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Message no. 1
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:17:34 -0800
Here's the second part Jim sent me on his Sotc and CS answer.


~!~!~!~!~!

I was just thinking about the reply I sent you re: Cement Shoes and
State of Confusion and I don't think I'd play it out as I said, so
please ignore that last e-mail. Obviously, the explanation I gave
could lead to possible abuse of the card (ie: targeting a low-cost
Runner with Cement Shoes and then redirecting it to a high-cost Runner).

I want to think about this some more, so that I can make a fair (and
wise) ruling. Sorry…

Jim N.

~!~!~!~!~!

-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 2
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 11:30:50 -0600
At 09:17 AM 3/29/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Here's the second part Jim sent me on his Sotc and CS answer.
>
>
>~!~!~!~!~!
>
>I was just thinking about the reply I sent you re: Cement Shoes and
>State of Confusion and I don't think I'd play it out as I said, so
>please ignore that last e-mail. Obviously, the explanation I gave
>could lead to possible abuse of the card (ie: targeting a low-cost
>Runner with Cement Shoes and then redirecting it to a high-cost Runner).
>
>I want to think about this some more, so that I can make a fair (and
>wise) ruling. Sorry…
>
>Jim N.

Now please keep in mind that I have yet to play with the cards, but my
take would be as follows:

Someone plays the Cement Shoes on Cannonball and pays the necessary ¥ to
off a 6¥ runner. Now someone plays SoC and has to pick a *valid* target. I
would rule that a valid target would be any runner that costs 6¥ or less.
Although,if you wanted to get sticky about it you could limit it to any
other runner who costs exactly 6¥.

JMO,
Hg
Warning: This message contains my opinions.
I've been wrong before....
....I'll be wrong again.
Message no. 3
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 00:53:24 +0200
Loki wrote:
>
> Here's the second part Jim sent me on his Sotc and CS answer.
>
> ~!~!~!~!~!
>
> I was just thinking about the reply I sent you re: Cement Shoes and
> State of Confusion and I don't think I'd play it out as I said, so
> please ignore that last e-mail. Obviously, the explanation I gave
> could lead to possible abuse of the card (ie: targeting a low-cost
> Runner with Cement Shoes and then redirecting it to a high-cost Runner).

Possibly Cement Shoes should be errataŽd to redirect the played Special
onto a randomly chosen Runner. IMHO "valid" means simply a turned
Runner. ---Felix
Message no. 4
From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:33:50 -0500
At 12:53 AM 3/30/98 +0200, you wrote:

<Snipped FASA's Cement Shoes comment...>

>Possibly Cement Shoes should be errata´d to redirect the played Special
onto a randomly >chosen Runner. IMHO "valid" means simply a turned Runner.
---Felix

Why not just errata the Cement Shoes card to target an opponent's runners?
Therefore, the only way the tables can be turned would be through cards
like State of Confusion. It would cut out all this targeting one's own
runners then switching sides with the above SoC card. Plus, if you were
working for someone, as the runners per se are for the real life players,
would you be willing to work for someone that ordered to have you wear
special shoes before changing his/her/it's mind to another?

To clarify this some more before something is read into this. Using my old
example of 'real life' names, Jon/Mugsy paid Axlrose and Gumbo to take out
Loki. As Jim Nelson said before altering his view, the amount is paid out,
spent, whatever = gone! Because Jon/Mugsy is targeting his opponent, this
would be legal. Now Loki wants to save himself/his runner card so he plays
SoC on Axlrose and Gumbo to redirect us, errr the mafia runners back
towards Jon/Mugsy's characters - choosing Mugsy himself. It should not
matter Mugsy is 2 Nuyen cheaper (or 2 Nuyen higher or even payment). The
amount has already been paid; it is now the affect that is being redirected
with State of Confusion. The Cement Shoes card is brought into play
already. Let us not get more confused by "Well, considering I paid X
amount and now Y amount is spent, I am entitled to a refund..." or "Geesh,
I don't have enough to pay for the new cost of Cement Shoes so I will just
not use it this turn."

I think too many are getting too tied up with the exact wording of the
cards instead of the intended feel of the cards. Like with many of my card
ideas from the past, though they are wordy and would never fit all onto a
card, it is the feel I want to portray. We should stop trying to be so
precise and calculated in every possible combination of cards just because
the card might or might not insinuate what the original authors' intended.

My view on the whole,
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 5
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 03:27:29 +0200
>>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< wrote:
>
> At 12:53 AM 3/30/98 +0200, you wrote:
>
> <Snipped FASA's Cement Shoes comment...>
>
> >Possibly Cement Shoes should be errataŽd to redirect the played Special
> onto a randomly >chosen Runner. IMHO "valid" means simply a turned
Runner.
> ---Felix
>
> Why not just errata the Cement Shoes card to target an opponent's runners?
> Therefore, the only way the tables can be turned would be through cards
> like State of Confusion. It would cut out all this targeting one's own
> runners then switching sides with the above SoC card.

Actually, I meant SoC to be redirected. Boy, this card-confusing is
becoming a habit... :] ---Felix
Message no. 6
From: OneWay919 <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] CS and SoC (part 2)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 1998 02:45:03 EST
About this Cement Shoes and State of Confusion thing...I'm still wondering why
everybody is trying to kill off their own runners, the idea of the card is to
frag YOUR OPPONENT so why should you be killing off your own poor little
Static so the State of Confusion can play to do in your opponent.....this is
supposed to be a fun GAME

well that's just my take on the subject, let's not think too hard on these
cards they are rather simple to understand if you just don't read to much into
them.

OneWay919

Further Reading

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These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

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