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Message no. 1
From: Adam Lewis <adamswork@*****.COM>
Subject: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 14:43:44 -0700
So what's the strategy here?

Choose high point ones?

Only choose ones you think your deck can beat?

Choose a couple difficult ones even if you can't beat them, just to
stump your opponent?



==
AdamL

"The good die first."
"But most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying
patterns."



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 2
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 18:27:17 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-18 17:51:54 EDT, you write:

<<
So what's the strategy here?

Choose high point ones?

Only choose ones you think your deck can beat?

Choose a couple difficult ones even if you can't beat them, just to
stump your opponent?
>>

Find the Objectives that match your deck style and use them to YOUR
advantage.... like Shipyard Showdown in a Yakuza deck...or street wars with a
Lonestar heavy deck...

hope this helps

OneWay......MyWay
Message no. 3
From: Jon Edwards <jonathan.edwards@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 15:34:47 +0100
>Find the Objectives that match your deck style and use them to YOUR
>advantage.... like Shipyard Showdown in a Yakuza deck...or street wars with a
>Lonestar heavy deck...
>
>hope this helps

Building on that.....

That's a good point, Gunnar....

I was thinking a variety of Challenges, not just hard hitters like Incubus
and Guardian Dracoform. Things like Maglocks, Mine Fields (my fave) and
other little ones like Fusion Gate, which can really hurt weaker Runners.

A good variety, especially if you know what kind of decks your opponent
likes to play, can really screw them up.

J
Message no. 4
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 02:38:09 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-18 18:34:55 EDT, you write:

<<
A good variety, especially if you know what kind of decks your opponent
likes to play, can really screw them up.
>>
You've got a good point here Jon ...my personal fave is the Security
Consultant... it'll stop the run or make you face your own challenge...ask
Noah about my 2 Sec Consultants and his Guardian Dracoform in one game we
played...it was my day to crush him...ha ha ha ha ;-}

OneWay......MyWay
Message no. 5
From: Jon Edwards <jonathan.edwards@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 07:53:31 -0700
>You've got a good point here Jon ...my personal fave is the Security
>Consultant... it'll stop the run or make you face your own challenge...ask
>Noah about my 2 Sec Consultants and his Guardian Dracoform in one game we
>played...it was my day to crush him...ha ha ha ha ;-}


You're a bad, bad man, Gunnar....heh heh heh...

What I've enjoyed is the Mine Field with 6 so-so Runners. Mine Field would
be bad enough if it was regular damage, but 6 AP....Devestating.
Message no. 6
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:10:13 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-19 10:58:13 EDT, you write:

<<
You're a bad, bad man, Gunnar....heh heh heh...
>>
:::::BIG EVIL GRIN::::: muh ha ha haha
<<
What I've enjoyed is the Mine Field with 6 so-so Runners. Mine Field would
be bad enough if it was regular damage, but 6 AP....Devestating.
>>

Well I used to get my butt kicked by this one but I've since changed my
ways... besides me and Noah quit running with big groups for that very reason.

OneWay
Message no. 7
From: "MARTINL.PERRY" <martylee@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:52:55 -0400
Preacher Wrote:
I have a message bord at http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Nebula/7330

You guys can use it as often as you want and have free speach
I'm new to the Game so please bear with me.

Gunnar Lundquist wrote:

> In a message dated 98-09-19 10:58:13 EDT, you write:
>
> <<
> You're a bad, bad man, Gunnar....heh heh heh...
> >>
> :::::BIG EVIL GRIN::::: muh ha ha haha
> <<
> What I've enjoyed is the Mine Field with 6 so-so Runners. Mine Field would
> be bad enough if it was regular damage, but 6 AP....Devestating.
> >>
>
> Well I used to get my butt kicked by this one but I've since changed my
> ways... besides me and Noah quit running with big groups for that very reason.
>
> OneWay
Message no. 8
From: Rich Smith <Fokker9202@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:53:21 EDT
What I've enjoyed is the Mine Field with 6 so-so Runners. Mine Field would
be bad enough if it was regular damage, but 6 AP....Devestating.

This is why I think that Mine Field is the best Challenge in the game. It's a
Miscellaneous, that cant be normally sleazed! Wow!

--Rich
Message no. 9
From: "O.Kramer" <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 15:48:01 +0200
Rich Smith schrieb:
> What I've enjoyed is the Mine Field with 6 so-so Runners. Mine Field would
> be bad enough if it was regular damage, but 6 AP....Devestating.
>
> This is why I think that Mine Field is the best Challenge in the game. It's a
> Miscellaneous, that cant be normally sleazed! Wow!
>
> --Rich

The most Decks I know use a browse,send one runner and after it they return to
Safehouse.Thats why I have stop to play it.

