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Message no. 1
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 20:51:22 -0700
Ok, this week's Card of the Week is actually a set of similar cards:

~~~~~~~~~~

Cermak Blast
Type: Objective
Description: 25 pts.
Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face result instead of
Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Mosquito Spirit 6/6
(A1); 3-4: Fly Spirit 7/7 (A2); 5-6: Wasp Spirit 8/8 (A3). BONUS: +5
Reputation if a Runner with Demolition is present at end of shadowrun.

Cleanse the Hive
Type: Objective
Description: 40 pts.
Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead of the
Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Beetle Spirit 8/8 (A1);
3-4: Cicada Spirit 9/9 (A2); 5-6: Ant Spirit 10/10 (A2). Requirements:
Fight Queen Ant Spirit 11/11 (A3)

Urban Brawl
Type: Objective
Rarity: Uncommon
Description: 35 pts.
Notes: When the run begins, designate a participating Runner as the
ball-carrier. Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead
of the Challenge. 1: Discard Challenge; 2-4: Professional team 7/8
(A2); 5-6: Unsponsored team 6/7 (A1). Requirements: Ball-carrier must
be present at end of shadowrun.

~~~~~~~~~~

Do you like these cards? Is there a particular strategy you use with
them in your deck?

I'm of mixed opinions.

On the one hand, I can see a strategy on your part: as long as you
have heavy hitters in your deck, putting out these objectives will
mean not having to deal with any of the trickier challenges your
opponent holds and you can just hammer your way through.

On the other hand, I get a little miffed when I lay out one of these
and my oponent sends in a gaggle of his "Big Boys. Inevitably I watch
as the Maglocks, Booby Traps, or Dracofrom I drew and had to put down
as challenges in his path become a 6/7 (A1) or 8/8 (A2) and are
summarily slapped around like a red headed step-child. The only one of
the above three IMHO that even poses a threat is Cleanse the Hive as
you at least have the Queen with A3 lurking out there.

Personally, I haven't been playing with any of these objectives that
change a challenge into some sort of "critter" that must be fought. I
have put together a specific collection of challenges in my deck, with
certain requirements and abilities. I don't like seeing all the
challenges on a given objective then come down to a matter of
kicking-ass.

Anyways, enough prattling from me...anyone else have comments,
opinions or rants? :o)

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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Message no. 2
From: Rob Harris <rjharris@********.UIUC.EDU>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:08:54 -0700
Upside: Personally, I find these cards GREAT for specific decks. The idea
is that "I" have all the heavy hitters, and can get them out there quicky.
Play with all the Stamina characters. You don't have to work about skills
AT ALL, in ANY way. Then, just make sure you keep 3 challenges in front of
the Objective at all times. I don't belive the Cermak Blast is worth it,
but the others are worth a LARGE number of points, and the Urban Brawl
objective is a joke (real easy to get through). The trick is to be the
quickest the lay out the large guys (most people spend some time poking
around with gear and skilled characters. Ignore them. Deckers and Shamans
are so much fodder to these decks). Once you have the characters, than you
ALWAYS get a chance to run on your own objective first. Just turn it over,
and take it in the same turn! Easy as pie! One thing I really like about
these cards, is that barring the Urban Brawl, Sleep is effective agaist all
the bugs. I really want to try a bruiser/Mage deck, where I sleaze as many
of the bugs as I can and take the rest on the bruiser. (don't have 4
sleeps, though)

Downside: I think these cards remove a very fun part of the game -
sleazing. The ability for your characters to sleaze through some
challenges, and fight others is what makes the game balanced and
interesting in my opinoin. It keeps the "bigger is better" metality from
overpowering the game. These cards totally remove that. Your highly
skilled, but only medium tough characters are crap agaist these challenges,
and I think that it's just not alot of fun. It seems to degenerate into
"Well, just in case my opponent plays these, I will fill MY deck with
bruisers and play them myself". I would like to see other objectives become
as popular. Also, the Cermak Blast is WAY under-rated for the toughness of
the bugs (compared to the other two). Its pretty hard, and being only worth
25, its probably not worth it (even with the extra 5 for demlotions.)

Well, thats my point o' view.

