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Message no. 1
From: "Keith R. Chenoweth" <kchenwth@*****.NET>
Subject: Burned on Trade?
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 22:18:09 -0500
Hi, all.

Well, after about a dozen successful trades prompted by this list, it looks
like I may have finally gotten burned on one. This brings to mind a couple
of questions:

1) How often does this happen to others? A rarity, or just a cost of
dealing on the net?

2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen it
done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.

3) Is there any recourse that anyone has had work to resolve this? We're
not talking about a fortune here, but I hate losing even just 3 rares.

Thanx,
Keith
Message no. 2
From: "Dean S." <AresZero@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 23:21:50 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-14 23:07:28 EDT, you write:

<< 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen it
done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know. >>

If there isn't a policy on this, there should be IMHO. I've only traded once,
though I'll admit, I was a bit nervous. Luckily, it went over smooth. I
can't tell you how irate I'd be if I got burned like that. On the bright
side....I'd have his address *EFG* Boy, do I love road trips! *hehe*

Dean
Message no. 3
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 20:39:42 -0700
---"Keith R. Chenoweth" <kchenwth@*****.NET> wrote:
>
> Hi, all.
>
> Well, after about a dozen successful trades prompted by this list, it looks
> like I may have finally gotten burned on one. This brings to mind a couple
> of questions:
>
> 1) How often does this happen to others? A rarity, or just a cost of
> dealing on the net?

I have yet to get burned, and I've done a hefty amount of trading through the
list both US and international. 'Course I ask for references if I haven't
traded with the individual before, and if they lack references then I state
that I'll hold onto my cards until their cards arrive if they want to go
through with it.

I also recognize that I have a bit of an advantage as most traders won't want
to be known as the one who stiffed the SRCard Fearless Leader. ;o)

> 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen it
> done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.

This is a forum for trading. As such, a bad trader alert is only fair to the
other list members. However, keep it tactful and concise. You can get your
point across without an extensive flame.

> 3) Is there any recourse that anyone has had work to resolve this? We're
> not talking about a fortune here, but I hate losing even just 3 rares.

Unfortunately none I can think of. Post a bad trader alert, and learn from the
experience. Request references, email those references what their experiences
with said trader have really been.

I know a number of list members (such as myself) keep a posted list of refs on
their webpages. A list such as mine works both ways, they are people I've
traded with and hopefully would recommend me as well as I would recommend
trades with them.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 4
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 05:27:16 -0600
At 20:39 14/07/98 -0700, Loki wrote:

>I also recognize that I have a bit of an advantage as most traders won't want
>to be known as the one who stiffed the SRCard Fearless Leader. ;o)

Oh Loki, I'm just cowering in fear.. :-)

>> 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen it
>> done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.
>
>This is a forum for trading. As such, a bad trader alert is only fair to the
>other list members. However, keep it tactful and concise. You can get your
>point across without an extensive flame.

Also, it's considered *really* bad form to post the persons physical
address. If you want to let people know not to trade with someone who may
have changed internet addresses, list previous net.address, web page if
any, handles/nicks they used, and city and state. Most people get mucho
peeved if somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, even if
it *is* justified.

-Adam J
-
< http://www.interware.it/users/adamj / ICQ# 2350330 / fro@***.ab.ca >
< ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader / TSA Co-Admin / TSS Productions >
< FreeRPG & Shadowrun Webring Admin / The Shadowrun Supplemental >
< The Entity responsible for the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball >
Message no. 5
From: Pedro Gomes <Pedro.Gomes@**.SIEMENS.PT>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 14:41:02 +0100
Adam J wrote:
> Also, it's considered *really* bad form to post the persons physical
> address. If you want to let people know not to trade with someone who may
> have changed internet addresses, list previous net.address, web page if
> any, handles/nicks they used, and city and state. Most people get mucho
> peeved if somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, even if
> it *is* justified.

There I must disagree...if they don't want to get, and I quote, peeved if
somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, end quote, they
shouldn't burn me in a trade....they burn me, I burn them....

Don't want to start a flame here...but I had to speak about this.

Pedro Gomes

--
"Don't open your eyes you won't like what you see, the blind have been blessed
with security. Don't open your eyes take it from me, I have found, you can find
happiness in slavery" - Nine Inch Nails

[*DISCLAIMER*] The above are my personal opinions. Siemens is in no way liable
for the opinions expressed here.
Message no. 6
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 10:04:57 -0400
At 02:41 PM 7/15/98 +0100, Pedro wrote:
>Adam J wrote:
>> Also, it's considered *really* bad form to post the persons physical
>> address. If you want to let people know not to trade with someone who may
>> have changed internet addresses, list previous net.address, web page if
>> any, handles/nicks they used, and city and state. Most people get mucho
>> peeved if somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, even if
>> it *is* justified.

>There I must disagree...if they don't want to get, and I quote, peeved if
>somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, end quote, they
>shouldn't burn me in a trade....they burn me, I burn them....

>Don't want to start a flame here...but I had to speak about this.

>Pedro Gomes

Snipping is optional on the list lately.

