Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chipjacks (was more questions, less controversial)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 14:49:29 -0500
Yay, semi-new topics!

> ----------
> From: Matb[SMTP:mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM]
> Crane wrote:
> > Has anyone tried playing with chipjacks, while allowing the runner
> to hold
> > multiple chips? Why not! I guess I will.
>
I agree on what Matb answered for your questions. I have a
rigger-chipjack deck, and I just played over my lunch brake, and was
very pleased to not get a single chipjack or skillsoft during the game
(just by random chance). My deck was much stronger without the
chipjacks and skillsofts.

> Actually, I'm ambivalent on the topic. Chipjack-1's become mighty
> powerful when you allow the holder to wield any number of Skillsofts
> (assuming, of course, he only encounters Challenges with skill-1
> sleaze
> requirements).
>
> OTOH, when you allow only one skillsoft, they become exceedingly weak.
> There's a balance to be made, somewhere...
>
I agree. Chipjack 3 would be a particulalry useless card if you could
have a few chipjack 2s and/or 1s and a lot of skillsofts. Currently, I
see no strategic benefit to having skillsofts, except to increase a
rigger's piloting or to add firearms if you want to have one or more
Ranger Arms sniper rifles in a deck. Even in a firearms deck, you are
better off using laser sight than skillsofts.

> Thought: Lower all Skillsoft costs by one (since they are,
> essentially,
> three-card combo with minor effect).
>
I have thought about that as well. This would work well. Paying 4 or
more for a chipjack and one skill is way too expensive when you could
have a weapon or another runner and just blast your way through.

> Thought: Allow Chipjacks to get the first X softs for free (X equal to
> level), then perhaps a slightly higher cost on the rest.
>
This would work well for the Chipjack 3 card, if it allowed you to
search your deck for one free skillsoft. Maybe Chipjack 2 could have a
"first skillsoft is free". This in and of itself could validate
chipjack decks... Maybe.

> Thought: Improved Skillwires (Street Samurai Catalog) which allow you
> to
> load double the number of Skillsofts, at much higher base cost.
>
> Thought: Skill Hardwires (another SSC item) that combine Chipjack and
> Skillsoft, for higher nuyen and Essence cost.
>
Nice thinking! I'm forwarding this message to FASA, I like your ideas!


Also, there could be a Skillsoft Dealer contact card, which could be
similar to Talismonger and Mr. Black:

Roll D6 before paying for a skillsoft.
1: Bad skillsoft! Suffer 1 Armor-piercing and trash skillsoft.
2-4: -1 Nuyen to item cost. (If we keep the current cost, then that's
all this line would say, since this would bring the cost of skillsofts
to 1 or 2 Nuyen. If FASA lowered the cost of skillsofts, either the
card would read "you must pay at least 1 Nuyen", or have 2-4 result in
"Take 1 skillsoft from your draw pile and put it in your hand".
5-6: Take a Chipjack or 2 skillsofts from your draw pile and put the
card(s) in your hand.
Cost of the card could be 4 Nuyen.
Message no. 2
From: Noah Overton <NOAH_OVERTON@*************.OM.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: Chipjacks (was more questions, less controversial)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 12:15:08 -0800
Item Subject: cc:Mail Text

<Also, there could be a Skillsoft Dealer contact card, which could be
<similar to Talismonger and Mr. Black:

<Roll D6 before paying for a skillsoft.
<1: Bad skillsoft! Suffer 1 Armor-piercing and trash skillsoft.
<2-4: -1 Nuyen to item cost. (If we keep the current cost, then
<that's all this line would say, since this would bring the cost of
<skillsofts to 1 or 2 Nuyen. If FASA lowered the cost of skillsofts,
<either the card would read "you must pay at least 1 Nuyen", or have
<2-4 result in "Take 1 skillsoft from your draw pile and put it in
<your hand".
<5-6: Take a Chipjack or 2 skillsofts from your draw pile and put the
<card(s) in your hand.
<Cost of the card could be 4 Nuyen.

