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Message no. 1
From: Joao Maia <Joao.Maia@*****.PT>
Subject: Widow's trap
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:33:53 +0100
What does "encountered" mean in Widow's Trap ?

Does it mean that the card is trashed after it is revealed (wheter the
runners return to the safehouse or decide to continue and throw the D6)
or does it mean that it only gets trashed after the shadowrunning player
faces the result of the D6 ?

See ya,

Joao Maia
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Widow's trap
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:12:25 -0800
---Joao Maia <Joao.Maia@*****.PT> wrote:
>
> What does "encountered" mean in Widow's Trap ?
>
> Does it mean that the card is trashed after it is revealed (wheter the
> runners return to the safehouse or decide to continue and throw the
D6)
> or does it mean that it only gets trashed after the shadowrunning
player
> faces the result of the D6 ?

Count it the same as the other Challenges that read "trash after
revealed."

** Also, your mailer is overriding the list's address with your
personal one in the Reply-To field.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 3/28/98
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Message no. 3
From: Joao Maia <Joao.Maia@*****.PT>
Subject: Re: Widow's trap
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 17:49:08 +0100
> ** Also, your mailer is overriding the list's address with your
> personal one in the Reply-To field.

I'm sorry but I have to have it configured in this way. You see, I want my
messages to be sent to joao.maia@*****.pt (which is an alias for my real
mail address jmaia@*******@*****.pt). If I configure my mail client so that
my adress is joao.maia@*****.pt (and no reply-to address), there are some
people whom I need to contact that don't receive my messages (they get
bounced...)

Sorry for the incovenience...

Joao Maia
Message no. 4
From: Jeffrey Nuremburg <xanatos@********.NET>
Subject: Widow's Trap
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 21:55:45 -0500
Hey all.

Here is my take on Widow's Trap:

Widow's Trap
Challenge (Indoor)

When Widow's Trap is revealed, shadowrunning team may choose to pull
out of the shadowrun immediately or roll D6:
1-2: No effect.
3-4: Trash a randomly determined Runner.
5-6: Trash 2 randomly determined Runners.
7+: Trash entire shadowrunning team!
Trash Widows' Trap after encountered. Only Runners who are present
can be
trashed.

Now, the problem with this card is the term "encountered". I noted
the problem with this term the first time I saw the card. I've given it
some thought, and I definately do NOT feel that "Trash Widow's Trap after
encountered" can be replaced by "Trash after revealed." I think that the
intent of this card is that it must eventually be faced. It is obviously an
extremely harsh card to confront, thus the design that the Shadowrunning
team can opt to pull out. This allows the player to consider his options
and perhaps run with a single Runner next turn (someone perhaps, that is
considered expendable). In my take on the card, "encountered" means that
one actually "encounters" or deals with the card itself, that is rolls on
the cards table.
If the the card is "Trashed after revealed" then this card is worse
than Chomps 2000 (which can offer the same 1 turn Run stopping power and
which also deals 6 points of damage each time encountered). Of course one
could argue that Chomps 2000 can be sleazed with a 2 Social whereas this
card has no sleaze requirement, but this card was most likely made a rare
for a reason. It is, in my perception, supposed to be an extremely serious
challenge that the player is eventually going to have to confront or
"encounter".

LOKI: I hate to ask this again, but would it be possible to see what the
nice folks at
FASA have to say concerning this card. I mean, they designed the
darn thing so
they must have some idea what the heck they were talking about. :)

That's my .000002 cents.
--
Jeffrey Nuremburg / System Administrator
xanatos@********.net
cgiguy@********.net - All CGI related requests

"I've been an atheist - I had found it difficult to
have religious beliefs and scientific ones, but I've
accepted that I have a duality - there's a human
way of interacting with people but also a mechanistic
explanation of what people are and how they work."

- Rodney Brooks, Director of MIT's AI Lab
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 19:47:20 -0800
---Jeffrey Nuremburg <xanatos@********.NET> wrote:
>
> Hey all.
>
> Here is my take on Widow's Trap:

<sniparoni, the San Francisco treat>

> LOKI: I hate to ask this again, but would it be possible to see
what the
> nice folks at
> FASA have to say concerning this card. I mean, they
designed the
> darn thing so
> they must have some idea what the heck they were talking
about. :)

It's been passed along. I agree on the wording being a stumbling
block. I've been playing it as "encounter = "revealed" but would love
for it to mean the die roll must eventually be faced as I have two in
my current PE2 deck. ;o)

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 3/31/98

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Message no. 6
From: Crane <jack9@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 23:57:34 -0800
<soapbox>/
I agree that Widow's Trap should stay in place.
Yes...I know this has probably been passed on to FASA, but regardless of
what they say, I'm saying that's the way it should be played. My group and
I would never play with a different ruling.
/<soapbox>
Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Wed, 1 Apr 1998 05:35:26 -0800
Jeffrey Nuremburg wrote:

> Hey all.