----------
> From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
> To: SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
> Date: Sunday, September 14, 1997 8:51 PM
>
> Ok, this week's Card of the Week is actually a set of similar cards:
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Cermak Blast
> Type: Objective
> Description: 25 pts.
> Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face result instead of
> Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Mosquito Spirit 6/6
> (A1); 3-4: Fly Spirit 7/7 (A2); 5-6: Wasp Spirit 8/8 (A3). BONUS: +5
> Reputation if a Runner with Demolition is present at end of shadowrun.
>
> Cleanse the Hive
> Type: Objective
> Description: 40 pts.
> Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead of the
> Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Beetle Spirit 8/8 (A1);
> 3-4: Cicada Spirit 9/9 (A2); 5-6: Ant Spirit 10/10 (A2). Requirements:
> Fight Queen Ant Spirit 11/11 (A3)
>
> Urban Brawl
> Type: Objective
> Rarity: Uncommon
> Description: 35 pts.
> Notes: When the run begins, designate a participating Runner as the
> ball-carrier. Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead
> of the Challenge. 1: Discard Challenge; 2-4: Professional team 7/8
> (A2); 5-6: Unsponsored team 6/7 (A1). Requirements: Ball-carrier must
> be present at end of shadowrun.
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Do you like these cards? Is there a particular strategy you use with
> them in your deck?
>
> I'm of mixed opinions.
>
> On the one hand, I can see a strategy on your part: as long as you
> have heavy hitters in your deck, putting out these objectives will
> mean not having to deal with any of the trickier challenges your
> opponent holds and you can just hammer your way through.
>
> On the other hand, I get a little miffed when I lay out one of these
> and my oponent sends in a gaggle of his "Big Boys. Inevitably I watch
> as the Maglocks, Booby Traps, or Dracofrom I drew and had to put down
> as challenges in his path become a 6/7 (A1) or 8/8 (A2) and are
> summarily slapped around like a red headed step-child. The only one of
> the above three IMHO that even poses a threat is Cleanse the Hive as
> you at least have the Queen with A3 lurking out there.
>
> Personally, I haven't been playing with any of these objectives that
> change a challenge into some sort of "critter" that must be fought. I
> have put together a specific collection of challenges in my deck, with
> certain requirements and abilities. I don't like seeing all the
> challenges on a given objective then come down to a matter of
> kicking-ass.
>
> Anyways, enough prattling from me...anyone else have comments,
> opinions or rants? :o)
>
> ===
> @>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>
>
> Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
> Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
>
> "You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
> --> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
> _____________________________________________________________________
> Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 3
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:12:30 -0400
>Cermak Blast
>Cleanse the Hive
>Urban Brawl

>Do you like these cards?

No.
CtHive is good I'll admit, but the other two just bite.
Especially UB, "Oh that Dracoform just goes away. No bug, no team, just goes
away!?!?!?!"

These cards would be fabulous if they would just allow one small change.
Allow BLUFFS to be turned into critters!
That would be VERY usefull without really making the cards any more
powerful.

If you don't like that rule, then there should at least be an option that
would allow the challenges to remain their original cards.
Maybe pay 2-4 nuyen to keep the challenge the same?

I'd still like to see bluffs turn into BUGS though!!!! ;-)

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Until you find something worth dying for, you're not really living"
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:34:42 -0700
(COWs snipped and pasted to end of post)

> Do you like these cards? Is there a particular strategy you use with
> them in your deck?

The obvious combo is Loaded Dice, of course, so you can aim toward
getting the wimpy critters and stiff your 'pone with the big nasties.

The Reputation values of Cermak Blast and Urban Brawl will probably be
switched in the "Unlimited" edition, given that UB has that silly chance
to eliminate a Challenge completely (sigh). I think Mike has spoken to
this effect already.

Honestly, there really isn't that much an opponent can do to interfere
during these runs, since the Challenge is completely swapped out (not
even a fifty-fifty chance of staying the same, alas). The first
challenge you meet is probably the most important; your 'pone waits for
the die roll, sees if he can GAQ enough runners to get the rest
trashed. No need for figuring out sleaze requirements on these. GAQ
also works perfectly with UB - and more on that one later.