OLAF
Message no. 10
From: Jon Edwards <jonathan.edwards@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 08:45:28 -0700
>The most Decks I know use a browse,send one runner and after it they
return to
>Safehouse.Thats why I have stop to play it.
>
Admittedly, it doesn't accomplish much but delay the potential inevitable,
but GAQ would make you wait an extra turn before doing that.

But you're right, that is a pain on that card. Also, it depends on whose
Objective it is. I might have a Mine Field on mine, but make a Running
team face a Guardian Dracoform and a Runners On Retainer first, so the
other player may need all his/her runners.

J
Message no. 11
From: "O.Kramer" <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:47:00 +0200
Jon Edwards schrieb:
> >The most Decks I know use a browse,send one runner and after it they
> return to
> >Safehouse.Thats why I have stop to play it.
> >
> Admittedly, it doesn't accomplish much but delay the potential inevitable,
> but GAQ would make you wait an extra turn before doing that.
>
> But you're right, that is a pain on that card. Also, it depends on whose
> Objective it is. I might have a Mine Field on mine, but make a Running
> team face a Guardian Dracoform and a Runners On Retainer first, so the
> other player may need all his/her runners.
>
> J

Hmmm, I think the players here in Berlin playes a other style like your
opponents.But if I do this agains some of my opponents here they have no problem
with it.They are just sending a mage with a invisibily against your dragon and
return to safe house after trash it.Maybe Felix can add a nearbe complet Deck
list of the Deck I`m talking about so you can see what I mean.
(Felix, I mean Jun`s Deck)

OLAF
Message no. 12
From: Noah Overton <Puckstpr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:03:14 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-20 12:54:38 EDT, you write:

> Hmmm, I think the players here in Berlin playes a other style like your
> opponents.But if I do this agains some of my opponents here they have no
> problem
> with it.They are just sending a mage with a invisibily against your dragon
> and
> return to safe house after trash it.Maybe Felix can add a nearbe complet
> Deck
> list of the Deck I`m talking about so you can see what I mean.
> (Felix, I mean Jun`s Deck)
>
> OLAF

you know what can really hurt this is a whoopes, if they cant cast that spell
they go splat, and become dragon chunch and munch.

puck
Message no. 13
From: "O.Kramer" <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 19:32:26 +0200
Noah Overton schrieb:
> In a message dated 98-09-20 12:54:38 EDT, you write:
>
> > Hmmm, I think the players here in Berlin playes a other style like your
> > opponents.But if I do this agains some of my opponents here they have no
> > problem
> > with it.They are just sending a mage with a invisibily against your dragon
> > and
> > return to safe house after trash it.Maybe Felix can add a nearbe complet
> > Deck
> > list of the Deck I`m talking about so you can see what I mean.
> > (Felix, I mean Jun`s Deck)
> >
> > OLAF
>
> you know what can really hurt this is a whoopes, if they cant cast that spell
> they go splat, and become dragon chunch and munch.
>
> puck

Yes,thats one way. I have take only Electric Challanges into my Deck and a lot
of decker with some black hammer.;)
Kill his decker and let the mages run into a Killer Drone or a A.I..

OLAF
Message no. 14
From: Bolton Sara <Sara.bolton@****.BE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 22:56:02 +0200
At 19:32 20/09/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Noah Overton schrieb:
>> In a message dated 98-09-20 12:54:38 EDT, you write:
>>
>> > Hmmm, I think the players here in Berlin playes a other style like your
>> > opponents.But if I do this agains some of my opponents here they have no
>> > problem
>> > with it.They are just sending a mage with a invisibily against your dragon
>> > and
>> > return to safe house after trash it.Maybe Felix can add a nearbe complet
>> > Deck
>> > list of the Deck I`m talking about so you can see what I mean.
>> > (Felix, I mean Jun`s Deck)
>> >
>> > OLAF
>>
>> you know what can really hurt this is a whoopes, if they cant cast that spell
>> they go splat, and become dragon chunch and munch.
>>
>> puck
>
>Yes,thats one way. I have take only Electric Challanges into my Deck and a lot
>of decker with some black hammer.;)
>Kill his decker and let the mages run into a Killer Drone or a A.I..
>
>OLAF
>
I Like running into a guardian dracoform, at last when a Know it is there.
I just run with a "sacrificial lamb" and a "tactic: converge".
("The dragon
was choking on poor old trash guitar when Torgo show us once again how
deadly a monofilament whip can be.") ;-)))))) !

Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.
Message no. 15
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 18:00:14 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-20 17:00:02 EDT, you write:

<<
I Like running into a guardian dracoform, at last when a Know it is there.
I just run with a "sacrificial lamb" and a "tactic: converge".
("The dragon
was choking on poor old trash guitar when Torgo show us once again how
deadly a monofilament whip can be.") ;-)))))) !

Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.
>>

That's nasty Vincent ...very nasty

OneWay
Message no. 16
From: Bolton Sara <Sara.bolton@****.BE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 00:44:44 +0200
At 18:00 20/09/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-09-20 17:00:02 EDT, you write:
>
><<
> I Like running into a guardian dracoform, at last when a Know it is there.
> I just run with a "sacrificial lamb" and a "tactic: converge".
("The dragon
> was choking on poor old trash guitar when Torgo show us once again how
> deadly a monofilament whip can be.") ;-)))))) !
>
> Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.
> >>
>
>That's nasty Vincent ...very nasty
>
>OneWay
>
That's nasty, but that's life, and I am sure, if this was real, Trash would
hapilly give is life to save the other.(Torgo would give him a hand if
needed. ;-))) ).

Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.
Message no. 17
From: "O.Kramer" <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 06:05:27 +0200
Bolton Sara schrieb:
> At 18:00 20/09/98 EDT, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 98-09-20 17:00:02 EDT, you write:
> >
> ><<
> > I Like running into a guardian dracoform, at last when a Know it is there.
> > I just run with a "sacrificial lamb" and a "tactic:
converge". ("The dragon
> > was choking on poor old trash guitar when Torgo show us once again how
> > deadly a monofilament whip can be.") ;-)))))) !
> >
> > Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.
> > >>
> >
> >That's nasty Vincent ...very nasty
> >
> >OneWay
> >
> That's nasty, but that's life, and I am sure, if this was real, Trash would
> hapilly give is life to save the other.(Torgo would give him a hand if
> needed. ;-))) ).
>
> Vincent"lost again"Schmitt.

Yes and I`m hapilly to send torgo home with a GAq.;)

OLAF
Message no. 18
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 02:36:29 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-21 00:10:39 EDT, you write:

<<
Yes and I`m hapilly to send torgo home with a GAq.;)

OLAF
>>

yeah there's nothing like watchin a big ass trog grab his ass and run for the
can
Muhhahahaha....

OneWay
Message no. 19
From: Teos Abadia <tabadia@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:48:02 -0400
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Lewis [SMTP:adamswork@*****.COM]

So what's the strategy here?
Choose high point ones?
Only choose ones you think your deck can beat?
Choose a couple difficult ones even if you can't beat them, just
to
stump your opponent?


Hi, Adam!

The strategy of your objectives should complete the overall strategy of your
deck. I have an article on matching objectives/challenges to your deck
strategy at my Web site, at http://www.duke.edu/~tsa1/Shadowrun/

I will reprint the info below, as I am interested in what others might add.
And, please be positive. I don't need another person telling me that i
don't understand how to play the game, no matter how true or untrue that
statement may be! All I know is that I have fun playing! (Truth be known,
I have had good dealings with that individual before, and don't hold his
comments against him).
-------

Building a Deck Around Challenges and Objectives, by Teos Abadia.

Often, one of the last SRTCG concepts learned is the importance of matching
challenges to objectives, and objectives to runners. The combination of
Challenges and Objectives can play a major role in defeating, slowing down,
or weakening opponents' runners.

Your deck should have an overall strategy. Often, it has a few key
strategies. For example, Deck A consists of deckers and sleazing, relying on
slowly putting together a team of runners that can sleaze through tough
challenges. This deck has certain weaknesses, such as time, since it needs
to put together the right skills. It may have trouble against decks that are
fast because they have a lot of Nuyen, or against decks that use muscle and
stingers to take out your runners.

Deck B is composed of runners with firearms and melee, who rely on getting
the right weapons to get through challenges. The deck can be slowed down by
low cash flow, but tends to gather a lot of momentum over time. The deck
suffers if you draw too many expensive cards early on, or if challenges take
out important runners with valuable gear.

Deck C is composed mainly of riggers, with some muscle and runners with good
skills thrown in. The gear is heavily slanted towards moderately expensive
drones and armor and cheap guns. The deck uses a lot of stingers to tip fate
in your favor, and some of these stingers can be expensive. A deck like this
one can suffer from drawing hands laden with gear and stingers, from slow
cash flow, or from the time required to heal drones.