I agree with you Pedro. Why protect the guilty when an innocent suffers?
That's what the United States judicial system is for...

Off-topic, I want to thank Noah Overton for offering even a minor comment
about my newest card idea. Only one that took a moment to say something.
Typical really about these things. Seems if one is not in the group,
cliche perhaps, talking about the latest fad, your comments go to the
wayside. Oh well... someone has to be the least liked individual on this
list *snicker*.

Have a few more card ideas, but seems the interest is not here.

Any comments about the apparent surge of people unloading their Shadowrun
cards and getting out of the game? And why with the list addressed to at
least 180-200 people, the group mentioned above are the only ones posting
anything? Don't others have any comments or something?

What a list.....
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 7
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:18:41 +0200
Axlrose:
> Any comments about the apparent surge of people unloading their Shadowrun
> cards and getting out of the game? And why with the list addressed to at
> least 180-200 people, the group mentioned above are the only ones posting
> anything? Don't others have any comments or something?
>

I don´t think there really is a surge. Three or four people have
announced they´re leaving the game, that´s about 2%. Where I play, there
are more players appearing at tourneys about bi-weekly, although
compared to "the other card game", we´re still minor. ---Felix
Message no. 8
From: Tatsulong <tiehlong@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:40:22 -0500
Just to clarify the facts,

keith may be referring to me. I was not able to contact several people since I
had to drop everything and leave. My situation was a family emergency
pertaining to my grandmother who is 95+ years old. I made a trade with Keith
and will honor all the trades I have with the others. The following list of
people are the ones who have not received my cards:

keith Chenoweth
Luis Costa
Pedro Gomes
Ivo Petschke (wrong trade confusion on what was to be traded)

So keith my apologies to the above people and you for not being able to contact
you in time as to my current situation. I will have all mail sent out tomorrow.
And for future keith make sure you contact the individual in question before
jumping to fucking conclusion! I hate a whiner and someone who questions my
integrity and then posts on the srcardlist what do I do what do I do!

My apologies to the admin and anyone else who is offended by my words. I am not
in the mood to deal with this at this time. My grandmother is in critical
condition and may not make it through. So the last thing that was on mind was
the trade as well as school as well as work.

I can only ask forgiveness and understanding in this matter. I will honor all
trades I have made with those names listed above.

Sincerely,

James M. Hash (this is my real name by the way).

PS

Keith, next time have the guts and be man enough to confront me with the
problem.

Keith R. Chenoweth wrote:

> Hi, all.
>
> Well, after about a dozen successful trades prompted by this list, it looks
> like I may have finally gotten burned on one. This brings to mind a couple
> of questions:
>
> 1) How often does this happen to others? A rarity, or just a cost of
> dealing on the net?
>
> 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen it
> done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.
>
> 3) Is there any recourse that anyone has had work to resolve this? We're
> not talking about a fortune here, but I hate losing even just 3 rares.
>
> Thanx,
> Keith
Message no. 9
From: Tatsulong <tiehlong@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:43:46 -0500
By the way Pedro I owe you the trade. I posted your name on this reply as well.
Your cards will be in the mail on Thursday.

Sincerely,

James M. Hash (my real name)

Pedro Gomes wrote:

> Adam J wrote:
> > Also, it's considered *really* bad form to post the persons physical
> > address. If you want to let people know not to trade with someone who may
> > have changed internet addresses, list previous net.address, web page if
> > any, handles/nicks they used, and city and state. Most people get mucho
> > peeved if somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, even if
> > it *is* justified.
>
> There I must disagree...if they don't want to get, and I quote, peeved if
> somebody posts their home address to any sort of forum, end quote, they
> shouldn't burn me in a trade....they burn me, I burn them....
>
> Don't want to start a flame here...but I had to speak about this.
>
> Pedro Gomes
>
> --
> "Don't open your eyes you won't like what you see, the blind have been blessed
> with security. Don't open your eyes take it from me, I have found, you can find
> happiness in slavery" - Nine Inch Nails
>
> [*DISCLAIMER*] The above are my personal opinions. Siemens is in no way liable
> for the opinions expressed here.
Message no. 10
From: "Keith R. Chenoweth" <kchenwth@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 18:48:39 -0500
Hi all,

I thought someone might like an update on this trade. I received the cards
today from James Hash in good condition. Most of the folks who responded to
my earlier post said they had never been burned on a trade, and I'm still
among that number.

Ironically, it was James himself that smeared his own name, as I never
referred to him specifically in my post. So, I'm in the interesting
position of clearing someone who attacked not only me, but himself, as well.

For the record, I did mail James privately more than once, with no response,
before I "whined" to the list. Only after I posted my message here did I
get a reply, which was exactly the result I desired.

Anyway, all's well that ends well, and all that.

And James- Next time, I recommend that you read your personal mail, take
care of your business, and pull your head out of your ass before you flame
someone in an open forum.

Keith
-----Original Message-----
From: Tatsulong <tiehlong@******.COM>
Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?


