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Message no. 1
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 03:45:49 -0600
At 01:31 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Here's a email I just got from Skuzzy on the FASA sanctioned tourney
>rules. He wanted me to pass them on so they can glean some feedback.

Too Cool!

>Sounds like he's really happy with the list, and I'm glad we're
>recognized as a concentrated source of info.
>
>I'm also excited that I've made it into the ranks of those represented
>by an SRTCG card. All right, I'm a runner! You can bet when Underworld
>hits the shelves I'll be trading for all those Loki cards I can. (I
>need to ask if it's a common, uncommon or rare...)

Congratulations (he said with a jealous frown) ;)

<< snippage >>

Please let us know what you think of the tourney rules. Talk
>to ya soon!

I am happy to see that we are getting some 'Official' tournament formats
to play with.
He asked, so here are my 2 nuyen worth...

>> "Brawl in the Sprawl"
>> Type: Multi-player, Multi-round, scored play, timed
>> Number of players: Any, Minimum of eight.

- Likes -
* Varied Play Format - One of the things I like best is the differences in
interaction when the numbers of players vary. (Four player is my preference)
* Flexible Participation - I like the idea of being able to easily run a
tournament no matter what the attendence.
* Timed Rounds - makes planning much easier, especially if the tournament
is part of a larger event or convention.
- Dislikes: -
* First Round Knock-Outs - A Biggie with me. As a tournament coordinator I
feel uncomfortable asking/expecting people to play in a tournament only to
end up kicking half of them out after the first round. Just a personal
preference.
- Questions -
* First Round - 50 Rep in an hour? - In the tournaments we've run, we set a
target of 70 points and a time of 40-45 minutes per round, and people
regularly hit that score - even with 3-4 players at the table and limiting
Media Chick to one nuyen per run. At fifty points, the first objective run
with a media chick watching can end the game.
* Second Round? - With a allowed minimum participation of 8 players, four
will advance to the second round - and then the same four will play the
third round.
* Saeder Krupp - Why can't it win the game? Tournament advancement isn't
based on rounds won, just the number of rep accumulated. Letting Saeder
Krupp win wouldn't affect that, would it? (I honestly haven't played with
SK, so maybe I'm missing something)
* Nuyen? - I'm confused on just when the nuyen and runner values are
used/added in. (Ok, so it doesn't take much to confuse me <g>).
* Nuyen Bonus - As someone else mentioned, it sounds like a heck of an
advantage.

<< snippage of description, see earlier posts >>

>> "The Duel"
>> Type: One-on-One, scored play, timed, Three rounds
>> Number: Any, Even Numbered

- Likes -
* see Flexible Participation and Timed Rounds above
- Dislikes -
* Round Robins - Personal preference only. I've seen too many events where
people drop out early due to low scores. At some of the larger events, they
just disappear without even telling you. This can be frustrating for the
tournament organizers who have to scramble to reassign tables. In this
case, it could be a real problem if you ended up with an odd number of
players left.
* Extra Paperwork/Math - Not a biggie, but is there some way we could do
away with the 5-1/10-1 calculations? For instance, will it matter if comes
down to a difference of 2.4 reputation or 24 nuyen?

<< snippage of description, see earlier posts >>

Hope this helps. I look forward to participating in future events,
whatever form they finally take. I just hope I can get some practice in
before I get to Gen-Con next year :).

Stick to the shadows,
Hg

Standard Disclaimer: The above are just my opinions. I have been wrong
before, I will be wrong again.
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:52:52 -0800
---Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM> wrote:
>
> At 01:31 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
> >Here's a email I just got from Skuzzy on the FASA sanctioned tourney
> >rules. He wanted me to pass them on so they can glean some feedback.
>
> Too Cool!
> > Please let us know what you think of the tourney rules. Talk
> >to ya soon!
>
> I am happy to see that we are getting some 'Official'
tournament formats
> to play with.
> He asked, so here are my 2 nuyen worth...

And keep it coming. They said they wanted feedback, so I'm collecting
everything you guys have to say and passing it along to Jim and Skuzzy.

I just cut and pasted the four or five posts I got this morning and
sent them up. It's this kind of input that helps them make the game
what we want.

Keep it up. :o)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98

_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 3
From: MLoki <MLoki@***.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:53:02 EST
<<
>> "The Duel"
>> Type: One-on-One, scored play, timed, Three rounds
>> Number: Any, Even Numbered

- Likes -
* see Flexible Participation and Timed Rounds above
- Dislikes -
* Round Robins - Personal preference only. I've seen too many events where
people drop out early due to low scores. At some of the larger events, they
just disappear without even telling you. This can be frustrating for the
tournament organizers who have to scramble to reassign tables. In this
case, it could be a real problem if you ended up with an odd number of
players left.
* Extra Paperwork/Math - Not a biggie, but is there some way we could do
away with the 5-1/10-1 calculations? For instance, will it matter if comes
down to a difference of 2.4 reputation or 24 nuyen?
>>

The tourney we are planning to run in February will have a similiar format
except; The rounds are divided into 3-4 person tables, 4 person preferred, 3
when necessary. This should cut down on the number of problems created when
people drop out. It also brings it away from the 2 person games which I
sincerely do not like. Rep is added throught the rounds and the top four
after (set) rounds will have a play off.
Message no. 4
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:01:40 -0600
At 12:53 PM 1/24/98 EST, you wrote:
><<
> >> "The Duel"
> >> Type: One-on-One, scored play, timed, Three rounds
> >> Number: Any, Even Numbered
>
>The tourney we are planning to run in February will have a similiar format
>except; The rounds are divided into 3-4 person tables, 4 person preferred, 3
>when necessary. This should cut down on the number of problems created when
>people drop out. It also brings it away from the 2 person games which I
>sincerely do not like. Rep is added throught the rounds and the top four
>after (set) rounds will have a play off.

