| From: | Donald Arganbright <jayden63@*******.COM> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Amerindian Objectives and Challenges - a positive critique |
| Date: | Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:08:05 PST |
>Aside: I highly suggest that the list begin discussing these. Face
>it, we can't wait on Corp War. Let's move on to the Amerindian
>Expansion, and when Corp War (which I have heard is excellent) is
>released, we can all move back to the official world at that point >if
we want.
> -----------------
>Amerindian Objectives and Challenges - a positive critique and review
>
>Overall impression: Get ready for some tough runs! Get ready to take
>advantage of these cards before your opponent does! Get ready to >use
some cards from Underworld that were almost cool, and now become >a
serious advantage!
Yes, no, maybe so. Unfortunatly I almost never play a straight "this
type of runner deck". I have found that there are some cards that are
just too damn valuable and they end up in every deck. That being said I
have found that a combination of AEX cards with prexisting cards kick
major booty than just going straight AEX.
>Objectives:
>
>The objectives are clever, adding new angles to the game, and even >if
Matb's wish for adding completely new options for rep and nuyen
>athering didn't come to fruition, these cards are a step in the >right
direction.
Agreed, I do like the way they work.
>One thing is for sure, a lot of the objectives and challenges are
>great for virus decks! Take the first Objective, ACROSS THE >TUNDRA.
The -1/-1 is just what runners don't need when they are >targeted with
virus tokens! It is also the type of Objective you >can use when you
have stamina or a well balanced team. Conversely, >ACROSS THE TUNDRA is
a good way to return an opponent's runner to >the safehouse, and in a
deck with a lot of "go home" challenges and >stingers (GAQ, Nets, et
al), this can be the Objective that break's >the runners' backs, so to
speak.
I really haven't focused on viruses in my game playing, so I really
don't know about them
>I am not sure about AUTUMN TWILIGHT. Does the shadowrunning player
>get the option of running on her own challenges in addition to the
>other player's? If so, when? I think it should read "If the
>shadowrunning player has Challenges on her Challenge stack, she may
>choose to face her own Challenges after defeating any other present
>Challenges. If she does so, and scores the Objective, she receives >an
additional +10 Reputation."
I like this card. It combines some deck strat and for using some of the
lesser buff challenges. It would give new life to reitna scanner and
some of the cheesyer challenges that never really make it into any deck,
becuase they just arn't powerfull enough.
>DIGITAL DOMAIN is a must with Renraku, and with some of the cards I
>have in my net expansions, not yet released. It is a cool addition >to
a decker theme, but I would make the challenge even more friendly >by
saying one of the following: A) All challenges have an additional
>challenge requirement of Decking-1, OR B) All challenges may be
>sleazed by Decking-5 instead of the stated sleaze requirement.
I like concept A alot better than concept B. It really isn't all that
hard for a fuchi-decker deck to get 5 decking and then go running on
this objective with a garenteed win. of the objective... seems abusive.
>HAUNTED HUNTING GROUNDS is a great concept, and a good card for any
>deck with a lot of Awakened challenges (and hence great with many of
>the Challenges in the Amerindian Expansion). It is also promotes, >as
do many other cards in this set, that you increase the number of
>challenge cards in your deck, which then would give you a sizeable
>advantage over your opponent. In fact, you can now build a deck >with
these types of cards and many challenges, and just pummel your
>opponents with resistance.
The thing I like about this, it sort of forces your opponent to spend a
run against Haunted Hunting Grounds if only to get 1 or 2 of the
challenges gone so, you don't get the bonus. It makes them waist a run.
Unfortunatly it is a gamle on your part. If your busy filling up your
objective, you probably have left his a little vunlerable, and easy for
the taking.
>KIVAs. Hmmm... I'll begin by saying, Matb, I like the ideas A LOT.
>However, I don't see how in Saeder-Krupp's name a player is supposed
>to win 4 Unique objectives before another player beat's her. All >the
opponent has to do is take one of the Kiva's, and the whole deck
>concept around Objectives is fragged.
This is one of the major draw backs that I have seen. And it can be
nasty.
Okay, maybe you can build a Kiva deck that doesn't have to win all the
Kiva's, but the Kiva's are so low Rep, and the bonuses so different,
that I would never choose all 4 to put in my deck unless I could really
think could win them all.
I sort of agree with you here. The low rep hurts and helps. If it was
me I would keep the low rep and then back it up with a media chick or
two. Btw... 6 spare nuyen media chick and cake walk make a wonderful 70
point... not all that touch shadowrun.
