Back to the main page

Mailing List Logs for ShadowRN

Message no. 1
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 02:32:36 EDT
TOURNAMENT RULES



Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and
multi)



1. Min. 60 decks.
2. No proxy's
3. English cards only.
4. Colored sleeves are legal
5. Players can cut other players cards.
6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or DÉJÀ VU to modify
your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their first
turn.
8. All games are to 60 rep.
9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4 you
better have 6 more objectives.
10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with the
most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have LOTI
or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that caused
Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!


There it is… not too bad aye?? If you have ?'s about the rules, e-mail me
asap. Gencon is right around the corner.


Gabe " the talkin mime"

Official Fasa Judge: Shadowrun CCG
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 07:27:03 -0700
---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
>
> Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and
> multi)
>
> 1. Min. 60 decks.
> 2. No proxy's

What's meant by a proxy?

> 3. English cards only.
> 4. Colored sleeves are legal
> 5. Players can cut other players cards.
> 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or DÉJÀ VU to
modify
> your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.

Interesting idea. I like it.

> 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their first
> turn.
> 8. All games are to 60 rep.
> 9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4 you
> better have 6 more objectives.
> 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with the
> most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have LOTI
> or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.

No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?

> 11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that caused
> Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
> 12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!

Of course. :o)

Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess they're
legal, just annoying.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 3
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:12:39 -0400
At 07:27 AM 7/30/98 -0700, Loki wrote these timeless words:
>---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
>>
>> Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and
>> multi)
>>
>> 1. Min. 60 decks.
>> 2. No proxy's
>
>What's meant by a proxy?
>
Probably the standard Photocopied card in a sleeve or a common with LORD
TORGO written acrossed it cause someone doesn;t want their precious rare
getting beat up through play (or they don;t own it in the first place).
n with the
>> most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have
LOTI
>> or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
>
>No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?
>
Man, make sure this rule is known WAY in advance so that everyone playing
has a chance to make adjustments... I'd have a stack of Even STevens and
Bounty hHUnters in my deck If I could play. I KNOW what media chick can do
in a three round, 45 minute round rournament like this...

>Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess=
they're
>legal, just annoying.
>
THey can be dealt with fairly easily... <shrug> Annoying yes, but... :]

One question... Are the Objectives going to recycle after you go through
them? A good deck can easily cycle through 6 objectives, and despite a
common misconception, Objectives do NOT recycle normally :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604


========================
==========================
=======
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =

========================
==========================
=======

"We come from Stucco Village, where we bake bread
and play tether ball all day!"
-- A really weird scene from Trinity, the 3 AM version
Message no. 4
From: "Droopy ." <mmanhardt@*****.NET>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 16:54:27 -0400
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)

> > 2. No proxy's
>
> What's meant by a proxy?

Its a card that represents another card that you either don't own or
don't wish to play with (was a problem in magic with the $200
cards.)

> > 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or
DÉJÀ VU to modify
> > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
>
> Interesting idea. I like it.

I liked it too when I first saw it in the tournament rules. Dunno how
often it would come up though.

> > 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person
with the
> > most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you
have LOTI
> > or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
>
> No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?

The games are being played to 60 rep, aren't they? If so, the
media chick isn't that powerfull a card, unlike the Origins
tournament where my friend totally broke it.


--Droopy
Message no. 5
From: Noah Overton <NOAH_OVERTON@*************.OM.HP.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:00:44 -0700
<snip> scroll down far if you need to see the rest.

7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card the=
ir
first turn.

what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up with a=

rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i dont=

see why you should penalize the player that is going first. now if =
the
rule is that if you use a card to help win the who-goes-first-roll=
,
then you dont get the eight card but other wise it seems to me to b=
e a
really bad rule.

puckstpr


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________=
________
Subject: gencon tournament rules (official)
Author: Non-HP-Brakiss187 (Brakiss187@***.COM) at HP-PaloAlto,mimegw2
Date: 7/29/98 11:32 PM


TOURNAMENT RULES



Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and=

multi)



1. Min. 60 decks.
2. No proxy's
3. English cards only.
4. Colored sleeves are legal
5. Players can cut other players cards.
6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or D+J+ VU to mod=
ify
your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their fi=
rst
turn.
8. All games are to 60 rep.
9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4 y=
ou
better have 6 more objectives.
10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with =
the
most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have =
LOTI
or D+J+ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that cau=
sed
Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!


There it isà not too bad aye?? If you have ?'s about the rules, e-mai=
l me
asap. Gencon is right around the corner.


