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Message no. 1
From: Brett Borger bxb121@***.edu
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:39:23 -0400 (EDT)
What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
in continuing to play, but....
Message no. 2
From: David Reis david.reis@*****.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:55:25 -0700
At 10:39 AM 4/5/99 -0400, Brett Borger <bxb121@***.edu> wrote:
>What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
>in continuing to play, but....

The Amerindian Expansion is at

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/amerind.htm

From there, follow the Other Card List Spoilers link to the Containment
Zone and the High Seas expansions.

David
Message no. 3
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:12:46 PDT
>What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
>in continuing to play, but....

Some of the net.expansions can be found on my webpage; I believe someone
posted the URL to the website, but here it is just in case:

www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

I've been off-list for some time now (or rather, I can manage to read
what's been posted to the list, but not post to it myself). I've been
working on a number of new cards and new expansion sets. My main
project at the moment is Shadowrun: 2060, which fills in the gap that
FASA's Second Run, which will no longer be printed, has left -- it
revises a number of First Edition and Underworld cards, and introduces a
number of new Runners to replace Prime Runners and others. (Some of
these are experienced versions of a previous card, to use an L5R term.)

There's also a stand-alone set called The Factory, which focuses almost
exclusively on Cyborgs, Riggers, and Deckers (and the proper Gear for
all of them.) That will probably follow SR2060 by a few weeks.months.

I have no idea when I may be complete. If you don't mind passing this
on to the list, I'd like to see what how many people would be interested
in this sort of thing.


- Matt
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Message no. 4
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:39:02 MDT
Hoi,

>I've been off-list for some time now (or rather, I can manage to
>read what's been posted to the list, but not post to it myself).
>I've been working on a number of new cards and new expansion sets.
>My main project at the moment is Shadowrun: 2060, which fills in the
>gap that FASA's Second Run, which will no longer be printed, has
>left -- it revises a number of First Edition and Underworld cards,
>and introduces a number of new Runners to replace Prime Runners and
>others. (Some of these are experienced versions of a previous card,
>to use an L5R term.)

>There's also a stand-alone set called The Factory, which focuses
>almost exclusively on Cyborgs, Riggers, and Deckers (and the proper
>Gear for all of them.) That will probably follow SR2060 by a few
>weeks.months.
>
>I have no idea when I may be complete. If you don't mind passing
>this on to the list, I'd like to see what how many people would be
>interested in this sort of thing.
>
>- Matt

Sounds spiffy. I would love to see a copy of the cards hit the list
when they are ready. Or just send them private if too many people
object. I like the fact that someone else is still working on cards
besides myself. :) I look forward to see what changes have been made.


*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


_______________________________________________________________
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Message no. 5
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:30:55 PDT
Don. if you can pass this on to the list, it'd be great.

>Sounds spiffy. I would love to see a copy of the cards hit the list
>when they are ready. Or just send them private if too many people
>object. I like the fact that someone else is still working on cards
>besides myself. :) I look forward to see what changes have been
>made.

Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
this in mind.

Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed. Locations
in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner can visit
them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any player --
they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to their owner
besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials would play
off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner a chance to
visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would make all
Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

By and large the current Locations in the game would not be changed
by these rules. Most of Locations would count as Closed, with the
exception of the Corporate HQs (including Fuchi) and Lone Star Lock-
Up, which would all be declared Open.

Because there could now be Runners owned by several different players
at the same Location, some new Specials would come into play, and
Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social skill) would
have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would become a bit
easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards like Bar Fight
and Wanted would still be able to be played, to attack any Runner in
play.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's
a rather drastic change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback (or advantage) that might throw
things out of whack.



- Matt

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Message no. 6
From: >>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< axlrose@**********.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:54:48 -0400 (EDT)
Matt scribed:
>Don. if you can pass this on to the list, it'd be great.

Unless I am seeing things differently, your post did seem to make it to the
list via you Matt. Nothing forwarded nor cut and paste - direct from you
*shrug*.


>Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I assume that in place of location (your text below), contact could be
inserted? Unless you have other ideas for contacts and wanted to see the
reactions to your proposed locations changes first, you did not mention
any revised rules just on contacts alone.

<Snipped the definition of present...>


>Some Gear and Specials would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would
allow the >Runner a chance to visit any Location in play, while Lone Star
Curfew would make all
>Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

On the other hand, there should be gear and specials that would counter
stuff like the curfew and 'Lockpicks'. Also, perhaps the locations
themselves should be expanded to be more diverse in nature. Though game
mechanics would allow a curfew to close off Fuchi, why should a
matrix-based location be affected by a physical 'barrier'? Or my proposed
'Black Ice' from many months back directly affect a physical location?
Unless you were going to elaborate on the open and closed aspects and what
can and can not affect them, a bit of confusion might originate.

Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game (advanced
rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are open, but are more
prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a runner's activities are more
noticed. Meanwhile night closes down everything, but brings out the
runners (and vampires - right Don?). Locations have added security to deal
with... It would make for an interesting game to see a security decker
challenge placed onto Fuchi (turned over) so when a decker comes wandering
in, a challenge for a location. Or the maglock on another headquarters.
Though some places might seem void of such protections - Dante's Inferno
for instance, a whole slew of new challenges could be invented.

<Snipped drawing safe house locations early...>


>The Safehouse would also be protected from being Cherrybombed / Ghost
Danced out of >play. If a player loses control of his Safehouse, Bad
Things happen.

The potentials are endless here. Why not have rules that if a safe house
is empty, say everyone went to a location, on a run, etc., with the place
empty, a time bomb can be then planted? Or magical wards can be placed
onto a location, so an opponent's runner would have to by-pass a challenge
to get into the place? Why limit potential?

<Snipped open and closed examples...>


>I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's a
rather drastic >change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback >(or advantage) that might throw things
out of whack.

>- Matt

Here is another drastic change to consider. The alarm is not on during a
run. Your running team comes across a challenge that involves one of my
personnel. As you decide what to do with the fact that you can not sleaze
it, I add weaponry to my challenge, thus giving it the edge found in guns.
So you decide to take on my challenge, setting the alarm off. But half
your team is carrying ~only~ hand-to-hand weapons while the other is
packing. Round #1 - the weapons exchange fire while the h-t-h move into
position, thus potentially taking damage, but not attacking. Round #2, if
the challenge survives, now your h-t-h runners can engage.

Another example : the same scenario as above, except all your runners are
carrying h-t-h weapons. Again I give my challenge a gun and because you
can not sleaze, you begin combat. Round #1 - my challenge inflicts damage
as your team moves into position, setting off alarms and whatnot. Round #2
- you may begin combat with the h-t-h weapons.

I can elaborate a bit more, taking the alarms into play, sleaze or not, and
which challenges can be given weaponry if there is a desire.

A sliver of life still in the game, no?
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 7
From: Almyghty@***.com Almyghty@***.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:17 EDT
In a message dated 4/10/1999 7:31:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
mrbreton@*******.com writes:

<< Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
this in mind.

Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed. Locations
in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner can visit
them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any player --
they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to their owner
besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials would play
off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner a chance to
visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would make all
Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

By and large the current Locations in the game would not be changed
by these rules. Most of Locations would count as Closed, with the
exception of the Corporate HQs (including Fuchi) and Lone Star Lock-
Up, which would all be declared Open.

Because there could now be Runners owned by several different players
at the same Location, some new Specials would come into play, and
Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social skill) would
have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would become a bit
easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards like Bar Fight
and Wanted would still be able to be played, to attack any Runner in
play.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's
a rather drastic change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback (or advantage) that might throw
things out of whack.



- Matt >>


I think it sounds kinda cool, except for making any of the current locations
"open," as when they were designed, they were obviously not intended that
way. Making new locations with the "open" option doesn't sound bad, though.
Message no. 8
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:00:52 MDT
Hoi,

>Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

>I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
>would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
>their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
>would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
>this in mind.

This I always agreed with. If a runner is visiting a location he/she
should not be in the safehouse. It was one way to protect your
runners from time bombs and bar fights. However if cherry visited a
location that one of your runners were visiting, I feel that the
runner would also be effected by cherries presence.

>Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed.
>Locations in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner
>can visit them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any
>player -- they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to
>their owner besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials
>would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner
>a chance to visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would
>make all Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

sounds reasonalble to me. It also opens up several possibilites for
new gear/specials/spells.

>Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
>search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
>her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
>declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
>Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
>(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
>forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
>Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
>of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

I really like the potential that this has. Unfortunatly it does have
some drawbacks. With the means of disposing of the location greatly
reduced, fuchi runners have alot less to worry about. (just an
example from the top of my head.)

>Because there could now be Runners owned by several different
>players at the same Location, some new Specials would come into
>play, and Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social
>skill) would have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would
>become a bit easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards
>like Bar Fight and Wanted would still be able to be played, to
>attack any Runner in play.

I like the posibility of easier access to runner vs. runner combat.
Having built several decks that use this, I think it would open
another unsued avenue of the game.



*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


_______________________________________________________________
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Message no. 9
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:17:30 PDT
I've seen a number of responses; I'm responding directly to Axlrose's,
since he brought up a number of good points, but I may address things
other people posted too. - I reserve the right to be inconsistent.

>I assume that in place of location (your text below), contact could
>be inserted? Unless you have other ideas for contacts and wanted to
>see the reactions to your proposed locations changes first, you did
>not mention any revised rules just on contacts alone.

Could be. Most of the Contacts in the game at the moment (that is,
officially) don't require Runners to visit them -- the few that do
(Yoshimo Chang comes to mind) don't _really_ need Runners to do so.

The only exception to this (I could be mistaken here) is Basket
Weaver, from the Amerind Expansion, and since that's not really an
official card . . . .

>>Some Gear and Specials would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance,
>would allow the >Runner a chance to visit any Location in play, while
>Lone Star Curfew would make all Locations Closed -- except to Lone
>Star Runners, of course!

>On the other hand, there should be gear and specials that would
>counter stuff like the curfew and 'Lockpicks'.

After a fashion, there already are: Poor Craftsmanship, Street Scum,
and The Funhouse could all end up trashing Lockpicks; LOTI or State of
Confusion could mung the Curfew. While I would like to see Locations
play a more active role in the game, I don't believe that making new
cards powerful enough that they need distinct hosers is all that
beneficial to the game.

You have a good point about the Curfew and Matrix Locations; it would
also seem that LS Curfew and Lone Star Lock-up would be another
potential powerhouse combination. (Especially since Long Arm of the
Law can also be stirred into that combo.)

As Don mentioned, there could be any number of Gear cards and Specials
that play off of this. I'm also thinking about Runners and Objectives
that take advantage of these rules as well.

>Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game
>(advanced rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are
>open, but are more prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a runner's
>activities are more noticed. Meanwhile night closes down everything,
>but brings out the runners (and vampires - right Don?). Locations
>have added security to deal with.

I'm still working through a number of different ideas for Open and
Closed Locations.

Almyghty made a good comment about dealing with Locations that already
exist in the game. My first tenet in designing net.cards is always,
do no harm. No reason to smash a card (even a weak card) that already
exists in the set.

Fuchi, Dante's Inferno, The Iron Lung, and Lone Star Lock-up are the
four guinea pig locations that I'm using; they seem to invite the most
abuse. Fuchi is an interesting consideration because it pretty much
creates its own deck style; allowing "anyone" to visit doesn't strike
me (overtly) as an immense drawback, since a) you really almost have
to be playing against another Fuchi deck for it to be a liability;
meaning b) it isn't that big a deal if you can visit his or he can
visit yours, since you're both likely to end up putting them into play
anyway.

It does eliminate one deck style (the Fuchi-ready-for-Fuchi deck,
replete with Cherry Bombs); it also serves to create what I think
might be a more interesting deck, which is a non-Fuchi based Decker
deck. Ready for regular runs, with the potential that you can earn
some extra Y or Reputation in the down-time.

One reason why I mentioned making all Corp HQ Locations Open was that
it served to make Fuchi fit the "style" better (since, in the SR
universe, anyone _can_ make a run against the corp), without needing
to rewrite the card. Most of the Corp HQs in the game aren't bothered
by this rule, since Ares, Aztechnology (I think) and Renraku affect
every player in the game already. It does alter the unreleased Corp
HQs in Corp War, and in a major way . . . and, well, I can live with
that.

As a final note, one of the cards I had in mind would serve to turn a
Closed Location into an Open Location -- so it's all rather moot,
anyway.

>It would make for an interesting >game to see a security decker
>challenge placed onto Fuchi (turned over) so when a decker comes
>wandering in, a challenge for a location. Or the maglock on another
>headquarters.

A whole new slew of Challenges indeed! Again, I hate to rewrite old
cards (and Maglocks and the Sec Decker are already pretty jam-packed)
but I could see some multi-functional Challenges like these.

><Snipped drawing safe house locations early...>

One note about choosing Fuchi as a Safehouse: You can't (logically)
visit a Location you're already present at. Putting Fuchi into play
as your Safehouse means you rock when you get another Location to
visit (since you can then bounce back and forth between the two), but
it may just end up helping your opponent first.

The Iron Lung could end up really vicious; your opponent could visit
first, but he might just end up bumping into a Big Strong Troll of
yours on his way through the door . . . . That being said, right now
I'm working on a number of cards that work as Safehouses, rather than
retrofit text onto existing cards.

I think it's an interesting idea to allow the game to begin with a
Location in play; that rule could always be limited to only beginning
with a Safehouse in play. However, that means the Safehouses would
all have to have either a negligible bonus (since a player who doesn't
llike or never heard of the idea would then be at a distinct
disadvantage) or that they'd all be balanced off with some drawback.
Neither idea I like much.

>>The Safehouse would also be protected from being Cherrybombed /
>>Ghost Danced out of >play. If a player loses control of his
>>Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

>The potentials are endless here. Why not have rules that if a safe
>house is empty, say everyone went to a location, on a run, etc., with
>the place empty, a time bomb can be then planted? Or magical wards
>can be placed onto a location, so an opponent's runner would have to
>by-pass a challenge to get into the place? Why limit potential?

