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Message no. 1
From: Dennis Shea <LordBurger@***.COM>
Subject: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 03:58:51 -0500
okay, here goez.

1. Drive By. Special. 3$ Turn runner you control with piloting to inflict
3 damage on any runner in play.

Is this card dealing the damage to the target runner, or is the runner turned
dealing the damage??? question arose when someone played the card bad
reputation: target player who just attacked an opponent's runner looses 10
reputation. Does the playing of this card count as attacking or is it
similar to riots, where all runners in play take 2 damage. Or would this BE
considered attacking, would riots be considered attacking??? Help a brotha
out.

2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord Torgo, and tempest,
or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents turns. Does
the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???

3. Can runners say during there opponents turn, visit locations? Or after a
shadowrun, can you visit locations and use runners special abilities?? All
those familiar with Magic, and all "at the end of your turn" spells or
effects, like icy's and such, does this work similar in Shadowrun CCG?? Can
i for instance: Archie your unturned runner at the end of your turn??

4. On the last page of the Shadowrun CCG rule book it says that when a run
is intercepted, the run ends after combat and for all purposes the runners
surviving the combat are considered to have pulled out. Cards like Green
Apple Quicksteps, or (GAQ) and Wild Goose Chase does count as the runners
pulling outm right? This theory if correct leads to a new deck strategy and
theme, that will make gameplay as well as the FUN of the game go downhill.
Here's what i mean.

You all have two of my friends (Doug and Bill) to thank for this one.

Construct your deck basically with some of the following cards:

4 wild goose chase (all go home)
4 GAQ (one go home)
4 cowards (just got GAQ, loose some)
4 bad reputation (just Wanted my rocker, loose some more)
3 Rush Job (I make you run, and loose your runners, and Rep. STRONG!)
2 bounty hunters (pulled out did you, or GAQ'd ya, little ones die!)
1 troll bouncer (if you play one, i gain some)
1 False Mentor (if ya have one)
2 johnson's (get the money makers quick)
2 Squatters (love hellish traffic every turn)
4 LOTI (NO!)
4 Glitz Rocker (mad money)
4 Thrash Rocker (mo money)
4 Krogmantis (big money man)
1 Cherry Bomb (sorry local, not here)
2 Lucky Wabbits Foot (what did that try to do?)

As for challanges (20), play ones that end runs, like chomps, hellish
traffic's, maglocks, and other ones that are big, and pumpable, mage strike
force works well. Remember, with squatter, you can get them back. This deck
generates mad amounts of neuyen, so you can pay for it no problem.

Basic Game play: Get out rockers and krogmantis asap, get neuyen. Any time
they attack your runners (Wanted especially) make them loose 10 rep. via bad
reputation. When they run, they must get to your objectives, make them sites
of power and the door if ya have it, so they need big runners, or play 2
amazonian hunts, and 4 sucker runs.
Use GAQ to make them loose the big runner from the run, and then the little
ones die from your challenges, or GAQ the runner who can slease your
challenge. If they should get to your or their objective, Wild goose chase
them, and then bounty hunter away. Take out the small runners. Use squatter
to get back a hellish traffic when ya need to keep em from getting to one of
the objectives, and with all the loose reputation cards, they will fall to
the negatives very fast. keep em there. This deck shuts down the opponents
game fast, and if they do get a whole lot of rep, they will loose it, and
then there's no rep to get, and the game ends in a stalemate. Im not all for
this deck, it needs work, but is really cheesey. with enough thought into
it, it can be a cheese monster. the squatter hellish traffic lock is bad,
and eventually the objectives have run out, and then there's no rep to get,
boo hoo. This shows the degenerate possibilities of this game.

With only 75 points a must for a win, and you must have a total of 75 points
on objectives in your deck, loosing rep makes for a long game, and
eventually, when all the rep is gone, the game is a draw. False mentor is
the key. Do it when you can back it up with a LOTI and make sure it gets
off. Take there rep. hopefully from a big run, and keep it. they will have
a difficult time getting 75 rep, and you will just make them sit there and
watch you win, Cheese in the house!!

This is not a message for people to construct this deck, but an example of
how Cheesey games can be. Magic is the KING OF THE CHEESE, i am a player,
and all those who remember my Winter ORB lock, or the BROWSE you to death
decks get the idea. Please help to get the game to stray away from the
cheese, and stay a fun game people will play.

Dennis Shea
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 1997 19:46:35 -0700
Dennis Shea wrote:

> okay, here goez.

> 1. Drive By. Special. 3$ Turn runner you control with piloting to inflict
> 3 damage on any runner in play.

> Is this card dealing the damage to the target runner, or is the runner turned
> dealing the damage??? question arose when someone played the card bad
> reputation: target player who just attacked an opponent's runner looses 10
> reputation. Does the playing of this card count as attacking or is it
> similar to riots, where all runners in play take 2 damage. Or would this BE
> considered attacking, would riots be considered attacking??? Help a brotha
> out.