>Just to clarify the facts,
>
>keith may be referring to me. I was not able to contact several people
since I
>had to drop everything and leave. My situation was a family emergency
>pertaining to my grandmother who is 95+ years old. I made a trade with
Keith
>and will honor all the trades I have with the others. The following list of
>people are the ones who have not received my cards:
>
>keith Chenoweth
>Luis Costa
>Pedro Gomes
>Ivo Petschke (wrong trade confusion on what was to be traded)
>
>So keith my apologies to the above people and you for not being able to
contact
>you in time as to my current situation. I will have all mail sent out
tomorrow.
>And for future keith make sure you contact the individual in question
before
>jumping to fucking conclusion! I hate a whiner and someone who questions my
>integrity and then posts on the srcardlist what do I do what do I do!
>
>My apologies to the admin and anyone else who is offended by my words. I am
not
>in the mood to deal with this at this time. My grandmother is in critical
>condition and may not make it through. So the last thing that was on mind
was
>the trade as well as school as well as work.
>
>I can only ask forgiveness and understanding in this matter. I will honor
all
>trades I have made with those names listed above.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>James M. Hash (this is my real name by the way).
>
>PS
>
>Keith, next time have the guts and be man enough to confront me with the
>problem.
>
>Keith R. Chenoweth wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>>
>> Well, after about a dozen successful trades prompted by this list, it
looks
>> like I may have finally gotten burned on one. This brings to mind a
couple
>> of questions:
>>
>> 1) How often does this happen to others? A rarity, or just a cost of
>> dealing on the net?
>>
>> 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen
it
>> done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.
>>
>> 3) Is there any recourse that anyone has had work to resolve this?
We're
>> not talking about a fortune here, but I hate losing even just 3 rares.
>>
>> Thanx,
>> Keith
>
Message no. 11
From: Tatsulong <tiehlong@******.COM>
Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
Date: Mon, 20 Jul 1998 22:51:58 -0500
Once again Keith there you go again shootin your fucking mouth off again. Same
message same old song and dance. Don't bother replying back either asshole your
lucky I didnt read this before I read the private message.

Keith R. Chenoweth wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I thought someone might like an update on this trade. I received the cards
> today from James Hash in good condition. Most of the folks who responded to
> my earlier post said they had never been burned on a trade, and I'm still
> among that number.
>
> Ironically, it was James himself that smeared his own name, as I never
> referred to him specifically in my post. So, I'm in the interesting
> position of clearing someone who attacked not only me, but himself, as well.
>
> For the record, I did mail James privately more than once, with no response,
> before I "whined" to the list. Only after I posted my message here did I
> get a reply, which was exactly the result I desired.
>
> Anyway, all's well that ends well, and all that.
>
> And James- Next time, I recommend that you read your personal mail, take
> care of your business, and pull your head out of your ass before you flame
> someone in an open forum.
>
> Keith
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tatsulong <tiehlong@******.COM>
> Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 10:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Burned on Trade?
>
> >Just to clarify the facts,
> >
> >keith may be referring to me. I was not able to contact several people
> since I
> >had to drop everything and leave. My situation was a family emergency
> >pertaining to my grandmother who is 95+ years old. I made a trade with
> Keith
> >and will honor all the trades I have with the others. The following list of
> >people are the ones who have not received my cards:
> >
> >keith Chenoweth
> >Luis Costa
> >Pedro Gomes
> >Ivo Petschke (wrong trade confusion on what was to be traded)
> >
> >So keith my apologies to the above people and you for not being able to
> contact
> >you in time as to my current situation. I will have all mail sent out
> tomorrow.
> >And for future keith make sure you contact the individual in question
> before
> >jumping to fucking conclusion! I hate a whiner and someone who questions my
> >integrity and then posts on the srcardlist what do I do what do I do!
> >
> >My apologies to the admin and anyone else who is offended by my words. I am
> not
> >in the mood to deal with this at this time. My grandmother is in critical
> >condition and may not make it through. So the last thing that was on mind
> was
> >the trade as well as school as well as work.
> >
> >I can only ask forgiveness and understanding in this matter. I will honor
> all
> >trades I have made with those names listed above.
> >
> >Sincerely,
> >
> >James M. Hash (this is my real name by the way).
> >
> >PS
> >
> >Keith, next time have the guts and be man enough to confront me with the
> >problem.
> >
> >Keith R. Chenoweth wrote:
> >
> >> Hi, all.
> >>
> >> Well, after about a dozen successful trades prompted by this list, it
> looks
> >> like I may have finally gotten burned on one. This brings to mind a
> couple
> >> of questions:
> >>
> >> 1) How often does this happen to others? A rarity, or just a cost of
> >> dealing on the net?
> >>
> >> 2) What is the list policy on ratting out a bad trader? I haven't seen
> it
> >> done here, but I assume that other traders here would like to know.
> >>
> >> 3) Is there any recourse that anyone has had work to resolve this?
> We're
> >> not talking about a fortune here, but I hate losing even just 3 rares.
> >>
> >> Thanx,
> >> Keith
> >

Further Reading

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