I can see these working as specific cards. I'm not so sure about
generic rules, though . . . . hmmmm.

>Here is another drastic change to consider. The alarm is not on
>during a run. Your running team comes across a challenge that
>involves one of my personnel.

A la Runners on Retainer, or a la Security Guards?

>As you decide what to do with the fact that you can not sleaze
>it, I add weaponry to my challenge, thus giving it the edge found in
>guns. So you decide to take on my challenge, setting the alarm off.
>But half your team is carrying ~only~ hand-to-hand weapons while the
>other is packing.

>Round #1 - the weapons exchange fire while the h-t-h move into
>position, thus potentially taking damage, but not attacking.

>Round #2, if the challenge survives, now your h-t-h runners can
>engage.

While I think HtH weapons have the definite advantage over Ranged
Weapons in the current situation, I'm not sure having multiple rounds
of combat is a good thing -- I think most Runners would get wasted
pretty quickly. (Note: by current rules, Challenges don't suffer
Fatigue. Changing that would even things out some, but maybe not
enough.)

Would Challenges be assumed to be armed with ranged weapons, or HtH?
I mean, Razorhead Turf would seem to obvious fall into the HtH
category, which would make them a pretty weak Challenge. The Guardian
Dracoform should be kick-ass no matter what, but (outside of altering
the card) it would seem to also only attack in the HtH 'phase' of
combat. ('Salvo' of combat? 'Thrust'? Come better phrase than phase
or round or turn.) Allowing Runners a freebie at it before it can
damage them seriously weakens most Challenges. Ranged Weapons should
be kick-butt... just not *that* kick-butt.

However, the more I think about this, the more I like it as a general
rule (rather than a specific card). Let's work on this some more.



- Matt




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Message no. 10
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:47:01 MDT
Hoi,

>>Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game
>>(advanced rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are
>>open, but are more prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a
>>runner's activities are more noticed. Meanwhile night closes down
>>everything, but brings out the runners (and vampires - right
>>Don?).

Umm ya.

Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all the
vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic / insect /
critter / evil things based cards.

The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a card
that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you go
negitive you cannot go any further negative.) The second card is
would be a special that allows you to win the game if you have more
negative rep than your opponent has positive rep (or something like
that.) I'm still working on some of the details, but if anyone cares
to see what is already being done let me know.



*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


_______________________________________________________________
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Message no. 11
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:25:11 PDT
> Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all the
>vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic / insect /
>critter / evil things based cards.

Actually, I've been poking away at Evil Evil Things, too. I'll see if
I can bump what I've got to the list soon.

One of the things I'd been revising were the negative-Reputation
Objectives. Though those were an awful lot of fun....

> The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
>trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
>flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
>it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a card
>that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you go
>negitive you cannot go any further negative.)

I've always thought this rule was kinda silly.

One of my long-standing tournament rules, though, has been that if you
get negative Reputation greater than the amount of positive Rep needed
to win the game, you lose. (In other words, if the game's to 80 Rep,
and you get -90, yerrrrout!)

> The second card is
>would be a special that allows you to win the game if you have more
>negative rep than your opponent has positive rep (or something like
>that.)

I'd be a leeetle bit cautious with that one, since it could lead to an
early (first or second-round) win. You could whip out, say, a 3 or 4Y
Runner (...Stiletto, any mage), toss out a Bar Fight (free), and hit
yourself with a Bad Reputation. First round, your down to -10 Rep;
your opponent's at zero; if the cost of the Neg-Rep special is less
than 8Y, you win this turn or next. Admittedly, it's a four-card
combo, but with SRTCG's ability to shuffle through a lot of cards
quickly, it's not impossible.

(To make matters worse, in one of my net.expansions, I have a Runner
you can start the game with; one of the Safehouses I had planned for
SR2060 would allow you to start a fight as well. That reduces it to
two cards. No fun.)

So possible limits might be that you can't play it at greater than -30
Rep, or your opponent has to have +30 Rep -- an interesting variant
might adjust the cost depending on how much negrep you do have. (I
mean, -10 is still _really_ small fry.) But I think neg-rep adds a
lot of interesting potential to the game. Just don't make it too
easy.


- Matt




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Message no. 12
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:01:59 MDT
>>Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all
>>the vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic /
>>insect / critter / evil things based cards.
>
>Actually, I've been poking away at Evil Evil Things, too. I'll see
>if I can bump what I've got to the list soon.
>
>One of the things I'd been revising were the negative-Reputation
>Objectives. Though those were an awful lot of fun....

There still there... and yes they are LOTS of fun.


>> The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
>>trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
>>flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
>>it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a
>>card that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you
>>go negitive you cannot go any further negative.)

>I've always thought this rule was kinda silly.

Me too

>> The second card would be a special that allows you to win the game
>>if you have more negative rep than your opponent has positive rep
>>(or something like that.)

>I'd be a leeetle bit cautious with that one, since it could lead to
>an early (first or second-round) win. You could whip out, say, a 3
>or 4Y Runner (...Stiletto, any mage), toss out a Bar Fight (free),
>and hit yourself with a Bad Reputation. First round, your down to -
>10 Rep; your opponent's at zero; if the cost of the Neg-Rep special
>is less than 8Y, you win this turn or next. Admittedly, it's a four-
>card combo, but with SRTCG's ability to shuffle through a lot of
>cards quickly, it's not impossible.

Well I haven't made it that easy... But with some of the other cards
I have made the accumulation of negitive rep real easy and it can add
up at a pretty good rate.

>(To make matters worse, in one of my net.expansions, I have a Runner
>you can start the game with; one of the Safehouses I had planned for
>SR2060 would allow you to start a fight as well. That reduces it to
>two cards. No fun.)
>
>So possible limits might be that you can't play it at greater than -
>30 Rep, or your opponent has to have +30 Rep -- an interesting
>variant might adjust the cost depending on how much negrep you do
>have. (I mean, -10 is still _really_ small fry.) But I think neg-
>rep adds a lot of interesting potential to the game. Just don't
>make it too easy.

Here are the two cards in question:

AGENT OF DARKNESS / Contact / 4¥
Agent of Darkness can only be played if the owner currently has
negitive reputation. Agent of Darkness cannot be removed from play
by any means as long as any player has negitive reputation. Any
player may accumulate negitive reputation. Media Chick cannot be
used or deployed by any player controlling Agent of Darkness.

DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH / Special / 0¥
Play only when you have 50 points of negitive reputation or twice as
much negitive reputation as the highest positive reputation of your
opponents, which ever is greater. You instantly win the game.
Darkness Covers the Earth cannot be canceled or redirected.

I figure things need to be really really evil for the evil guy to
win, so that is why the double negitive rep is required. I made
agent of darkness nessicary to avoid first or second round kills. It
also fixes well I pump 10 nuyen into media chick then just pull out.
That would be wwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to easy to win. There
are lots of cards in the expansion that give you negitive rep for
using, and they add up quickly but for every 20 points of rep you
opponent gets you need to come up with 40. So I think it will work
out.

