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Message no. 1
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 23:02:17 CDT
Over the weekend I finally got to try out my Shaman/Biotech/Troll
deck and it basically romped. Biotech is wonderfully useful, and
having 8 runners available to use it I quickly assembled a team of
runners who were able to push through a heavily defended objective
each turn. What usually happened was that either one of my big
trolls (Titan/Stomper/Knuckles) or an Ally Spirit would absorb
the damage taken from a challenge and then be healled before the
next challenge was met. Then if everything goes well I came away
with two runners with health tokens on them. Occasionally I'ld
lose one to a drive-by or riot, but usually one of my Knuckles
would be able to absorb the damage for their weaker compatriots.

THe following legwork phase I'ld use the Squatter to get back an
allied spirit and put it back out, the moonshadows would heal the
injured big guns and they would go out again, and usually succed.

Overall, it seems that dumping a bunch of biotech into a deck helps
alot, fortunately only 2 runners have it and they are uncommon and
rare respectively. I'm just glad I have 4 moonshadows to increase
the likelyhood of getting the right team out.

Since no one wanted to play Phil's Challenge of the Day last weekend
I've scraped putting it out. (I had a special combo question slated
for this week) Put I might as well tell you what 6 runners have the
best chance of sleazing their way to victory:

Ajax, Ghost Who Walks, Macabre, Sally Tsung, Sam the Sleuth and
Tinkerbell.

As for my questions here are the ones brought up by my friends over
the last month or so:

Stun Gloves

Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?

Ally Spirit

You can trash the Ally Spirit to avoid all damage taken from one
sourc. Does this mean that the shaman controling the Ally Spirit
needs to be the target, or can it absorb damage directed to another
runner present? Also if it only effects sources targeting the
shaman controlling it, does it absorb all the damage done to the
other runners presents as well? (ie does it soak all of the
damage dealt by Adam Bomb or a Highway Showdown - afterall it
would be like someone jumping on a grenade for the betterment of
the party).

Club Vortex

Can the drug tokens be exchanged like gear?

Bounty Hunter

What does "pulled out of a shadowrun" really mean? Does this include
being sent back by Hellish Traffic, Wild Goose Chase etc, or
just volantary pull outs, GAQs, Nets etc?

Elven Hitman

Can the Opponnent pay 6 nuyen to take out the elven hitman?
I'ld imagine so, since you could think of it as they just hired
a better hitman then yours to ixnay him first.

Abducted!

I'll confess I have no idea how this card works....
Please enlighten me...

Hell, a couple of cards use the term "considered fragged" what does
it really mean? Are fragged runners considered to be immune to
riots? Can they be targeted by any specials? Do you need to
pay for them when they are put out again? etc...

Does this count a "pulling out of a shadowrun"?

Ambidextrous

Can a pistol and a HTH weapon be used at the same time? Gramatically
the card implies no....

Blindsided

Does the player have to phase his own challenges first? Or does the
owner of the objective still decide what is incountered first?

Chomps 2000 Guard Dog

Can you use stun gloves on it when it is first revealed (if you ruled
that the gloves are used in combat), since it technically doesn't
deal damage.

Gaurdian Earth/Fire Elemental

Is the -2/-2 applied to each shaman or applied to the Elemental? If
the latter why would you want to use them?

Security Consultant

We had been playing that if there isn't any challenges on your own
stack, the shadowrun is imediately ended. Is this right or are you
supposed to try to meet the requirements of the objective?






--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 14:14:52 -0700
> As for my questions here are the ones brought up by my friends over
> the last month or so:

> Stun Gloves

> Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
> awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
> latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?

The way the card is worded -- "Trash target Challenge" -- it sounds like
the Challenge doesn't even have to be present! ("OK, Ice Queen recons.
A Basilisk, huh? Chipjack-2 and Torgo take it out!") I imagine you
have to turn the Gloves to use them, or otherwise it pretty much means
that any Personnel or Awakened challenge is goners.

