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Message no. 1
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 09:04:19 +0000
Okay guys, my one friend and I played for 6 hours yesterday (when I
woke up, I seriously thought that conciousness was an Objective and
the Alarm Clock a challenge). He kicked my butt for all 6 hours
(which was only two games....)

Details: We are the only ones in the area playing SRTCG. I play a
Mage-Shaman deck with lots of guns :) and he plays a Decker-Rigger
deck with Ravage and Lord Torgo.

My main problem was that he kept my guys at bay....I could never get
enough guys out, because he did Riots to hurt everybody (and finish
off anyone hurt by a run) and DriveBy to take away his choice of
guys. (to make this worse, he played three Sabatoged Controls, and
me with only Ajax, so not enough piloting to sleaze it)

After a while, he'd pull out Lord torgo (he had enough Fame to not
worry about upkeep) who granted him enough skills to Sleaze anything.
He has a Caesar with Browse, so he knew exactly what challenges
there were, and would never try for them until he could sleaze by
them all anyway.

Now I know I can tune my deck up a few ways, but he murdered me. The
main reason our games took so long is because he just sat and built
power....I couldn't touch him. I caught his decker once with my
Security Decker (I was so smug) but he rolled a three and his decker
was fine, Trash my Sec Decker. (That sucks!)

When he didn't have Lord Torgo out., I could deal with him fairly
well, but afterwards I didn't stand a chance (that Browse is annoying
too). My questions are:

Q: What can I do to kill Lord Torgo?
-I haven't the pilots for Driveby, and he never gets hurt anyway
-with his Browse, Torgo never pulls out of a run, and even if he did,
I'd have to spend a fortune for a CHANCE of using bounty hunter.

Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be used on
Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?

Q: What can I do against browse that doesn't involve Rare cards (like
my Sec Decker) and gives me more than a 50% chance?

Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a Shaman
can use?

Q: Who has spells they can trade with me? :)

-=SwiftOne=-
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 2
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 06:49:30 -0700
---Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
[snip]
> When he didn't have Lord Torgo out., I could deal with him fairly
> well, but afterwards I didn't stand a chance (that Browse is annoying
> too). My questions are:
>
I know what you mean on the browse thing...

> Q: What can I do to kill Lord Torgo?
> -I haven't the pilots for Driveby, and he never gets hurt anyway
> -with his Browse, Torgo never pulls out of a run, and even if he did,
> I'd have to spend a fortune for a CHANCE of using bounty hunter.
>
There is always QAGS ;-) You could always use Whoops! to remove some
of the skills that he is relying on for sleazing. Nets, Gut Check and
other "non skill sleazable" cards are a good idea to. Since it sounds
like your games are rather drawn out I assume you have a lot on your
credstick, adding in pumpable challenges might be a good idea for the
"bottom of the stack". (BTW I think our longest game was a 4 man that
took a little over an hour.)

I would try a challenge stack like this:
1st: something to trigger an alarm
2nd: something to remove some runners (back to the safehouse or out of
the game)
3rd: something pumpable to inflict a lot of damage on the remaining
runners

Back to Torgo though. You could play Wanted! on him and and go after
him that way. Swapping out a couple of mages/shamans for some "meat"
might not be a bad idea either (if you don't have the samurai, and
mercs in there already).


> Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be used on
> Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?
>
Actually, in this case, since the Yamaha is a vehicle it is prevented
from being used on Indoor challenges. The special ability could be
used, but the bonus to armor can't be.