I'll post the whole set a little later if anyone wants.

*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


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Message no. 13
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:48:24 PDT
>>>Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>>>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all
>>>the vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic /
>>>insect / critter / evil things based cards.

This sounds .. interesting. Drat, and those Vampires were a lot of
fun, too! I'd love to see the insect/toxic shaman stuff you've some
up with.

>Here are the two cards in question:

>AGENT OF DARKNESS / Contact / 4¥
>Agent of Darkness can only be played if the owner currently has
>negitive reputation. Agent of Darkness cannot be removed from play
>by any means as long as any player has negitive reputation. Any
>player may accumulate negitive reputation. Media Chick cannot be
>used or deployed by any player controlling Agent of Darkness.

Assuming the people agree to the rule change (re accumulating negative
rep), I don't see much use for him. (Come to think of it, most people
seem to agree that Media Chick should be limited in the number of used
per turn.)

I guess my feeling toward the card is -- what else does he do?
Admittedly, he makes it more likely to win via negative rep in
SRTCG-straight (as opposed to SRTCG-2060; I'm rapidly accunmulating
rules for the set), but a little more punch to the guy would be
helpful.

>DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH / Special / 0¥
>Play only when you have 50 points of negitive reputation or twice as
>much negitive reputation as the highest positive reputation of your
>opponents, which ever is greater. You instantly win the game.
>Darkness Covers the Earth cannot be canceled or redirected.

Hmm. It strikes me as potentially unfair that in a long game
(positive rep to win of a hundred or higher) someone could relatively
quickly pull off a negative rep win. With some decks (Gabe's May I
deck, for instance), it's not that hard to limit how fast other
players can earn Rep. I'd rather see this linked to the Rep needed to
win the game, rather than other player's totals or some arbitrary
nunmber -- it makes the card more flexible to different playing
styles.

Keeping in mind that it's possible to sabotage yourself with Bad
Reputations and Cowards -- after a fashion, a card like this promotes
Bully Decks, since (at the moment). Crunch an opponent, and earn Rep
toward winning.

I'd be interested in seeing other cards that use negative Reputation
in interesting ways. How about a Runner like:

MANDRAKE / Toxic Shaman / 3¥
3/3. Human. Mandrake gains Conjure+1 for every fifteen points of
negative Reputation owner has.

Or a Location?:

DEN OF EVIL / Location (Underworld) / 3¥
Trash Den of Evil if you have positive Reputation.
At the beginning of your turn, gain 1¥ for every Den of Evil you
control. At the end of your turn, lose all ¥ on your Credstick.
Safehouse: Runners at Den of Evil may not be Arrested.

Or a Special?

GRAFT AND BRIBERY / Special / 3¥
Trash Graft and Bribery if you have positive Reputation.
Treat all Lone Star Runners you control as Corrupt Lone Star Runners.
You may turn a Corrupt Lone Star Runner to (... Matt's brain suddenly
begins leaking fluid ...)



- Matt

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Message no. 14
From: Brett Borger bxb121@***.edu
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 5 Apr 1999 10:39:23 -0400 (EDT)
What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
in continuing to play, but....
Message no. 15
From: David Reis david.reis@*****.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 08:55:25 -0700
At 10:39 AM 4/5/99 -0400, Brett Borger <bxb121@***.edu> wrote:
>What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
>in continuing to play, but....

The Amerindian Expansion is at

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/amerind.htm

From there, follow the Other Card List Spoilers link to the Containment
Zone and the High Seas expansions.

David
Message no. 16
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Tue, 06 Apr 1999 18:12:46 PDT
>What is the URL to find the net.expansions for SRTCG? I'm interested
>in continuing to play, but....

Some of the net.expansions can be found on my webpage; I believe someone
posted the URL to the website, but here it is just in case:

www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

I've been off-list for some time now (or rather, I can manage to read
what's been posted to the list, but not post to it myself). I've been
working on a number of new cards and new expansion sets. My main
project at the moment is Shadowrun: 2060, which fills in the gap that
FASA's Second Run, which will no longer be printed, has left -- it
revises a number of First Edition and Underworld cards, and introduces a
number of new Runners to replace Prime Runners and others. (Some of
these are experienced versions of a previous card, to use an L5R term.)

There's also a stand-alone set called The Factory, which focuses almost
exclusively on Cyborgs, Riggers, and Deckers (and the proper Gear for
all of them.) That will probably follow SR2060 by a few weeks.months.

I have no idea when I may be complete. If you don't mind passing this
on to the list, I'd like to see what how many people would be interested
in this sort of thing.


- Matt
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Message no. 17
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Wed, 07 Apr 1999 16:39:02 MDT
Hoi,

>I've been off-list for some time now (or rather, I can manage to
>read what's been posted to the list, but not post to it myself).
>I've been working on a number of new cards and new expansion sets.
>My main project at the moment is Shadowrun: 2060, which fills in the
>gap that FASA's Second Run, which will no longer be printed, has
>left -- it revises a number of First Edition and Underworld cards,
>and introduces a number of new Runners to replace Prime Runners and
>others. (Some of these are experienced versions of a previous card,
>to use an L5R term.)

>There's also a stand-alone set called The Factory, which focuses
>almost exclusively on Cyborgs, Riggers, and Deckers (and the proper
>Gear for all of them.) That will probably follow SR2060 by a few
>weeks.months.
>
>I have no idea when I may be complete. If you don't mind passing
>this on to the list, I'd like to see what how many people would be
>interested in this sort of thing.
>
>- Matt

Sounds spiffy. I would love to see a copy of the cards hit the list
when they are ready. Or just send them private if too many people
object. I like the fact that someone else is still working on cards
besides myself. :) I look forward to see what changes have been made.


*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


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Message no. 18
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sat, 10 Apr 1999 17:30:55 PDT
Don. if you can pass this on to the list, it'd be great.

>Sounds spiffy. I would love to see a copy of the cards hit the list
>when they are ready. Or just send them private if too many people
>object. I like the fact that someone else is still working on cards
>besides myself. :) I look forward to see what changes have been
>made.

Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
this in mind.

Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed. Locations
in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner can visit
them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any player --
they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to their owner
besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials would play
off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner a chance to
visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would make all
Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

By and large the current Locations in the game would not be changed
by these rules. Most of Locations would count as Closed, with the
exception of the Corporate HQs (including Fuchi) and Lone Star Lock-
Up, which would all be declared Open.

Because there could now be Runners owned by several different players
at the same Location, some new Specials would come into play, and
Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social skill) would
have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would become a bit
easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards like Bar Fight
and Wanted would still be able to be played, to attack any Runner in
play.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's
a rather drastic change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback (or advantage) that might throw
things out of whack.



- Matt

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Message no. 19
From: >>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< axlrose@**********.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 13:54:48 -0400 (EDT)
Matt scribed:
>Don. if you can pass this on to the list, it'd be great.

Unless I am seeing things differently, your post did seem to make it to the
list via you Matt. Nothing forwarded nor cut and paste - direct from you
*shrug*.


>Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I assume that in place of location (your text below), contact could be
inserted? Unless you have other ideas for contacts and wanted to see the
reactions to your proposed locations changes first, you did not mention
any revised rules just on contacts alone.

<Snipped the definition of present...>


>Some Gear and Specials would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would
allow the >Runner a chance to visit any Location in play, while Lone Star
Curfew would make all
>Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

On the other hand, there should be gear and specials that would counter
stuff like the curfew and 'Lockpicks'. Also, perhaps the locations
themselves should be expanded to be more diverse in nature. Though game
mechanics would allow a curfew to close off Fuchi, why should a
matrix-based location be affected by a physical 'barrier'? Or my proposed
'Black Ice' from many months back directly affect a physical location?
Unless you were going to elaborate on the open and closed aspects and what
can and can not affect them, a bit of confusion might originate.

Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game (advanced
rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are open, but are more
prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a runner's activities are more
noticed. Meanwhile night closes down everything, but brings out the
runners (and vampires - right Don?). Locations have added security to deal
with... It would make for an interesting game to see a security decker
challenge placed onto Fuchi (turned over) so when a decker comes wandering
in, a challenge for a location. Or the maglock on another headquarters.
Though some places might seem void of such protections - Dante's Inferno
for instance, a whole slew of new challenges could be invented.

<Snipped drawing safe house locations early...>


>The Safehouse would also be protected from being Cherrybombed / Ghost
Danced out of >play. If a player loses control of his Safehouse, Bad
Things happen.

The potentials are endless here. Why not have rules that if a safe house
is empty, say everyone went to a location, on a run, etc., with the place
empty, a time bomb can be then planted? Or magical wards can be placed
onto a location, so an opponent's runner would have to by-pass a challenge
to get into the place? Why limit potential?

<Snipped open and closed examples...>


>I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's a
rather drastic >change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback >(or advantage) that might throw things
out of whack.

>- Matt

Here is another drastic change to consider. The alarm is not on during a
run. Your running team comes across a challenge that involves one of my
personnel. As you decide what to do with the fact that you can not sleaze
it, I add weaponry to my challenge, thus giving it the edge found in guns.
So you decide to take on my challenge, setting the alarm off. But half
your team is carrying ~only~ hand-to-hand weapons while the other is
packing. Round #1 - the weapons exchange fire while the h-t-h move into
position, thus potentially taking damage, but not attacking. Round #2, if
the challenge survives, now your h-t-h runners can engage.

Another example : the same scenario as above, except all your runners are
carrying h-t-h weapons. Again I give my challenge a gun and because you
can not sleaze, you begin combat. Round #1 - my challenge inflicts damage
as your team moves into position, setting off alarms and whatnot. Round #2
- you may begin combat with the h-t-h weapons.

I can elaborate a bit more, taking the alarms into play, sleaze or not, and
which challenges can be given weaponry if there is a desire.

A sliver of life still in the game, no?
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
Message no. 20
From: Almyghty@***.com Almyghty@***.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 14:36:17 EDT
In a message dated 4/10/1999 7:31:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
mrbreton@*******.com writes:

<< Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
this in mind.

Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed. Locations
in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner can visit
them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any player --
they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to their owner
besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials would play
off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner a chance to
visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would make all
Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

By and large the current Locations in the game would not be changed
by these rules. Most of Locations would count as Closed, with the
exception of the Corporate HQs (including Fuchi) and Lone Star Lock-
Up, which would all be declared Open.

Because there could now be Runners owned by several different players
at the same Location, some new Specials would come into play, and
Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social skill) would
have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would become a bit
easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards like Bar Fight
and Wanted would still be able to be played, to attack any Runner in
play.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts people might have on this -- it's
a rather drastic change to make to the game system, and I'm afraid of
overlooking some hideous drawback (or advantage) that might throw
things out of whack.



- Matt >>


I think it sounds kinda cool, except for making any of the current locations
"open," as when they were designed, they were obviously not intended that
way. Making new locations with the "open" option doesn't sound bad, though.
Message no. 21
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1999 13:00:52 MDT
Hoi,

>Some of the changes I'm thinking of involve Locations and Contacts.

>I had (long ago) made a proposal that Runners who visited a Location
>would count as being present at that Location until the beginning of
>their owner's next turn. In order to visit a Location, a Runner
>would have to leave his present Location and visit the second. Keep
>this in mind.

This I always agreed with. If a runner is visiting a location he/she
should not be in the safehouse. It was one way to protect your
runners from time bombs and bar fights. However if cherry visited a
location that one of your runners were visiting, I feel that the
runner would also be effected by cherries presence.

>Locations would fall into two categories; Open and Closed.
>Locations in the game presently count as Closed -- only their owner
>can visit them. Open Locations would be able to be visited by any
>player -- they might be cheaper to deploy, or offer an advantage to
>their owner besides just "visiting rights." Some Gear and Specials
>would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance, would allow the Runner
>a chance to visit any Location in play, while Lone Star Curfew would
>make all Locations Closed -- except to Lone Star Runners, of course!

sounds reasonalble to me. It also opens up several possibilites for
new gear/specials/spells.

>Before the game begins, each player would also have the option to
>search his or her draw pile and select one Location to use as his or
>her Safehouse. Certain Locations would gain enhanced abilities if
>declared as a player's Safehouse (the race Locations come to mind).
>Any Runners the player deploys would be present in his Safehouse
>(until they visit a second Location, attempt a shadowrun, and so
>forth). The Safehouse would also be protected from being
>Cherrybombed / Ghost Danced out of play. If a player loses control
>of his Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

I really like the potential that this has. Unfortunatly it does have
some drawbacks. With the means of disposing of the location greatly
reduced, fuchi runners have alot less to worry about. (just an
example from the top of my head.)

>Because there could now be Runners owned by several different
>players at the same Location, some new Specials would come into
>play, and Anti-social Runners (as well as Runners with the Social
>skill) would have other benefits. Runner-vs-Runner combat would
>become a bit easier (if you're present at the same Location); cards
>like Bar Fight and Wanted would still be able to be played, to
>attack any Runner in play.

I like the posibility of easier access to runner vs. runner combat.
Having built several decks that use this, I think it would open
another unsued avenue of the game.



*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


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Message no. 22
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:17:30 PDT
I've seen a number of responses; I'm responding directly to Axlrose's,
since he brought up a number of good points, but I may address things
other people posted too. - I reserve the right to be inconsistent.

>I assume that in place of location (your text below), contact could
>be inserted? Unless you have other ideas for contacts and wanted to
>see the reactions to your proposed locations changes first, you did
>not mention any revised rules just on contacts alone.

Could be. Most of the Contacts in the game at the moment (that is,
officially) don't require Runners to visit them -- the few that do
(Yoshimo Chang comes to mind) don't _really_ need Runners to do so.

The only exception to this (I could be mistaken here) is Basket
Weaver, from the Amerind Expansion, and since that's not really an
official card . . . .

>>Some Gear and Specials would play off this; Lockpicks, for instance,
>would allow the >Runner a chance to visit any Location in play, while
>Lone Star Curfew would make all Locations Closed -- except to Lone
>Star Runners, of course!