But it sounds like this effect is supposed to occur whenever the Runner
in question first encounters a Challenge (ie, when it's revealed on a
shadowrun), the effect only happens once, and if the Challenge is
trashed, it doesn't deal damage (the Stun Gloves effect is resolved
immediately).

> Ally Spirit

> You can trash the Ally Spirit to avoid all damage taken from one
> sourc. Does this mean that the shaman controling the Ally Spirit
> needs to be the target,

Common sense says yes.

> or can it absorb damage directed to another
> runner present? Also if it only effects sources targeting the
> shaman controlling it, does it absorb all the damage done to the
> other runners presents as well? (ie does it soak all of the
> damage dealt by Adam Bomb or a Highway Showdown - afterall it
> would be like someone jumping on a grenade for the betterment of
> the party).

No. It takes all the damage directed toward that shaman - kind of like
a Guard ability. In fact, exactly like the Guard ability.

I have to assume it doesn't need to turn to grant its +1/+2 bonus,
otherwise it's a waste card. Neat as it is, I just don't use it that
often - there aren't that many (4?) Runners out there with Conjure-2,
and all of them uncommon or rare.

> Club Vortex

> Can the drug tokens be exchanged like gear?

No. The Drug tokens are not listed as Gear.

> Bounty Hunter

> What does "pulled out of a shadowrun" really mean? Does this include
> being sent back by Hellish Traffic, Wild Goose Chase etc, or
> just volantary pull outs, GAQs, Nets etc?

I'm for the tight wording on "pull out" - meaning the player chooses to
send him/her/it back, rather than a card effect. Might also depend on
who plays the card.

> Elven Hitman

> Can the Opponnent pay 6 nuyen to take out the elven hitman?
> I'ld imagine so, since you could think of it as they just hired
> a better hitman then yours to ixnay him first.

The six nuyen can be pointed at any Contact, including the Hitman
himself.

> Abducted!

> I'll confess I have no idea how this card works....
> Please enlighten me...

Lets say I've got the Z-Zone in play -- a badly worded card, since I
have to send a "team" to the Zone, but it commits all Runners on both
sides -- anyway, I can directly attack all of Loki's Runners, *but* he's
got a horkin' huge Torgo, with Ambidextrous, two katanas and Wired
Reflexes (eeps!)

I can, however, play Abducted as a special during my legwork - which
"frags" Torgo. Loki can't use the DocWagon to recover him, since Torgo
isn't in the graveya^H^H^H^H^H^H^H trash pile; he can't use his special
ability to genocide my elves, since he's out of play; he can't turn to
trade equipment - he can't nothing, until not his next turn (when Torgo
is returned to play, turned) but the turn after that.

So *my* mid-size guy gets to leap all over Loki's 1/1s, and wholesale
slaughter is assured.

> Hell, a couple of cards use the term "considered fragged" what does
> it really mean? Are fragged runners considered to be immune to
> riots? Can they be targeted by any specials? Do you need to
> pay for them when they are put out again? etc...

"Somewhat fragged" runners are out of play for all intents and purposes
- they can't be affected by any card, special, or effect; they are not
present in your trash pile to rescue with a Squatter, nor their Gear
their to Chop Shop; they don't need to be paid for again, nor their
upkeep met. They're not there.

> Does this count a "pulling out of a shadowrun"?

It wouldn't matter - they couldn't be affected by the Bounty Hunter.

> Ambidextrous

> Can a pistol and a HTH weapon be used at the same time? Gramatically
> the card implies no....

Dont have the card - one of the few I'm missing.

> Blindsided

> Does the player have to phase his own challenges first? Or does the
> owner of the objective still decide what is incountered first?

The owner of the objective, I'm fairly sure, *always* determines the
order in which the Challenges are encountered, FastJack being the
exception.

> Chomps 2000 Guard Dog

> Can you use stun gloves on it when it is first revealed (if you ruled
> that the gloves are used in combat), since it technically doesn't
> deal damage.

Yes. You can also Sleep it, Invisibiity it, Rampaging Mutant it (before
it's revealed), Just a Rumor it, and so on.

