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Message no. 1
From: "(Ryan Smith)" <SnakeIzBac@***.COM>
Subject: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 1998 19:25:49 EDT
I want to use an analogy here guys.

I'm the Chicago Bulls right. I've dominated the NBA Championship for the
1990's. They've torn your team apart everytime you've played them. You're
pretty pissed and you want to do something to *Beat* them. You've tried
everything, and you'll do anything to match their strength. Do you decide to
whine about it? Did they ever complain that it wasn't *Fun*. In one aspect
losing isn't really fun, but there is something that always motivates me to
come back even stronger. Never did a team whine about losing. This is the
point I'm trying to make. Put yourself in the other teams shoes. You'll try
everything to win. Just like the Utah Jazz did.
. (I know some of you may not follow sports. In that case i will just say the
Bulls have been the dominate team in the 90's)

Back to my point. Use this analogy towards shadowrun. You should look foward
to beating the living S@%$! out of your friend that has been pounding you for
the last few days. Just think, you have a brand new deck ready to pound on
him and get some fun back. This is the way it's been working for me and my
friend. I have fun all of the time. It's great. Maybe you people should
look at it from this point of view. Don't whine about it, contend with it.
There is only one game where i can think of where you'll get pounded time in
and time out. That's magic. But that's a whole different argument.


Just trying to give you guys a new prespective about decks. Don't be afraid
to give it a whirl.
Message no. 2
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 01:52:22 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-27 19:27:04 EDT, you write:

> Back to my point. Use this analogy towards shadowrun. You should look
> foward
> to beating the living S@%$! out of your friend that has been pounding you
> for
> the last few days. Just think, you have a brand new deck ready to pound on
> him and get some fun back. This is the way it's been working for me and my
> friend. I have fun all of the time. It's great. Maybe you people should
> look at it from this point of view. Don't whine about it, contend with it.
> There is only one game where i can think of where you'll get pounded time
in
> and time out. That's magic. But that's a whole different argument.
>
>
> Just trying to give you guys a new prespective about decks. Don't be
afraid
> to give it a whirl.

yes... Magic.. good point you got. a friend of mine quit Magic because of a
turn-one-kill unbeatable deck. I'm glad shadowrun's a much more fun-oriented
game.

However, some of us are very competitive, and it's not easy to get bashed all
the time without getting upset. What was it? Deck doesn't make the player,
player makes the deck? well, the player who spends more money will have a
definite edge in deck making. I don't care how good you are, you're not going
to win with an all-commons deck against a bruiser or other powerful deck full
of rares.

Anyway, one thing I don't want shadowrun to become is everyone playing bunch
of unoriginal decks like Magic and its dojo. A tournament with 100 people
playing 5 or 6 different decks. It's the most absurd and boring thing.
Hopefully, shadowrun won't fall into such drudgery.

jc
Message no. 3
From: Mo'ike Manawa <ManawaWolf@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 02:00:53 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-28 01:53:45 EDT, YuHyunCho wrote:

<< Anyway, one thing I don't want shadowrun to become is everyone playing
bunch
of unoriginal decks like Magic and its dojo. A tournament with 100 people
playing 5 or 6 different decks. It's the most absurd and boring thing.
Hopefully, shadowrun won't fall into such drudgery. >>

Well since others have come clean about playing Magic, I will make my comments
on the other game that I play, Overpower. This is a game where the
tournaments are all the same. I know that a lot of you were at GenCon as
well, but I am not sure how many saw the Overpower tournament. As I walked
between the tables I only saw two decks, no matter where I went! There is any
combination of decks that can be made, but instead everyone chooses to play
two cheese decks. Hopefully people will not only not try to make those
unoriginal decks, but will also have the gumpshin enough to fall prey to them.
Message no. 4
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 04:15:08 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-28 01:53:43 EDT, you write:

<< What was it? Deck doesn't make the player,
player makes the deck? well, the player who spends more money will have a
definite edge in deck making. I don't care how good you are, you're not
going
to win with an all-commons deck against a bruiser or other powerful deck full
of rares. >>

buying all the cards in the world doesn't make up for poor deck
building.....and a poor deck builder doesn't know how to totally utilize his
or her cards...and that is sad...and i may be wrong...or maybe im right..i
just go by what i see.


brak da yak
Message no. 5
From: Leif Johnson <Paladine@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 07:19:48 -0500
about the "unbeatable" magic deck

ugh..i can't believe i'm even gonna start this argument....but there is
no such thing!! no deck is unbeatable!! ever! thats one of the strongest
points for magic

Leif
Message no. 6
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 11:59:01 EDT
In a message dated 8/28/98 4:16:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Brakiss187@***.COM writes:

> buying all the cards in the world doesn't make up for poor deck
> building.....and a poor deck builder doesn't know how to totally utilize
his
> or her cards...and that is sad...and i may be wrong...or maybe im right..i
> just go by what i see.
>
>
> brak da yak

Well, I just remember playing against a beginner who was using my deck, and I
used his deck. I got totally trashed, needless to say. An extreme example,
perhaps. But let's look at it this way. Say there's 2 people trying to make
a good deck. They're about the same in skills. Who will be able to make the
better deck will be somewhat dependent on who has the better cards. the one
who has more and better cards has an advantage. It's not like magic where the
person with better cards is completely dominant. But the person with better
cards has a definite edge.

jc
Message no. 7
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:05:44 EDT
In a message dated 8/28/98 8:20:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Paladine@*****.NET writes:

> about the "unbeatable" magic deck
>
> ugh..i can't believe i'm even gonna start this argument....but there is
> no such thing!! no deck is unbeatable!! ever! thats one of the strongest
> points for magic
>
> Leif

*shrug* how do you know there is no such thing? Have you gone around the
world and seen every single deck there is? and are you talking about T1 or
T2?

jc
Message no. 8
From: Leif Johnson <Paladine@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 13:56:00 -0500
"bout unbeatable magic decks

it doesn't matter what type...i play with friends who have played for
years and with other people from the gathering grounds...world ranked
players playing in the worlds largest magic dealer...i think i have some
idea whats going on...and usually the best decks are the most played, so
yes i've seen them, and done of them are unbeatable...

Leif
Message no. 9
From: Noah Overton <NOAH_OVERTON@*************.OM.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 12:10:09 -0700
>>>>bout magic unbeatable decks...

sharazad was banned by the time bosium strip came out

Leif
"bout unbeatable magic decks

it doesn't matter what type...i play with friends who have played for years and
with other people from the gathering grounds...world ranked players playing in
the worlds largest magic dealer...i think i have some idea whats going on...and
usually the best decks are the most played, so yes i've seen them, and done of
them are unbeatable...

Leif>>>>>>

ok guys this is a shadowrun list not magic. so not off the magic talk. NO
ONE CARES.

word from "DA' PUCK"


______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Author: Non-HP-Paladine (Paladine@*****.NET) at HP-PaloAlto,mimegw2
Date: 8/28/98 11:56 AM


"bout unbeatable magic decks

it doesn't matter what type...i play with friends who have played for
years and with other people from the gathering grounds...world ranked
players playing in the worlds largest magic dealer...i think i have some
idea whats going on...and usually the best decks are the most played, so
yes i've seen them, and done of them are unbeatable...