>Even without doing this, in most games I do not see one player use
>more than 4 objectives, and you have to have 6 in the pile!). So,
>here is what I would do. Add the following: Reputation: 15 +X. "X >=
10 points for every previous Kiva the player has completed." >Another
possible change would be to make the Objectives less >friendly to other
players.
I think that they are unfriendly enough as is, but I do like the rep
bonus addition.
>OPERATION COPPERHEAD is a gift to mercenaries, which is cool.
>However, would suggest making it a little more interesting, like >maybe
having the bonus read: "2¥ for each Mercenary present at end >of
Shadowrun. +1¥ if that Mercenary carries gear. "
3 operation copperhead and 3 operation cottonmouth with a bunch of
awakened or street or personell challenges can really make an opponent
frown. I like it :)
>SOLO RUN is interesting. If you have a deck with runners that can >be
built up nicely with Gear, this can be a quick way to get some >rep.
True... but beware of the ever present booby trap or widows trap...
Kinda suck don't ya think.
>But it really presents an advantage if you have recon! In fact, >this
is one Objective that can really work with Riggers! Use several
>riggers, and have skillsofts on The Brain. Then place The Brain on
>the Rigger that, together with the skillsofts, can sleaze SOLO RUN.
>Yes, a lot to do for 5 rep (Brain, skillsofts, decker, rigger), but >it
can be part of the overall strategy.
Beware of whoops... (A highly underrated card in my opinion. By-by all
drones, spirits, miniguns, and autocannons :)
>Conversely, SPRING THAW is a great Objective to use when you don't
>have recon and your opponents typically do.
This one made me smile... I really liked it. Its just one of those fun
objectives that I would throw in if I wanted to just be an annoying
player...
>
>SUMMER OF THE WOLVES was discussed on the list a few weeks back. I
>agree that it overwhelmingly benefits the owner, and the rep might >be
better if it were 30, and the following line were added: "Bonus: >+5 Rep
if shadowrunning player is not the owner of this Objective." >Here's
another way to balance the card: leave the 40 rep, but >require the
owner to roll D6 to determine if the type that can not >be sleazed is
Awakened, Outdoor, or Owner's Choice.
I think it works fine the way ti is. You know what are in your
challenge stack and so you would look for those. Fortuantly most
challenges have gear that can trash them, and don't have to worry about
being sleazed. Invis, sleep, steamroller, foxy roxy.
>VISION QUEST is a must-have for all Mage/Shaman decks. Very cool, >and
much needed.
Agreed. This would definantly help out my shaman deck.
>Challenges:
>Overall, the challenges are very tough! Unlike Underworld, this
>expansion is full of challenges that you immediately want to put in
>your decks. The ratings are tough, the special effects are tough, >and
quite often you have both combined! Virus decks will again >become more
prevalent, which is good seeing how cool a concept they >were.
You noticed that too :)
>The Amerindian challenges themselves offer new ways to take down
>runners and to weaken troublesome runners. AMAHUECO INDIANS allows >you
to put a twist on Haloweener Hell. While not as obscenely >damaging
(you reduce the 6/6 for every token you choose) you can >make it just as
useful by taking out the runners you really want to >see go down.
Great way to do the damage without a tactics:converge. I really like
it.
>JIVARO INDIANS is similar, but limits Biotech, which makes it only
>useful against specialized decks. SIOUX WILDCATS is a more general
>challenge, but fits the theme nicely, and is a great card to hold in
>reserve and place as the top challenge. TIPARILLA INDIANS is really
>cool! A perfect blend of punishment and having a way out. Quite
>scary to those Underworld-heavy decks, who would have neither! >SACRED
DEER is another one that is good for Virus tokens. Now, if >we just had
some more virus-generating cards...
>The virus cards are comming... but in general I liked all of the AEX
>challenges... a new breath. But Some, with the right combo could
>easily tear out torgo and his 4 stompers.
>AMAZONIAN RAIN FOREST received some complaints on the list, but I >like
it just the way it is. Essentially, it forces you to turn a >runner to
stop it's effects, and in most cases will not cause much >damage.
I like it becuase it is another way of tying up runners. Always
usefull.
>AZTLAN MILITIA is one I wish I had come up with. The only thing
>I would change is that a rare or Unique version could add "For every
>two runners trashed this way, owner may roll once on Aztechnology."
>That would be too cool, and go a long way for Aztlan decks. Maybe
>that can inspire you for another card, Matb? Others?
Thats cool of an idea, but if you have never seen Aztechnology you might
not know what its talking about. I would just put the Aztech card text
onto the challenge.
>CORNERED is nice, one of a few cards in the expansion that expands
>Runner Vs. Runner combat, which even though popular in Wanted and
Z->Zone, sees less use than it should. In fact, if enough R vs. R took
>place, you could make easier challenges and still have a tough >game!