Nifty trick: It's immune to Adam Bomb! Unfortunately, Tactics: Converge
can't make sure he's the only one to get damaged, otherwise you'd have a
deadly combo!

> Gaurdian Earth/Fire Elemental

> Is the -2/-2 applied to each shaman or applied to the Elemental? If
> the latter why would you want to use them?

To the Elemental. Use them because they're worth bonus Reputation.
Whoops! your own shamen, so that there's only Conjure-2 among them, send
in some heavies and and a guy with Heavy/Full and Tactics: Converge -
let him take all the damage and shrug it off!

> Security Consultant

> We had been playing that if there isn't any challenges on your own
> stack, the shadowrun is imediately ended. Is this right or are you
> supposed to try to meet the requirements of the objective?

"If player has no Challenges on this Objective, then the shadowrun is
over." You've been playing right.


-M
Message no. 3
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 22:17:12 -0700
---Matb wrote:
>
> > Bounty Hunter
>
> > What does "pulled out of a shadowrun" really mean? Does this
include
> > being sent back by Hellish Traffic, Wild Goose Chase etc, or
> > just volantary pull outs, GAQs, Nets etc?
>
> I'm for the tight wording on "pull out" - meaning the player chooses
to
> send him/her/it back, rather than a card effect. Might also depend
on
> who plays the card.

From our Game Q&A:

Q. Bounty Hunter-can you use it whenever a runner leaves a run, for
whatever reason? Barney Phyffe, Green Apple, or even if they just fall
into the Nets or can't get past the Maglock?

A. Bounty Hunter can be used whenever a Runner pulls out of a run (for
any reason) before taking the Objective.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/29/97
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 4
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:29:55 CDT
Mattb worte:
>>As for my questions here are the ones brought up by my friends over
>>the last month or so:
>
>>Stun Gloves
>
>>Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
>>awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
>>latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?
>
>The way the card is worded -- "Trash target Challenge" -- it sounds like
>the Challenge doesn't even have to be present! ("OK, Ice Queen recons.
>A Basilisk, huh? Chipjack-2 and Torgo take it out!") I imagine you
>have to turn the Gloves to use them, or otherwise it pretty much means
>that any Personnel or Awakened challenge is goners.
>
>But it sounds like this effect is supposed to occur whenever the Runner
>in question first encounters a Challenge (ie, when it's revealed on a
>shadowrun), the effect only happens once, and if the Challenge is
>trashed, it doesn't deal damage (the Stun Gloves effect is resolved
>immediately).

That's how we have been playing it, but does the alarm get set off?

I have a deck were having Lord Torgo and 2 Stompers are going around
knocking out anything that moves (I'm glad to own 3 stun gloves),
and my friends would like to know if I need to fight the Heavy Sentry
Gun around the corner if I punch out the Hellhound before it. We've
been playing that the alarm is still set off, to off set the deck a
bit since getting a 1-3, 1-2 or a 1-2 on three d6 rolls is fairly
easy to achieve.

>>Bounty Hunter
>
>>What does "pulled out of a shadowrun" really mean? Does this include
>>being sent back by Hellish Traffic, Wild Goose Chase etc, or
>>just volantary pull outs, GAQs, Nets etc?
>
>I'm for the tight wording on "pull out" - meaning the player chooses to
>send him/her/it back, rather than a card effect. Might also depend on
>who plays the card.

We've been playing that it can be used on any runner who returns to the
safehouse, while other runners continue, or when the entire team
calls it quits voluntarily. Otherwise you can get into some really nasty
combos.

>>Abducted!
>
>>I'll confess I have no idea how this card works....
>>Please enlighten me...

<Matt's explanation of "considered fragged" deleted to save space>

>>Hell, a couple of cards use the term "considered fragged" what does
>>it really mean? Are fragged runners considered to be immune to
>>riots? Can they be targeted by any specials? Do you need to
>>pay for them when they are put out again? etc...
>
>"Somewhat fragged" runners are out of play for all intents and purposes
>- they can't be affected by any card, special, or effect; they are not
>present in your trash pile to rescue with a Squatter, nor their Gear
>their to Chop Shop; they don't need to be paid for again, nor their
>upkeep met. They're not there.
>
>>Does this count a "pulling out of a shadowrun"?
>
>It wouldn't matter - they couldn't be affected by the Bounty Hunter.

