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Message no. 1
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 15:35:22 -0700
Robert Thomas wrote:

> Also, I have not seen many places carry Shadowrun cards, even those
> places that carry multiple different types of card games. I hope that
> does not bode ill for the game. I do know of a few places that carry the
> cards still, but I figure if I cannot find the cards in an area it will
> be hard to find people to play there.

Hmm. What would you think about an Ambassador-type system for FASA --
basically, volunteers who love the game and are willing to demo it go
out and earn prizes and Reputation for themselves. We'd need a cool
game, and a way of keeping track of people involved, and some cool promo
stuff...

Myself, I tend to buy cards in bulk over the internet now - there's just
no way I'd buy at retail anymore - and I honestly suspect the numer of
direct sales like that is only going to grow, which spells hard times
for any local retailer.

> My hope is that Origins and Dragon Con can bring interest to those who
> have not seen it before. That way more people will be out there to play
> against.

Don't forget GenCon, which'll be full-circle for this baby.

> Maybe I have just not been in the right places, but I have not seen any
> of the Second Run decks or cards yet. Have they not been put out?

Second Run is an interesting situation; originally it simply reprinted
and updated the First Run, with about forty or fifty cards being swapped
out for various reasons. It's been bumped back several times; with
Underworld and the upcoming Corp War release, they've got new cards to
integrate into the set and somehow make it all balance and 'feel'
right. Not always easy.


- Matt

------------------------------------
Quid gignitur ex hyaena et psittaco?
Animal uiribus ridendi in ioca sua eximum.

GridSec: SRCard / Freedonian Research Assistant
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 2
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 09:19:48 -0400
At 03:35 PM 6/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Robert Thomas wrote:
>>Also, I have not seen many places carry Shadowrun cards, even those
places that carry >>multiple different types of card games. I hope that
does not bode ill for the game. I >>do know of a few places that carry the
cards still, but I figure if I cannot find the >>cards in an area it will
be hard to find people to play there.

>Hmm. What would you think about an Ambassador-type system for FASA --
basically, >volunteers who love the game and are willing to demo it go out
and earn prizes and >Reputation for themselves. We'd need a cool game, and
a way of keeping track of people >involved, and some cool promo stuff...

As you mentioned Matt, with you buying from the net instead of retail, why
should stores carry a game that does not really sell as well as other games
like Magic? I mentioned this before, and like before, not one person
followed up on it - sometimes I think people are a bit 'afraid' of hurting
FASA's feelings or something. But going on my personal experiences, when I
was searching for the Underworld expansion, all the stores that previous
sold the First Run, except two (one retail chain), none of them were going
to carry any further expansions because the First set sold squat for them.
I did not like seeing that because it seems to say the game might slowly
die. So how would I push a game onto retailers that are set not to sell a
game? Money talks... and I think you would know the rest of the phrase.

<Snipped various cons...>


>Second Run is an interesting situation; originally it simply reprinted and
updated the >First Run, with about forty or fifty cards being swapped out
for various reasons. It's >been bumped back several times; with Underworld
and the upcoming Corp War release, >they've got new cards to integrate into
the set and somehow make it all balance and >'feel' right. Not always easy.
>- Matt

Here is a thought to ponder - though a game like Magic is infamous for
releasing expansion upon expansion, do you think the slow, drawn out
approach SRTCG is going will be a boom or a bust over time? Yes, I would
prefer quality over quantity, but just say for a moment that here is a
brand new person looking to get into a card game. Looking over the various
titles, what do you think their initial reaction would be seeing a wide
selection of cards with Magic written on them compared to seeing two sets
with Shadowrun on them? Then add in all the other various card games to
the mix.

I wonder what my comrade-in-arms Brad is up to these days.....
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 3
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 22:06:46 +0200
>>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< wrote:
>
> At 03:35 PM 6/23/98 -0700, you wrote:
> >Robert Thomas wrote:
> >>Also, I have not seen many places carry Shadowrun cards, even those
> places that carry >>multiple different types of card games. I hope that
> does not bode ill for the game. I >>do know of a few places that carry the
> cards still, but I figure if I cannot find the >>cards in an area it will
> be hard to find people to play there.
>
> >Hmm. What would you think about an Ambassador-type system for FASA --
> basically, >volunteers who love the game and are willing to demo it go out
> and earn prizes and >Reputation for themselves. We'd need a cool game, and
> a way of keeping track of people >involved, and some cool promo stuff...
>
> As you mentioned Matt, with you buying from the net instead of retail, why
> should stores carry a game that does not really sell as well as other games
> like Magic? I mentioned this before, and like before, not one person
> followed up on it - sometimes I think people are a bit 'afraid' of hurting
> FASA's feelings or something. But going on my personal experiences, when I
> was searching for the Underworld expansion, all the stores that previous
> sold the First Run, except two (one retail chain), none of them were going
> to carry any further expansions because the First set sold squat for them.
> I did not like seeing that because it seems to say the game might slowly
> die. So how would I push a game onto retailers that are set not to sell a
> game? Money talks... and I think you would know the rest of the phrase.
>
> <Snipped various cons...>
>
> >Second Run is an interesting situation; originally it simply reprinted and
> updated the >First Run, with about forty or fifty cards being swapped out
> for various reasons. It's >been bumped back several times; with Underworld
> and the upcoming Corp War release, >they've got new cards to integrate into
> the set and somehow make it all balance and >'feel' right. Not always easy.
> >- Matt
>
> Here is a thought to ponder - though a game like Magic is infamous for
> releasing expansion upon expansion, do you think the slow, drawn out
> approach SRTCG is going will be a boom or a bust over time? Yes, I would
> prefer quality over quantity, but just say for a moment that here is a
> brand new person looking to get into a card game. Looking over the various
> titles, what do you think their initial reaction would be seeing a wide
> selection of cards with Magic written on them compared to seeing two sets
> with Shadowrun on them? Then add in all the other various card games to
> the mix.
>
I can tell you what my reaction was (coming into card games only last
year): "Oh my god. I like to collect complete sets. Now I can choose
between collecting 3000+ Magic cards, or about 400 Shadowrun cards and
then expanding gradually. I take SR." Of course there were other factors
like friendsī advice and RPG type preference also, but the sheer amount
of different, and very expensive, Magic cards really appalled me.
---Felix
Message no. 4
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 16:43:13 +0000
> From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
> Subject: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)

