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Message no. 1
From: Freak Finger <Freakfingr@***.COM>
Subject: AmerInd Exp. Comments Obj.
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 21:23:14 EST
>>>>>>KIVA OF LIGHTNING / Objective
Reputation Award: 15. Unique.
Place a token on Kiva of Lightning when it is revealed. If Kiva of Lightn=
ing
begins
owner's
Legwork with a token on it, remove the token and place it face down.
At any time during a shadowrun against this Objective, players may place
Challenges on their
Challenge stack, and turn Runners to add them to the shadowrunning team (t=
o
the
maximum of
six members).
BONUS: If you have scored all four Kiva Objectives, you win the game.
[Dancing figures at a pow-wow, flashing lightning only partially revealing
their
ecstatic faces.]<<<<<<<<
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe you don't want to say anytime during a run challenges may be playe=
d.
Otherwise you might have some wiseguy dropping a challenge while your faci=
ng
one.
How bout during a run challenges may be played before a challenge is revea=
led.
And to clarify the max 6 runners you could say " turn runners to add to th=
e
shadowruning team (max. 6 runners may participate in the run) My first
impression was that you could keep adding runners after your runners were
trashed. So you could send 6 runners and when 1 crooked send in a re-
enforcement. Thats to powerful and i don't think thats what was intended.
-----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>Land of the long Sun
Reputation Award: 15.
BONUS: When this Objective is scored, all other Objectives are revealed (i=
f a
player
does not
have a ready Objective, turn over the top card of his Objective pile). Ea=
ch
player
may then
search his draw pile for one Challenge to play on each revealed
Objective.<<<<<<
------------------------------
Maybe add "up to the max. Challenges allowed" at the end there.
------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>SUMMER OF THE WOLVES / Objective
Reputation Award: 40. Owner must choose a type of Challenge (Awakened,
Electrical, etc.)
when Summer of the Wolves is revealed. This type of Challenge may not be
sleazed.
REQUIREMENT: Face down Howling Wolf Pack: 6/8 (2¥: +1/+1 until the end o=
f
shadowrun).
<<<<<<<<<<<<
----------------------------
Clarify the requirment. Instead of "Face down" say defeat and who can =
pump
the 2¥ ? Anyone or just the owner?
------------------------------
>>>>>>>>THE PASSING OF WINTER / Objective
Reputation Award: 30.
Treat all Runners on shadowrunning team as if they only had the basic leve=
l in
each
of their Skills..........<<<<<<<<<
----------------
Say 1 skill level in each of there skills instead of basic. Tiz a little
easier to understand.


Just a few recomondations i had. I like what i have seen on the set =
so
far. Although i have only seen the obj.
If my recomondations are welcome i might make some more on the rest, bu=
t we
shall have to see.
Freakfinger
Message no. 2
From: Matt Breton <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: AmerInd Exp. Comments Obj.
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 16:45:37 -0600
On 10/25/98 21:23:14 you wrote:

>>>>>>>KIVA OF LIGHTNING / Objective
>---------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe you don't want to say anytime during a run challenges may be played.
>Otherwise you might have some wiseguy dropping a challenge while your facing
>one.

To which the answer would be ... so? The newly-played Challenge goes face-down
on top of the Challenge stack; it's not like it pops up in combat.

>How bout during a run challenges may be played before a challenge is revealed.

Equally murky: Could I add a Challenge after the first Challenge was revealed and
defeated? (That Challenge, after, was revealed; it's now "after a Challenge has been
revealed...")

Now, there *is* a (possibly) clearer wording -- between Challenges, you may add Runners
or Challenges; however, it was my intention with this card that it would help alleviate
some
of the (many) discard effects in AEX. So, if I had a handful of Challenges, and slammed
into
a Quetzlcouatl, I could do something with those cards besides trash them.

>And to clarify the max 6 runners you could say " turn runners to add to the
>shadowruning team (max. 6 runners may participate in the run) My first
>impression was that you could keep adding runners after your runners were
>trashed. So you could send 6 runners and when 1 crooked send in a re-
>enforcement. Thats to powerful and i don't think thats what was intended.

That, actually, was the original intention behind Red Widow and the Rapier. And it
*is* a powerful effect -- but the Objective's only worth 15 Rep, and may not be there for
the taking when you're finally ready for it. And since you may be running through seven
or eight Challenges in a row, you may end up needing all those Runners, too.

The maximum number of Runners may vary from time to time (one of my many net.cards is a
special
that limits the number of Runners you can send on a run; Gabe has a similar card). So
listing a
specific number of Runners may be misleading.

>-----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>Land of the long Sun
>Reputation Award: 15.
>BONUS: When this Objective is scored, all other Objectives are revealed (if a
>player does not have a ready Objective, turn over the top card of his Objective pile).
Each
>player may then search his draw pile for one Challenge to play on each revealed
>Objective.<<<<<<
>------------------------------
> Maybe add "up to the max. Challenges allowed" at the end there.

Already hit on this, believe it or not.

>------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SUMMER OF THE WOLVES / Objective
>Reputation Award: 40. Owner must choose a type of Challenge (Awakened,
>Electrical, etc.) when Summer of the Wolves is revealed. This type of Challenge may
not be
>sleazed.
> REQUIREMENT: Face down Howling Wolf Pack: 6/8 (2¥: +1/+1 until the end of
>shadowrun).
><<<<<<<<<<<<
>----------------------------
> Clarify the requirment. Instead of "Face down" say defeat and who can
pump
>the 2¥ ? Anyone or just the owner?