I take it you mean that "fragged" runners are immune to every card,
because they for all intents and purposes do not exist. Right?
Because I wasn't just reffering to Abducted!, but Barney Phyffe and
a couple of other cards as well...



--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 00:10:18 -0700
---Phillip G Jaros wrote:
>
> Stun Gloves
>
> Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
> awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
> latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?

In response to your other post, I figure this one may take a FASA
touch to settle it.

Anways, here's my 2 nu yen's worth:

Stun Gloves
Type: Gear
Description: Gear/HTH/Weapon
Notes: 3¥. Play on Runner with Melee. Affects only Awakened and
Personnel Challenges. Roll a D6. If the result is equal to or less
than user's Melee than trash target Challenge.

The gloves are classified as a Weapon. IMHO this means they are used
in combat. Combat with a Challenge usually only occurs if you've
failed to Sleaze it, which means that the Alarm has been triggered.
The only weapons that will reset a triggered alarm are Silenced
weapons, and we've gotten the word from FASA that HTH weapons are not
automoatically silenced. So my answer would be that by the time you're
using the Stun Gloves, it's too late to worry about tripping the alarm.

Also, only one type of weapon may be used per Runner in a given
combat. So whoever it was that was asking about a Ambidextrous Lord
Torgo with Katana's and Stun Gloves was making a moot point.

One other thing, since stun gloves are a weapon. If you use them, I
would expect that you don't also deal damage. You either trash the
target or you don't. I would expect this is taking place during a
weapon's normal damage dealing phase, so your target gets to deal
their damage before being trashed. (Kinda like the example of Chomps
2000 getting dropped to a 6/0 by Milk Run. He's trashed because of his
Body being a zero but he'll deal his damage first.)

Does any of that make sense?


> Ally Spirit
>
> You can trash the Ally Spirit to avoid all damage taken from one
> sourc. Does this mean that the shaman controling the Ally Spirit
> needs to be the target, or can it absorb damage directed to another
> runner present? Also if it only effects sources targeting the
> shaman controlling it, does it absorb all the damage done to the
> other runners presents as well? (ie does it soak all of the
> damage dealt by Adam Bomb or a Highway Showdown - afterall it
> would be like someone jumping on a grenade for the betterment of
> the party).

Since the +1/+2 bonus listed on the card is "User" specific, I would
think the damage absorbtion is as well. As in the case with Adam Bomb
or Highway Showdown, I'd think it is only that damage that would
normally be taken by the Shaman. You couldn't normally say the Shaman
is going to jump on the grenade and trash him to save the party. The
guard ability doesn't work that way either. In fact, I'd say to think
of Ally Spirit as a one time Guard ability specific to it's Shaman.

> Club Vortex
>
> Can the drug tokens be exchanged like gear?

Nothing says they're Gear, so I'd say no.

> Bounty Hunter
>
> What does "pulled out of a shadowrun" really mean? Does this include
> being sent back by Hellish Traffic, Wild Goose Chase etc, or
> just volantary pull outs, GAQs, Nets etc?

Anything that sends the Runner home prior to achieving the Objective.
This is in the Game Q&A. (See another response I made to you and Matb.)

> Elven Hitman
>
> Can the Opponnent pay 6 nuyen to take out the elven hitman?
> I'ld imagine so, since you could think of it as they just hired
> a better hitman then yours to ixnay him first.

No. This comes from me asking the same question of Mike Mulvihill and
Skuzzy and Gen Con. The Elven Hitman can not be paid to shoot himself
in the head. However, you can frag him with your own Elven Hitman if
you get one out.