Another good card to have is Bad Lunch (-2/0 to target Runner), a card
which does wonders against anyone with Wired Reflexes. At the very
least, it might weaken the shadowrun team to the point they have to
cancel it.

Which leads us to a third key combo card -- All or Nothing. Suddenly
those brutes -have- to wade through three or more 6/6 (A1)s. Even given
pounders like Flatline (with two Predators, Explosive Rounds, Blazing
Guns and Wired Reflexes - that's, uh, 48 points or so?) there's enough
damage potential that you'll cack at least one runner, or two, or three.

And lastly - this one is just for sheer hoseness: Wait until they've
almost succeeded in the Cleanse the Hive, and then hit them with a
Lofwyr's Schemes (which changes the Objective.) If an Urban Brawl comes
up, they *cannot take the shadowrun*. The ball-carrier is decided when
the run begins, and they've already smashed through three Challenges....

> Cermak Blast
> Type: Objective
> Description: 25 pts.
> Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face result instead of
> Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Mosquito Spirit 6/6
> (A1); 3-4: Fly Spirit 7/7 (A2); 5-6: Wasp Spirit 8/8 (A3). BONUS: +5
> Reputation if a Runner with Demolition is present at end of shadowrun.

> Cleanse the Hive
> Type: Objective
> Description: 40 pts.
> Notes: Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead of the
> Challenge. Treat all Spirits as Awakened. 1-2: Beetle Spirit 8/8 (A1);
> 3-4: Cicada Spirit 9/9 (A2); 5-6: Ant Spirit 10/10 (A2). Requirements:
> Fight Queen Ant Spirit 11/11 (A3)

> Urban Brawl
> Type: Objective
> Rarity: Uncommon
> Description: 35 pts.
> Notes: When the run begins, designate a participating Runner as the
> ball-carrier. Roll D6 for each Challenge and face the result instead
> of the Challenge. 1: Discard Challenge; 2-4: Professional team 7/8
> (A2); 5-6: Unsponsored team 6/7 (A1). Requirements: Ball-carrier must
> be present at end of shadowrun.
Message no. 5
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 21:26:41 -0700
---Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> Ok, this week's Card of the Week is actually a set of similar cards:
>
> Cermak Blast
> Cleanse the Hive
> Urban Brawl
[snipped]

I usually like these, well actually Urban Brawl is the one I most use.
I just got a Cleanse the Hive and I'm not sure if I'm going to use it
yet or not. As you mention, it works to your benefit if you have the
heavy hitters (which I try to do) because you don't have to deal with
whatever your opponent sets out.

As far as defending against it, there is always: Lofwyr's Schemes
and/or Reinforcements. With the combo you can "reset" the objective
and put out a whole new set of challenges. With just the
Reinforcements you can still get 3 more "teams/creatures" out (or 4 in
a 3 player game :-) ). Usually by the end of these runs, the runners
are taking quite a beating. So these extra challenges could make the
difference. Then throw in an All or Nothing and that could be "all
she wrote"...

Forrest
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Message no. 6
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 23:48:49 -0500
At 07:34 AM 9/13/97 -0700, you wrote:

<<snip>>

>The Reputation values of Cermak Blast and Urban Brawl will probably be
>switched in the "Unlimited" edition, given that UB has that silly chance
>to eliminate a Challenge completely (sigh). I think Mike has spoken to
>this effect already.

I have to admit, that was my first reaction as well. Why would UB
be worth extra Rep? I decided that it must be because the 'ball carrier'
must make it all the way through. Your opponent only has to stop *one*
runner from finishing, not the whole team. If you're going to play UB or
Courier run, you should keep the GAQS in your deck too.

<<snip>>

Hg
Message no. 7
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 00:55:47 -0400
At 08:51 PM 9/14/97 -0700, Loki wrote these timeless words:
>Ok, this week's Card of the Week is actually a set of similar cards:

[SOME SNIPPAGE INVOLVED]

>Cermak Blast

>Cleanse the Hive

>Urban Brawl

>Do you like these cards? Is there a particular strategy you use with
>them in your deck?
>
>I'm of mixed opinions.
>
[SNIP LOKIS OPINION... Who wants to see those anyways... :] J/K Lokster:]]

I like tehse... A lot...:]

My biggest complaint is that, as I believe Skuzzy mentioned once, Urban
Brawl and Cermak are, well, backwards... Urban Brawl is way too easy, for
too many rep points, especially compared to Cermak...