Gabe " the talkin mime"

Official Fasa Judge: Shadowrun CCG
Message no. 6
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:23:14 -0400
At 02:00 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Noah Overton wrote these timeless words:
> <snip> scroll down far if you need to see the rest.
>
> 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
> first turn.
>
> what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up with a
> rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
> suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i dont
> see why you should penalize the player that is going first. now if the
> rule is that if you use a card to help win the who-goes-first-roll,
> then you dont get the eight card but other wise it seems to me to be a
> really bad rule.
>
It's a holdover from Magic. It's become a fairly standard Magic tourney
rule because in Magic, going first is a huge advantage. Basically, if you
win the coin toss/dice roll, you get to "Play or Draw", to some extent
eliminating teh hug advantage that going first in magic can have.

In Shadowrun, though, since you can;t do a whole lot until at least second
turn, I think the rule, wile interesting, is unnecessary, and kinda
penalizes you for going first, rather than balancing anything...

<shrug>

But it's not that huge a deal...

BTW: Noah, please snip stuff you aren;t replying to, and place your
answers below the old message... :]

Bull
--
Bull -- The Best Ork Decker You Never Met
chaos@*****.com ===== bull22@***********.com
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604

=======================================================
= =
= Order is Illusion! Chaos is Bliss! Got any Fours? =
= =
=======================================================

"We come from Stucco Village, where we bake bread
and play tether ball all day!"
-- A really weird scene from Trinity, the 3 AM version
Message no. 7
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:29:05 +0200
Loki wrote:
>
> ---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and
> > multi)
> >
> > 1. Min. 60 decks.
> > 2. No proxy's
>
> What's meant by a proxy?

A proxy´s a card with a different card´s text written on it by hand, or
a piece of paper in the sleeve to represent a card. People use these if
they don´t own or want to play with certain Rare cards.

>
> > 3. English cards only.
> > 4. Colored sleeves are legal
> > 5. Players can cut other players cards.
> > 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or DÉJÀ VU
to modify
> > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
>
> Interesting idea. I like it.

How would a LotI influence a die roll? I think you meant Loaded Dice.
>
> > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their first
> > turn.
> > 8. All games are to 60 rep.
> > 9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4 you
> > better have 6 more objectives.
> > 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with the
> > most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have LOTI
> > or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
>
> No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?
>
> > 11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that caused
> > Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
> > 12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!
>
> Of course. :o)
>
> Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess they're
> legal, just annoying.
>
And killing the game´s spirit. ---Felix
Message no. 8
From: "norman.wierer" <norman.wierer@*******.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 20:40:12 -0500
Loki,

A proxy card is when you use one card to represent another. The proxy card
usually has the card it is representing written on it. I usually use them
in friendly games to either protect a valuable card (it is available for
display if they want to see it) or I use proxy cards to test out new decks
to see if I really need the cards.

Norman

----------
> From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
> To: SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET
> Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 1998 9:27 AM
>
> ---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single
and
> > multi)
> >
> > 1. Min. 60 decks.
> > 2. No proxy's
>
> What's meant by a proxy?
>
> > 3. English cards only.
> > 4. Colored sleeves are legal
> > 5. Players can cut other players cards.
> > 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or DÉJÀ VU
to
modify
> > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
>
> Interesting idea. I like it.
>
> > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
first
> > turn.
> > 8. All games are to 60 rep.
> > 9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4
you
> > better have 6 more objectives.
> > 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with
the
> > most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have
LOTI
> > or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
>
> No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?
>
> > 11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that
caused
> > Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
> > 12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!
>
> Of course. :o)
>
> Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess
they're
> legal, just annoying.
>
> -== Loki ==-
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
> SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
> Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
> SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 9
From: Gunnar Lundquist <OneWay919@***.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:04:33 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-30 17:25:55 EDT, you write:
7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
> first turn.
>
> what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up with a
> rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
> suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i dont
> see why you should penalize the player that is going first.
<< >
It's a holdover from Magic. It's become a fairly standard Magic tourney
rule because in Magic, going first is a huge advantage. Basically, if you
win the coin toss/dice roll, you get to "Play or Draw", to some extent
eliminating teh hug advantage that going first in magic can have.

In Shadowrun, though, since you can;t do a whole lot until at least second
turn, I think the rule, wile interesting, is unnecessary, and kinda
penalizes you for going first, rather than balancing anything...
>>

Sorry to do this Bull but I gotta agree with Noah here I personally don't care
to give up my draw..hell I forget it enough on my own...and my second thought
on this subject is that this isn't Magic and I feel using those rules does
SRCCG an injustice

My 2,
Gunnar
OneWay919@***.com
Message no. 10
From: Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:50:06 -0500
>7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
>> first turn.
>>
>> what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up with a
>> rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
>> suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i dont
>> see why you should penalize the player that is going first.

