
>otherwise, trash Amazonian Rain Forest. At the beginning of each of owner's turns,
controller
>may roll D6:
>1-2: Trash Amazonian Rain Forest.
>3+: Treat target Location as a copy of Amazonian Rain Forest. Location's
>owner may turn a Runner with Attack Rating greater than 3 to 'revert' Location back to
n ormal.
>"There *was* a trail there ... "<<<<
>----------------------------------
> " At the beginning of each of owner's turns, controller may
>roll D6:"
> This could be a little clearer. The owner is still the controller even when
>the card is in opponents safehouse. He is still in control of targeting. So
>the wording gets a little confusing. Why not just "At the beginning of each of
>owner's turns roll d6"

Because if the Rain Forest grows over a Location, suddenly there's *two* controllers --
the original
owner (who has the actual Rain Forest Challenge card) and a second, who has a Location
that's been turned
into a copy. Each has a chance to roll during the beginning of his own turn.

> It might also be more interesting if there was a small chance that the
>effect would spread to other players. That might also balance it a little. If
>im reading it right you would also roll for each location that was changed so
>this could quickly desimate all of your opponents locations.

Well - no. An Amazonian Rain Forest can only trash itself (which is generically true
of any card that lists itself). So, if my Fuchi got overgrown, and I decide to try and
return the
favor and toss some weeds onto my opponent's Iron Lung, I run 1/3rd a chance of trashing
my
own Fuchi Forest, and 2/3 chance of sending ivy up the Lung.

2/3 chance may sound a little large, but realize that it does *nothing* to hinder the
shadowrun that it originally sprouted from. The effect is also fairly easy to undo,
although it means keeping a character occupied a little while. And, of course, the more
times I do it to an opponent, the more times he can do it back to me.

> Was it intended to negate the locations ability's or just give it a chance
>to be destroyed?

That's what "turns into a copy" means - and why you have to have a Runner hack
away with a
machete to 'revert' it.

>------------------------
>>>>>CRAZED DRONE / Challenge (Electric)
>12/14 (A1). Unique. If shaowrunning team cannot defeat Crazed Drone, owner
>may choose up to four Runners in his safehouse to attack Crazed Drone. If they defeat
>Crazed Drone, he may continue on shadowrun as if it were his turn.
>Sleaze: Decking-2 OR Tech-2.<<<<<<<
>----------------------------
> If shadowrunning team cannot or does not defeat drone? Big diffrence. Does
>the team get a chance to just say "i can't do it" and pull out ,then the
owner
>gets a shot?

Nothing on the card lets you pull out.

Damn, I missed that typo. Grr. Four *unturned* Runners in his safehouse, too. *Smacks
self*

>Pretty tough bastard too. I like it but it might just be a little to much.
>Frag it after it's defeated. Great idea. Might be a little to powerful but its
>hard to tell without playtesting it. It might also be no powerful then the
>Guardian Dracoform.

...So, playtest it. Take a common card (say, a Toxic Spirit) and mark it up. Print out
the AEX so your gaming friends know what this is about. I'd like to hear about the
results.

In all the times I've played with it, it hasn't seemed *that* tough of a card, since there
are few Objectives that benefit Electrical Challenges (though it's nasty on a Crossfire).
The difficulty I have with the card is that you can send four Runners up against it, but
might hit a bottleneck after trashing it (on an Objective like Solo Run).

>----------------------
>>>>>>DZOO-NOO-QUA / Challenge (Awakened)
>6/8 (A1). Roll D6 whenever spells are used against Dzoo-Noo-Qua. On a 5+,
>cancel the effect of that spell. Runners damaged by Dzoo-Noo-Qua lose 1 Essence for
each point
>of damage inflicted upon them.
>Sleaze: Athletics-1, Stealth-1 OR Firearms-1,
Gunnery-1.<<<<<<<<<<
>-----------------------
> Automaticaly loseing 1 pt. of essence seems pretty steep.

It really isn't, when you think about it. The shadowrunning player decides where the
damage (and hence the essence loss) goes; it makes him think twice about always tossing
damage on the big 6/8 Trolls, though. But -- if you hit a Runner with all the damage, and
he dies anyway - the Essence loss never comes into play. If, on the other hand, you're
not playing with Cyberware, it basically prevents you from tossing more than six damage at
each Runner. (Of course, the Essence loss *is* permanent, so over the course of a long
game these guys may prove pretty strong. Let's just say they make up for the Sacred
Deer.)

And the sleaze requirement is pretty easy, too.

> How does the essence loss effect magic user's.

It doesn't. Not quite perfectly true to the RPG; Mages are already hindered enough by the
no-spell clause (which is *very* true to the Dzo-Noo-Qua); no need to add a very wordy
effect that might never see play anyway.