But... These are great challenges as they eliminate the need for skills in
your deck, really, though at the same time they do the same for your
opponent... As Loki mentioned, it sucks to have your Dracoform or Maglock
turn into a Bug, but then, if you build a deck to utilize these challenges,
you're not going to be expecting to need too many of these challenges,
except on your opponents Objectives...

One trick taht a lot of people don;t seem to use is to wait until your
obective flips up before putting challenges on your own objective. taht
way you know which ones will be useful and which ones won't. Of course,
this doesn't work with your opponent, but...

Overall, this is the best set of challenges for a deck like Tinners first
deck, a "Piggy" deck... All Orks and Trolls... Who needs Technical
skills, or anything other than combat skills, when all you're doing is
fighting bugs or Urban Brawl teams...

But my favorite Ojectives are still the ones that make Awakened Critters
Bigger or Unsleazable (Operation Up and Over, Critter Hunt, and Amazonian
Hunt.) Much fun to see that Dracoform become a 14/12 :], or that nasty
Manticore become Unsleazable :].

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 8
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:18:42 -0700
> >Cermak Blast
> >Cleanse the Hive
> >Urban Brawl

> >Do you like these cards?

> No.
> CtHive is good I'll admit, but the other two just bite.
> Especially UB, "Oh that Dracoform just goes away. No bug, no team, just goes
> away!?!?!?!"

UB's kinda the stinker of the bunch, but it has that huge loophole: kick
out the ball-carrier (GAQ, in other words) and the run's over. To allow
other challenges to act normally opens up even more options - basically,
any time the owner of the Objective gets to deal damage, you know where
it's going first. And the Elite Security Mages get their potshots in as
well.

> These cards would be fabulous if they would just allow one small change.
> Allow BLUFFS to be turned into critters!
> That would be VERY usefull without really making the cards any more
> powerful.

*Grin*. That's not a skillsoft, that's an an Ant Warrior!

One card I didn't mention in my other post was Blindsided. Makes up for
the Security Consultant being a fleshform.

> If you don't like that rule, then there should at least be an option that
> would allow the challenges to remain their original cards.
> Maybe pay 2-4 nuyen to keep the challenge the same?

Seconded. I admit, it is a nice safety feature, not having to worry
about the big guns or lockout combos, but it's not quite as
interesting.. and it leads to "Big Guy"ism as well. I'm already sick
of hearing how I can make an Attack 50 guy with just four rares (g).
Message no. 9
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:37:30 -0700
> One trick taht a lot of people don;t seem to use is to wait until your
> obective flips up before putting challenges on your own objective. taht
> way you know which ones will be useful and which ones won't. Of course,
> this doesn't work with your opponent, but...

The "Critter Generator" decks also add functionality to guys like the
Security Decker: Recon and you get poofed, encounter him on a run and
you get poofed to. This only works while the Objective is unrevealed,
however.

It seems very difficult, though, to use any of these Objectives with any
other types; you just need to load up on all these heavy guys.

One gripe I'm starting to develop against the Challenges: they all cost
the same. Seen one way, actually, it's cheaper to play a Dracoform
(voted Most Likely to Make Midden from your Remains) than, say, the Lone
Star Patrol, since a defender will most likely pay nuyen to pump up the
cops. This seems to lead toward Big Wallet games, with whoever shelled
out the most money (ie, got the most rares) wins.

Maybe that's just my own gripe. I'll go to bed now.
Message no. 10
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 22:57:08 -0700
---Quicksilver wrote:
>
> >The Reputation values of Cermak Blast and Urban Brawl will probably
be
> >switched in the "Unlimited" edition, given that UB has that silly
chance
> >to eliminate a Challenge completely (sigh). I think Mike has
spoken to
> >this effect already.
>
> I have to admit, that was my first reaction as well. Why
would UB
> be worth extra Rep? I decided that it must be because the 'ball
carrier'
> must make it all the way through. Your opponent only has to stop
*one*
> runner from finishing, not the whole team. If you're going to play
UB or
> Courier run, you should keep the GAQS in your deck too.