I've always played it that Bad Reputation only affects Runner-on-Runner
combat. However, the card does read "Target *player*...", so this
implies that any sort of damage is a valid excuse for Bad Reputation.

I don't agree with that opinion. Riots and Drive-By are already
limiting - you hurt your own Runners in one, turn a specific type of
Runner in the second - and the other forms of direct damage (Tempest
comes to mind) are in their own ways already restricted in some manner.
Leaving it to Runner-on-Runner combat still leaves quite a number of
cards open to be affected, as well as Intercepts.

> 2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord Torgo, and tempest,
> or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents turns. Does
> the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???

Unless the ability is specified that it can only be played during your
turn (Ice Queen, for example), Runner abilities are meant to be played
in a Stingerish fashion.

In the description for Recon, however, it specifies to turn a Runner
during the Legwork phase of the Runner's owner's turn.

> 3. Can runners say during there opponents turn, visit locations? Or after a
> shadowrun, can you visit locations and use runners special abilities?? All
> those familiar with Magic, and all "at the end of your turn" spells or
> effects, like icy's and such, does this work similar in Shadowrun CCG?? Can
> i for instance: Archie your unturned runner at the end of your turn??

You may only visit locations during the Legwork phase of the game
(regardless of whose Legwork phase it is, perhaps), so you may not visit
a Location after your shadowrun.

See above for the special abilities. For the *really* nasty, you might
be able to pull of turning an opponent's Runner after they've unturned
during the Refresh phase, but before they can turn to heal.

> 4. On the last page of the Shadowrun CCG rule book it says that when a run
> is intercepted, the run ends after combat and for all purposes the runners
> surviving the combat are considered to have pulled out. Cards like Green
> Apple Quicksteps, or (GAQ) and Wild Goose Chase does count as the runners
> pulling outm right? This theory if correct leads to a new deck strategy and
> theme, that will make gameplay as well as the FUN of the game go downhill.
> Here's what i mean.

If a Runner fails to get to the Objective for any reason, he or she has
pulled out. Yes, the Bounty Hunter *is* really, really nasty sometimes.

> You all have two of my friends (Doug and Bill) to thank for this one.

> Construct your deck basically with some of the following cards:

(clip)

The big problem with this deck: How do you do anything yourself? Okay,
you can lock out your opponent, but when your toughest guy is a 6/7,
you're not going to get very far yourself.

I won't go into full deck criticism mode (thank goodness), but here's
what to do:

When you realize someone's built a degenerate deck - when you hear it's
the only thing he's played in a week - wait for him to challenge you to
a duel.. er play a game.. and say, brightly, "Sure!"

Sit down. Shuffle cards. Take your first turn: Draw, lay your cards
down flat, and say, "You win!"

After the first or second time, they'll get the idea.



-Mb
Message no. 3
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 13:25:08 -0500
>Construct your deck basically with some of the following cards:

<SNIP Really Lame Deck idea>

>Use GAQ to make them loose the big runner from the run, and then the
little
>ones die from your challenges, or GAQ the runner who can slease your
>challenge.

You're making the false assumption that there is only ONE big guy, or only
ONE gut that can sleaze the challenge. The key to make a winning deck is
REDUNDANCY!
You have to max the odds of getting the best cards, so you need 4 of each of
the "necessary" cards.
Since very few runners are unique, there's nothing to stop me from having 4
of them in play.

>With only 75 points a must for a win, and you must have a total of 75
points
>on objectives in your deck, loosing rep makes for a long game, and
>eventually, when all the rep is gone, the game is a draw. False mentor is
>the key. Do it when you can back it up with a LOTI and make sure it gets
>off. Take there rep. hopefully from a big run, and keep it. they will
have
>a difficult time getting 75 rep, and you will just make them sit there and
>watch you win, Cheese in the house!!

The only problem with LotI is that your opponent can use them as well, Lucky
Wabbit's Foot too ...
Sorry, this deck IMO sucks wind, I have yet to play against a deck that
couldn't beat this deck.
For that matter, a smart player could beat this load of crap with a starter
deck.

Nothing is unbeatable.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com/users/bluewizard
"Imagine how much faster Speed Racer would have been without Spridle and the
monkey in his truck!"
Message no. 4
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 01:58:48 -0500
At 03:58 AM 10/27/97 -0500, Dennis Shea wrote these timeless words:
>okay, here goez.
>
>1. Drive By. Special. 3$ Turn runner you control with piloting to inflict
>3 damage on any runner in play.
>
>Is this card dealing the damage to the target runner, or is the runner turned
>dealing the damage??? question arose when someone played the card bad
>reputation: target player who just attacked an opponent's runner looses 10
>reputation. Does the playing of this card count as attacking or is it
>similar to riots, where all runners in play take 2 damage. Or would this BE
>considered attacking, would riots be considered attacking??? Help a brotha
>out.
>
I would say that Drive By is considered an attack, but don;t wuote me on
that. After all, the runner you turn has to have piloting, so that means
he was Doing the Driving, at the very least.