> Q: What can I do against browse that doesn't involve Rare cards (like
> my Sec Decker) and gives me more than a 50% chance?
>
Add a decker.... Wanted! is uncommon. Depending upon the body of the
decker, adding your own Bar Fights and Riots might work in your favor.
More in keeping with the "flavor" of the deck, there is always
Tempest (it's a rare though :-( )


> Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a Shaman
> can use?
>
Yes

Just my $0.02
Forrest
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Message no. 3
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 10:11:46 +0000
> > Q: What can I do to kill Lord Torgo?
> > -I haven't the pilots for Driveby, and he never gets hurt anyway
> > -with his Browse, Torgo never pulls out of a run, and even if he did,
> > I'd have to spend a fortune for a CHANCE of using bounty hunter.
> >
> There is always QAGS ;-) You could always use Whoops! to remove some
> of the skills that he is relying on for sleazing. Nets, Gut Check and
> other "non skill sleazable" cards are a good idea to. Since it sounds
> like your games are rather drawn out I assume you have a lot on your
> credstick, adding in pumpable challenges might be a good idea for the
> "bottom of the stack". (BTW I think our longest game was a 4 man that
> took a little over an hour.)

Actually, no, I didn't have much on the credstick (sometimes yes, but
other times I was spending it all to get my of guys out again (after
they got slaughtered).

GAQs' and Whoops don't help much, because he has enough muscle to
deal with anything a singler (or even two No Way Out'd) Challenge can
deal. (torgo IS a 9/9A2 BEFORE gear) Gut Check would just stall
for time...assuming he didn't just breeze past it.

I could in theory create a deck dedicated to slaughtering
Torgo.....but it couldn't do much else (like, for example, win). And
the more cards involved in the combo, the less likely I'll be able to
pull it off.

> I would try a challenge stack like this:
> 1st: something to trigger an alarm

GAQS, Whoops.

> 2nd: something to remove some runners (back to the safehouse or out of
> the game)

GAQS.

> 3rd: something pumpable to inflict a lot of damage on the remaining
> runners

Got these, but will I have the money?

> Back to Torgo though. You could play Wanted! on him and and go after
> him that way. Swapping out a couple of mages/shamans for some "meat"
> might not be a bad idea either (if you don't have the samurai, and
> mercs in there already).

I've got some muscle(Hachetman, Reaper), but they aren't enough.
Wanted! would require that I have someone able to defeat a 9/9A2
(plus the massive amounts of junk he throws on him....Torgo with two
Hand Razors is vile. Vindicator is just as bad.)

> > Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be used on
> > Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?
> >
> Actually, in this case, since the Yamaha is a vehicle it is prevented
> from being used on Indoor challenges. The special ability could be
> used, but the bonus to armor can't be.

What I meant was: If it doesn't say Outdoor
OR Indoor, do I have the armor bonus or not?

> Add a decker.... Wanted! is uncommon. Depending upon the body of the
> decker, adding your own Bar Fights and Riots might work in your favor.

But A decker would require his own gear, screwing up the mages in my
deck.

Not trying to be a downer here, I just can't think of any
reasonable fix to this. (The Bar Fights on the Decker, yes)

Sigh.
Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 4
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 08:59:14 -0700
---Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> GAQs' and Whoops don't help much, because he has enough muscle to
> deal with anything a singler (or even two No Way Out'd) Challenge can
> deal. (torgo IS a 9/9A2 BEFORE gear) Gut Check would just stall
> for time...assuming he didn't just breeze past it.
>
That's why you should use those challenges that target specific runner
to "weed out" some of them.

[snip]

> > I would try a challenge stack like this:
> > 1st: something to trigger an alarm
>
> GAQS, Whoops.
>
Actually I meant something like The Funhouse, Toxic Spirit and Astral
Sentry (since it sounds like he doesn't have Shaman), Eyekiller
followed by Feeding Ghouls, Minefield, Bobby Trap, Flock of Geese,
etc...


> > 2nd: something to remove some runners (back to the safehouse or out
> > of the game)
>
> GAQS.
>
Retinal Scanner, Poison Gas trap, Nets, Minefield, Bobby Trap, Hit and
Run, those that target a single runner Incubus, Killer Drone,
Manticore, etc...

> > 3rd: something pumpable to inflict a lot of damage on the remaining
> > runners
>
> Got these, but will I have the money?
>
You know these... Don't know about the money thing, I typically have
problems with this myself.