> Abducted!
>
> I'll confess I have no idea how this card works....
> Please enlighten me...
>
> Hell, a couple of cards use the term "considered fragged" what does
> it really mean? Are fragged runners considered to be immune to
> riots? Can they be targeted by any specials? Do you need to
> pay for them when they are put out again? etc...

Abducted!
Type: Special
Rarity: Rare
Description: 3¥. Treat target Runner as Fragged until the end of it's
owners next turn. Target Runner comes into play turned.

The Target Runner is pulled out of the game until said time has
passed. He's not considered Trashed, as certain cards allow you to
pull something from the Trash. You may as well effictively move him
off of the table, out of the room for that matter. Nothing may effect
him nor can he effect anything until he's allowed back into the game
or the game is over. Also, when a runner is fragged, any gear he had
on him is trashed (FASA FAQ or Game Q&A), so you can get really nasty
with a card like this.


> Does this count a "pulling out of a shadowrun"?

Good question. According to the response we have from FASA in the Game
Q&A I'd say so.

> Ambidextrous
>
> Can a pistol and a HTH weapon be used at the same time? Gramatically
> the card implies no....

No, only one type of weapon may be used per combat. (Ares Predator,
Katana, Hand Razors, Stun Gloves, FN MAG, etc.)

> Blindsided
>
> Does the player have to phase his own challenges first? Or does the
> owner of the objective still decide what is incountered first?

Owner of the Challenge. Unless he's already working through a stack in
which case he has to finish that one first.

> Chomps 2000 Guard Dog
>
> Can you use stun gloves on it when it is first revealed (if you ruled
> that the gloves are used in combat), since it technically doesn't
> deal damage.

Good question. Since it's not technically damage, I'd say the Stun
Gloves would work on him. But I'm not 100% certain in that.

> Gaurdian Earth/Fire Elemental
>
> Is the -2/-2 applied to each shaman or applied to the Elemental? If
> the latter why would you want to use them?

Guardian Fire Elemental
Type: Challenge
Description: (Awakened).
Notes: Unique. -2/-2 for each Shaman present on the shadowrun. If
Guardian Fire Elemental is defeated in combat, the shadowrunning
player receives +5 Reputation. Sleaze: Conjure-3. 10/12.

I'd say the -2/-2 applies to the GFE, as there are other challenges
(i.e. Free Spirit and Toxic Spirit) that you have a better chance of
defeating/sleazing with a Shaman in your group.

As for the 2nd question, I don't use them. :o)

> Security Consultant
>
> We had been playing that if there isn't any challenges on your own
> stack, the shadowrun is imediately ended. Is this right or are you
> supposed to try to meet the requirements of the objective?

Security Consultant
Type: Challenge
Description: (Personnel)
Notes: Runner team must face top card of shadowrunning player's own
Challenge stack on this Objective. Trash new Challenge if sleazed or
defeated; otherwise, return it to top of Challenge stack. If player
has no Challenges on this Objective, then the shadowrun is over. Trash
after revealed.

Nope. You don't go on to the Objective. If you don't have one of your
own Challenges to face. The Shadowrun is over right then and there
just like failing a Hellish Traffic or Corpse Light. (This also counts
as Pulling Out.)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/29/97


_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
Message no. 6
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 03:04:21 CDT
Loki wrote:
>---Phillip G Jaros wrote:
>>
>>Stun Gloves
>>
>>Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
>>awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
>>latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?
>
>In response to your other post, I figure this one may take a FASA
>touch to settle it.

Sounds good to me. They will atleast respond to you. ;)

As if you need to use Stun Gloves in combat, and the challenge still
deals damage, Stun Gloves are rather useless (although still better
then the Remington).

>Also, only one type of weapon may be used per Runner in a given
>combat. So whoever it was that was asking about a Ambidextrous Lord
>Torgo with Katana's and Stun Gloves was making a moot point.