We will walk through possible strategies for each of these decks.

Deck A

Deck A has the major weakness of time, plus the danger of facing an opponent
with a lot more muscle who can take out her crucial runners.

How can Challenges and objectives be used with her deck? The deckers and
runners with sleazing allow this player to worry less about her opponent's
challenges. Instead, she should focus on her own. An opponent with a lot of
cash can pay for muscle. Challenges are chosen that will slow down the
opponent(s) and that can take out the big runners that her opponent(s) will
favor. Examples are challenges like Incubus and Lone Star Beat Cops that
allow her to target a runner or have a random opponent runner removed from
play. Armor-Piercing challenges can also be chosen. These types of
challenges remove the expensive key runners, and hopefully those that carry
a lot of gear.

Another strategy would be to let the other player buy as much muscle as they
care to, but load up on challenges that end the run, such as Chomps and
Corpselight. In fact, she may want to combine both strategies. Ideally, the
opponent would face a challenge and take armor-piercing damage or loose a
runner, then go on to a challenge that sent them home. On their next turn,
they loose momentum when they have to rebuild or turn to heal.

Objectives can be matched with this strategy. For example, Nosferatu Den can
be costly to the opponent, since they will loose runners against challenges,
go home, then have to return, and repeat the process until they get past the
run-ending challenges. When they reach the final objective, they then loose
yet another runner. Hell House works in a similar way. Another good match
could be Ragnarok to make challenges like corpselight much harder to sleaze.
Dunkelzahn's Black Book allows you to add more challenges, and rewards you
for the leadership skill. A deck can be assembled around Impossible Mission
as well, for the ultimate test of skill. Sucker Runs reduce the number of
challenges this deck has to face, while giving it time to prepare.

Lastly, this deck could decide to boycott one very popular type of challenge
(such as vehicle, or outdoor) and choose objectives that prohibit that kind
of challenge. The best objectives for this are Fusion Run (easier to sleaze,
since one less challenge is present) which prohibits the ever-popular
personnel challenges, and Wetwork (no outdoor, +0/+2 bonus to indoor
challenges, and Nuyen reward for stealth).

Deck B

Deck B's strategy is to build strong runners by adding gear that plays off
of the skills the runners posses. When it gets Rockers out, it can really
roll over opponents. But, if the drawn mix of runners to gear is off, the
deck can be really slow.

This deck will sooner or later be able to shoot and chop its way out of most
challenges. It is heavy on gunnery and firearms, and probably will have a
fair share of mercenaries and street sams. It will want tough challenges,
probably with threat ratings, in order to kill off opponents that may be
playing faster, cheaper decks with weaker runners or equal runners without
as much gear.

An effective strategy might be to have 15 out of 20 challenges have threat
ratings, with the other 5 being challenges that stop runs or have other
effects. Ideal objectives would then be Assassination (reward for firearms,
+0/+2 to Personnel and Awakened Challenges), Fort Knocks (reward for Street
Sams, +0/+3 to Personnel Challenges), and Operation Cottonmouth (Once per
shadowrun, owner may add +2/+2 (A+1) to a revealed Challenge). In fact, the
deck could have threat ratings for all 20 challenges, and throw in three
Sucker Run objectives instead to slow down the other opponent and discard
their challenges.

These strategies are commonly used with muscle decks. The difference here is
that these objectives, while popular, will be VERY effective with this deck,
as almost every challenge and every runner works well with the chosen
objectives. For a less expected strategy, this player could choose runners
that had Stamina and then add Desert Hit and Fugitive Run.

Deck C

My suggested approach would be that this player try matching challenges to
objectives and both to the deck strategy of riggers and affecting the
opponent's fate. For example, using 4 Robo-Plant Revolt objectives and using
challenge cards that are mostly electrical in nature and have a threat
rating. Even weak electrical challenges can become formidable when they
appear twice in a row, and the reward for Riggers matches nicely. A Renraku
makes this deck quite effective.

In multi-player games, this deck might use Crossfire objectives along with
challenges that aren't otherwise pumpable. This way, the deck's owner can
spend her cash on specials, while her opponents spend their cash on the
pumping. When they are low on cash, she runs, or uses specials to get out of
trouble. Damage is fed on to her drones first, keeping vital runners alive.