In the two tournaments I have played in, we played it the with the
above ruling. However, I just went my handy dandy online rulebook
and after reading it, I cannot come up with a logical reason for it
(other then Bull's magic-holdover reasoning).

In M:TG the logic was that the upkeep/draw phase was skipped the first
1/2 turn. However, in SRTCG you take part in the first two phases
(ie Objective and Credstick Phase) but skip the Refresh Phrase.

I really don't see it as being a major disadvantage though. I think
it is well worth not drawing a card to play my Humanis Policlub Member
before my opponent gets a chance to play Stomper on his first turn...

In magic losing a card was a major disadvantage and going first was a
major advantage. In SR losing a card is a minor disadvantage (as I
think that everyone will draw up their hands to 7+1 during the course
of the game) and going first is only a minor advantage as there are only
a few useful things you can do that first turn.



--
Phil Jaros 888888888
chakan@************.com O=O=O=O=O
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 11
From: Brett Francis <slq0m@**.USU.EDU>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:42:33 -0600
Bull wrote:
> At 02:00 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Noah Overton wrote these timeless words:
> > <snip> scroll down far if you need to see the rest.
> >
> > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
> > first turn.
> >
> > what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up with a
> > rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
> > suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i dont
> > see why you should penalize the player that is going first. now if the
> > rule is that if you use a card to help win the who-goes-first-roll,
> > then you dont get the eight card but other wise it seems to me to be a
> > really bad rule.
> >
> It's a holdover from Magic. It's become a fairly standard Magic tourney
> rule because in Magic, going first is a huge advantage. Basically, if you
> win the coin toss/dice roll, you get to "Play or Draw", to some extent
> eliminating teh hug advantage that going first in magic can have.
>
> In Shadowrun, though, since you can;t do a whole lot until at least second
> turn, I think the rule, wile interesting, is unnecessary, and kinda
> penalizes you for going first, rather than balancing anything...

IMO going first in ShadowRun is almost a penalty buy itself. You can't
earn any rep in the first round when you are first. You can only play
challenges on one objective (yours).

Secondly, If you're going to let people use deja vu and LotI to affect
who starts, why not loaded dice? I don't really like this rule though,
as the game hasn't started, why should anybody be able to play cards.

I probably will never play a tournament in my life, but I think if any
game should be
fair, it would be those games.

A few last questions: Do players take their turns according to the
beginning die rolls? When time runs out, is it ensured that everyone
had the same number of turns?

Brett
Message no. 12
From: Olaf Kramer <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 19:47:15 +0200
Felix Hoefert schrieb:
> Loki wrote:
> >
> > ---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
> > >
> > > Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single and
> > > multi)
> > >
> > > 1. Min. 60 decks.
> > > 2. No proxy's
> >
> > What's meant by a proxy?
>
> A proxy´s a card with a different card´s text written on it by hand, or
> a piece of paper in the sleeve to represent a card. People use these if
> they don´t own or want to play with certain Rare cards.
>
> >
> > > 3. English cards only.
> > > 4. Colored sleeves are legal
> > > 5. Players can cut other players cards.
> > > 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or
DÉJÀ VU to
> modify
> > > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
> >
> > Interesting idea. I like it.
>
> How would a LotI influence a die roll? I think you meant Loaded Dice.
> >
> > > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
> first
> > > turn.
> > > 8. All games are to 60 rep.
> > > 9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4 you
> > > better have 6 more objectives.
> > > 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person with
> the
> > > most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you have
> LOTI
> > > or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
> >
> > No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?
> >
> > > 11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that
> caused
> > > Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
> > > 12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!
> >
> > Of course. :o)
> >
> > Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess they're
> > legal, just annoying.
> >
> And killing the game´s spirit. ---Felix



Killing the spirit? i think trogs life in the 6.World to.
Or doyou want an Tornamentsystem like Magic (Typ 1, Typ 1.5, Typ XXX)?

