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Message no. 1
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 21:02:36 -0400
Alright, I went down into Chicago to see what the whole deal with the Fasa
representative in Chicago was about. The web page said the person was
suppose to be there from 3 - 7. I called the shop at 3:45 and was told the
rep was not there yet. I waited about another hour and headed out there.
I won't go into the details about how the Stevenson is chopped up here and
there while the major exit to the Dan Ryan is closed off...

Anyway, I arrive and there were a good number of people in the card game
area. I wander the area and a great number of them were playing I think it
is called Legend of the Five Rings or something... Wandering a bit more,
off to the side, was the rep shuffling cards. No one, and I repeat, no one
was around him - almost as if nobody was interested in the game. I asked
if he was who he was and he offered me a seat.

Because I never played the game before, in fact, never played any type of
collectable card games, it was a learning experience. (Anyone in or around
the southwestern suburbs of Chicago drop me a line...) We were using cards
marked Demo - the same cards I assumed that were given away at GenCon. I
used a samurai deck while he used the mage deck. He went step by step for
each move, offering advice on how to play. Because we were only playing to
30 rep points, because I made a sly move using a character with demolitions
and the objective gave a bonus for such, I won.

While I was there, I told him about my displeasure with the shuffling of
the cards in the boosters and starters. He said their was an initial
problem with it but it should be fixed in later editions. I mentioned this
list server and what we do and he never heard of us before my mentioning.
Then I was trying to think of some of the questions that have been asked
about as of late here and his response :

- if the Nerps makes a gear card, for all purposes, the Nerps is
classified as gear or whatever, not a special.

- smartgun links and similar gear is trashed along with guns if the gun
gets trashed and whatnot.

- Flatline can use two pistols and two extended clips -- if one can get
the cards out and into play.

One or two more that I have forgotten. So while he was teaching me the
game and I was asking these questions, the place got louder and louder and
people kept wandering over, seeing what game it was, and apparently
snubbing their noses.

After the game, he gave me a Nerps promo card. I asked if the long box of
cards he had bundled were different types of decks. He said they were all
the same - either a mage deck or a samurai deck. I asked if I could buy a
set - figure with him having that many extras, there would have been no
problem. The rep then went on about how at GenCon too many of the demo
decks were given away so therefore Fasa couldn't afford to give out any
more. I asked again about buying them. He gave me another Nerps promo
card, told me the store sells the cards, then got up and walked over to the
Legend of the Five Rings table.....

Overall, unless you want to get a Nerps promo, the whole is more to learn
the game. And if you already know how to play, the whole would not be
worth one's time.

>>>>>Axlrose - sitting on two extra Nerps now...<<<<<
Message no. 2
From: Jaymz <justin@******.NET>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 12:45:35 -0500
At 09:02 PM 9/27/97 -0400, >>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< wrote:
# Overall, unless you want to get a Nerps promo, the whole is more to learn
# the game. And if you already know how to play, the whole would not be
# worth one's time.

the whole what?!?!?
--
/- justin@****.mcp.com -------------------- justin@******.net -\
|Justin Bell NIC:JB3084| Time and rules are changing. |
|Simon & Schuster | Attention span is quickening. |
|Programmer | Welcome to the Information Age. |
\------------ http://www.mcp.com/people/justin/ ---------------/
Message no. 3
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 14:33:01 -0400
At 12:45 PM 9/28/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 09:02 PM 9/27/97 -0400, >>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<
wrote:
># Overall, unless you want to get a Nerps promo, the whole is more to learn
># the game. And if you already know how to play, the whole would not be
># worth one's time.

>the whole what?!?!?

The total amount of time to drive to where ever the event is taking place,
dealing with any and all traffic and conditions, finding the place,
wandering around and noting that the interest in the game seems to be small
compared to other card games, playing a quick learning demo, seeing the
store have signs it takes certain credit cards but does not when you walk
up to the counter with a stack of goods, then deal with traffic on the way
home, telling yourself, "I just drove 60+ miles round trip for a piece of
cardboard I could have gotten through the mail..."

To me, it was not worth the time.
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 04:06:20 -0700
> The total amount of time to drive to where ever the event is taking place,
> dealing with any and all traffic and conditions, finding the place,
> wandering around and noting that the interest in the game seems to be small
> compared to other card games, playing a quick learning demo, seeing the
> store have signs it takes certain credit cards but does not when you walk
> up to the counter with a stack of goods, then deal with traffic on the way
> home, telling yourself, "I just drove 60+ miles round trip for a piece of
> cardboard I could have gotten through the mail..."

Mastercard and Visa aren't FASA's fault. Can't really say the place's
location or traffic was, either.

On the other hand, I think FASA ought to know that their sales rep
wasn't at a fever pitch marketing the cards.