[snip]

>
> I've got some muscle(Hachetman, Reaper), but they aren't enough.
> Wanted! would require that I have someone able to defeat a 9/9A2
> (plus the massive amounts of junk he throws on him....Torgo with two
> Hand Razors is vile. Vindicator is just as bad.)
>
How about Infected Chrome (can you put 2 of these on a single runner?)
and/or Cyber-Psychosis? Of course Dr. Apocalypse with a Hellblast and
Wanted! should do the trick and give you reputation to boot. However
that's 2 rares and a 3 card combo you might not see too often.

> > > Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be
used on
> > > Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?
> > >
[snipped]
>
> What I meant was: If it doesn't say Outdoor
> OR Indoor, do I have the armor bonus or not?
>
Sorry, I see now. Yes, unless the card (or objective the challenge is
on) states otherwise it can be used.

[snip]
>
> But A decker would require his own gear, screwing up the mages in my
> deck.
>
> Not trying to be a downer here, I just can't think of any
> reasonable fix to this. (The Bar Fights on the Decker, yes)
>

Unfortunately there aren't too many options for directly taking out
runners (something akin to Terror or Swords to Plowshares from MTG).
The best thing to do is try challenge combos that continually pile on
the damage and then try to finish him off during your turn with Riots
and Tempest.

The other thing to try is to speed your deck up a bit. I don't know
what's in it, and I'm no master at deckbuilding myself... So I'm not
sure what pointers to give you for this one.


You know the drill :-)
Forrest
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Message no. 5
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 14:15:05 +0000
> > > I would try a challenge stack like this:
> > > 1st: something to trigger an alarm
> >
> > GAQS, Whoops.
> >
> Actually I meant something like The Funhouse, Toxic Spirit and Astral
> Sentry (since it sounds like he doesn't have Shaman), Eyekiller
> followed by Feeding Ghouls, Minefield, Bobby Trap, Flock of Geese,
> etc...

Hmm. I only have half of those, but your point is valid and
well-made.

> > > 2nd: something to remove some runners (back to the safehouse or out
> > > of the game)
> Retinal Scanner, Poison Gas trap, Nets, Minefield, Bobby Trap, Hit and
> Run, those that target a single runner Incubus, Killer Drone,
> Manticore, etc...

Retinal Scanner? I haven't found this to be the least bit useful.
But then the die is always against me.

Hit and run doesn't kill or remove anyone (although it does hurt the
heck out of them)

> How about Infected Chrome (can you put 2 of these on a single runner?)
> and/or Cyber-Psychosis? Of course Dr. Apocalypse with a Hellblast and
> Wanted! should do the trick and give you reputation to boot. However
> that's 2 rares and a 3 card combo you might not see too often.

Especially since I don't have a single one of them, much less in my
deck. :(

> > > > Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be
> > What I meant was: If it doesn't say Outdoor
> > OR Indoor, do I have the armor bonus or not?
> >
> Sorry, I see now. Yes, unless the card (or objective the challenge is
> on) states otherwise it can be used.

umm.. Okay.

> The other thing to try is to speed your deck up a bit. I don't know
> what's in it, and I'm no master at deckbuilding myself... So I'm not
> sure what pointers to give you for this one.

I did notice that it was pretty slow. I'm working on it.

Thanks for the help. I'll let you know in a few days if it worked.


Brett Borger
SwiftOne@***.edu
AAP Techie
Message no. 6
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 12:13:22 -0700
---Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU> wrote:
>
[snip]
> > > > 2nd: something to remove some runners (back to the safehouse or
> > > > out of the game)
> > Retinal Scanner, Poison Gas trap, Nets, Minefield, Bobby Trap, Hit
> > and Run, those that target a single runner Incubus, Killer Drone,
> > Manticore, etc...
>
> Retinal Scanner? I haven't found this to be the least bit useful.
> But then the die is always against me.
>
[snip]

Since Lord Torgo is a Troll a couple of Loaded Dice and you improve
the odds of him being sent back. I know this is really starting to be
a pain of a combo but if you hit Torgo for a couple of points of
damage to decrease his body, send him back with the Retinal Scanner
(or better yet a QAGS to save the Loaded Dice) then you could sack him
with the Bounty Hunter.

