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Message no. 1
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 14:04:14 -0500
Four interesting questions came up today, as I used Deckers and Fuchi
Industries to demolish my opponent's deck.

1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including Hermit
Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)". Does
this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on a
Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners go
on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording doesn't
make it clear.

2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer) to
attack a decker that is turned?

3. Deckers can use programs, other than Sticky Fingers, at any point in
the game. Using programs does not make them turn. So, can I wait until
my opponent's Refresh phase, and promptly announce that I will use Black
Hammer to pummel his decker? Or do I have to wait and see what my
opponent is planning to do? I guess the question comes down to this: is
there a break between Refreshing and a runner doing something (visiting
a location, doing a Recon). My feeling is that I could attack right
after the refresh phase.

4. Hatchetman 2057 and Hatchetman. Hatchetman 2057 is a Prime Runner.
Can Hatchetman 2057 be in play while a Hatchetman is in play? My guess
is yes.

Thanks!

Teos.
Message no. 2
From: Jyster !!! <jyster007@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 13:33:57 PST
>Four interesting questions came up today, as I used Deckers and Fuchi
>Industries to demolish my opponent's deck.
>
>1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including Hermit
>Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
>Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)".
Does
>this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
>turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on a
>Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners go
>on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording doesn't
>make it clear.


Actually the wording is perfect. It says visit Fuchi instead
of going on a Shadowrun. Whats so hard about this text? Webster New
World Dictionary words instead of: in place of. Got it!!


>2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer) to
>attack a decker that is turned?
>
>3. Deckers can use programs, other than Sticky Fingers, at any point
in
>the game. Using programs does not make them turn. So, can I wait
until
>my opponent's Refresh phase, and promptly announce that I will use
Black
>Hammer to pummel his decker? Or do I have to wait and see what my
>opponent is planning to do? I guess the question comes down to this:
is
>there a break between Refreshing and a runner doing something (visiting
>a location, doing a Recon). My feeling is that I could attack right
>after the refresh phase.


THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN PHASES LIKE MAGIC!!!. This isnt magic timing.
You have to turn your program when you use it. You would have to
attack him during the legwork phase.


>4. Hatchetman 2057 and Hatchetman. Hatchetman 2057 is a Prime Runner.
>Can Hatchetman 2057 be in play while a Hatchetman is in play? My guess
>is yes.


YES, Hatchetman is not unique so you can have up to 4 of him plus
1 Hatchetman 2057.


>Thanks!
>
>Teos.
>



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Message no. 3
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:10:45 -0500
So, apparently you woke up on the wrong side of the bed today. Sorry to
waste your time. Maybe someone else can give my question a shot? I have
clarified below, as well as offering some insight into why I think
Jyster's response was inappropriate. I will not comment on this further
except via private mail if approached via private mail. -Teos.

> ----------
> From: Jyster !!![SMTP:jyster007@*******.COM]
>
> >1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including Hermit
> >Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
> >Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)".
> Does
> >this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
> >turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on
> a
> >Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners
> go
> >on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording
> doesn't
> >make it clear.
>
> Actually the wording is perfect. It says visit Fuchi instead
> of going on a Shadowrun. Whats so hard about this text? Webster New
> World Dictionary words instead of: in place of. Got it!!
>
Aside from Jyster thinking I'm a moron that hasn't read a dictionary,
the text says "Deckers" "may visit" "instead of going on a
Shadowrun".
This doesn't seem simple. If Deckers can visit instead of going on a
shadowrun, then others on the shadowrunning team can go on a shadowrun
as usual. This reading would tell me that I can make money from Fuchi
and attempt to win points off of a shadowrun, which is a very big
advantage. I'm not trying to be an ass by asking this question. Last I
checked, this list has no guidelines for what I can talk about as long
as it is on-topic. Therefore, my question was appropriate. I even
checked all the FAQs to see if my question had been answered. The list,
however, has the following guideline:

"4.B Flaming
As a general guideline, DON'T. Giving advice, and correcting someone is
one thing, going off on a torque because you don't agree is another
thing. Honey works better than vinegar. "

> >2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer)
> to
> >attack a decker that is turned?
> >
> >3. Deckers can use programs, other than Sticky Fingers, at any point
> in
> >the game. Using programs does not make them turn. So, can I wait
> until
> >my opponent's Refresh phase, and promptly announce that I will use
> Black
> >Hammer to pummel his decker? Or do I have to wait and see what my
> >opponent is planning to do? I guess the question comes down to this:
> is
> >there a break between Refreshing and a runner doing something
> (visiting
> >a location, doing a Recon). My feeling is that I could attack right
> >after the refresh phase.
>
> THERE IS NO IN BETWEEN PHASES LIKE MAGIC!!!. This isnt magic timing.
> You have to turn your program when you use it. You would have to
> attack him during the legwork phase.
>
I don't play Magic, so I wouldn't understand the comparison or the
nature of your shouting, but thanks for attempting an answer. All I
know is that people on this list talk about pauses and breaks all the
time, such as the break between when a challenge is revealed and when
the combat begins, which is apparently (as I have heard on this list)
why you can play GAQS after a challenge has been revealed. I am not
trying to flame Jyster or troll either. I'm looking for a real
explanation of why I am missing this. Jyster, if you can calm down and
write something to expand on what you are talking about, I would
appreciate it. If anyone else can explain, I appreciate this as well.
Trust me, wasting your time is not my reason for posting. Any flames
should be via personal mail. I run a role-playing listserver, I have
been on e-mail lists for the last 7 years, and I do not see how I
violated anything in the list FAQ. If I have, please point this out via
personal mail. Frankly, I was surprised at the tone Jyster took in the
reply to the previous post, and i like the response to my post even
less. I would appreciate a clarification on this by Loki, via personal
mail. I frankly don't have time to decide what might or might not cause
someone to loose their cool. Therefore, I ask that the list monitor
take action against flames, as appropriate.
Message no. 4
From: Mamoulian <shine@************.NET>
Subject: Re: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:31:19 -0700
At 02:04 PM 12/3/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Four interesting questions came up today, as I used Deckers and Fuchi
>Industries to demolish my opponent's deck.
>
>1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including Hermit
>Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
>Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)". Does
>this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
>turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on a
>Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners go
>on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording doesn't
>make it clear.

