Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Bourgault, Patrick" <pbourgau@***.CA>
Subject: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:29:00 PDT
Bullet barrier. Since bullet barrier covers an area and for that reason,
all damage is received by the barrier, which armor does count. Ex.: I
have a mage with the spell and Torgo (boy, do we talk about him a lot
?!?!?!). Do the team has 2 or 3 points of armor. In other word, does
Torgo "lose" his armor because he is already protected by bullet barrier
??

What about spirits and drones ?? I'm just imagining a team of 6 runners
with, lets be fair, Roadrash and Wishbone (not to say Scatter and
Wheeler) which are full of spirits/drones (each can have 2). Does the
team now has A10 ??

What about the spirits/drones that the runner cannot use because of his
limited skill ?? Do those spirits/drones receive armor from the spell ??

Sorry people, so many questions, so little answers. Please be gentle
!!!!! ;-)
Message no. 2
From: Pedro Gomes <Pedro.Gomes@**.SIEMENS.PT>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:44:08 +0100
<sniped all the questions>

The questions all added to the same...who get the armor from Bullet barrier.

From the spoilers:
Play on runner with sorcery. (A1) until the end of combat to user and all
RUNNERS on shadowrun with user. Bullet barrier is NOT COMULATIVE with other
armor.

So by the looks of it you kiss Torgo's armor bye bye and the drones/spirits do
not get armor.

Pedro Gomes

--
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you can rejoice.
Message no. 3
From: Donald Arganbright <jayden63@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:47:46 PDT
><sniped all the questions>
>
>The questions all added to the same...who get the armor from Bullet
barrier.
>
>From the spoilers:
>Play on runner with sorcery. (A1) until the end of combat to user and
all
>RUNNERS on shadowrun with user. Bullet barrier is NOT COMULATIVE with
other
>armor.
>
>So by the looks of it you kiss Torgo's armor bye bye and the
drones/spirits do
>not get armor.
>
Wronge - the rule book states that you use wich ever (A#) is greatest.
For example if you give Lord Torgo a Rapier (with (A1)), that the armor
rating that is highest is effective (Torgos (A2)). so example-

torgo, sally w/bullet barrier, squaaaaark, redline w/rapier, and 2
tinkerbells go on a run. Here is the effect of bullet barrier.

Lord Torgo - none
Sally Tsung - give (A1)
Squaaaaaark - none
Redline - none
Tinkerbell - give (A1) to each of them

This is my understanding

*** In ruling, the Sage attends to the heart, not the eye ***
*** - Tao ***


Donald Arganbright
Jayden Stormwalker


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Message no. 4
From: belgambit <djdcrosk@******.UWATERLOO.CA>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:08:14 -0400
At 02:44 PM 4/16/98 +0100, you wrote:
><sniped all the questions>
>
>The questions all added to the same...who get the armor from Bullet barrier.
>
>>From the spoilers:
>Play on runner with sorcery. (A1) until the end of combat to user and all
>RUNNERS on shadowrun with user. Bullet barrier is NOT COMULATIVE with other
>armor.
>
>So by the looks of it you kiss Torgo's armor bye bye and the
drones/spirits do
>not get armor.
>
>Pedro Gomes
>
>--
>When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced.
>Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you can rejoice.
>

I don't know about Lord Torgo specifically (I haven't seen the card yet),
but my interpretation of the rules would be that if Torgo has greater
protection than A1 in this case, he would use that instead. The not
cumulative aspect to me just implies that the bullet barrier won't help you
if you already have armor.
Message no. 5
From: Pedro Gomes <Pedro.Gomes@**.SIEMENS.PT>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:11:03 +0100
Donald Arganbright wrote:
<snip>
> Wronge - the rule book states that you use wich ever (A#) is greatest.
> For example if you give Lord Torgo a Rapier (with (A1)), that the armor
> rating that is highest is effective (Torgos (A2)). so example-
<snip example>

Sorry but I'll have to disagree with you. I browsed the online rulebook and all
I found resembling your opinion is the following:

<BEGIN QUOTE>
ARMOR

Both Runners and Challenges may have Armor, indicated in parentheses as
A and a number (for example, A2). Some Gear cards can be played on a
Runner to modify his Armor Rating, or to provide unarmored Runners with
Armor. Armor provided by Gear cards is indicated two ways. The first is
as A + a number, for example, A + 1. In this case, a Runner with Armor
increases the rating of that Armor by 1, and a Runner without Armor
receives an Armor Rating of 1. Armor provided by Gear cards may also be
indicated as A and a number (for example, A1). In this case, the Armor
provided by the Gear is not cumulative with any other Armor. If a
Runner has Armor of A1 and is holding a Vehicle card that provides
Armor of A2, the Runner is protected by an Armor Rating of 2.
<END QUOTE>

Now all this says is that the armor of the vehicle prevails over the one of the
runner, not that you get to choose. Maybe there is a ruling that I don't know
of, but until there I'll stick to my first opinion, Torgo's armor is bye bye...

Pedro Gomes

--
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you can rejoice.
Message no. 6
From: Bradley Aaron Rebh <brebh@*****.BGSU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:35:52 -0400
On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Pedro Gomes wrote:

<clip armor stuff>
> provided by the Gear is not cumulative with any other Armor. If a
> Runner has Armor of A1 and is holding a Vehicle card that provides
> Armor of A2, the Runner is protected by an Armor Rating of 2.
> <END QUOTE>
>
> Now all this says is that the armor of the vehicle prevails over the one of the
> runner, not that you get to choose. Maybe there is a ruling that I don't know
> of, but until there I'll stick to my first opinion, Torgo's armor is bye bye...