>On the other hand, there should be gear and specials that would
>counter stuff like the curfew and 'Lockpicks'.

After a fashion, there already are: Poor Craftsmanship, Street Scum,
and The Funhouse could all end up trashing Lockpicks; LOTI or State of
Confusion could mung the Curfew. While I would like to see Locations
play a more active role in the game, I don't believe that making new
cards powerful enough that they need distinct hosers is all that
beneficial to the game.

You have a good point about the Curfew and Matrix Locations; it would
also seem that LS Curfew and Lone Star Lock-up would be another
potential powerhouse combination. (Especially since Long Arm of the
Law can also be stirred into that combo.)

As Don mentioned, there could be any number of Gear cards and Specials
that play off of this. I'm also thinking about Runners and Objectives
that take advantage of these rules as well.

>Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game
>(advanced rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are
>open, but are more prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a runner's
>activities are more noticed. Meanwhile night closes down everything,
>but brings out the runners (and vampires - right Don?). Locations
>have added security to deal with.

I'm still working through a number of different ideas for Open and
Closed Locations.

Almyghty made a good comment about dealing with Locations that already
exist in the game. My first tenet in designing net.cards is always,
do no harm. No reason to smash a card (even a weak card) that already
exists in the set.

Fuchi, Dante's Inferno, The Iron Lung, and Lone Star Lock-up are the
four guinea pig locations that I'm using; they seem to invite the most
abuse. Fuchi is an interesting consideration because it pretty much
creates its own deck style; allowing "anyone" to visit doesn't strike
me (overtly) as an immense drawback, since a) you really almost have
to be playing against another Fuchi deck for it to be a liability;
meaning b) it isn't that big a deal if you can visit his or he can
visit yours, since you're both likely to end up putting them into play
anyway.

It does eliminate one deck style (the Fuchi-ready-for-Fuchi deck,
replete with Cherry Bombs); it also serves to create what I think
might be a more interesting deck, which is a non-Fuchi based Decker
deck. Ready for regular runs, with the potential that you can earn
some extra Y or Reputation in the down-time.

One reason why I mentioned making all Corp HQ Locations Open was that
it served to make Fuchi fit the "style" better (since, in the SR
universe, anyone _can_ make a run against the corp), without needing
to rewrite the card. Most of the Corp HQs in the game aren't bothered
by this rule, since Ares, Aztechnology (I think) and Renraku affect
every player in the game already. It does alter the unreleased Corp
HQs in Corp War, and in a major way . . . and, well, I can live with
that.

As a final note, one of the cards I had in mind would serve to turn a
Closed Location into an Open Location -- so it's all rather moot,
anyway.

>It would make for an interesting >game to see a security decker
>challenge placed onto Fuchi (turned over) so when a decker comes
>wandering in, a challenge for a location. Or the maglock on another
>headquarters.

A whole new slew of Challenges indeed! Again, I hate to rewrite old
cards (and Maglocks and the Sec Decker are already pretty jam-packed)
but I could see some multi-functional Challenges like these.

><Snipped drawing safe house locations early...>

One note about choosing Fuchi as a Safehouse: You can't (logically)
visit a Location you're already present at. Putting Fuchi into play
as your Safehouse means you rock when you get another Location to
visit (since you can then bounce back and forth between the two), but
it may just end up helping your opponent first.

The Iron Lung could end up really vicious; your opponent could visit
first, but he might just end up bumping into a Big Strong Troll of
yours on his way through the door . . . . That being said, right now
I'm working on a number of cards that work as Safehouses, rather than
retrofit text onto existing cards.

I think it's an interesting idea to allow the game to begin with a
Location in play; that rule could always be limited to only beginning
with a Safehouse in play. However, that means the Safehouses would
all have to have either a negligible bonus (since a player who doesn't
llike or never heard of the idea would then be at a distinct
disadvantage) or that they'd all be balanced off with some drawback.
Neither idea I like much.

>>The Safehouse would also be protected from being Cherrybombed /
>>Ghost Danced out of >play. If a player loses control of his
>>Safehouse, Bad Things happen.

>The potentials are endless here. Why not have rules that if a safe
>house is empty, say everyone went to a location, on a run, etc., with
>the place empty, a time bomb can be then planted? Or magical wards
>can be placed onto a location, so an opponent's runner would have to
>by-pass a challenge to get into the place? Why limit potential?

I can see these working as specific cards. I'm not so sure about
generic rules, though . . . . hmmmm.

>Here is another drastic change to consider. The alarm is not on
>during a run. Your running team comes across a challenge that
>involves one of my personnel.

A la Runners on Retainer, or a la Security Guards?

>As you decide what to do with the fact that you can not sleaze
>it, I add weaponry to my challenge, thus giving it the edge found in
>guns. So you decide to take on my challenge, setting the alarm off.
>But half your team is carrying ~only~ hand-to-hand weapons while the
>other is packing.

>Round #1 - the weapons exchange fire while the h-t-h move into
>position, thus potentially taking damage, but not attacking.

>Round #2, if the challenge survives, now your h-t-h runners can
>engage.

While I think HtH weapons have the definite advantage over Ranged
Weapons in the current situation, I'm not sure having multiple rounds
of combat is a good thing -- I think most Runners would get wasted
pretty quickly. (Note: by current rules, Challenges don't suffer
Fatigue. Changing that would even things out some, but maybe not
enough.)

Would Challenges be assumed to be armed with ranged weapons, or HtH?
I mean, Razorhead Turf would seem to obvious fall into the HtH
category, which would make them a pretty weak Challenge. The Guardian
Dracoform should be kick-ass no matter what, but (outside of altering
the card) it would seem to also only attack in the HtH 'phase' of
combat. ('Salvo' of combat? 'Thrust'? Come better phrase than phase
or round or turn.) Allowing Runners a freebie at it before it can
damage them seriously weakens most Challenges. Ranged Weapons should
be kick-butt... just not *that* kick-butt.

However, the more I think about this, the more I like it as a general
rule (rather than a specific card). Let's work on this some more.



- Matt




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Message no. 23
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 10:47:01 MDT
Hoi,

>>Perhaps if you worked in the day and night aspects to the game
>>(advanced rules per se), during the daylight hours locations are
>>open, but are more prone to snag a 'Wanted' character. Or a
>>runner's activities are more noticed. Meanwhile night closes down
>>everything, but brings out the runners (and vampires - right
>>Don?).

Umm ya.

Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all the
vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic / insect /
critter / evil things based cards.

The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a card
that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you go
negitive you cannot go any further negative.) The second card is
would be a special that allows you to win the game if you have more
negative rep than your opponent has positive rep (or something like
that.) I'm still working on some of the details, but if anyone cares
to see what is already being done let me know.



*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


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Message no. 24
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Thu, 22 Apr 1999 17:25:11 PDT
> Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all the
>vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic / insect /
>critter / evil things based cards.

Actually, I've been poking away at Evil Evil Things, too. I'll see if
I can bump what I've got to the list soon.