And, sigh, I would have to blame them for the turgid interest in the
game as well. Frankly, there aren't any other Boston players (nor for
the RPG either). A few more conventions on the calendar would help out
immensely...
Message no. 5
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 15:47:42 -0400
At 04:06 AM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:

<snipped my ranting and raving...>

>Mastercard and Visa aren't FASA's fault. Can't really say the place's
>location or traffic was, either.

Actually, it was Discover, but that is besides the point. I mean, if I had
something out in the open, say I posted here that I have every card
available for trade, you go through the list and gather what you need, then
I tell you, "Sorry, I don't have that...", what would your first reactions
be? Here I am holding onto a good amount of stuff I haven't found
elsewhere and then get denied at the register, then I stare at the
Discover/Cirrus sticker.....

And I don't know about other major cities, but some of the expressways that
were being worked on here in Chicago were just redone less than five years
ago.


>On the other hand, I think FASA ought to know that their sales rep
>wasn't at a fever pitch marketing the cards.

I would say in his defense that if you looked around and saw a good amount
of people playing everything BUT your game, after a while it would get
disheartening. As far as I saw, I was the only one before, during, and
after my tenure on the table. With the occasional person coming up to us
and apparently snubbing the game...


>And, sigh, I would have to blame them for the turgid interest in the
>game as well. Frankly, there aren't any other Boston players (nor for
>the RPG either). A few more conventions on the calendar would help out
>immensely...

Personally, I think they have been slipping the last few years. Whereas
early on you bought a source book that lasted a good couple years game time
(and real life time too), lately the books come out for a specific amount
of time before being concluded by another source book. "Super Tuesday"
followed by "Dunkelzahn's Will" (forgot exact title at the moment) is an
example. Why did they do away with the date and time stamp I don't know -
"Street Samurai Catalog" had a running joke with that with the Smiling
Bandit. The little stuff is what made it more real to me.

And then add the mess with the collation problems, I have not been the
happiest of customers lately *shrug*.

One man's opinion and all...
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 6
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 05:38:46 -0700
> >Mastercard and Visa aren't FASA's fault. Can't really say the place's
> >location or traffic was, either.

> Actually, it was Discover, but that is besides the point. I mean, if I had
> something out in the open, say I posted here that I have every card
> available for trade, you go through the list and gather what you need, then
> I tell you, "Sorry, I don't have that...", what would your first reactions
> be? Here I am holding onto a good amount of stuff I haven't found
> elsewhere and then get denied at the register, then I stare at the
> Discover/Cirrus sticker.....

Gotta love it when that happens. But that's the store's fault; you just
seem to be overlapping it with all the problems FASA had. Has.
Whichever.

> And I don't know about other major cities, but some of the expressways that
> were being worked on here in Chicago were just redone less than five years
> ago.

Oh, Boston is exactly the same way. Idaho grows potatos, we grow
potholes. World's largest exporter, and all that.

> >On the other hand, I think FASA ought to know that their sales rep
> >wasn't at a fever pitch marketing the cards.

> I would say in his defense that if you looked around and saw a good amount
> of people playing everything BUT your game, after a while it would get
> disheartening. As far as I saw, I was the only one before, during, and
> after my tenure on the table. With the occasional person coming up to us
> and apparently snubbing the game...

I've learned this from the RPG, though: sometimes you have to create
your own publicity. I mean, the other gamers have to get tired
sometime, or you can start a converaton with soemone hanging on the
sidelines -- it all depends on the quality of marketer they have. But,
from your description.. well, I wouldn't've played the game either.

Definitely need another NERPS! though. That and a Maglock..

> >And, sigh, I would have to blame them for the turgid interest in the
> >game as well. Frankly, there aren't any other Boston players (nor for
> >the RPG either). A few more conventions on the calendar would help out
> >immensely...

> Personally, I think they have been slipping the last few years. Whereas
> early on you bought a source book that lasted a good couple years game time
> (and real life time too), lately the books come out for a specific amount
> of time before being concluded by another source book. "Super Tuesday"
> followed by "Dunkelzahn's Will" (forgot exact title at the moment) is an
> example. Why did they do away with the date and time stamp I don't know -
> "Street Samurai Catalog" had a running joke with that with the Smiling
> Bandit. The little stuff is what made it more real to me.

The biggest problem is relying on freelancers for all the work. (Says a
guy who's been pushing more than one subby to FASA lately.)

Seriously, though, it's a problem with all RPGs: If you leave everything
in general terms (GURPs for the longest while) then there's nothing for
the players to grasp. If you put down too much, then there's no
freedom, and they're trapped in someone else's plotline. And if you
don't update those plotlines, you're being stagnant, and if you *do*,
you make everything written before obsolete.

Honestly, I've never, not once, been satisfied with the "canon" SR
universe. It's simply not my style, though it's the closest an RPG has
gotten. So I don't buy most of the universe books, and avoid arguments
about who shot Dunkelzahn.

Nobody says, after all, that you have to buy them.

> And then add the mess with the collation problems, I have not been the
> happiest of customers lately *shrug*.