Remember, as pointed out earlier (if I remember correctly) the Bounty
Hunter works against current body. So if Torgo has taken some damage
(say 3 points) then the cost to attempt to trash him is 6. As far as
I know the built in armor is NOT taken into account. If there are
things that increase his body (Muscle Replacement for instance) that
is though.

Just more random thoughts,
Good Luck!
Forrest
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Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:15:28 -0700
> When he didn't have Lord Torgo out., I could deal with him fairly
> well, but afterwards I didn't stand a chance (that Browse is annoying
> too). My questions are:

Lord Torgo, quite frankly, is a sick card, even if you took away his
anti-elf ability (why oh why!)

> Q: What can I do to kill Lord Torgo?
> -I haven't the pilots for Driveby, and he never gets hurt anyway
> -with his Browse, Torgo never pulls out of a run, and even if he did,
> I'd have to spend a fortune for a CHANCE of using bounty hunter.

Bad Lunch may leave Lord of the Torgo Pit indisposed for awhile. A
Rough Night or two (you *can* play more than one in a turn, even though
it doesn't make "Realworld" sense) may bring him down low enough for a
large critter to essen him. Getting your own Torgo out prevents him
entirely. Aztechnology.. argh, I'm slipping into the rares.

> Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be used on
> Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?

My understanding was that Indoor Challenges only allowed Indoor and
non-aligned effects (in otherwords, it eliminates outdoor stuff.)

> Q: What can I do against browse that doesn't involve Rare cards (like
> my Sec Decker) and gives me more than a 50% chance?

Uhh.. Red Alert is a rare too.. Fielding your own deckers (with Black
Hammer or Hawg) is the only quick one I can think of. Or, of course,
Drive-bying, Riotsing, or Bad Lunching the deckers too.

> Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a Shaman
> can use?

I usually assume not, but I'd wait to hear from FASA.

> Q: Who has spells they can trade with me? :)

I do! Email me a trade list.

> -=SwiftOne=-
> Brett Borger
> SwiftOne@***.edu
> AAP Techie
Message no. 8
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 04:20:20 -0700
> Remember, as pointed out earlier (if I remember correctly) the Bounty
> Hunter works against current body. So if Torgo has taken some damage
> (say 3 points) then the cost to attempt to trash him is 6. As far as
> I know the built in armor is NOT taken into account. If there are
> things that increase his body (Muscle Replacement for instance) that
> is though.

I was pretty sure the effect of the post was that the Bounty Hunter was
paid the "rating" value, not the "effective" value. In other words,
it
can only go up.

Also on the miscellaneous list, I thought when you played LotI, you had
to decide the effect (_1 or -1) before the die roll, not after. Much
less powerful, that way.
Message no. 9
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 18:44:47 -0700
---Brett Borger wrote:
>
> Q: What can I do to kill Lord Torgo?
> -I haven't the pilots for Driveby, and he never gets hurt anyway
> -with his Browse, Torgo never pulls out of a run, and even if he did,
> I'd have to spend a fortune for a CHANCE of using bounty hunter.

Not true. According to the FASA repsonse I posted to the list the
other day, the Bounty Hunter's fee is figured off the target Runner's
current body. So if Lord Torgo is coming back from a run with 4 points
of damage, it'll only cost you 5 nu yen to try and nail him.

> Q: The Rapier says "Outdoor". Does this mean it can ONLY be used on
> Outdoor Challenges, or CAN'T be used on Indoor Challenges?