>-----------------------------
>>>>>>>>SELF-DESTRUCTIVE NANOPHAGE / Challenge (Electrical)
>Whenever a Self-Destructive Nanophage is revealed on a shadowrun, place a
>Self-Destruction token on the Objective it is defending. If an Objective has more
than two
>Self-Destruction tokens on it, trash all Challenges defending it and frag that
Objective.
>When Self-Destructive Nanophages are trashed, they are fragged and their owner
>gains 1¥.
>Sleaze: Decking-3.<<<<<
>-----------------
>All right now im nit picking but ......... If an Objective has more than two
>Self-Destruction tokens on it, trash all Challenges defending it and frag that
Objective.
>Then Self-Destructive Nanophages are fragged and their owner gains 1¥.
> Less words more clarity.

And less function. You can pop 'phages from your hand to gain Nuyen. There are a *lot*
of cards that force a discard in AEX, too; here's a reason to think twice about it.

>-------------------
>>>>>>>SERVANTS OF THE WORM / Challenge (Awakened)
>If Servants of the Worm are Reconned, trash them immediately.
>When Servants of the Worm are revealed during a shadowrun, attach them to the
>Objective it is defending. (Once revealed, Servants of the Worm does not count toward
the
>maximum number of Challenges.) When this Objective is scored, reduce the Reputation
award
>by 5. If Saeder-Krupp is in play, it earns those points
instead.<<<<<<<
>------------------------
> Trashing them after a recon is to much. It makes the card to weak.

Not really. They make a good combo with Inticopa (never knew Lofwyr and Aztech were
intertwined, didja?) or Spectacle.

>And when it is used it dosn't do much. It's just as bad for the owner. You lose a
>possible 5pts Rep,

Well, no -- you'd sock this guy onto an Objective you didn't like much. Your opponent's
Summer of the Wolves, for instance. But, like the 'phages and the Amazonian Rain Forest,
they're not getting in the way of scoring that Objective. It's actually easier because of
them. (The difference might be a morphing Objective like Urban Brawl; but then, they're
not really Servants of the Worm, are they?)

>and maybe all if S-K is out, also.

This is always going to be the case, if you have Saeder-Krupp in play. (H'm - okay, I see
where the confusion lies. You're thinking SK gets *all* the Reputation when the run is
scored; I'm thinking it grabs the 'missing' 5 rep. I'll clarify.)

>So make it a little more useful. When trashed shuffle owners trash pile into your
deck. You lose a
>little something , you gain a little something and your opponent just loses a little
something.

Uhhh -- so I get all the cards in your trash pile? That seems horridly wrong.

>------------------------
>>>>>>>>SNOWSHOE HARE / Challenge (Miscellaneous)
>Beginning with the shadowrunning player and continuing clockwise, each player
>has the option of revealing the top card of their Objective pile. Treat this as the
actual
>Objective being pursued (in terms of bonuses to Challenges, Reputation and Bonus,
etc.).
>"We followed the rabbit to a large hole in the ground ...
"<<<<<
>-----------------
> This is a little confusing. Is the intention to have the option of
>replaceing your Obj. with the one on the top of your Obj. stack? If so why not
>just say so.

Because that's not the intention. Each player has the option of revealing the top
Objective; the 'old' Objective remains in play, though. (It should be clearer what
happens to the revealed Objectives -- whether they go back on top, shuffled back in, the
bottom of the Objective pile, or if they're fragged.)

> The way its worded ..................Your team is on a run. You flip over
>this Obj. Each player has the option of picking up the top card on his Obj.
>stack and use the new Obj.'s rules. But it says treat this as the Obj. being
>pursued. Well there is only one Obj. being pursued at that time. The run that
>uncovered the challenge. So which of the revealed Obj.'s terms do you use?
>All? Or are you just seitching to a new Obj. in the middle of a run?

Consider the Hare: his tracks lead you on a new route. The old path -- the old Objective
-- still exists; you can turn back at a later time and find that way again. But in the
midst of the chase, with his long loping bounds, he seems to have led you astray.

The Hare, by the way, is a Challenge, so I'm not sure where your confusion comes from.

>What happens when i draw a Obj. that had requirments before the run started? Like
>Courier Run. Who has the package? Urban Brawl. Where's the ball?

This has already been dealt with (in either the FAQ or the Unofficial Official Answeres
page). The Runner holding the package/ball is decided when the run against Courier Run/UB
starts, even if that's just before the Objective is revealed (Lofwyr's Schemes).

> Once again i say it's a great expansion. I just had a few ideas on how, in
>my opinion, it could be better. I would really love to see these cards play
>tested.

No problem -- thanks for all the comments!

- Matt

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