Leif
Message no. 10
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:48:26 EDT
In a message dated 8/28/98 8:20:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Paladine@*****.NET writes:

>
> ugh..i can't believe i'm even gonna start this argument....but there is
> no such thing!! no deck is unbeatable!! ever! thats one of the strongest
> points for magic
>
> Leif
>
even though magic sucks....no game in the industry has an unbeatable deck...no
such thing....and never will be...it's a myth....


brak da yak
Message no. 11
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:50:53 EDT
In a message dated 8/28/98 12:30:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
YuHyunCho@***.COM writes:

> But the person with better
> cards has a definite edge.
if you say so.......


brak da yak
Message no. 12
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 1998 21:54:15 EDT
In a message dated 8/28/98 12:44:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
YuHyunCho@***.COM writes:

> *shrug* how do you know there is no such thing? Have you gone around the
> world and seen every single deck there is? and are you talking about T1 or
> T2?
>
don't have to go around the world to see every magic deck cuz everyone plays
the same damn decks.....that's why magic sucks....


brak da yak
why? cuz i said so
Message no. 13
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 04:47:14 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-28 21:53:37 EDT, you write:

> > But the person with better
> > cards has a definite edge.
> if you say so.......

why don't you take an all-common deck to a tournament? See how it would do

jc
Message no. 14
From: Noah Overton <Puckstpr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:00:47 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 04:48:18 EDT, you write:

> > > But the person with better
> > > cards has a definite edge.
> > if you say so.......
>
> why don't you take an all-common deck to a tournament? See how it would do
>
> jc

i did just build a no rares deck that i think could hold its own in any
tournament.
not only is it a all common and un-common. but it rompt all over the deck that
won at GenCon. so you tell me.

words from "DA' PUCK"
Message no. 15
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:03:49 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 17:02:14 EDT, you write:

> i did just build a no rares deck that i think could hold its own in any
> tournament.
> not only is it a all common and un-common. but it rompt all over the deck
> that
> won at GenCon. so you tell me.

don't tell me about a one time fluke. and I'd like to see you actually take
that deck into a tournament

jc
Message no. 16
From: Noah Overton <Puckstpr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 17:10:01 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 17:04:47 EDT, you write:

> > i did just build a no rares deck that i think could hold its own in any
> > tournament.
> > not only is it a all common and un-common. but it rompt all over the
deck
> > that
> > won at GenCon. so you tell me.
>
> don't tell me about a one time fluke. and I'd like to see you actually
take
> that deck into a tournament
>
this aint some one time fluke deck. i beat his GenCon deck twice both times
soundly and i would take this to a tournament. matter fact i am hoping the con
i go to next week end actully has one, ritgh now there is not one set up. but
i would put this deck up againt any out there right now and it would do fine.
so dont give me this one time fluke shit. you dont even know what the deck
looks like or how it's played .

words from "DA' PUCK"
Message no. 17
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:21:43 EDT
In a message dated 8/30/98 4:48:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, YuHyunCho@***.COM
writes:

> why don't you take an all-common deck to a tournament? See how it would do

i would and you know why cuz no one would expect it.... due to the lack of
deck building skills i see on this list....some people nevr learn...the power
of the deck comes form the player not the cards....so CHO you keep building
your one track decks...prolly can't even play that right...
later


brak
Message no. 18
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 20:24:42 EDT
In a message dated 8/30/98 5:04:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, YuHyunCho@***.COM
writes:

>
> don't tell me about a one time fluke. and I'd like to see you actually
take
> that deck into a tournament
>
> jc
>

shouldn't talk about peoples deck cuz you lack the creativity to build decks

brak
Message no. 19
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 21:28:07 -0700
---Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM> wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-08-28 21:53:37 EDT, you write:
>
> > > But the person with better
> > > cards has a definite edge.
> > if you say so.......
>
> why don't you take an all-common deck to a tournament? See how it would do

I've got a deck build I call (Un)Common Occurrences that I've posted to the
list on a number of occassions. It's all commons and uncommons (only six or
eight uncommons IIRC). It holds it's own quite well in games we play here. At
GC'98 Bull ended up leaving his own deck in the hotel room, so I loaned him
this deck to play in the SRCard tourney and he made a decent showing with it,
conisdering he was playing the deck cold.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Shadowrun RPG 3rd Edition Playtester. SRTCG Playtester.
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 20
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 01:23:38 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 17:02:31 EDT, you write:

<<
> > > But the person with better
> > > cards has a definite edge.
> > if you say so.......
>
> why don't you take an all-common deck to a tournament? See how it would
do
>
> jc

i did just build a no rares deck that i think could hold its own in any
tournament.
not only is it a all common and un-common. but it rompt all over the deck
that
won at GenCon. so you tell me.

words from "DA' PUCK" >>

I can vouch for this as itwas my deck he beat

OneWay
Message no. 21
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:03:10 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 17:10:57 EDT, you write:

> this aint some one time fluke deck. i beat his GenCon deck twice both times
> soundly and i would take this to a tournament. matter fact i am hoping the
> con
> i go to next week end actully has one, ritgh now there is not one set up.
> but
> i would put this deck up againt any out there right now and it would do
fine.
>
> so dont give me this one time fluke shit. you dont even know what the deck
> looks like or how it's played .

no need to get uncivilized, old boy. anyway, my point wasn't that your deck
sucked, or that you are a bad player. How would your deck be if you didn't
own some of the cards in the deck? You couldn't make the deck as effective if
you were missing some cards, now could you? That's what I'm trying to get at.

jc
Message no. 22
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:07:31 EDT
In a message dated 8/31/98 4:04:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, YuHyunCho@***.COM
writes:

> You couldn't make the deck as effective if
> you were missing some cards, now could you? That's what I'm trying to get
> at.
>
so you work with wut you got...you can't expect to win every game anyways...it
just doesn't work that way...and i seriously doubt anyone is hurting for
commons and uncommons???...in some games the chesse decks are made up of all
commons....power cards can't match a clever player...

brak "why??? cuz i said so..and das the bottom line"
Message no. 23
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:07:55 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 20:24:03 EDT, you write:

> i would and you know why cuz no one would expect it.... due to the lack of
> deck building skills i see on this list....some people nevr learn...the
> power
> of the deck comes form the player not the cards....so CHO you keep building
> your one track decks...prolly can't even play that right...
> later

now, how do you know what kind of decks I make? Have you actually seen any of
my decks? and I find your comment about my playing very offensive. Have you
seen me play? If you have, then I won't comment. But you haven't, so don't
make such rude remarks when you don't know.

jc
Message no. 24
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:10:22 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-30 20:25:47 EDT, you write:

> shouldn't talk about peoples deck cuz you lack the creativity to build decks
>
> brak

okay, that was hasty of me to say. I presumed too much. and I apologize. I
got a bit sidetacked. anyway, i was trying to make a different point. kind
of came out wrong.

jc
Message no. 25
From: Joshua Cho <YuHyunCho@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 04:44:52 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-31 04:09:30 EDT, you write:

> so you work with wut you got...you can't expect to win every game anyways...
> it
> just doesn't work that way...and i seriously doubt anyone is hurting for
> commons and uncommons???...in some games the chesse decks are made up of
all
> commons....power cards can't match a clever player...

not everybody has the luxury to buy boxes and boxes... and the first set is
huge. For a long time I was hurting for uncommons... anyway...

clever player with power cards and clever player without power cards...
playing the same type of deck... do you think it would be even? just curious.

jc
Message no. 26
From: Noah Overton <Puckstpr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Another Point About Bully Decks.
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 09:59:34 EDT
In a message dated 98-08-31 04:04:15 EDT, you write:

> no need to get uncivilized, old boy. anyway, my point wasn't that your deck
> sucked, or that you are a bad player. How would your deck be if you didn't
> own some of the cards in the deck? You couldn't make the deck as effective
> if
> you were missing some cards, now could you? That's what I'm trying to get
> at.
>
> jc

like i said in the beging it was made from just 8 packs i had sitting in my
deck. i did add a coulpe of cards but nothing that you dont usally see if buy
a couple of starters. and I was not try to be uncivil, it was to your comment
about it being a fluke that i was replying, i have played enough to know when
a deck is a fluke and when it is a contender.

words from "DA' PUCK"

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