It can't be used against challenges that specifically say they are
Indoors.

> Q: What can I do against browse that doesn't involve Rare cards (like
> my Sec Decker) and gives me more than a 50% chance?

Security Camera is nice. If you're opponent is a sleaze fiend, just
try to keep a Whoops or GAQS that can keep him from meeting the two
stealth for sleaze. Now the alarms ringing and you get to throw a new
challenge at him that he hasn't been able to browse. Booby Traps or
Incubus work great in this situation. If you used a GAQS to cut him
down to just Lord Torgo you've also solved another problem. ;o)

> Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a Shaman
> can use?

I would imagine so. However, the Ally doesn't have to be turned to use
it so it may not. I'll go to FASA for clarification on this.

> Q: Who has spells they can trade with me? :)

Check out my trade list at my webpage.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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Message no. 10
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:05:59 -0700
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> Also on the miscellaneous list, I thought when you played LotI, you
> had to decide the effect (_1 or -1) before the die roll, not after.
> Much less powerful, that way.
>

Luck of the Irish??? Do you possibly mean loaded dice? If so, then
yes you have to decide before you roll whether to go up or down.
However since you know the target range of what you are rolling for
you can pick it based on that. For instance, as mentioned previously
in this thread, using LD on Lord Torgo and Retinal Scanners on 6
Trolls return.

OK, actually now that I double checked this card maybe this isn't such
a good idea. I had thought it was on 6+ Trolls returned, in which
case the LD would help increase the odds to 1/3. Since it is on a
roll of 6 only the LD on RS isn't going to help in this case.

I assume since it isn't specified a roll of 7 would be a no effect?
Has anyone asked this? Actually to generalize it, what happens when
the die comes up with a number (after being modified of course) that
isn't on the card?

Oh well, another good idea shot down :-)
Later!
Forrest
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Message no. 11
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 05:32:31 -0700
> > Also on the miscellaneous list, I thought when you played LotI, you
> > had to decide the effect (+1 or -1) before the die roll, not after.
> > Much less powerful, that way.

> Luck of the Irish??? Do you possibly mean loaded dice?

Uhh.. yeah, that's the card. It's me and my attention defi.......
ooh, look, mommy, there's an airplane, up in the sky!

> If so, then yes you have to decide before you roll whether to go up or down.

I thought I heard someone in passing mention choosing afterward. The
card is ambiguously worded.. peeve, peeve.

> However since you know the target range of what you are rolling for
> you can pick it based on that. For instance, as mentioned previously
> in this thread, using LD on Lord Torgo and Retinal Scanners on 6
> Trolls return.

UB has a pretty funky effect on this (since you want to aim away from
the middle.) Most of the choices are pretty easy, otherwise.

> OK, actually now that I double checked this card maybe this isn't such
> a good idea. I had thought it was on 6+ Trolls returned, in which
> case the LD would help increase the odds to 1/3. Since it is on a
> roll of 6 only the LD on RS isn't going to help in this case.

> I assume since it isn't specified a roll of 7 would be a no effect?
> Has anyone asked this? Actually to generalize it, what happens when
> the die comes up with a number (after being modified of course) that
> isn't on the card?

Ret Scanners definitely seem to have a "null zone": -1 and 7+,
respectively. Most of the other cards read 4+, so rolls of 7 and 12 are
still good.

> Oh well, another good idea shot down :-)
Message no. 12
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:17:46 -0700
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
[snip
> A Rough Night or two (you *can* play more than one in a turn, even
> though it doesn't make "Realworld" sense) may bring him down low
> enough for a large critter to essen him.
[snip]

You obviously need to get out more ;-) :-) :-p

[snip]

> > Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a
Shaman
> > can use?
>
> I usually assume not, but I'd wait to hear from FASA.
>
Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind this? According to the
rules, spirits are the equivalent to drones in every respect. To get
the special ability of the drone you have to use it. According to the
text on the Ally Spirit the +1/+2 is applied to the user. Like all
other drones/spirits though the runner may have it and not use it (and
therefore not receive the bonus).

