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Message no. 1
From: Nemein formerly Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:41:58 -0700
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
[snip]
> Variant 1:
>
> Loan Shark
> Type: Location
> Cost: 2
> Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except
> Gear/Magic and Gear/Cyber cards) from that Runner and place
underneath
> Loan Shark to add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your
> credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay the deployment cost
> of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card
> on Visiting Runner.
> If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.
>
[snip]
I kind of like this one, but wouldn't it make more sense to call it
Pawn Shop? Minor point I know, but I think it is more appropriate :-)



>
> Variant 2:
> Playing the Odds
> Type: Special
> Cost: 0
> Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your
> credstick phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. As a stinger,
you > may trash Playing to Odds and add 6Y to your credstick for each
token > on Playing the Odds.
>
[snip]
Personally I think 6 might be a bit much for each token. Atleast for
now there still aren't enough ways to remove cards that are currently
in play. If you really want to make it "Playing the Odds" how about
this:

Playing the Odds
Special
0Y
Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their credstick
phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll a
d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each token
on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total between all
winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly divided. Trash
Playing the Odds after roll.

This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing that
might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this would
prevent loaded dice from being used.



> Variant 3:
>
> Blood Debt
> Type: Special
> Cost: 3Y
> Text: Play on a Yakuza Runner you control. Turn that Runner
and add an
> amount equal to its deployment cost to your credstick.
[snip]
> (d) Trash Runner and add deployment cost to credstick (or,
> frag Runner and add twice..)
>
I kind of like this option, but then again it is similar to the
Retirement card that I sent out the other day (that was a general
remove runner, give controller Y equal to runner's deployment cost).


Here's my contribution to the "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money" thread.

Black Credstick
Gear/Misc.
0Y
Whenever gear is played on runner holding Black Credstick add a token
to Black Credstick and roll a d6. If the roll is equal to or less
than the number of tokens on Black Credstick trash the runner and all
gear they are holding, and the gear card being played. If the roll is
greater than the number of tokens, you get credit towards the purchase
equal to the roll. For instance if the gear card costs 4Y and the
roll is 3Y, you only have to pay 1Y. If the roll is greater than the
cost of the card, you get the gear for free, but you do not get any of
the other Y.

That's the long and short of it. It gets a bit wordy but I want to
make sure all the basic sitautions are covered by the card itself.
Let me know what you think.



Forrest
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Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:09:52 -0700
> > Variant 1:

> > Loan Shark
> > Type: Location
> > Cost: 2
> > Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except
> > Gear/Magic and Gear/Cyber cards) from that Runner and place
> underneath Loan Shark to add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your
> > credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay the deployment cost
> > of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card
> > on Visiting Runner.
> > If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.

> [snip]
> I kind of like this one, but wouldn't it make more sense to call it
> Pawn Shop? Minor point I know, but I think it is more appropriate :-)

Actually, looking back on it, it makes more sense to call it The
Warehouse. Virtually the same effect. The Loan Shark/Pawn Shop lets
you clear out cards you won't ever need *and* get paid for it, sigh.
I'll have to change this to one of the variants.

> > Variant 2:
> > Playing the Odds
> > Type: Special
> > Cost: 0
> > Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your
> > credstick phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. As a stinger,
> > you may trash Playing to Odds and add 6Y to your credstick for each
> > token on Playing the Odds.

> [snip]
> Personally I think 6 might be a bit much for each token. Atleast for
> now there still aren't enough ways to remove cards that are currently
> in play. If you really want to make it "Playing the Odds" how about
> this:

Hmm. LotI is a definite one; someone else winning is another
possibility. 6Y makes it worthwhile if you have a Rocker or two in play,
since (skipping your Credstick phase) you don't get their bonus. Also
useless if you have a lot of Primes in play. Honestly, I wouldn't skip
my credstick phase for *less* than 6Y a turn. Works a bit too well,
however, when you have a way of drawing lots of cards. Maybe bump up
the inital cost?

I need to make a Kobold deck for SRTCG.

> Playing the Odds
> Special
> 0Y
> Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
> when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their credstick
> phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
> credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
> specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll a
> d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each token
> on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total between all
> winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly divided. Trash
> Playing the Odds after roll.

> This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
> participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
> conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing that
> might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this would
> prevent loaded dice from being used.

It's a bit wordy, and it doesn't sound like the owner automatically wins
(maybe I just misunderstand.) *And* I like the thought of using Loaded
Dice in this context. There shouldn't be any exceptions to LD in my
mind.

> > Variant 3:

> > Blood Debt
> > Type: Special
> > Cost: 3Y
> > Text: Play on a Yakuza Runner you control. Turn that Runner
> > and add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your credstick.
> [snip]
> > (d) Trash Runner and add deployment cost to credstick (or,
> > frag Runner and add twice..)

> I kind of like this option, but then again it is similar to the
> Retirement card that I sent out the other day (that was a general
> remove runner, give controller Y equal to runner's deployment cost).