I can't imagine that you need to use the same type of weapon.
The line about "only one type of weapon may be used per Runner in
a given combat" is said to prevent someone from saying they are using
a Panther Assult Cannon, 2 Berettas, a Are Preditor and a Katana
in this combat. Ambidextrous allows a user to use 2 pistols
(ie 2 Berettas, A berreta and a Ceska, 2 Preditors etc...) or 2
HTH weapons (ie 2 Katanas, a Katana and a Hand Razors etc...)
or (if you read the card loosely) a pistol and a HTH weapon.
If it HAS to be the exact same weapon it is a pretty bad card.

You can only have 4 of one weapon in a deck and most decks have
60 or so cards in them so the odds of getting two of the same
weapons and Ambidextrous (assumming you don't have multiples
since it is a Rare) is not that good.

This of course is IMHO....

Could you PLEASE ask Fasa about using two types of Pistols with
Ambedextrous as well?

>One other thing, since stun gloves are a weapon. If you use them, I
>would expect that you don't also deal damage. You either trash the
>target or you don't. I would expect this is taking place during a
>weapon's normal damage dealing phase, so your target gets to deal
>their damage before being trashed. (Kinda like the example of Chomps
>2000 getting dropped to a 6/0 by Milk Run. He's trashed because of his
>Body being a zero but he'll deal his damage first.)
>
>Does any of that make sense?

I understand what you are saying, but I still can't imagine it
being used to often if the Challenge is allowed to deal it's
damage. Anyone who has a decent chance of using the Stun Gloves
(ie Melee of 2 or more) would be better off slugging it out with
a couple of other runners, rather then give up it's attack value.

Which is why I mentioned the Ambidextrous/Katana/Stun Glove problem
as one would prevent dealing damage and the other makes you deal
more damage...

>>Ambidextrous
>>
>>Can a pistol and a HTH weapon be used at the same time? Gramatically
>>the card implies no....
>
>No, only one type of weapon may be used per combat. (Ares Predator,
>Katana, Hand Razors, Stun Gloves, FN MAG, etc.)

See my above comments.... ;)



--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 19:52:28 -0700
(everything about stun gloves moved to another state.)

> >"Somewhat fragged" runners are out of play for all intents and purposes
> >- they can't be affected by any card, special, or effect; they are not
> >present in your trash pile to rescue with a Squatter, nor their Gear
> >their to Chop Shop; they don't need to be paid for again, nor their
> >upkeep met. They're not there.

> >>Does this count a "pulling out of a shadowrun"?

> >It wouldn't matter - they couldn't be affected by the Bounty Hunter.

> I take it you mean that "fragged" runners are immune to every card,
> because they for all intents and purposes do not exist. Right?
> Because I wasn't just reffering to Abducted!, but Barney Phyffe and
> a couple of other cards as well...

I was actually thinking of Brain Freeze, but the Decker actually stays
in play on that one - you just don't get to peek at his current Body.

But basically, a card that's "considered fragged" can't be touched.
(There are some MtG equivalents - Oubliette from Alpha to Unlimited; Icy
Prison (?) from Ice Age. They're "out of play" and can't be affected by
any card effect - except the Ring of Ma'Ruf, interestingly enough.)


-Matb. Matb. One T!
Message no. 8
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 1997 20:09:15 -0700
> >>Stun Gloves

> >>Can thes sleaze awakened challenges, or do they just trash
> >>awakened challenges after the alarm is sounded? And if it is the
> >>latter is the challenge able to deal damage before it is trashed?

(snip)

> As if you need to use Stun Gloves in combat, and the challenge still
> deals damage, Stun Gloves are rather useless (although still better
> then the Remington).

Nothing's more useless than the Remington ;) Even if the Challenge
deals damage - I can live with that - the Stun Gloves will take out the
Challenge no matter what, whether it's a 6/6 weenie or a pumped-up
(Crossfire) 44/48 slambanger. Or even if your Runner has been Fatigued
into near non-commission, or Rough Nighted below worthlessness.

So, if you want to see Uncle Joe with three Melee skillsofts, Stun
Gloves, Heavy (Full), a Heal spell and a buncha stimpatches do a run all
by his own self, well.. that's an awful lot of cards, but you go,
girl!