(Rebuilding slows down the game
I like the advantage that more runner vs. runner combat gives you. I
think there needs to be more of it enables you to take out those runners
who never go anywhere like ICE Qeen jade.
>LOUP-GAROU is cool, like what might happen if Time-Delayed Bomb and
>Yakuza Assassin had a baby! One problem: What if several runners >leave
(like with Fuchi)?
I would think that they all get to attack it.
>One possible alteration to the card would be "Owner may attack
Loup->Garou with indirect fire", which might make indirect fire more
used >in the game. (I think it is grossly underused).
Cool idea... I really don't know how you would word it though.
>I love DOPPELGÅNGER for it's no-way-out policy. It's not like >Widow,
where you can choose to escape the effect. DZOO-NOO-QUA is >even
better, and is lethal on cybered individuals (and it's about >time,
there aren't enough non-specialized cards that target these >folk!
Finally, a way to kill Skwraaa[snip]rk!). One question: What >happens
to mages/shamen?
Unfortunatly nothing at this time. It would be interesting to see what
could happen in the future. Or more ways of exploting this aspect.
>I am not too crazy about HURRICANE FENCING, but I do have a >question:
is it encountered after or before the Objective >requirements, or at the
same time?
My problem with this card is why would you ever play it as a challenge
and then risk having it trashed by something. I would almost always
attach it to the objective right away. Or am I reading this wronge?
>Maybe I just love trashing cards and screwing your friends, but what
>if we changed PALE MOON SOCIETY so that ANY player could trash a >card
to turn off OR on the alarm? I can just see a game of 4 where >8 cards
get trashed before it ends up that the alarm is on after >all!
Thats a cool idea.
>Want to increase the stakes? Change the text to read:
>"PALE MOON SOCIETY / Challenge (Street)
>7/7 (A1). Any player may trash one card from their hand for each
>Runner on the shadowrunning team to either trigger the alarm or
>prevent the alarm from being triggered. Once all players are done, >the
effect takes place PRIOR to combat with Pale Moon Society.
>Sleaze: Athletics-1, Firearms-1, Melee-1." This means the Society
>could not be sleazed either!
Ouch on a running team of 6 thats alot of card to be holding in your
hand. Just to dump.
>Okay, why is there no flavor text on 95% of the cards? I mean, PIT
>TRAP? It's dying for some flavor text? Is this Matb's prime flaw?
>Can he not write flavor text? <big grin> Maybe listmembers can
>suggest some? I love flavor text.
Flavor text is one of the more intesting parts about the cards
themselves... but common its hard to come up with text for 100 odd
cards...
>We all have things we give thanks for. I give thanks that
>QUETZLCOUATL is Unique! Cool card!
Amen
>IMHO, RIOT SQUAD is way too powerful. 2 yen should not add 6/6 (A1)
>to Riot Squad. Even if we are looking at a 50% chance (which is >what
I would guess), I would change that to 4 Yen.
It has the potential to be too powerful. But in a multiplayer game, the
chances of having the back up are not all that high. With less cards
you can stack, it is harder to be sure that the following card has a
threat rating.
>I like the idea behind SELF-DESTRUCTIVE NANOPHAGE.
Haven't seen it used.
>SERVANTS OF THE WORM is quite single-minded in purpose, but the
>Fuchi/Saeder-Krupp decks will love this one and make our lives even
>more miserable. Plus, since they will have deckers, they can use
>attack programs on our "throw one in for the recon" deckers!
I love the name... not too sure on the card. Its just one of those...
>Gotta love a SNOW MOOSE on one of the Operation objectives! 10/10
>(A2)!
Can be nasty... or a great back up to Riot Squad.
>Matb does a great job, as I said before, in finishing (or at least
>making functional) what Underworld started. SOCIAL ACTIVISTS is such >a
card, making the negative rep more of a factor and possibility. >You
can't quite make a negative deck rep... yet, but we're darn >close. One
more or two more cards, and we are all the way there.
I think it would be cool if you could win with negitive rep. You are
soo bad that everyone is afraid of you. Or special things happen when
you get to -20 rep. I have no idea what they would be at this time...
but its something to think about.
>I thought SPOTTED SKUNK was okay. I like this one better:
>Horned Skunk / Challenge (Awakened/Outdoor) [Uncommon]
>4/4 (A1). Sleaze: Stealth-3 or Athletics-2.
>After combat, place skunk token on each present runner.
>A Runner with a skunk token can not assist team in sleazing
>challenges. A healed runner may turn to remove skunk tokens.
>Flavor: "Pee-ew! Where have you been!"
I like them both :)
*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***
Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright
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