Olaf
Message no. 13
From: "a . a" <alphirius@****.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:35:11 EDT
>> At 02:00 PM 7/30/98 -0700, Noah Overton wrote these timeless words:
>> > <snip> scroll down far if you need to see the rest.
>> >
>> > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth
>card their
>> > first turn.
>> >
>> > what is with this rule. i dont see why any one would come up
>with a
>> > rule like this. there is nothing in the rule book that has any
>> > suggestion that this is some thing that may need to be done. i
>dont
>> > see why you should penalize the player that is going first.
>now if the
>> > rule is that if you use a card to help win the
>who-goes-first-roll,
>> > then you dont get the eight card but other wise it seems to me
>to be a
>> > really bad rule.
>> >
>> It's a holdover from Magic. It's become a fairly standard Magic
>tourney
>> rule because in Magic, going first is a huge advantage. Basically,
>if you
>> win the coin toss/dice roll, you get to "Play or Draw", to some
>extent
>> eliminating teh hug advantage that going first in magic can have.
>>

>IMO going first in ShadowRun is almost a penalty buy itself. You
>can't
>earn any rep in the first round when you are first. You can only play
>challenges on one objective (yours).
>
<snip>

In my opinion, going first, does have some benefits, and drawing that
eigth card in you first turn helps as well..... more than once, my
friends and I will play, and the person who goes first stands an okay
chance of going against an undefend objective, that's not
intercepted..... how? most folks I play, don't put challenges down,
till they see the card, and don't get a runnuer out very early.....

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
Message no. 14
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 14:59:55 -0700
---Brett Francis <slq0m@**.USU.EDU> wrote:
>
> IMO going first in ShadowRun is almost a penalty buy itself. You can't
> earn any rep in the first round when you are first. You can only play
> challenges on one objective (yours).

You can't earn any rep ony any of the turns in the first round, whether your
second or even third in a three player game. All Objectives come out face down
during the first round, and aren't revealed until the respective player's turn
during the next round.

Herein is the benefit of going first IMHO. Your Objective will be the first
revealed in the game, on your turn. You get first shot at a run for the game.
While not frequently taken at that moment, I have seen a handful of Objectives
get snagged in just such a manner: the 12 nuyen gets out a two or three cheap
runners with skills to sleaze, a static comes out for recon and then the
runners are put out that can take it, etc.

Also, since no one can run on the objectives that are out 'til they're
revealed, being first player allows you to wait and see your Objective on that
second round before you decide where to place your challenges. Thus you get
that little edge in seeing your Objective's bonuses or penalties, or use that
Sucker Run without any risk to yourself.

Going first also allows some possible combos to come out and kick start the nu
yen or your game. A small number of times I've been able to get a Static and
IQ/KJ out in combo with Fuchi and pull an extra four nu yen in that first
turn. Likewise with a one or two Thrash and a Dante's coming out in the first
round.

You get the idea.

> Secondly, If you're going to let people use deja vu and LotI to affect
> who starts, why not loaded dice?

I believe he intended to say Loaded Dice rather than LotI

> I don't really like this rule though,
> as the game hasn't started, why should anybody be able to play cards.

Why not? In this case, the die roll for who goes first comes after both
players have taken their initial four nu yen and drawn their hands of seven
cards. They have the cards and nu yen to deploy with it they so choose, as
long as the judges present allow it, such a thing should be a valid move.

> I probably will never play a tournament in my life, but I think if any
> game should be
> fair, it would be those games.

The tournies try to be as fair and even arena as possible, hence the posting
of rules and regulations that players must follow. Not to mention the presence
of judges.

> A few last questions: Do players take their turns according to the
> beginning die rolls? When time runs out, is it ensured that everyone
> had the same number of turns?

Unless you set a measured time allotment per player turn there's no way to
regulate an even number of turns. Even then, with the myriad number of things
that can occur in a given turn, you couldn't do it. Say you tried to estimate
long side for visited locations/contacts in legwork phases, extended runs from
a Reinforcements or Bulldog Van, Runner vs Runner Combat and such in a given
turn... that means on shorter turns there'll be wasted time as players have to
sit there and run down the clock. If you don't have each player taking a set
number and length of turn (say each getting 10 three minute turns in a
two-player game), then you'll end up with one player more than likely getting
more turns in that hour.

See the paradox? You could also have a game between the two players where
things are fast and furious and they only needed a couple of minutes of turn
each, however bing locked into the set lenght of turn you require you've
cheated both of them from a few more turns and possibly taking another
Objective or two.