This was posted to the list at one time, and is listed in our Game Q&A
as well.

Q. Why is the Cermak Blast objective (which has 3 different insect
spirits) worth only 25 pts, while the less deadly Urban Brawl (with 2
teams and a discard challenge) is worth 35?

A. It's an over sight on our part. And it'll be corrected in the
reprint. Until then just keep using it at it's listed rep pts.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 11
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 02:04:52 -0400
At 08:37 AM 9/13/97 -0700, Matb wrote these timeless words:
>> One trick taht a lot of people don;t seem to use is to wait until your
>> obective flips up before putting challenges on your own objective. taht
>> way you know which ones will be useful and which ones won't. Of course,
>> this doesn't work with your opponent, but...
>
>The "Critter Generator" decks also add functionality to guys like the
>Security Decker: Recon and you get poofed, encounter him on a run and
>you get poofed to. This only works while the Objective is unrevealed,
>however.
>
>It seems very difficult, though, to use any of these Objectives with any
>other types; you just need to load up on all these heavy guys.
>
>One gripe I'm starting to develop against the Challenges: they all cost
>the same. Seen one way, actually, it's cheaper to play a Dracoform
>(voted Most Likely to Make Midden from your Remains) than, say, the Lone
>Star Patrol, since a defender will most likely pay nuyen to pump up the
>cops. This seems to lead toward Big Wallet games, with whoever shelled
>out the most money (ie, got the most rares) wins.
>
>Maybe that's just my own gripe. I'll go to bed now.
>
I have to disagree...

The Draco Form is cheap, but... It's also Unique and gets fragged when it
hits the trash, wether it actually got beat or got around...

Soem of the best objectives are still the commons... Maglocks, for
example. Without a Maglock passkey in one of your runners possesion
(Meaning that you actually bought the issue of Inquest with it and managed
to get it into play), or you ahve a huge amount of technical skill, it's
next to impossible to get past.

Also, there are others that are really tough to beat. Nets, Gut Check, a
Fresh Chomps 2000... the list goes on... Sure, it's nice to beat the shit
out your runners with the big dragon, but sometimes it's more than enough
to simply stop him.

And, even though Tinner has bought a Box of Boosters, plus more cards, I
can still beat him with my 3 Starters and 6 Boosters, plus a few trades...
In fact, I believe he hasn;t beaten me yet... <grin>

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
Fearless Leader of the Star Wars Mailing List
List Flunky of ShadowCreations, creators of the Newbies Guide,
in production now!
HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 12
From: Conrad Mikaelian <MLoki@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 03:19:45 -0400
Personally I think Urban Brawl is a "broken" card. It is the easiest of the
three and worth 35 points. The only difficult thing about UB is that you
have to make sure the ball carrier isn't GAQSed. If I really wanted to
cheese the game than yes I would use them. For heavy hitter decks it's an
easy way to bypass maglocks. but not the only way. ;-) Personnally I use
Amazonian hunt for my big troll deck. It takes care of indoor and vehicle
challanges (inc maglocks and hellish traffic, two of my least favorite) and
it makes awakened beings unsleazable. Of course there's the big nasty at the
end but that just insures that nobody will run on it right away, not a
problem if your running big guys anyway.
Message no. 13
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 08:50:28 +0000
> And lastly - this one is just for sheer hoseness: Wait until they've
> almost succeeded in the Cleanse the Hive, and then hit them with a
> Lofwyr's Schemes (which changes the Objective.) If an Urban Brawl comes
> up, they *cannot take the shadowrun*. The ball-carrier is decided when
> the run begins, and they've already smashed through three Challenges....

ACtually, in the Beta FAQ 2.0, they say that doesn't work.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 14
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 07:52:10 -0500
You wrote:

>
>Soem of the best objectives are still the commons... Maglocks, for
>example. Without a Maglock passkey in one of your runners possesion
>(Meaning that you actually bought the issue of Inquest with it and
managed
>to get it into play), or you ahve a huge amount of technical skill,
it's
>next to impossible to get past.