One of the things I'd been revising were the negative-Reputation
Objectives. Though those were an awful lot of fun....

> The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
>trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
>flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
>it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a card
>that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you go
>negitive you cannot go any further negative.)

I've always thought this rule was kinda silly.

One of my long-standing tournament rules, though, has been that if you
get negative Reputation greater than the amount of positive Rep needed
to win the game, you lose. (In other words, if the game's to 80 Rep,
and you get -90, yerrrrout!)

> The second card is
>would be a special that allows you to win the game if you have more
>negative rep than your opponent has positive rep (or something like
>that.)

I'd be a leeetle bit cautious with that one, since it could lead to an
early (first or second-round) win. You could whip out, say, a 3 or 4Y
Runner (...Stiletto, any mage), toss out a Bar Fight (free), and hit
yourself with a Bad Reputation. First round, your down to -10 Rep;
your opponent's at zero; if the cost of the Neg-Rep special is less
than 8Y, you win this turn or next. Admittedly, it's a four-card
combo, but with SRTCG's ability to shuffle through a lot of cards
quickly, it's not impossible.

(To make matters worse, in one of my net.expansions, I have a Runner
you can start the game with; one of the Safehouses I had planned for
SR2060 would allow you to start a fight as well. That reduces it to
two cards. No fun.)

So possible limits might be that you can't play it at greater than -30
Rep, or your opponent has to have +30 Rep -- an interesting variant
might adjust the cost depending on how much negrep you do have. (I
mean, -10 is still _really_ small fry.) But I think neg-rep adds a
lot of interesting potential to the game. Just don't make it too
easy.


- Matt




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Message no. 25
From: Donald Arganbright jayden63@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 10:01:59 MDT
>>Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all
>>the vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic /
>>insect / critter / evil things based cards.
>
>Actually, I've been poking away at Evil Evil Things, too. I'll see
>if I can bump what I've got to the list soon.
>
>One of the things I'd been revising were the negative-Reputation
>Objectives. Though those were an awful lot of fun....

There still there... and yes they are LOTS of fun.


>> The goal is negitive reputation. You have the shadowrunners
>>trying to make a name for themselves, thus gaining rep. And on the
>>flip side you have the evil of the awakened world trying to destroy
>>it. To win the game you would need need two cards. First is a
>>card that allows you to accumulate negitive rep (right now once you
>>go negitive you cannot go any further negative.)

>I've always thought this rule was kinda silly.

Me too

>> The second card would be a special that allows you to win the game
>>if you have more negative rep than your opponent has positive rep
>>(or something like that.)

>I'd be a leeetle bit cautious with that one, since it could lead to
>an early (first or second-round) win. You could whip out, say, a 3
>or 4Y Runner (...Stiletto, any mage), toss out a Bar Fight (free),
>and hit yourself with a Bad Reputation. First round, your down to -
>10 Rep; your opponent's at zero; if the cost of the Neg-Rep special
>is less than 8Y, you win this turn or next. Admittedly, it's a four-
>card combo, but with SRTCG's ability to shuffle through a lot of
>cards quickly, it's not impossible.

Well I haven't made it that easy... But with some of the other cards
I have made the accumulation of negitive rep real easy and it can add
up at a pretty good rate.

>(To make matters worse, in one of my net.expansions, I have a Runner
>you can start the game with; one of the Safehouses I had planned for
>SR2060 would allow you to start a fight as well. That reduces it to
>two cards. No fun.)
>
>So possible limits might be that you can't play it at greater than -
>30 Rep, or your opponent has to have +30 Rep -- an interesting
>variant might adjust the cost depending on how much negrep you do
>have. (I mean, -10 is still _really_ small fry.) But I think neg-
>rep adds a lot of interesting potential to the game. Just don't
>make it too easy.

Here are the two cards in question:

AGENT OF DARKNESS / Contact / 4¥
Agent of Darkness can only be played if the owner currently has
negitive reputation. Agent of Darkness cannot be removed from play
by any means as long as any player has negitive reputation. Any
player may accumulate negitive reputation. Media Chick cannot be
used or deployed by any player controlling Agent of Darkness.

DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH / Special / 0¥
Play only when you have 50 points of negitive reputation or twice as
much negitive reputation as the highest positive reputation of your
opponents, which ever is greater. You instantly win the game.
Darkness Covers the Earth cannot be canceled or redirected.

I figure things need to be really really evil for the evil guy to
win, so that is why the double negitive rep is required. I made
agent of darkness nessicary to avoid first or second round kills. It
also fixes well I pump 10 nuyen into media chick then just pull out.
That would be wwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy to easy to win. There
are lots of cards in the expansion that give you negitive rep for
using, and they add up quickly but for every 20 points of rep you
opponent gets you need to come up with 40. So I think it will work
out.

I'll post the whole set a little later if anyone wants.

*** Knife Sharpens on Stone... Man Sharpens on Man ***
*** - Tao ***

Jayden Stormwalker
Donald Arganbright


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Message no. 26
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: Net-expansions
Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 12:48:24 PDT
>>>Actually I currently working on two versions of my expansion. The
>>>first version hasn't changed. The second has cut out 80% of all
>>>the vampire related cards. I'm replacing them with more toxic /
>>>insect / critter / evil things based cards.

This sounds .. interesting. Drat, and those Vampires were a lot of
fun, too! I'd love to see the insect/toxic shaman stuff you've some
up with.

>Here are the two cards in question:

>AGENT OF DARKNESS / Contact / 4¥
>Agent of Darkness can only be played if the owner currently has
>negitive reputation. Agent of Darkness cannot be removed from play
>by any means as long as any player has negitive reputation. Any
>player may accumulate negitive reputation. Media Chick cannot be
>used or deployed by any player controlling Agent of Darkness.

Assuming the people agree to the rule change (re accumulating negative
rep), I don't see much use for him. (Come to think of it, most people
seem to agree that Media Chick should be limited in the number of used
per turn.)

I guess my feeling toward the card is -- what else does he do?
Admittedly, he makes it more likely to win via negative rep in
SRTCG-straight (as opposed to SRTCG-2060; I'm rapidly accunmulating
rules for the set), but a little more punch to the guy would be
helpful.

>DARKNESS COVERS THE EARTH / Special / 0¥
>Play only when you have 50 points of negitive reputation or twice as
>much negitive reputation as the highest positive reputation of your
>opponents, which ever is greater. You instantly win the game.
>Darkness Covers the Earth cannot be canceled or redirected.

Hmm. It strikes me as potentially unfair that in a long game
(positive rep to win of a hundred or higher) someone could relatively
quickly pull off a negative rep win. With some decks (Gabe's May I
deck, for instance), it's not that hard to limit how fast other
players can earn Rep. I'd rather see this linked to the Rep needed to
win the game, rather than other player's totals or some arbitrary
nunmber -- it makes the card more flexible to different playing
styles.

Keeping in mind that it's possible to sabotage yourself with Bad
Reputations and Cowards -- after a fashion, a card like this promotes
Bully Decks, since (at the moment). Crunch an opponent, and earn Rep
toward winning.