Riots, on the other hand, isn;t something that your runners are doing. It
just represents a random riot (Which can be a common event in a world like
Shadowrun) and affects everyone.

>2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord Torgo, and tempest,
>or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents turns. Does
>the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???
>
They can play their ability at any time. Recon may be the only exception
to this, but only if the book says it can only be used on your own turn.

>3. Can runners say during there opponents turn, visit locations? Or after a
>shadowrun, can you visit locations and use runners special abilities?? All
>those familiar with Magic, and all "at the end of your turn" spells or
>effects, like icy's and such, does this work similar in Shadowrun CCG?? Can
>i for instance: Archie your unturned runner at the end of your turn??
>
Most effects like this must be used during your legwork phase.

Visiting Locations is DEFINATELY in the RBT as During Your Legwork Phase.
It also lists Visiting Locations on the little Turn Summary Card taht comes
in the Starter Decks as a "Legwork Phase" action.

YOu may use Archie at any time though...

[SNIP Cheese Deck]

Trust me, that deck is just FULL of holes big enough to drive a
Yellowjacket AND a Bulldog through...:]

Shadowrun does a good job of balanceing itself out...:]

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 08:48:22 -0800
---Dennis Shea <LordBurger@***.COM> wrote:
>
> okay, here goez.
>
> 1. Drive By. Special. 3$ Turn runner you control with piloting
to inflict
> 3 damage on any runner in play.
>
> Is this card dealing the damage to the target runner, or is the
runner turned
> dealing the damage??? question arose when someone played the card bad
> reputation: target player who just attacked an opponent's runner
looses 10
> reputation. Does the playing of this card count as attacking or is it
> similar to riots, where all runners in play take 2 damage. Or would
this BE
> considered attacking, would riots be considered attacking??? Help a
brotha
> out.

Anytime a runner is involved in dealing damage to another runner it
counts as attacking that other person. So yes, Bad Rep could be used
on a Cruve By but it couldn't be used on something like a Riots.

> 2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord Torgo, and
tempest,
> or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents
turns. Does
> the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???

Yes and yes.

> 3. Can runners say during there opponents turn, visit locations?
Or after a
> shadowrun, can you visit locations and use runners special
abilities?? All
> those familiar with Magic, and all "at the end of your turn" spells or
> effects, like icy's and such, does this work similar in Shadowrun
CCG?? Can
> i for instance: Archie your unturned runner at the end of your turn??

No, Contacts and Locations my only be used during your own Legwork
phase unless they specifically state otherwise. Also, going on a
Shadowrun is immediately followed by the End of Turn phase. You can't
do any Legwork phase specific activities at this time.

> 4. On the last page of the Shadowrun CCG rule book it says that
when a run
> is intercepted, the run ends after combat and for all purposes the
runners
> surviving the combat are considered to have pulled out. Cards like
Green
> Apple Quicksteps, or (GAQ) and Wild Goose Chase does count as the
runners
> pulling outm right? This theory if correct leads to a new deck
strategy and
> theme, that will make gameplay as well as the FUN of the game go
downhill.

This comes from our Game Q&A of FASA responses:

Q. Bounty Hunter-can you use it whenever a runner leaves a run, for
whatever reason? Barney Phyffe, Green Apple, or even if they just fall
into the Nets or can't get past the Maglock?

A. Bounty Hunter can be used whenever a Runner pulls out of a run (for
any reason) before taking the Objective.

** It is for this very reason that Elven Hitman has been tucked into
each deck I put together. ;o)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 10/20/97
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Message no. 6
From: "J.P Haworth" <jhaworth@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 1997 16:17:10 -0500
Loki wrote: > 2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord
Torgo, and

> tempest,
> > or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents
> turns. Does
> > the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???
>
> Yes and yes.

Actually I believe the rulebook states on pg 30 that recon can only be
used 'during the legwork phase of the runner's owner's turn.

Redman
Message no. 7
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: dA LorDZ 2nD QueSTiOn LIst aNd CheeSE DEcK IdEa
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 11:19:58 -0800
---"J.P Haworth" <jhaworth@*******.COM> wrote:
>
> Loki wrote: > 2. Runners special abilities, ie: Archie McDeven, Lord
> Torgo, and
>
> > tempest,
> > > or Runners with Recon, can their ability be played on opponents
> > turns. Does
> > > the ability count as a stinger for timing rules and such???
> >
> > Yes and yes.
>
> Actually I believe the rulebook states on pg 30 that recon can only be
> used 'during the legwork phase of the runner's owner's turn.

With Recon you're right, and I should have noted that. I'm referring
to special abilities in a Runner's card text (Archie, Tempest, Lord
Torgo, ...) not the keyword abilities (Recon, Biotech, Guard, ...)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 10/20/97
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