-M
Message no. 9
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 18:39:47 -0700
---Phillip G Jaros wrote:
>
> >Also, only one type of weapon may be used per Runner in a given
> >combat. So whoever it was that was asking about a Ambidextrous Lord
> >Torgo with Katana's and Stun Gloves was making a moot point.
>
> I can't imagine that you need to use the same type of weapon.
> The line about "only one type of weapon may be used per Runner in
> a given combat" is said to prevent someone from saying they are using
> a Panther Assult Cannon, 2 Berettas, a Are Preditor and a Katana
> in this combat. Ambidextrous allows a user to use 2 pistols
> (ie 2 Berettas, A berreta and a Ceska, 2 Preditors etc...) or 2
> HTH weapons (ie 2 Katanas, a Katana and a Hand Razors etc...)
> or (if you read the card loosely) a pistol and a HTH weapon.
> If it HAS to be the exact same weapon it is a pretty bad card.
>
> You can only have 4 of one weapon in a deck and most decks have
> 60 or so cards in them so the odds of getting two of the same
> weapons and Ambidextrous (assumming you don't have multiples
> since it is a Rare) is not that good.
>
> This of course is IMHO....
>
> Could you PLEASE ask Fasa about using two types of Pistols with
> Ambedextrous as well?

Ambidextrous does bend the standard weapons rules. I was answering the
previous post between calls at work, and so hadn't thought out the big
picture. I should have stuck with type referring to class of weapon,
not specific kinds (IOW - Pistol, HTH, etc.) Considering I've used
both a Beretta and Ares Predator on Flatline at the same time, I'd
have to agree with you on different kinds of a Pistol working with
Ambidexterity.

Ambidextrous
Type: Special
Rarity: Rare
Description: 2¥. Target Runner may use two pistols or Hand-to-Hand
Weapons simultaneously. Leave this card on target Runner when played.

Considering the wording of the card, I don't know if I agree with a
Katana/Beretta combo. Seems to me that you may either use Pistols *OR*
HTH weapons. Not a combo of the two.

> >One other thing, since stun gloves are a weapon. If you use them, I
> >would expect that you don't also deal damage. You either trash the
> >target or you don't. I would expect this is taking place during a
> >weapon's normal damage dealing phase, so your target gets to deal
> >their damage before being trashed. (Kinda like the example of Chomps
> >2000 getting dropped to a 6/0 by Milk Run. He's trashed because of
his
> >Body being a zero but he'll deal his damage first.)
> >
> >Does any of that make sense?
>
> I understand what you are saying, but I still can't imagine it
> being used to often if the Challenge is allowed to deal it's
> damage. Anyone who has a decent chance of using the Stun Gloves
> (ie Melee of 2 or more) would be better off slugging it out with
> a couple of other runners, rather then give up it's attack value.

Not always true. A succesful attack with the Stun Gloves trashes the
Challenge no matter what. It could be a weenie or a pumpable monster
that nu yen took beyond reality. Sometimes your Big Bully's may have
other circumstances decreasing Attack Value and slugging it out may
not be the best option - Rough Night, damaged w/o Stamina, Armor, etc.

Sometimes it works to put Stun Gloves on the weenie in the group. His
damge may not make a difference normally anyways, but that lucky roll
with the Gloves may do the job if the Big Bullies don't. :o)

I'll be asking FASA, but I still feel since they're a Weapon, the
above (during normal combat) is how the Gloves are supposed to work.

-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 10
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 20:58:29 CDT
Loki wrote:
>Ambidextrous
>Type: Special
>Rarity: Rare
>Description: 2¥. Target Runner may use two pistols or Hand-to-Hand
>Weapons simultaneously. Leave this card on target Runner when played.
>
>Considering the wording of the card, I don't know if I agree with a
>Katana/Beretta combo. Seems to me that you may either use Pistols *OR*
>HTH weapons. Not a combo of the two.

So you agree with me on the gramar of the card. I was wondering if
other people played the looser interpretation, which I don't mind
either.