I'd be interested in seeing other cards that use negative Reputation
in interesting ways. How about a Runner like:

MANDRAKE / Toxic Shaman / 3¥
3/3. Human. Mandrake gains Conjure+1 for every fifteen points of
negative Reputation owner has.

Or a Location?:

DEN OF EVIL / Location (Underworld) / 3¥
Trash Den of Evil if you have positive Reputation.
At the beginning of your turn, gain 1¥ for every Den of Evil you
control. At the end of your turn, lose all ¥ on your Credstick.
Safehouse: Runners at Den of Evil may not be Arrested.

Or a Special?

GRAFT AND BRIBERY / Special / 3¥
Trash Graft and Bribery if you have positive Reputation.
Treat all Lone Star Runners you control as Corrupt Lone Star Runners.
You may turn a Corrupt Lone Star Runner to (... Matt's brain suddenly
begins leaking fluid ...)



- Matt

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Message no. 27
From: Fokker9202@***.com Fokker9202@***.com
Subject: Net Expansions
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:07:51 EDT
Hello all. I am looking for web sites that contain the full net expansions
for the Shadowrun CCG. Can anyone help me out? Now, I know that the
Amerindian is one of the expansions, and that I believe that there was
another one that recently came out, but are there more? And if so, where
would these be located?

I appreciate your help,

--Rich
Message no. 28
From: Fokker9202@***.com Fokker9202@***.com
Subject: Net Expansions
Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 21:07:51 EDT
Hello all. I am looking for web sites that contain the full net expansions
for the Shadowrun CCG. Can anyone help me out? Now, I know that the
Amerindian is one of the expansions, and that I believe that there was
another one that recently came out, but are there more? And if so, where
would these be located?

I appreciate your help,

--Rich
Message no. 29
From: Zarcon zarcon@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:56:11 -0500
just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
are out there?

ive just suck to using card sleves with the discritions writen on the back

Levi
Zarcon the 6th
Message no. 30
From: David Reis david.reis@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:59:47 -0700
At 01:56 AM 09/19/1999 -0500, "Zarcon" <zarcon@*****.com> wrote:
>just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
>are out there?
>
>ive just suck to using card sleves with the discritions writen on the back
>
We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the card
protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
entire thing the right stiffness.

David
Message no. 31
From: Zarcon zarcon@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:16:35 -0500
ahhh ok, thanks never realy thought about that hehe :)

Levi
Zarcon the 6th
Message no. 32
From: mbreton@**.netcom.com mbreton@**.netcom.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:29:51 -0500 (CDT)
>>just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
>>are out there?

>We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the card
>protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
>entire thing the right stiffness.

Skillsofts make for great dummy cards :)

David mentioned before about his method of distributing cards, which I whole-heartedly
endorse: make up "boosters" of fifteen cards each, randomly selected. I don't
enforce (or even suggest) a rarity scheme for the net.cards; the more powerful cards come
with heavier drawbacks.

That being said, I'm working on a few "practice decks" for the Metal Shop
expansion -- one reason it hasn't popped out on the list yet -- and so it may be more
practical to give each player a random deck, try it out, and then let them mutate it to
their heart's content. This allows for some of the themes to be better explored.

I should have things up by this evening. Let me know what you think, and remember that
contributions are gladly accepted!


- Matt
Message no. 33
From: Eugene Axe eugeneaxe@******.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:48:07 PDT
> >We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the
card
> >protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
> >entire thing the right stiffness.


At one point my cohorts and I were considering printing them with our own
graphics. Unfortunately ink is expensive. I might try out a few with small
bits of graphics. ex: a gun for weapon cards, an exploding fireball for
magic, etc. It might be fun.

Eugene Axe

-The "Axeman" Cometh




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Message no. 34
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:31:48 PDT
>At one point my cohorts and I were considering printing them with our >own
>graphics. Unfortunately ink is expensive. I might try out a few with small
>bits of graphics. ex: a gun for weapon cards, an exploding >fireball for
>magic, etc. It might be fun.

That's a really cool idea! I've always found that cards without the SRTCG
"frame" it can be difficult keeping track of which net.cards are which.

Teos Abadia had created a .PDF file for the Amerindian expansion ready to be
printed out and cut up into card-size sections, each with their own card
text. I'll see if I can do the same for the Metal Shop expansion.


- Matt

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Message no. 35
From: Zarcon zarcon@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 01:56:11 -0500
just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
are out there?

ive just suck to using card sleves with the discritions writen on the back

Levi
Zarcon the 6th
Message no. 36
From: David Reis david.reis@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 1999 23:59:47 -0700
At 01:56 AM 09/19/1999 -0500, "Zarcon" <zarcon@*****.com> wrote:
>just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
>are out there?
>
>ive just suck to using card sleves with the discritions writen on the back
>
We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the card
protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
entire thing the right stiffness.

David
Message no. 37
From: Zarcon zarcon@*****.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 02:16:35 -0500
ahhh ok, thanks never realy thought about that hehe :)

Levi
Zarcon the 6th
Message no. 38
From: mbreton@**.netcom.com mbreton@**.netcom.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 1999 13:29:51 -0500 (CDT)
>>just wonderin but how do some of you go about using the net expansions that
>>are out there?

>We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the card
>protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
>entire thing the right stiffness.

Skillsofts make for great dummy cards :)

David mentioned before about his method of distributing cards, which I whole-heartedly
endorse: make up "boosters" of fifteen cards each, randomly selected. I don't
enforce (or even suggest) a rarity scheme for the net.cards; the more powerful cards come
with heavier drawbacks.

That being said, I'm working on a few "practice decks" for the Metal Shop
expansion -- one reason it hasn't popped out on the list yet -- and so it may be more
practical to give each player a random deck, try it out, and then let them mutate it to
their heart's content. This allows for some of the themes to be better explored.

I should have things up by this evening. Let me know what you think, and remember that
contributions are gladly accepted!


- Matt
Message no. 39
From: Eugene Axe eugeneaxe@******.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:48:07 PDT
> >We print the text on card-size pieces of paper and slip them into the
card
> >protectors. We put a real card behind the expansion card to give the
> >entire thing the right stiffness.


At one point my cohorts and I were considering printing them with our own
graphics. Unfortunately ink is expensive. I might try out a few with small
bits of graphics. ex: a gun for weapon cards, an exploding fireball for
magic, etc. It might be fun.

Eugene Axe

-The "Axeman" Cometh




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Message no. 40
From: Matt Breton mrbreton@*******.com
Subject: net expansions
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:31:48 PDT
>At one point my cohorts and I were considering printing them with our >own
>graphics. Unfortunately ink is expensive. I might try out a few with small
>bits of graphics. ex: a gun for weapon cards, an exploding >fireball for
>magic, etc. It might be fun.

That's a really cool idea! I've always found that cards without the SRTCG
"frame" it can be difficult keeping track of which net.cards are which.

Teos Abadia had created a .PDF file for the Amerindian expansion ready to be
printed out and cut up into card-size sections, each with their own card
text. I'll see if I can do the same for the Metal Shop expansion.


- Matt

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