Same as any Challenge: just the owner. (You can't pump my Security Mage; why should you
be able to pump my Wolves?)

>------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>THE PASSING OF WINTER / Objective
>Reputation Award: 30.
>Treat all Runners on shadowrunning team as if they only had the basic level in
>each of their Skills..........<<<<<<<<<
>----------------
> Say 1 skill level in each of there skills instead of basic. Tiz a little
>easier to understand.

The RBT lists 'basic level' as being equal to Skill-1; and 'enhanced' for anything over
one (but generally meaning 2). No, the terms aren't used often; part of the joys of
expansions is to bring the underused facets of the game back into the light, let them
shine.

>
> Just a few recomondations i had. I like what i have seen on the set so
>far. Although i have only seen the obj.

I mentioned it in another post: I should have an alphabetized list on my site by tomorrow
morning. I'll post the URL when it's ready.


- Matt
Message no. 3
From: Freak Finger <Freakfingr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: AmerInd Exp. Comments Obj.
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 21:58:30 EST
In a message dated 10/26/98 2:46:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM writes:

<< ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SUMMER OF THE WOLVES / Objective
>Reputation Award: 40. Owner must choose a type of Challenge (Awakened,
>Electrical, etc.) when Summer of the Wolves is revealed. This type of
Challenge may not be
>sleazed.
> REQUIREMENT: Face down Howling Wolf Pack: 6/8 (2¥: +1/+1 until the en=
d of
>shadowrun).
><<<<<<<<<<<<
>----------------------------
> Clarify the requirment. Instead of "Face down" say defeat and who ca=
n
pump
>the 2¥ ? Anyone or just the owner?

Same as any Challenge: just the owner. (You can't pump my Security Mage;=
why
should you
be able to pump my Wolves?) >>
---------------------------------------------
Rep of 40 seems a little unfair to me. The owner has all the advantages =
on
this one.
He gets to chose the challenge type that can't be sleazed and he controls =
the
size of the wolf pack at the end of the run. You should be able to make yo=
ur
obj. benifit you but this is rediculous. Every advantage is the owners. He=
can
easly make the obj. extreamly difficult for all opponents and then make it=
all
to easy for himself to walk away with 40 rep. Sure the challenge that can'=
t be
sleazed will effect him too, even though he will be better prepared to uti=
lise
that ability. Thats great, fair and how the game works. But being able to =
pump
the wolves at the end (vaguely dirty) as many times as hes got the dough =
and
not haveing to face that kinda difficulty himself is unbalanced especially=
for
40 rep. For 40 rep. it should be a very difficult obj. for all players.
Freakfinger
Message no. 4
From: Matt Breton <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: AmerInd Exp. Comments Obj.
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 21:06:01 -0600
On 10/26/98 21:58:30 you wrote:

><< ------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>SUMMER OF THE WOLVES /
Objective
> >Reputation Award: 40. Owner must choose a type of Challenge (Awakened,
> >Electrical, etc.) when Summer of the Wolves is revealed. This type of
>Challenge may not be
> >sleazed.
> > REQUIREMENT: Face down Howling Wolf Pack: 6/8 (2¥: +1/+1 until the end of
> >shadowrun).
> ><<<<<<<<<<<<
> >----------------------------
> > Clarify the requirment. Instead of "Face down" say defeat and who
can
>pump
> >the 2¥ ? Anyone or just the owner?
>
> Same as any Challenge: just the owner. (You can't pump my Security Mage; why
>should you
> be able to pump my Wolves?) >>
>---------------------------------------------
> Rep of 40 seems a little unfair to me. The owner has all the advantages on
>this one.

That's usually the case with Objectives. There are decks built around using
No-Outdoor Objectives, meaning a deck that relies on Challenges like The Big
Chase! and Highway Showdown is SOL playing against that deck; similarly,
morphing decks take advantage of clearing out the hard-to-sleaze runstoppers
that most Troll decks fear.

But let's deal with these one at a time...

>He gets to chose the challenge type that can't be sleazed

Yup - and most decks will be thoroughly tuned to take advantage of this. This
I see as the worrisome half -- not the Wolf Pack. However, it's only through a lot
of gameplay that I've discovered how not-terribly-consequential this advantage
is -- after all, most decks work hard to make the first Challenge unsleazable
anyway, and, with the alarm triggered, none of the other Challenges would be
sleazable anyways.

However, it does add some advantage to using the high-Threat, low-sleaze
Challenges that sometimes get overlooked (Steppin' Wulfs, for instance).

And if you look at Challenges by 'breed' -- Electrical, Awakened, and so on --
you;ll see that playing a single type (to take the 'best' advantage of SotW)
forces you to use Challenges that may not normally fit into your deck. In a
way, it encourages versatility.

>and he controls the size of the wolf pack at the end of the run.

Yeah - but it's difficult to make a 6/8 amount to much. Seriously.

However, I've thought of a few ways to randomly determine the strength of
the Objective requirement, so I may implement one of those methods instead.

>For 40 rep. it should be a very difficult obj. for all players.

And it is difficult for the Objective owner -- just not in terms of going on
shadowruns -- more in terms of deck-building. Yes, when I write expansions,
I like getting into *all* the aspects of the game.


- Matt

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