> Hmm. What would you think about an Ambassador-type system for FASA --
> basically, volunteers who love the game and are willing to demo it go
> out and earn prizes and Reputation for themselves. We'd need a cool
> game, and a way of keeping track of people involved, and some cool promo
> stuff...

I talked to Jill about this at Origins last year. I do that kind of
stuff for Atlas Games (on the edge, lunch money) and suggested that
she look into it. Unfortunately, I never really followed up on it,
not that she really has a lot of time in her schedule to squeeze it
in anyway.


--Droopy
Message no. 5
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 03:04:55 -0700
>>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< wrote:

> As you mentioned Matt, with you buying from the net instead of retail, why
> should stores carry a game that does not really sell as well as other games
> like Magic?

Because I do about three demos a month? :) I'm not the *only* consumer
out there, and occasionally I guilt someone into splurging on a few
boosters, starters and display cases. But, personally speaking, *my*
pocket can't stretch enough to allow random purchases, so everything I
buy comes from the net, at absolute lowest cost.

> I mentioned this before, and like before, not one person
> followed up on it - sometimes I think people are a bit 'afraid' of hurting
> FASA's feelings or something. But going on my personal experiences, when I
> was searching for the Underworld expansion, all the stores that previous
> sold the First Run, except two (one retail chain), none of them were going
> to carry any further expansions because the First set sold squat for them.
> I did not like seeing that because it seems to say the game might slowly
> die. So how would I push a game onto retailers that are set not to sell a
> game? Money talks... and I think you would know the rest of the phrase.

Demo, demo, and more demo. Write articles if you're shy. Shadowrun
*has* stayed in Inquest's Top Ten for over a year, so there's customers
in them thar hills somewhar.

> <Snipped various cons...>

> Here is a thought to ponder - though a game like Magic is infamous for
> releasing expansion upon expansion, do you think the slow, drawn out
> approach SRTCG is going will be a boom or a bust over time?

Although FRPG's 'Rolling Thunder' release system certainly has its
supporters, I can't say that it's inherently a positive thing. I've
often found with the larger sets you can go back and find - hey! - a
card you'd once overlooked is actually pretty decent.

Perhaps more importantly, FASA *should* be cautious before it adopts the
'monthly mini' system, simply on the grounds that it's FRPG's baby; if
FASA makes a decision, it has to be done because it's FASA's choice -
not because someone else has been successful doing it. I know Mike, I
know Jim; they're tigers.

> Yes, I would
> prefer quality over quantity, but just say for a moment that here is a
> brand new person looking to get into a card game. Looking over the various
> titles, what do you think their initial reaction would be seeing a wide
> selection of cards with Magic written on them compared to seeing two sets
> with Shadowrun on them? Then add in all the other various card games to
> the mix.

Then again, there's something to be said for *not* flooding the market.
While MtG sells, it's also got a very large number of critics, simply
because so many of its cards are re-hashes. I think there's a lot of
strength to the Shadowrun universe, a *wealth* of concepts out there; it
could probably do a bit better, so long as it doesn't overextend itself.

I've also found that with the smaller-quicker releases, people tend to
still refer to them as part of a larger set, so the individuality of
each set is reduced sharply. Not *terribly* important, except for
pride-of-ownership reasons.

> I wonder what my comrade-in-arms Brad is up to these days.....

So do I, for different reasons.

So, uh, what did we all do that we're not comrades ourselves? I mean, I
know what *you* do (snicker) that makes me feel less-than-comradely
towards ya, but I don't know how I (or anyone/everyone else) got the big
blow-off for.


- Matt

------------------------------------
Quid gignitur ex hyaena et psittaco?
Animal uiribus ridendi in ioca sua eximum.

GridSec: SRCard / Freedonian Research Assistant
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 6
From: Rob Alexander <AceRob1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA Ambassadors? (was: Re: Second Run)
Date: Tue, 23 Jun 1998 18:03:08 EDT
> I can tell you what my reaction was (coming into card games only last
> year): "Oh my god. I like to collect complete sets. Now I can choose
> between collecting 3000+ Magic cards, or about 400 Shadowrun cards and
> then expanding gradually. I take SR." Of course there were other factors
> like friendsī advice and RPG type preference also, but the sheer amount
> of different, and very expensive, Magic cards really appalled me.
> ---Felix

Well, I came in about two weeks ago, and the Magic cards really turned me off
from that. I mean, true, you probably can't collect them all, though that
would possibly be a good thing, because more trading would ensue. Also, the
huge variety of the Magic cards kind of made me shiver. Just collecting SR
cards, I've at first ran across a good many I couldn't use at all, being only
for Yakuza, Mafia, Lone Star, etc. and not having any of those cards. You're
more likely to run into problems like that in huge sets of cards.

Ace
(New to SR and proud of it!)

Further Reading

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Thwap!