You mean it is next to impossible to Sleaze. Where is it written that
if you don't guess that number the run is over? All it says is "To
sleaze Maglocks, shadowrunning player must guess the number on the D6."
To me that means that unless you guess that number, you set off alarms,
not that the run is fragged.

>
>Also, there are others that are really tough to beat. Nets, Gut
Check, a
>Fresh Chomps 2000... the list goes on... Sure, it's nice to beat the
shit
>out your runners with the big dragon, but sometimes it's more than
enough
>to simply stop him.
>

I know I prefer the Shadowrun stopping cards as well, frustrates them
and buys me time! (grin) The Runner killers are good, too,
particularly the ones you can target to select the runners you want to
take out.

Argent
Message no. 15
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 09:00:51 +0000
> >Soem of the best objectives are still the commons... Maglocks, for
> >example. Without a Maglock passkey in one of your runners possesion
> >(Meaning that you actually bought the issue of Inquest with it and
> managed
> >to get it into play), or you ahve a huge amount of technical skill,
> it's
> >next to impossible to get past.
>
> You mean it is next to impossible to Sleaze. Where is it written that
> if you don't guess that number the run is over? All it says is "To
> sleaze Maglocks, shadowrunning player must guess the number on the D6."
> To me that means that unless you guess that number, you set off alarms,
> not that the run is fragged.
>
This is covered in the upcoming FAQ as well. They say that there are
two answers....as the card reads, and as they intend. They will be
changing card text, but offer different interpretations for both. I
don't know when they will be posting the new FAQ online though.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 16
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 06:48:52 -0700
---Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
>
> > And lastly - this one is just for sheer hoseness: Wait until
they've
> > almost succeeded in the Cleanse the Hive, and then hit them with a
> > Lofwyr's Schemes (which changes the Objective.) If an Urban Brawl
comes
> > up, they *cannot take the shadowrun*. The ball-carrier is decided
when
> > the run begins, and they've already smashed through three
Challenges....
>
> ACtually, in the Beta FAQ 2.0, they say that doesn't work.
>
>
> Brett Borger
> SwiftOne@***.edu
> AAP Techie
>

What doesn't work? You can't use a Lofwyr's Schemes in this setting?
You can't have an Urban Brawl (or I assume Courier Run as well) as the
new objective since a carrier can't be picked?

Just wondering
Thanks
Forrest
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Message no. 17
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:02:24 +0000
> > > Lofwyr's Schemes (which changes the Objective.) If an Urban Brawl
> comes
> > > up, they *cannot take the shadowrun*. The ball-carrier is decided
> when
> > > the run begins, and they've already smashed through three
> Challenges....
> >
> > ACtually, in the Beta FAQ 2.0, they say that doesn't work.
>
> What doesn't work? You can't use a Lofwyr's Schemes in this setting?
> You can't have an Urban Brawl (or I assume Courier Run as well) as the
> new objective since a carrier can't be picked?

You can choose it as the new objective, but the Objective can still
be fulfilled. They don't specify whether you need to declare the
ball-carrier/courier when the new objective is chosen, or if there
isn't one. I'd go with choose then.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 18
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 10:15:53 -0700
---Tony Rabiola wrote:
>
> You mean it is next to impossible to Sleaze. Where is it written
that
> if you don't guess that number the run is over? All it says is "To
> sleaze Maglocks, shadowrunning player must guess the number on the
D6."
> To me that means that unless you guess that number, you set off
alarms,
> not that the run is fragged.

It's covered in the soon-to-be-released FASA FAQ 2.0 that Jim Nelson
gave me:

MAGLOCKS
Maglocks was intended to stop a shadowrun if not sleazed.
However, the card text doesn't accurately reflect this. We intend to
change the card so that it works as it was originally intended to. The
answers below are correct for the text currently on the card, but we'd
prefer that you use the card as it was intended to be used.

What happens if I fail to sleaze Maglocks?
The alarm is triggered and Maglocks is trashed.

What if the alarm is already triggered when Maglocks is revealed?
Is Maglocks trashed?
Yes.