Another variation is to combine Crossfire with objectives that don't allow
personnel challenges (Fusion Run). This will force the personnel challenges
to either get played on other people's objectives (watch player's faces, if
they look like they would rather play the challenge elsewhere, then it is
probably a personnel challenge) or to be saved and played on crossfire. This
strategy works for you, since if you run on crossfire, pumpable challenges
won't make much of a difference to you. If you don't run on Crossfire, then
you will always be able to spend Nuyen and pump challenges to ensure that
your opponents loose runners.

Overall

So, don't concentrate just on the challenges or just on objectives. It's a
total picture. As for challenge choices, some will really hurt some decks,
while causing no damage to other decks. I love using Mafia Goons on a
nuyen-rich player, or on a player with no cash (which can happen if you play
a ruin the nuyen deck, and your sticky fingers card forces your opponent to
enter the shadowrun phase with no nuyen). For players with a few nuyen, this
card is much less effective for you than a challenge with a threat rating.

A lot of times it is hard to tell what combinations will be effective.
Practice by playing with two decks on your own, and seeing what might
happen, or go out and loose a few games just to learn what might happen. We
all remember the first time someone pumped Halloweener Hell and taught us
just how good a challenge it really is!

Overall, identify the strengths and weaknesses of your deck, and the
different strategies you think the other players might have. Then pick
challenges (along with the rest of your deck) to limit those strengths,
capitalize on weaknesses, and assure the game speed you need. Just like in
basketball, your defense will affect game tempo, and if you can get the
other 'team" to "play your game", then your chance of winning is greater.
You might choose a third of your cards to be with threat ratings to deal
damage to the other player's team. you might choose another third to be
"special cases" that do things like steal cards, throw alarms, and other
things to affect the shadowrun. The rest might be challenges that target one
runner. This strategy would work well against some opponents.

Teos.

Teos Abadia
Senior EHS Consultant
Enterprism Solutions
tabadia@*******************.com
Message no. 20
From: "<Jerry Qualls>" <Freakfingr@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 01:24:59 EDT
In a message dated 98-09-21 11:44:23 EDT, you write:

<<
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Lewis [SMTP:adamswork@*****.COM]

So what's the strategy here?
Choose high point ones?
Only choose ones you think your deck can beat?
Choose a couple difficult ones even if you can't beat them, just
to
stump your opponent?


Hi, Adam!

The strategy of your objectives should complete the overall strategy of your
deck. I have an article on matching objectives/challenges to your deck
strategy at my Web site, at http://www.duke.edu/~tsa1/Shadowrun/

I will reprint the info below, as I am interested in what others might add.
And, please be positive. I don't need another person telling me that i
don't understand how to play the game, no matter how true or untrue that
statement may be! All I know is that I have fun playing! (Truth be known,
I have had good dealings with that individual before, and don't hold his
comments against him).
-------

Building a Deck Around Challenges and Objectives, by Teos Abadia.

Often, one of the last SRTCG concepts learned is the importance of matching
challenges to objectives, and objectives to runners. The combination of
Challenges and Objectives can play a major role in defeating, slowing down,
or weakening opponents' runners.
>>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------


One of my favorites when i play a heavy stamina deck is to use Fugitive Run
with challenges that do damage first (ambush,lone star k9, security drone)
Maybe not an original idea but it flips my pancakes.

Quick question.....Robo-Plant-Revolt....do you keep rollin .( Ya know a 3rd
4th or 5th time if your extreamly unlucky.......and i was......4 times ...i
sent the jerk to Vegas after that his dice were hot) or do you just roll the
first time the electrical challenge is defeated?


Finally , Olaf.........Loki. Thanks for the info on the Genetics lab. I
appreciate it. I still have questions but haveing your comments/opinions does
help.Thanks
Message no. 21
From: "O.Kramer" <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Choosing objectives/challenges
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 17:03:53 +0200
Jerry Qualls schrieb:
> Quick question.....Robo-Plant-Revolt....do you keep rollin .( Ya know a 3rd
> 4th or 5th time if your extreamly unlucky.......and i was......4 times ...i
> sent the jerk to Vegas after that his dice were hot) or do you just roll the
> first time the electrical challenge is defeated?
>
>
> Finally , Olaf.........Loki. Thanks for the info on the Genetics lab. I
> appreciate it. I still have questions but haveing your comments/opinions does
> help.Thanks

Hmm, I think you must roll every time you defeated the challenge.So if you are
unlucky you have to fight the same challange 10 or more times.
There is nothing to say thanks for we all are here to ask and give answers.:)

OLAF

Further Reading

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Thwap!