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Message no. 1
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:39:48 -0500
Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so, because
then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on this.
Message no. 2
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:59:03 -0800
---Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET> wrote:
>
> Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so,
because
> then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on this.

That's how we've been playing it. IMHO when the spirit goes the
insanity is lifted (IOW you're no longer possessed).

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 3/31/98

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Message no. 3
From: "Ken Dirk (DrugDoc)" <dirkkenn@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:49:19 -0800
Norman McLeod wrote:
>
> Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so, because
> then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on this.

I would think that the counters stay. The card would probably say
something like "remove all counters if heckler spirit leaves play."

Ken Dirk (DrugDoc)
Message no. 4
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:00:51 -0800
---"Ken Dirk (DrugDoc)" <dirkkenn@***.EDU> wrote:
>
> Norman McLeod wrote:
> >
> > Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so,
because
> > then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on
this.
>
> I would think that the counters stay. The card would probably say
> something like "remove all counters if heckler spirit leaves play."

The thing is, in all other instances of damaging or reducing tokes
(-X/-X or -X/-0), the Runner is able to recover and remove said tokes.
(i.e. - Damage Tokens, Virus Tokens, etc.)

I still say IMHO to tokens go when the spirit does.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/4/98


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
Message no. 5
From: Blade Hunter <bladehnt@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:20:12 -0500
On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Norman McLeod wrote:
> Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so, because
> then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on this.

I could actually see this going both ways. It isn't stated on the card that
the tokens ever go away (except perhaps via a yet created card; similar to how
there are no corporate challenges as of yet). It is a reasonable assumption
that the tokens might disappear with the Heckler, though I'll continue playing
it as a mean permanent insanity. Afterall, all other tokens don't make note
of being trashed when the originator is removed from play...

(I don't own a Heckler Spirit, but it spices up the game some when opponents
let them loose.)

Likewise, experience tokens are never taken away either. So to spawn tangents
of convoluted game play:

Leader of the Pack states "Play on target Ganger Runner", thus it stays in
play. The runner becomes a Ganger Leader and has an experience token of
+X/+X. Now then, what happens when Wabbit's Feet trashes the LotP?
Does the Ganger Leader remain a Ganger Leader?
Does the experience token remain?


Tournament wise, I don't know, ask an already busied developer...

la, la, la...
-me.
bladehnt@*********.net
Message no. 6
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 16:36:37 -0800
Blade Hunter wrote:

> > Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so, because
> > then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on this.

> I could actually see this going both ways. It isn't stated on the card that
> the tokens ever go away (except perhaps via a yet created card; similar to how
> there are no corporate challenges as of yet). It is a reasonable assumption
> that the tokens might disappear with the Heckler, though I'll continue playing
> it as a mean permanent insanity. Afterall, all other tokens don't make note
> of being trashed when the originator is removed from play...

On the other other hand, The Price of Fame indicates that the tokens
cant be removed, implying that the tokens from other cards can be (and
subtly implying that they only stick around as long as the generator is
around).

I usually play that tokens are permanent until an effect kicks em off:
If I visit Club Vortex,and the location is trashed before I pop the
drugs, I can still (on a later turn) use them, regardless of whether the
Club is back in play.

Heckler Spirit seems like an awfully *weak* card if the tokens pop off
with the card, but that's imho.


- Matt

------------------------------------
Beware the man who casts two shadows.

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Message no. 7
From: MLoki <MLoki@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:40:31 EDT
In a message dated 98-04-04 14:04:40 EST, you write:

<< >
> Norman McLeod wrote:
> >
> > Do the -1/+0 counters dissapear with the spirit? I don't think so,
because
> > then the card would suck, but I would like the list's opinion on
this.
>
> I would think that the counters stay. The card would probably say
> something like "remove all counters if heckler spirit leaves play."

The thing is, in all other instances of damaging or reducing tokes
(-X/-X or -X/-0), the Runner is able to recover and remove said tokes.
(i.e. - Damage Tokens, Virus Tokens, etc.)

I still say IMHO to tokens go when the spirit does. >>

The runner has the tokens not the spirit. So the tokens only go away when the
runner does.
Message no. 8
From: Crane <jack9@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 11:43:12 -0700
I believe the price of fame implies that a card has to say the counters
leave when the originator leaves play...imo.

Down with guns! Up with spirits/spells!...hehe
Message no. 9
From: Robert Thomas <Strangefate@*****.NET>
Subject: Heckler Spirit...
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:15:59 -0400
Do the insanity tokens that the spirit gives stay even after the spirit
goes away, or do they just stay until the spirit is trashed?
Message no. 10
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Heckler Spirit...
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:21:03 -0400
Do the insanity tokens that the spirit gives stay even after the spirit
goes away, or do they just stay until the spirit is trashed?

They stay afterwards

Further Reading

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Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.

Thwap!