> Here is my take on Widow's Trap:

<knippe>

I agree with you - the card should remain in play until that fateful D6
roll is made. However, I think that's pretty clear from the card -- one
reason why they didn't use "trash after revealed." And if you take the
pull-out option, you're not encountering the card (that seems pretty
obvious, huh? :)


- Matt

------------------------------------
Beware the man who casts two shadows.

GridSec: SRCard / Wolf in Shepherd's Clothing
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
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Message no. 8
From: Sorrow <sorrow@*******.ORG>
Subject: Widow's Trap
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 09:20:34 -0500
Once Widow's Trap is revealed, it says that that the
team has the option of pulling out. At the end of the
text, it also says trash after "encountered".
Now, is that the same as after "revealed"? Or is this
challenge only trashed after the team commits to the
challenge and rolls the die and resigns to fate?

Sorrow
---
I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am
anymore |--------------------------------
I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...?
anymore | you never seen anyone try to
I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 9
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 22:38:53 -0400
>Once Widow's Trap is revealed, it says that that the
>team has the option of pulling out. At the end of the
>text, it also says trash after "encountered".
>Now, is that the same as after "revealed"? Or is this
>challenge only trashed after the team commits to the
>challenge and rolls the die and resigns to fate?

It was intended to be an updated version of "Trash afte revealed", since
trash after revealed would mean before the team faced it. Widow's trap is
trashed after it is encountered, whether the team decides to trust their
luck or go home.
Message no. 10
From: "James E. Frazer" <jimmicane@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 11:33:33 -0700
>>Once Widow's Trap is revealed, it says that that the
>>team has the option of pulling out. At the end of the
>>text, it also says trash after "encountered".
>>Now, is that the same as after "revealed"? Or is this
>>challenge only trashed after the team commits to the
>>challenge and rolls the die and resigns to fate?
>
>It was intended to be an updated version of "Trash afte revealed", since
>trash after revealed would mean before the team faced it. Widow's trap is
>trashed after it is encountered, whether the team decides to trust their
>luck or go home.
>
See, I know this is the official FASA ruling, but I just don't get it. Think about it,
it's basically a Booby trap that you can pull out of. Sure, sometimes you can lose 2
runners, or with a loaded dice you can lose the whole team, but it's still not all that
powerful. They make this a rare card and then say that all it is is a choice between a
Booby Trap or a Hellish Traffic (possibly blow up, or go home).

I say if the card is rare, make it worth the price to get. Hell, look at a Yakuza
Assassin. The bugger is a 6/6 (A2) that goes one on one with another runner. That's
huge, and it's worth it. Toss that on a Crossfire or a Operation Cottonmouth and it
almost becomes an impossible to pass wall.

Oh well, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
Hurricane



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Message no. 11
From: "Bourgault, Patrick" <pbourgau@***.CA>
Subject: Re: Widow's Trap
Date: Mon, 15 Jun 1998 14:48:00 PDT
>>Once Widow's Trap is revealed, it says that that the
>>team has the option of pulling out. At the end of the
>>text, it also says trash after "encountered".
>>Now, is that the same as after "revealed"? Or is this
>>challenge only trashed after the team commits to the
>>challenge and rolls the die and resigns to fate?
>
>It was intended to be an updated version of "Trash afte revealed", since
>trash after revealed would mean before the team faced it. Widow's trap
is
>trashed after it is encountered, whether the team decides to trust their
>luck or go home.
>
See, I know this is the official FASA ruling, but I just don't get it.
Think about it, it's basically a Booby trap that you can pull out of.
Sure, sometimes you can lose 2 runners, or with a loaded dice you can
lose the whole team, but it's still not all that powerful. They make
this a rare card and then say that all it is is a choice between a Booby
Trap or a Hellish Traffic (possibly blow up, or go home).

You're right about this one, but at least you can sleaze Booby Trap with
Demolition (yeah right. How many times do I have to wait a number of
turn just to sleaze that blasted card. Most of the times I have to wait
a turn before reaching the O. because that fragging alarm has been
triggered).

I say if the card is rare, make it worth the price to get. Hell, look at
a Yakuza Assassin. The bugger is a 6/6 (A2) that goes one on one with
another runner. That's huge, and it's worth it. Toss that on a
Crossfire or a Operation Cottonmouth and it almost becomes an impossible
to pass wall.

Oh well, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong...
Hurricane

First of all, it's a 6/6 (A1). By itself, I'd say it beats a runner 50%
of the times, considering that the opposed team can make some Recon. And
yes, I'm waiting to put that card on one of those two O.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Widow's Trap, you may also be interested in:

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Thwap!