I haven't had any problems with the cards at all. I had a couple that
were severely miscut; FASA replaced them all for the trouble of a
stamp. I'm not sure I like the policy of going from the 'original set'
to an updated 'unlimited' release in less than three months, but that's
another deal altogether.
Message no. 7
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 17:02:30 -0400
At 05:38 AM 9/26/97 -0700, you wrote:

<snip snip credit card stuff>

>Gotta love it when that happens. But that's the store's fault; you just
>seem to be overlapping it with all the problems FASA had. Has.
>Whichever.

After how I started feeling overall, this was like the icing on the cake.
Adding how my desire (greed?) of wanting to buy the demo deck as I saw he
had a box of them and getting refused with what I thought was a lame excuse
*snicker*. I was tempted to play another game, yet the rep got up and left.


>> And I don't know about other major cities, but some of the expressways that
>> were being worked on here in Chicago were just redone less than five years
>> ago.

>Oh, Boston is exactly the same way. Idaho grows potatos, we grow
>potholes. World's largest exporter, and all that.

I see the trade routes between Boston and Chicago are running great eh?

Was hearing that the major ramp going from the Stevenson to the Dan Ryan
has been falling apart - nice little drop if that collapsed...


<snip snip the first impressions>

>I've learned this from the RPG, though: sometimes you have to create
>your own publicity. I mean, the other gamers have to get tired
>sometime, or you can start a converaton with soemone hanging on the
>sidelines -- it all depends on the quality of marketer they have. But,
>from your description.. well, I wouldn't've played the game either.

I am not positive, but isn't Legend of the Five Rings (I think that is the
name) a new card game also? There were at least 8, if not more, people
playing that game and having a blast. People going through binders of
their cards, pulling out stuff, trading and all. I brought my extra SR
cards with in hopes of trading with others, but no one was interested.


>Definitely need another NERPS! though. That and a Maglock..

I have three NERPS! now.....


<more snip snip>

>The biggest problem is relying on freelancers for all the work. (Says a
>guy who's been pushing more than one subby to FASA lately.)

>Seriously, though, it's a problem with all RPGs: If you leave everything
>in general terms (GURPs for the longest while) then there's nothing for
>the players to grasp. If you put down too much, then there's no
>freedom, and they're trapped in someone else's plotline. And if you
>don't update those plotlines, you're being stagnant, and if you *do*,
>you make everything written before obsolete.

>Honestly, I've never, not once, been satisfied with the "canon" SR
>universe. It's simply not my style, though it's the closest an RPG has
>gotten. So I don't buy most of the universe books, and avoid arguments
>about who shot Dunkelzahn.

I on the other hand enjoy the "canon" SR universe. Except it seems they
are going to extremes with it. Maxing out the archetypes you might say.
Though it is good progress for the universe overall, it feels like they are
trying to push the later years into a specific path. I can't really
pinpoint it, just a feeling. While the early game years were open-ended,
the later is "The only way a street sam can survive is via a delta clinic
and cybertechnology..."


>Nobody says, after all, that you have to buy them.

As I mentioned above, I like the whole so... addictive habit you might say.


>> And then add the mess with the collation problems, I have not been the
>> happiest of customers lately *shrug*.

>I haven't had any problems with the cards at all. I had a couple that
>were severely miscut; FASA replaced them all for the trouble of a
>stamp. I'm not sure I like the policy of going from the 'original set'
>to an updated 'unlimited' release in less than three months, but that's
>another deal altogether.

My problem was the boosters I bought had common cards repeated within
themselves, along with many, many, many times over the cards listed in the
exact order on the card list from FASA. Seeing two starters have the exact
same 20+ cards in the exact order was a blow too (my first two to start).
Getting repeats is one thing - getting the same cards over and over within
one pack is another.

I would not mind so much if the 'unlimited' release fixes cards while
retaining the same color and all that as the initial release now. Unless
they start altering cards ala Magic did with the sets and expansion packs,
making past cards null and void while the next expansion is already slated
for a three month release, then the game should be affordable. Yes, I do
not have to buy any of it, but I like the game. I want to get a set just
to have everything from Shadowrun again. But quick releases just to make a
quick buck would turn me off like it did with Magic.

Just my thoughts,
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 8
From: Sam Clifford <Warpspider@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicago - Fasa Representative
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 1997 18:50:44 -0400
>collation problem<

I have experienced boosters and starters always following an
alphabetical/commonality sorting. It is very frustrating, and has hurt in my
efforts
to get friends into the game (mostly Magic diehards.) Magic has had a couple
of sorting problems, but here's the kicker: My friend ordered two boxes of
boosters. ALL of the rares were the same in each box. I didn't check the
uncommons, but both boxes looked nearly identical. I ended up getting one of
the two boxes from him, so no harm done, but imagine someones frustration if
they didn't have a fellow
friend/addict willing to take the cards off his hands.

Sam

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