Your best of with an unregulated unblocked number of turns set in a given time
frame.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 15
From: Brett Francis <slq0m@**.USU.EDU>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 16:26:45 -0600
Loki wrote:
>
> ---Brett Francis <slq0m@**.USU.EDU> wrote:
> >
> > IMO going first in ShadowRun is almost a penalty buy itself. You can't
> > earn any rep in the first round when you are first. You can only play
> > challenges on one objective (yours).
>
> You can't earn any rep ony any of the turns in the first round, whether your
> second or even third in a three player game. All Objectives come out face down
> during the first round, and aren't revealed until the respective player's turn
> during the next round.
>
> Herein is the benefit of going first IMHO. Your Objective will be the first
> revealed in the game, on your turn. You get first shot at a run for the game.
> While not frequently taken at that moment, I have seen a handful of Objectives
> get snagged in just such a manner: the 12 nuyen gets out a two or three cheap
> runners with skills to sleaze, a static comes out for recon and then the
> runners are put out that can take it, etc.
>
> Also, since no one can run on the objectives that are out 'til they're
> revealed, being first player allows you to wait and see your Objective on that
> second round before you decide where to place your challenges. Thus you get
> that little edge in seeing your Objective's bonuses or penalties, or use that
> Sucker Run without any risk to yourself.
>
> Going first also allows some possible combos to come out and kick start the nu
> yen or your game. A small number of times I've been able to get a Static and
> IQ/KJ out in combo with Fuchi and pull an extra four nu yen in that first
> turn. Likewise with a one or two Thrash and a Dante's coming out in the first
> round.
> -== Loki ==-
Although nobody can take an objective during the first round, it is
possible to earn rep with Wanted!. The player who goes first can't
possibly play that card because there will be no opponent runners out!
May not happen very often, but it happens.

Although your objective will be out first and you may go on a run on it,
everyone else could do the same with their own objectives.

I agree with your point about not playing challenges on your own
objective until it's revealed, but then everyone else can do the same.
The first player will not be able to play challenges on revealed
objectives (other than his own) until the third round. I don't think
many players are going to wait that long. But players other than the
first player can play their challenges on at least two objectives
freeing up their hands. I like to get going very quickly and often fill
my hand in the second or third round.

Your point about getting the nuyen rolling is good, but I fail to see
how it doesn't apply to every players first turn. Granted, there are
some combos that any player wants out as soon as possible, and being
first with the right cards in your hand helps. I still believe that I
would rather play my challenges so I can have room in my hand to fill
it.

Brett
Message no. 16
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 00:08:07 +0200
Olaf Kramer wrote:
>
> Felix Hoefert schrieb:
> > Loki wrote:
> > >
> > > ---Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Okay kids here are the rules for GenCon. Constructed deck (single
and
> > > > multi)
> > > >
> > > > 1. Min. 60 decks.
> > > > 2. No proxy's
> > >
> > > What's meant by a proxy?
> >
> > A proxy´s a card with a different card´s text written on it by hand, or
> > a piece of paper in the sleeve to represent a card. People use these if
> > they don´t own or want to play with certain Rare cards.
> >
> > >
> > > > 3. English cards only.
> > > > 4. Colored sleeves are legal
> > > > 5. Players can cut other players cards.
> > > > 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or
DÉJÀ VU to
> > modify
> > > > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling.
> > >
> > > Interesting idea. I like it.
> >
> > How would a LotI influence a die roll? I think you meant Loaded Dice.
> > >
> > > > 7. The player that goes first Does not draw his/her eighth card their
> > first
> > > > turn.
> > > > 8. All games are to 60 rep.
> > > > 9. Sucker runs don't count toward your 6 objectives. So if you have 4
you
> > > > better have 6 more objectives.
> > > > 10. If time runs out, cause there will be a time limit, the person
with
> > the
> > > > most rep wins. In case of a tie we go to a D6 roll (which if you
have
> > LOTI
> > > > or DÉJÀ VU you can use them) to determine the winner.
> > >
> > > No limitations on Media Chick in this regard?
> > >
> > > > 11. If Saeder-Krupp wins the game the player that visited last that
> > caused
> > > > Saeder-Krupp to win, loses the game NO matter what!!
> > > > 12. The most important rule: THE JUDGE'S SAY IS FINAL!!!
> > >
> > > Of course. :o)
> > >
> > > Nothing special as far as the bullies and morph-objectives go? Guess
they're
> > > legal, just annoying.
> > >
> > And killing the game´s spirit. ---Felix
>
> Killing the spirit? i think trogs life in the 6.World to.
> Or doyou want an Tornamentsystem like Magic (Typ 1, Typ 1.5, Typ XXX)?
>
Sure they live - until that puny old elven mage comes around the
corner... ;o) ---Felix
Message no. 17
From: Gabe Rosario <Brakiss187@***.COM>
Subject: Re: gencon tournament rules (official)
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 1998 01:34:07 EDT
In a message dated 7/31/98 6:51:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FHoefert@**=
ONLINE.DE writes:

> 6. When rolling to see who goes first you MAY use LOTI or DÉJÀ VU =
to
> > > modify
> > > > > your roll, this means you draw your seven cards before rolling=
.
yes loti should be replaced with loaded dice.... sorry.....

brakiss

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about gencon tournament rules (official), you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!