For those of you who would prefer to use the card as it was
intended to work, the revised card text appears below. We strongly
encourage you to use the card as it was intended (otherwise it's sort
of a "glorified" Flock of Geese).
The owner of Maglocks must choose a number from 1 to 6 and place
a D6 under his hand showing that number. The shadowrunning player must
guess the number on the D6. He may make X+1 guesses. X = Technical
rating of the shadowrunning team. If number is guessed, the shadowrun
continues and Maglocks is trashed. If the number is not guessed, the
shadowrun is over.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
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Message no. 19
From: Tim Scott <typhoeus@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:03:46 -0700
----------
> From: Conrad Mikaelian <MLoki@***.COM
Personally I use Amazonian hunt for my big troll deck. It takes care
of indoor and vehicle
challenges (inc maglocks and hellish traffic, two of my least favorite)
and
it makes awakened beings unsleazable.

Oh, come now :-) Hellish Traffic is just normal. Any rigger worth his
beans should sleaze it :) Trolls just a little to high on the brawn to
figure out hellish traffic. Yeesh, you'd think they could walk over it!

Seriously, I really think UB is cheesy and not in the spirit of the
other challenges. The only one even close to worth it is Cleanse the
Hive. I think all three are good for Saeder Krupp to take and get off
the board.
Tim
Message no. 20
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 17:00:32 -0400
At 07:52 AM 9/15/97 -0500, Tony Rabiola wrote these timeless words:
>You wrote:
>
>>
>>Soem of the best objectives are still the commons... Maglocks, for
>>example. Without a Maglock passkey in one of your runners possesion
>>(Meaning that you actually bought the issue of Inquest with it and
>managed
>>to get it into play), or you ahve a huge amount of technical skill,
>it's
>>next to impossible to get past.
>
>You mean it is next to impossible to Sleaze. Where is it written that
>if you don't guess that number the run is over? All it says is "To
>sleaze Maglocks, shadowrunning player must guess the number on the D6."
>To me that means that unless you guess that number, you set off alarms,
>not that the run is fragged.
>
Bad wording on the card... Don;t take it so literallly...:]

And that was how I was taught that maglocks worked during teh Demo Games,
so I tend to trust how the Demo guys at gen COn taught me how to play,
since they were fairly official and all...:]

And since Skuzzy was there a day or two looking over their shoulders...;]

>>Also, there are others that are really tough to beat. Nets, Gut
>Check, a
>>Fresh Chomps 2000... the list goes on... Sure, it's nice to beat the
>shit
>>out your runners with the big dragon, but sometimes it's more than
>enough
>>to simply stop him.
>>
>
>I know I prefer the Shadowrun stopping cards as well, frustrates them
>and buys me time! (grin) The Runner killers are good, too,
>particularly the ones you can target to select the runners you want to
>take out.
>
Yup... Plus those fun ones that do damage to a single runner, especially
if that damage is AP (Hell Hound, Basilisk, Manticore, etc. :))

Bull
--
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Message no. 21
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 04:11:49 -0700
> > > Lofwyr's Schemes (which changes the Objective.) If an Urban Brawl
> > > comes up, they *cannot take the shadowrun*. The ball-carrier is decided
> > > when the run begins, and they've already smashed through three
> > > Challenges....

> > ACtually, in the Beta FAQ 2.0, they say that doesn't work.

> What doesn't work? You can't use a Lofwyr's Schemes in this setting?
> You can't have an Urban Brawl (or I assume Courier Run as well) as the
> new objective since a carrier can't be picked?

You can use Lofwyr's Schemes, but if it coems up UB or Courier Run, the
group achieves the shadowrun. Thppppht. I imagine this happens without
choosing a "ballbearer", or else you could GAQ it.
Message no. 22
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:34:50 -0700
> >One gripe I'm starting to develop against the Challenges: they all cost
> >the same. Seen one way, actually, it's cheaper to play a Dracoform
> >(voted Most Likely to Make Midden from your Remains) than, say, the Lone
> >Star Patrol, since a defender will most likely pay nuyen to pump up the
> >cops. This seems to lead toward Big Wallet games, with whoever shelled
> >out the most money (ie, got the most rares) wins.

> >Maybe that's just my own gripe. I'll go to bed now.

> I have to disagree...

> The Draco Form is cheap, but... It's also Unique and gets fragged when it
> hits the trash, wether it actually got beat or got around...