Just my view, I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again :-)
Later!
Forrest


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Message no. 13
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 1997 19:36:48 -0700
---Matb wrote:
>
> I was pretty sure the effect of the post was that the Bounty Hunter
was
> paid the "rating" value, not the "effective" value. In other
words,
it
> can only go up.

No, you pay the current body value whether decreased by armor,
increased by cyber, etc. Think of it as it's easier to kill someone
who's already wounded and hard to kill someone who's augmented.

Here's Jim's response again:

~~~~~~~~~~
You pay the Runner's current Body value (however it's modified--damage,
dermal plating, whatever) when using Bounty Hunter.
~~~~~~~~~~

===
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Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament

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Message no. 14
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 1997 13:49:26 -0700
> [snip
> > A Rough Night or two (you *can* play more than one in a turn, even
> > though it doesn't make "Realworld" sense) may bring him down low
> > enough for a large critter to essen him.
> [snip]

> You obviously need to get out more ;-) :-) :-p

Well, yes, of course. What of it? :)

> [snip]

> > > Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a
> Shaman
> > > can use?

> > I usually assume not, but I'd wait to hear from FASA.

> Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind this? According to the
> rules, spirits are the equivalent to drones in every respect. To get
> the special ability of the drone you have to use it. According to the
> text on the Ally Spirit the +1/+2 is applied to the user. Like all
> other drones/spirits though the runner may have it and not use it (and
> therefore not receive the bonus).

"Owner gains +1/+2 while Ally Spirit is in play. Trash to avoid all
damage taken from one source." That "while in play" bit says to me that
it doesn't have to be activated, except to avoid damage. It's along the
lines of the vehicles (not drones) - they give their bonuses while
unturned.

This would let you stack Allies, however.. eep. Anyone for a 8/12
Wishbone? (And if we could only get Grampa Bones to join the group and
Initiate, hehe, 9/14!) And no, I don't actually see anything wrong with
this. (20 yen and five cards for Wishbone - you go there.)

> Just my view, I've been wrong before, I'll be wrong again :-)

<territorial>
*I'M* the listmember.eternal.newbie! Go stomp out yer own turf! ;)
</territorial>

-Matb
Message no. 15
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: I was slaughtered
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 08:34:12 -0500
You wrote:
>
>> [snip

>> > > Q: Does the Ally spirit count against the number of Spirits a
>> Shaman
>> > > can use?
>
>> > I usually assume not, but I'd wait to hear from FASA.
>
>> Out of curiosity, what is the reasoning behind this? According to
the
>> rules, spirits are the equivalent to drones in every respect. To
get
>> the special ability of the drone you have to use it. According to
the
>> text on the Ally Spirit the +1/+2 is applied to the user. Like all
>> other drones/spirits though the runner may have it and not use it
(and
>> therefore not receive the bonus).
>
>"Owner gains +1/+2 while Ally Spirit is in play. Trash to avoid all
>damage taken from one source." That "while in play" bit says to me
that
>it doesn't have to be activated, except to avoid damage. It's along
the
>lines of the vehicles (not drones) - they give their bonuses while
>unturned.
>
>This would let you stack Allies, however.. eep. Anyone for a 8/12
>Wishbone? (And if we could only get Grampa Bones to join the group
and
>Initiate, hehe, 9/14!) And no, I don't actually see anything wrong
with
>this. (20 yen and five cards for Wishbone - you go there.)
>

I would make a case for it not counting against the spirit total, and a
limit of one per Shaman with Conjure 2, but both of these are harkening
back to the RPG and some of its concepts, and that does not always
follow suit.

Yeah, maybe he could slot a Chip that would give Grandfather Bones
another level of Conjure....(grin)...wait, we don't have that Skillsoft
yet, do we...

Argent

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Thwap!