I would play it that the deckers cannot go on a Shadowrun...but anyone else
could.

>2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer) to
>attack a decker that is turned?
>
Sure...this is the grandness to having the deckers being able to use an
amount of progams equal to his decking. The backshot of it is if you use
programs like armor skin to help defend yourself. If you have turned it,
you can get hit by another decker with the same blackhammer program.

>3. Deckers can use programs, other than Sticky Fingers, at any point in
>the game. Using programs does not make them turn. So, can I wait until
>my opponent's Refresh phase, and promptly announce that I will use Black
>Hammer to pummel his decker? Or do I have to wait and see what my
>opponent is planning to do? I guess the question comes down to this: is
>there a break between Refreshing and a runner doing something (visiting
>a location, doing a Recon). My feeling is that I could attack right
>after the refresh phase.

You could, according to the rules, if a conflict comes up(like the other
person then decides they are going to attack you) then they could use their
card first.
>
>4. Hatchetman 2057 and Hatchetman. Hatchetman 2057 is a Prime Runner.
>Can Hatchetman 2057 be in play while a Hatchetman is in play? My guess
>is yes.

Yuppers...any except prime runners(example: no two Dodgers in play)
>Thanks!
>
>Teos.
>
>
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 10:14:51 -0800
---"Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM> wrote:
>
> Four interesting questions came up today, as I used Deckers and Fuchi
> Industries to demolish my opponent's deck.
>
> 1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including Hermit
> Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
> Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)".
Does
> this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
> turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on a
> Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners
go
> on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording doesn't
> make it clear.

This if an iffy one. I could go both ways on it. However, in the
spirit of the game I'd say using Fuchi forgoes you having a Shadowrun
phase that turn.

> 2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer) to
> attack a decker that is turned?

I believe attack programs like Black Hammer are to be only used during
your own Legwork phase. (Kinda like playing a Wanted or Bar Fight.)

> 3. Deckers can use programs, other than Sticky Fingers, at any
point in
> the game. Using programs does not make them turn.

For the most part, yes.

> So, can I wait until
> my opponent's Refresh phase, and promptly announce that I will use
Black
> Hammer to pummel his decker? Or do I have to wait and see what my
> opponent is planning to do? I guess the question comes down to
this: is
> there a break between Refreshing and a runner doing something
(visiting
> a location, doing a Recon). My feeling is that I could attack right
> after the refresh phase.

See above, as I believe the attack would have to be performed during
your own turn.

> 4. Hatchetman 2057 and Hatchetman. Hatchetman 2057 is a Prime
Runner.
> Can Hatchetman 2057 be in play while a Hatchetman is in play? My
guess
> is yes.

Yes, you could have H-man 2057 and up to four "vanilla" H-men out at a
given time. (8 vanilla's if your opponent also had four on the table.
:o)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 12/3/97

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Message no. 6
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Decker combat and Fuchi Industries
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 08:49:51 -0500
> ----------
> From: Loki[SMTP:daddyjim@**********.COM]
>
> ---"Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM> wrote:
> > 1. Fuchi Industries: It says "One or more Deckers (including
> Hermit
> > Deckers) may visit Fuchi Industries instead of going on a Shadowrun.
> > Turn Visiting Deckers and roll D6 (+1 for each point of Decking)".
> Does
> > this mean I turn to Fuchi instead of having a Shadowrun during that
> > turn? Or does it mean turn to Fuchi instead of the Deckers going on
> a
> > Shadowrun that turn. (i.e. if I have Static, and four other runners
> go
> > on a Shadowrun, can Static go to Fuchi instead?). The wording
> doesn't
> > make it clear.
>
> This if an iffy one. I could go both ways on it. However, in the
> spirit of the game I'd say using Fuchi forgoes you having a Shadowrun
> phase that turn.
>
I think most people on the list (while disagreeing on what the card
says) agree that the best (balanced) way to play the card is that you
forgo sending other runners on a Shadowrun.

> > 2. Decker combat: Can deckers use programs (such as Black Hammer)
> to
> > attack a decker that is turned?
>
> I believe attack programs like Black Hammer are to be only used during
> your own Legwork phase. (Kinda like playing a Wanted or Bar Fight.)
>
Actually, Matb picked up that this is in the FAQ. You can use all
programs except Sticky Fingers at any point, so I think the consensus on
the list is that a decker can use an attack program during another
player's turn, and a decker can attack a decker that is turned.


Thanks for responding about the flames, Loki. I agree with your
comments. Constructive criticism is always better than destructive, and
it is best to keep any questionable e-mails to personal mail.

Teos.

Further Reading

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Thwap!