This is what happens when I don't own the card in question. Bleagh. I
must go memorize the spoiler list.. But honestly, getting fragged isn't
much, since there's nothing to grab Objectives from the trash (yet)
except recycling, and we all know how quickly that happens.

But it's a design.. design quirk, yes, that's it. Since all the
Challenges are priced the same, they have to be evenly balanced against
each other. That's easy for the basic set, but becomes more and more
difficult as time goes on.

Looked from a certain angle, the equation is made that the Security
Mages + (?) 6Y = Dracoform - Unique, Frag. (Or, in other words, that
getting fragged and being unique is a 6-point Flaw.) I suppose if
someone spent enough time at it, they could crack the "code" behind
assigning toughness to the Challenges. I was going to when I designed
my subby, but then I decided to go for completely different effects than
basic damage...

-Matt
Message no. 23
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:42:54 -0500
>
>MAGLOCKS
> Maglocks was intended to stop a shadowrun if not sleazed.
>However, the card text doesn't accurately reflect this. We intend to
>change the card so that it works as it was originally intended to. The
>answers below are correct for the text currently on the card, but we'd
>prefer that you use the card as it was intended to be used.
>
> What happens if I fail to sleaze Maglocks?
> The alarm is triggered and Maglocks is trashed.
>
> What if the alarm is already triggered when Maglocks is revealed?
>Is Maglocks trashed?
> Yes.
>
> For those of you who would prefer to use the card as it was
>intended to work, the revised card text appears below. We strongly
>encourage you to use the card as it was intended (otherwise it's sort
>of a "glorified" Flock of Geese).
> The owner of Maglocks must choose a number from 1 to 6 and place
>a D6 under his hand showing that number. The shadowrunning player must
>guess the number on the D6. He may make X+1 guesses. X = Technical
>rating of the shadowrunning team. If number is guessed, the shadowrun
>continues and Maglocks is trashed. If the number is not guessed, the
>shadowrun is over.
>

That makes Maglock MUCH more difficult to deal with, particularly since
the only way to sleaze it is by guessing (or the Maglock Passkey, I am
assuming)

Argent
Message no. 24
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:41:42 -0700
---Tony Rabiola wrote:
>
> That makes Maglock MUCH more difficult to deal with, particularly
since
> the only way to sleaze it is by guessing (or the Maglock Passkey, I
am
> assuming)

I like Fastjack's tech of 4 on Maglocks...five guesses. "I'll take
numbers 2-6, thank-you."

"Oh wait, Tinkerbell's on the run too! OK, give me number 1 as well."
:o)

Don't forget Steamroller and Crash tend to slap Maglocks around. Then
there's chipjacks and the Tech skillsoft (Uncle Joe with a couple of
Tech gives you 3 guesses - 50% chance right there).

Main thing I use Maglocks for isholding off Caric's Big Brute deck.
:o)

-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 25
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [COW] Challenge replacing Objectives
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 11:47:12 -0500
>>
>Bad wording on the card... Don;t take it so literallly...:]
>
>And that was how I was taught that maglocks worked during teh Demo
Games,
>so I tend to trust how the Demo guys at gen COn taught me how to play,
>since they were fairly official and all...:]
>
>And since Skuzzy was there a day or two looking over their
shoulders...;]
>

Silly me, taking the card as written. Yeah, I saw the
"how-it-is-supposed-to-be-played" errata item, and that works as long
as everyone is aware of it.

>>>Also, there are others that are really tough to beat. Nets, Gut
>>Check, a
>>>Fresh Chomps 2000... the list goes on... Sure, it's nice to beat
the
>>shit
>>>out your runners with the big dragon, but sometimes it's more than
>>enough
>>>to simply stop him.
>>>
>>
>>I know I prefer the Shadowrun stopping cards as well, frustrates them
>>and buys me time! (grin) The Runner killers are good, too,
>>particularly the ones you can target to select the runners you want
to
>>take out.
>>
>Yup... Plus those fun ones that do damage to a single runner,
especially
>if that damage is AP (Hell Hound, Basilisk, Manticore, etc. :))
>

When the hounds bay, when basilisks scream, when I'm feeling sad,
I just remember a few of my favorite things, and then I don't feel
so bad....

(grin)

Argent

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