I like this alot

> Actually, I'm ambivalent on the topic. Chipjack-1's become mighty
> powerful when you allow the holder to wield any number of Skillsofts
> (assuming, of course, he only encounters Challenges with skill-1
> sleaze
> requirements).
>
> OTOH, when you allow only one skillsoft, they become exceedingly
weak. > There's a balance to be made, somewhere...
>

<I agree. Chipjack 3 would be a particulalry useless card if you
<could have a few chipjack 2s and/or 1s and a lot of skillsofts.
<Currently, I see no strategic benefit to having skillsofts, except to
<increase a rigger's piloting or to add firearms if you want to have
<one or more Ranger Arms sniper rifles in a deck. Even in a firearms
<deck, you are better off using laser sight than skillsofts.

I disagree that Chipjack 3 would be useless. think about it. you can
have all the Skillsofts you need. but if you only got one slot. you
only can use one.
grant it will take some time and Nuyen to get them out. but oh the
sleazing you could do.

once again only my thought on the matter at hand.
Noah
Message no. 3
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Chipjacks (was more questions, less controversial)
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 17:50:36 -0500
[snip my contact idea]
> I like this alot
>
Thanks! Hopefully FASA will like Matb and my ideas. I see a lot of
potential here.

> <I agree. Chipjack 3 would be a particulalry useless card if =
you
> <could have a few chipjack 2s and/or 1s and a lot of skillsofts.
> <Currently, I see no strategic benefit to having skillsofts,
> except to
> <increase a rigger's piloting or to add firearms if you want to
> have
> <one or more Ranger Arms sniper rifles in a deck. Even in a
> firearms
> <deck, you are better off using laser sight than skillsofts.
>
> I disagree that Chipjack 3 would be useless. think about it. you
> can
> have all the Skillsofts you need. but if you only got one slot.
> you
> only can use one.
> grant it will take some time and Nuyen to get them out. but oh
> the
> sleazing you could do.
>
My feeling is that Chipjack 3 is an expensive card, and it takes up
essence. In a 60 card deck, how many of these are you going to put in
the deck? 4? And how many skillsofts? 12? What are your chances of
getting a skillsoft, vs. getting a chipjack? If you get softs but not
the chipjacks, you are hating life, and your hand is holding cards. =
The
price of real estate in my hand is mighty high when I have to consider
drawing more cards instead of taking money and one card. For the price
of chipjacks and skillsofts, I can put some pretty impressive gear =
cards
in my deck, or even more expensive runners. For example, a mage deck,
with sleep spell, can already sleaze a ton of challenges if you roll
right (and sure, the rub is in the D6).

Don't get me wrong, I like playing decks just for fun too, and chipjack
decks can be very fun when you just skate through to a challenge, but
this is just not all that easy with a chipjack deck. I mean, the cost
of 4 chipjack 3's and say 8 skillsofts, vs. just putting 4 runners in
your deck that have a lot of skills and can also kick butt!

Take the cost of a Chipjack 3 and three skillsofts: 3 Nuyen plus (2-3
Nuyen X 3). Say 10 Nuyen all told.

Would you rather have someone like Drake, who is one card, and has
Demolition, Firearms, Leadership, Melee. 4/5. Stamina. for a cost of =
6¥
?

Or, Tempest, just 4 Nuyen for three useful skills, the ability to take
spells, and the ability to inflict damage for 3 Nuyen?

See, take the 12 gear cards you were thinking of assigning to =
Skillsofts
and jacks, put in 3 runners with lots of skills (Drake, Tempest,
Hatchetman, Sam the Sleuth) and put in three Thrash to cover the
increased cost. This still leaves you with 4 other cards you =
eliminated.
If you want more money, play Fame or Fuchi and 2 statics. If you want
more offensive power, put in three weapons. Either way, you are better
off than with skillsofts.

One of the biggest problems with skillsofts is the following: you need
two many gear cards to really make a difference. 5 skillsofts
spread-out across a 60-card deck just aren't enough to matter. 5
weapons do, because one alone makes a ton of difference, for 80% of the
challenges, plus against Z-Zone, etc.

I don't like the way things are with regards to chipjacks. I think a
chipjack deck should be hard, but not this hard!



> once again only my thought on the matter at hand.
> Noah
>

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about Chipjacks (was more questions, less controversial), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!