I don't really care one way or the other, but I think you read into that a
little too much. I think they were just saying to choose the higher Armor
Rating. I mean, if Torgo is driving a Rapier, he wouldn't lose his
toughness, the bike would simply provide no more toughness. Similarly, a
Bullet Barrier pops up and makes Torgo weaker? I don't think so...

more cents...

-----------------------------------------
Bradley Aaron Rebh

brebh@*****.bgsu.edu
http://art.bgsu.edu/~rebh

920 E.Wooster #4
Bowling Green, OH 43402
419.353.2405
-----------------------------------------
Message no. 7
From: Noah Overton <NOAH_OVERTON@*************.OM.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:20:09 -0700
Donald Arganbright wrote:
<snip>

<BEGIN QUOTE>
<ARMOR

<Both Runners and Challenges may have Armor, indicated in parentheses
<as A and a number (for example, A2). Some Gear cards can be played on
<a Runner to modify his Armor Rating, or to provide unarmored Runners
<with Armor. Armor provided by Gear cards is indicated two ways. The
<first is as A + a number, for example, A + 1. In this case, a Runner
<with Armor increases the rating of that Armor by 1, and a Runner
<without Armor receives an Armor Rating of 1. Armor provided by Gear
<cards may also be indicated as A and a number (for example, A1). In
<this case, the Armor provided by the Gear is not cumulative with any
<other Armor. If a Runner has Armor of A1 and is holding a Vehicle
<card that provides Armor of A2, the Runner is protected by an Armor
<Rating of 2.
<<END QUOTE>

cards text
Play on a Runner with Sorcery. !A1) until end of combat to user and
all Runners on shadowrun with user. Bullet Barrier is not cumulative
with other armor.

O.K. I know the card says A1 but IMHO it should be A+1. why you ask?
well lets look at what a barrier. a wall is a barrier. if a runner
was behind a A1 wall with out armor and was attacked through the
wall, the wall would absorb 1 point of damage. correct.

now if the same runner was behind the same wall but had on a armor
vest a1. the same attack through the wall, the wall would absorb 1
point of damage then the vest would absorb 1 point of damage.

now before any one comes back with "but the card says". I know
what it says. but I think it should be A+1.
plus i think it should be good only against firearms and gunnery
attacks. But then there is the question how do you determine what
kind of attack a challenge is.

there is my thought on the deal. have at it
Noah
Message no. 8
From: Jon Palmer <jmp225@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:15:31 -0400
>Both Runners and Challenges may have Armor, indicated in parentheses as
>A and a number (for example, A2). Some Gear cards can be played on a
>Runner to modify his Armor Rating, or to provide unarmored Runners with
>Armor. Armor provided by Gear cards is indicated two ways. The first is
>as A + a number, for example, A + 1. In this case, a Runner with Armor
>increases the rating of that Armor by 1, and a Runner without Armor
>receives an Armor Rating of 1. Armor provided by Gear cards may also be
>indicated as A and a number (for example, A1). In this case, the Armor
>provided by the Gear is not cumulative with any other Armor. If a
>Runner has Armor of A1 and is holding a Vehicle card that provides
>Armor of A2, the Runner is protected by an Armor Rating of 2.
><END QUOTE>
>
>Now all this says is that the armor of the vehicle prevails over the one of the
>runner, not that you get to choose. Maybe there is a ruling that I don't know
>of, but until there I'll stick to my first opinion, Torgo's armor is bye bye...

I think you missed the point here. It's not that the vehicle's armor
override's Torgo's; rather, the higher armor always wins out. I mean, that
makes sense, doesn't it?

Jon Palmer
Message no. 9
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Another trick question.
Date: Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:06:23 -0400
> cards text
> Play on a Runner with Sorcery. !A1) until end of combat to user and
> all Runners on shadowrun with user. Bullet Barrier is not cumulative
> with other armor.
>
> O.K. I know the card says A1 but IMHO it should be A+1. why you ask?
> well lets look at what a barrier. a wall is a barrier. if a runner
> was behind a A1 wall with out armor and was attacked through the
> wall, the wall would absorb 1 point of damage. correct.
>
> now if the same runner was behind the same wall but had on a armor
> vest a1. the same attack through the wall, the wall would absorb 1
> point of damage then the vest would absorb 1 point of damage.
>
> now before any one comes back with "but the card says". I know
> what it says. but I think it should be A+1.
> plus i think it should be good only against firearms and gunnery
> attacks. But then there is the question how do you determine what
> kind of attack a challenge is.


We've been over this many times on the list. While the card game does do its
best to be realistic, there are certain things that wouldn't make sense in
real life, but work in the game. How, for example, would Lord Torgo fit into
the same Partial Heavy Armor as Tinkerbell. Making it (A+1) would be far too
powerfull, as you would always be adding one armor for each runner.
Remember, if you must rationalize, that magic works in strange and
wonderfull ways. Maybe (A1) instead of (A+1) is the universes way of giving
the little guys a little bit of an advantage. Karma as it were.

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Another trick question., you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.