But this does bring up the question of Stun Gloves and a Katana being
used at the same time. Does Lord Torgo make the roll for the gloves
and add 14 damage, 5 damage or no damage?

>> I understand what you are saying, but I still can't imagine it
>> being used to often if the Challenge is allowed to deal it's
>> damage. Anyone who has a decent chance of using the Stun Gloves
>> (ie Melee of 2 or more) would be better off slugging it out with
>> a couple of other runners, rather then give up it's attack value.
>
>Not always true. A succesful attack with the Stun Gloves trashes the
>Challenge no matter what. It could be a weenie or a pumpable monster
>that nu yen took beyond reality. Sometimes your Big Bully's may have
>other circumstances decreasing Attack Value and slugging it out may
>not be the best option - Rough Night, damaged w/o Stamina, Armor, etc.

Yes, but that pumpable monster would end up killing me even if the
stun gloves work... so why use them? If the Big Bullies are beat that
close to death that fatigue makes them deal hardly any damage, any
combat challenge worth a darn will end up killing them as it is taken
out. And I have yet to see Rough Night make a differance in a game.

If Stun Gloves are reduced to used in battle, and the Challenge still
deals damage I will just put the 3 I have in my extra common box with
my two Remington 750s.




--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg Dillon Read
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 11
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Misc. Comments and Questions
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 19:20:09 -0700
---Phillip G Jaros wrote:
>
> >Considering the wording of the card, I don't know if I agree with a
> >Katana/Beretta combo. Seems to me that you may either use Pistols
*OR*
> >HTH weapons. Not a combo of the two.
>
> So you agree with me on the gramar of the card. I was wondering if
> other people played the looser interpretation, which I don't mind
> either.
>
> But this does bring up the question of Stun Gloves and a Katana being
> used at the same time. Does Lord Torgo make the roll for the gloves
> and add 14 damage, 5 damage or no damage?

It's a weird combo. I'd say you roll for the Stun Gloves and if it
doesn't trash The challenge outright then go ahead and deal the 14
points of damage. Nasty.

<snip>

> >Not always true. A succesful attack with the Stun Gloves trashes the
> >Challenge no matter what. It could be a weenie or a pumpable monster
> >that nu yen took beyond reality. Sometimes your Big Bully's may have
> >other circumstances decreasing Attack Value and slugging it out may
> >not be the best option - Rough Night, damaged w/o Stamina, Armor,
etc.
>
> Yes, but that pumpable monster would end up killing me even if the
> stun gloves work... so why use them? If the Big Bullies are beat
that
> close to death that fatigue makes them deal hardly any damage, any
> combat challenge worth a darn will end up killing them as it is taken
> out. And I have yet to see Rough Night make a differance in a game.
>
> If Stun Gloves are reduced to used in battle, and the Challenge still
> deals damage I will just put the 3 I have in my extra common box with
> my two Remington 750s.

The pumpable is only one of the exampls I gave in use for Stun Gloves
(SG). It's also possibly that the damage wouldn't kill your entire
group and that after SG trashed the challege you would get by it. Six
nu yen makes the Mage Strike Force a 12/12 (A4), that armor of 4 can
make it a bitch to deal a full 12 and kill them off. Playing my deck,
I usually have more nu yen in cacher and a MSF of 18/18 (A7) isn't
unheard of. SG doesn't care about armor, it will trash them anyways.
You may still have to dole out 12-18 points of damage, but chances are
with most runner teams you'll still have one or two that moves on to
the Objective.

Let me also mention, I don't even play with SG in a deck and I still
face such challenges and deal with 'em. I also recon and sleaze, or
beef up with other weapons and armor. It seems you may be putting a
bit too much value on SG, or expecting them to be more than what they
really are.

I'm just not going to buy that SG are a possible auto-selaze. They're
a Weapon, the keyword is on the card. I have yet to see any weapon in
the SRTCG that's used before the alarm is sounded, or any other time
before actual combat.

Still, I'm waiting for the official word back from FASA.

-== Loki ==-
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SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/29/97

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