Where is this tournament?

<Warning: most people either love or hate the following idea>
We've been doing something with our tournaments that you may wish to
consider. We advance the top 3 players (as determined by accumulated rep)
and also allow one other player to 'sleaze' their way in by randomly
drawing from all other players. Accumulated points do not carry to the
final round but the person who sleazed their way in is given a
disadvantage. This seems to keep people around even if they haven't been
doing as well as the big winners.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
Hg
Message no. 5
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 11:07:04 -0600
On 01/24/98 03:45:49 you wrote:
>
>At 01:31 PM 1/23/98 -0800, you wrote:
>>Here's a email I just got from Skuzzy on the FASA sanctioned tourney
>>rules. He wanted me to pass them on so they can glean some feedback.
>
> Too Cool!
>
>>Sounds like he's really happy with the list, and I'm glad we're
>>recognized as a concentrated source of info.
>>
>>I'm also excited that I've made it into the ranks of those represented
>>by an SRTCG card. All right, I'm a runner! You can bet when Underworld
>>hits the shelves I'll be trading for all those Loki cards I can. (I
>>need to ask if it's a common, uncommon or rare...)
>
> Congratulations (he said with a jealous frown) ;)
>
> << snippage >>
>
> Please let us know what you think of the tourney rules. Talk
>>to ya soon!
>
> I am happy to see that we are getting some 'Official' tournament formats
>to play with.
> He asked, so here are my 2 nuyen worth...

I have to echo most of these comments and concerns, but with the following additions.

>
>>> "Brawl in the Sprawl"
>>> Type: Multi-player, Multi-round, scored play, timed
>>> Number of players: Any, Minimum of eight.
>
> - Likes -
>* Varied Play Format - One of the things I like best is the differences in
>interaction when the numbers of players vary. (Four player is my preference)
>* Flexible Participation - I like the idea of being able to easily run a
>tournament no matter what the attendence.
>* Timed Rounds - makes planning much easier, especially if the tournament
>is part of a larger event or convention.
> - Dislikes: -
>* First Round Knock-Outs - A Biggie with me. As a tournament coordinator I
>feel uncomfortable asking/expecting people to play in a tournament only to
>end up kicking half of them out after the first round. Just a personal
>preference.

I agree. Why can't there be a losers bracket for those knocked out in the first round,
and
those top two players go against the top two players in the winners bracket, or something
similar. Sucks to sign up and set aside six hours at a convention then be sitting there
for
five hours cause you were knocked out early.

> - Questions -
>* First Round - 50 Rep in an hour? - In the tournaments we've run, we set a
>target of 70 points and a time of 40-45 minutes per round, and people
>regularly hit that score - even with 3-4 players at the table and limiting
>Media Chick to one nuyen per run. At fifty points, the first objective run
>with a media chick watching can end the game.

Yep. I think the unbalancing effect of Media Chick has to be addressed in a tournament
setting;
I can see lots of abuses otherwise.

>* Second Round? - With a allowed minimum participation of 8 players, four
>will advance to the second round - and then the same four will play the
>third round.
>* Saeder Krupp - Why can't it win the game? Tournament advancement isn't
>based on rounds won, just the number of rep accumulated. Letting Saeder
>Krupp win wouldn't affect that, would it? (I honestly haven't played with
>SK, so maybe I'm missing something)
>* Nuyen? - I'm confused on just when the nuyen and runner values are
>used/added in. (Ok, so it doesn't take much to confuse me <g>).

Why not just keep track of them and use them as tie breakers as needed, rather than adding
them
into the score?

>* Nuyen Bonus - As someone else mentioned, it sounds like a heck of an
>advantage.

A big one. Does that many Nuyen really make a difference compared to who goes first??

>
> << snippage of description, see earlier posts >>
>
>>> "The Duel"
>>> Type: One-on-One, scored play, timed, Three rounds
>>> Number: Any, Even Numbered
>
> - Likes -
>* see Flexible Participation and Timed Rounds above
> - Dislikes -
>* Round Robins - Personal preference only. I've seen too many events where
>people drop out early due to low scores. At some of the larger events, they
>just disappear without even telling you. This can be frustrating for the
>tournament organizers who have to scramble to reassign tables. In this
>case, it could be a real problem if you ended up with an odd number of
>players left.
>* Extra Paperwork/Math - Not a biggie, but is there some way we could do
>away with the 5-1/10-1 calculations? For instance, will it matter if comes
>down to a difference of 2.4 reputation or 24 nuyen?

Agreed.



Argent

Rabiola@**.netcom.com
Argent - Elven Fixer Extrodinaire
It was hot, the night we burned Chrome...
Message no. 6
From: "Abadia, Teos" <Teos.Abadia@****.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 15:06:37 -0500
I was thinking about our concerns about the first round elimination
currently in the rules. One way to do it would be to have the second
round include these "eliminated players". I'm thinking of college
basketball, and how lower ranked teams are matched with the stronger
teams. You could add up the rep totals. Then take the highest rep
earner and match them with the lowest rep earner and the two middle rep
earners. Next highest would match with the next lowest and the two now
in the middle of the pack. This would be repeated. This would mean
that the last groups assigned would actually be very close in terms of
skills, while the strongest players would be rewarded for a strong first
round.

Teos.
Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [FASA] Official tourney rules
Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 16:38:00 -0800
Abadia, Teos wrote:

(snip)

Teos, would you mind if I stea^H^H^H^H borrow that idea? I've got a
brief something or other I'm working on for a sort of
tournament-campaign thing.

-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl

SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

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