I'll fess up: I added (d) after seeing the Retirement card. It was only
one of many options, of course. Kind of like the Yakuza angle, though
that's not effective until the Underworld expansion comes out.

> Here's my contribution to the "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money" thread.

> Black Credstick
> Gear/Misc.
> 0Y
> Whenever gear is played on runner holding Black Credstick add a token
> to Black Credstick and roll a d6. If the roll is equal to or less
> than the number of tokens on Black Credstick trash the runner and all
> gear they are holding, and the gear card being played. If the roll is
> greater than the number of tokens, you get credit towards the purchase
> equal to the roll. For instance if the gear card costs 4Y and the
> roll is 3Y, you only have to pay 1Y. If the roll is greater than the
> cost of the card, you get the gear for free, but you do not get any of
> the other Y.

> That's the long and short of it. It gets a bit wordy but I want to
> make sure all the basic sitautions are covered by the card itself.
> Let me know what you think.
Message no. 3
From: Nemein <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 03:57:16 -0700
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
[snip]
> Actually, looking back on it, it makes more sense to call it The
> Warehouse. Virtually the same effect. The Loan Shark/Pawn Shop lets
> you clear out cards you won't ever need *and* get paid for it, sigh.
> I'll have to change this to one of the variants.
>

Personally I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. In most
cases you aren't going to put a card into your deck unless you need
it. Sometimes though you reach a point where you don't need the card
(all your runners with gunnery are dead) so you have an extra card
floating around. The Pawn Shop give you a way to cash in on it :-)

Since the cards stay in play it gives you the opportunity to recover
them at any time (for a +1Y penalty). So while it is similar to The
Warehouse it is different enough to make it wourth playing on its own.
What if you added a -1 Y penalty up front (no minimum). So pawning
an Extended Clip (you get 0Y up front and have to pay 2Y to get it
back) would be a pretty lame idea. However, if your riggers/pilots
are dead you can cash out that PRC-44b Yellowjacket for 5Y. When you
find that other Ajax you forgot about you can always go back and get
it, for 7Y.


[snip]
>
> > Playing the Odds
> > Special
> > 0Y
> > Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
> > when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their
credstick
> > phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
> > credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
> > specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll
> > a d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each
> > token on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total
> > between all winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly
> > divided. Trash Playing the Odds after roll.
>
> > This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
> > participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
> > conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing
> > that might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this
would
> > prevent loaded dice from being used.
>
> It's a bit wordy, and it doesn't sound like the owner automatically
> wins (maybe I just misunderstand.) *And* I like the thought of using
> Loaded Dice in this context. There shouldn't be any exceptions to LD
> in my mind.
>

No, you have it right. The owner doesn't automatically win, that's
why you are "playing the odds" ;-) What it does allow you do to hold
back the other players for a round (as they have to give up their
payday to participate). So even if you lose in the end, you've
prevented most of the players from getting money or cards for a round.
In retrospect I kind of like the original Playing the Odds card idea
that you proposed. I think I'm going to change the name of mine to
"Crap Shoot" and add it to my list, as it is a completely different
card and both of them are good in their own right.

Yeah, people are always telling me I have a way of getting wordy when
I write. Also, point taken about the Loaded Dice thing.


[snip]

Forrest
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Message no. 4
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 07:54:13 -0500
You wrote:
>
>---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>>
>[snip]
>> Variant 1:
>>
>> Loan Shark
>> Type: Location
>> Cost: 2
>> Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except
>> Gear/Magic and Gear/Cyber cards) from that Runner and place
>underneath
>> Loan Shark to add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your
>> credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay the deployment cost
>> of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card
>> on Visiting Runner.
>> If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.
>>
>[snip]
>I kind of like this one, but wouldn't it make more sense to call it
>Pawn Shop? Minor point I know, but I think it is more appropriate :-)
>
>

I prefer the Pawn Shop idea as well, though I would still like to see
some workable form of Loan Shark....could be fun.

>
>>
>> Variant 2:
>> Playing the Odds
>> Type: Special
>> Cost: 0
>> Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your
>> credstick phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. As a stinger,
>you > may trash Playing to Odds and add 6Y to your credstick for each
>token > on Playing the Odds.
>>
>[snip]
>Personally I think 6 might be a bit much for each token. Atleast for
>now there still aren't enough ways to remove cards that are currently
>in play. If you really want to make it "Playing the Odds" how about
>this:
>
>Playing the Odds
>Special
>0Y
>Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
>when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their credstick
>phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
>credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
>specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll a
>d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each token
>on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total between all
>winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly divided. Trash
>Playing the Odds after roll.
>
>This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
>participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
>conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing that
>might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this would
>prevent loaded dice from being used.
>
>

To keep things simple, why not just allow a D6 roll instead of a 4
nuyen increase? Makes it a gamble, nice place for those Loaded Dice
and Deja Vu's.

I also like the Blood Debt and Black Credstick ideas, but seem to be a
bit unworkable as written, too much record-keeping...

Argent

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Thwap!