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Message no. 1
From: Jeroen de Wijn <J.Wijn@*********.NL>
Subject: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 21:14:00 +0100
A question about No Way Out.

No Way Out
Type: Special (Stinger)
Rarity: Uncommon
Description: 1Y-. Target shadowrunning team MUST encounter the
next Challenge. This Challenge may be sleazed as normal.

The following situation cropped up in a multiplayer game yesterday:
Someone runs on an objective and hits a minefield.
He takes the damage, and would end the run.
I played a No Way Out, forcing him to continue.
The poor bloke then hit another minefield and lost his team.

Q: Was this legal?
I suppose so, but just to make sure.

Q: We were wondering about the following situation: He didn't sleaze or
defeat the first minefield. If he had gone on and defeated all other
challenges, would he have had to face the first minefield again?
Problem is namely that if he had cleared all other challenges away there
would still have been a face-down challenge left...

me.
"Becoming aware of my character defects leads me to the next step --
blaming my parents."
Message no. 2
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 05:11:34 -0700
---Jeroen de Wijn <J.Wijn@*********.NL> wrote:
>
> A question about No Way Out.
>
> No Way Out
> Type: Special (Stinger)
> Rarity: Uncommon
> Description: 1Y-. Target shadowrunning team MUST encounter the
> next Challenge. This Challenge may be sleazed as normal.
>
> The following situation cropped up in a multiplayer game yesterday:
> Someone runs on an objective and hits a minefield.
> He takes the damage, and would end the run.
> I played a No Way Out, forcing him to continue.
> The poor bloke then hit another minefield and lost his team.
>
> Q: Was this legal?
> I suppose so, but just to make sure.
>

Works for me. However, this bring up the question of can you use No
Way Out on yourself after a Hellish Traffic, or Gut Check? I see a
lot of potential for misuse of this card if the official ruling works
like this though.



> Q: We were wondering about the following situation: He didn't sleaze
> or defeat the first minefield. If he had gone on and defeated all
> other challenges, would he have had to face the first minefield
again?
> Problem is namely that if he had cleared all other challenges away
> there would still have been a face-down challenge left...
>

I would vote for no on this one. Since that challenge has already
been faced this run. While he didn't really successfully sleaze or
defeat it, he's already past that point in the game.

This does bring up and interesting situation though. Say you have a
challenge stack of minefield (top card), electric fence, and gut
check. The situation as outlined above happens; the player misses the
roll, the team takes damage and would return to the safehouse, but
someone plays No Way Out. The team goes on an defeats the electric
fence so the player decides to continue on. The roll for Gut Check is
missed though so the team returns to the safe house and the run is
over. There is now a "hole" inbetween the challenges though. Does
this mean whoever owns that challenge stack can now insert a card in
the middle, or does minefield become the 2nd card and a new challenge
can only be played on top?

I would imagine the official ruling would be the minefield becomes the
second card and the new challenge can only be played on top of the
stack. It would be slightly more interesting though if you could
insert a challenge into the middle of the stack. This is of course
assuming that No Way Out can be used as a "free sleaze" card.

My post, my opinions - get one of your own :-)
Forrest
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Message no. 3
From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 11:32:19 -0400
At 05:11 AM 9/18/97 -0700, Forrest wrote these timeless words:
>---Jeroen de Wijn <J.Wijn@*********.NL> wrote:
>>
>> A question about No Way Out.
>>
>> No Way Out
>> Type: Special (Stinger)
>> Rarity: Uncommon
>> Description: 1Y-. Target shadowrunning team MUST encounter the
>> next Challenge. This Challenge may be sleazed as normal.
>>
>> The following situation cropped up in a multiplayer game yesterday:
>> Someone runs on an objective and hits a minefield.
>> He takes the damage, and would end the run.
>> I played a No Way Out, forcing him to continue.
>> The poor bloke then hit another minefield and lost his team.
>>
>> Q: Was this legal?
>> I suppose so, but just to make sure.
>>
>
>Works for me. However, this bring up the question of can you use No
>Way Out on yourself after a Hellish Traffic, or Gut Check? I see a
>lot of potential for misuse of this card if the official ruling works
>like this though.
>
Minefield doesn;t end the run, it just does damage to your runners. You
can only continue on if you can legally do so. Playing it after a hellish
traffic, etc is just a waste.

>> Q: We were wondering about the following situation: He didn't sleaze
>> or defeat the first minefield. If he had gone on and defeated all
>> other challenges, would he have had to face the first minefield
>again?
>> Problem is namely that if he had cleared all other challenges away
>> there would still have been a face-down challenge left...
>>
>
>I would vote for no on this one. Since that challenge has already
>been faced this run. While he didn't really successfully sleaze or
>defeat it, he's already past that point in the game.
>
>This does bring up and interesting situation though. Say you have a
>challenge stack of minefield (top card), electric fence, and gut
>check. The situation as outlined above happens; the player misses the
>roll, the team takes damage and would return to the safehouse, but
>someone plays No Way Out.
>
Once again, you don;t return... Just take the damage... YOu can continue
if you want.

>The team goes on an defeats the electric
>fence so the player decides to continue on. The roll for Gut Check is
>missed though so the team returns to the safe house and the run is
>over. There is now a "hole" inbetween the challenges though. Does
>this mean whoever owns that challenge stack can now insert a card in
>the middle, or does minefield become the 2nd card and a new challenge
>can only be played on top?
>
It becomes the second card.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

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Message no. 4
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:31:56 -0700
---Jeroen de Wijn wrote:
>

<snip>

> The following situation cropped up in a multiplayer game yesterday:
> Someone runs on an objective and hits a minefield.
> He takes the damage, and would end the run.
> I played a No Way Out, forcing him to continue.
> The poor bloke then hit another minefield and lost his team.
>
> Q: Was this legal?
> I suppose so, but just to make sure.

Sure, why not?

> Q: We were wondering about the following situation: He didn't sleaze
or
> defeat the first minefield. If he had gone on and defeated all other
> challenges, would he have had to face the first minefield again?
> Problem is namely that if he had cleared all other challenges away
there
> would still have been a face-down challenge left...

Yup. You forced him past the first minefield. The challenge is now
behind the team. If he gets the objective now, it'd just be to your
chagrin.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament


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Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:53:18 -0700
---Forrest wrote:
>
> ---Jeroen de Wijn <J.Wijn@*********.NL> wrote:
> >
> > A question about No Way Out.
> >
> > No Way Out
> > Type: Special (Stinger)
> > Rarity: Uncommon
> > Description: 1Y-. Target shadowrunning team MUST encounter the
> > next Challenge. This Challenge may be sleazed as normal.
> >
> > The following situation cropped up in a multiplayer game yesterday:
> > Someone runs on an objective and hits a minefield.
> > He takes the damage, and would end the run.
> > I played a No Way Out, forcing him to continue.
> > The poor bloke then hit another minefield and lost his team.
> >
> > Q: Was this legal?
> > I suppose so, but just to make sure.
> >
>
> Works for me. However, this bring up the question of can you use No
> Way Out on yourself after a Hellish Traffic, or Gut Check? I see a
> lot of potential for misuse of this card if the official ruling works
> like this though.

Mine Field
Type: Challenge
Description: (Miscellaneous)
Notes: Roll D6 (+1 for each Runner present who possesses Demolition).
If result is higher than the number of Runners present, trash Mine
Field. If result is equal to or lower than the number of Runners
present, each Runner takes X armor-piercing damage. X = number of
Runners present.

As Bull has already pointed out, unless it kills everyone it doesn't
end your run. Cards like Minefield just rough you up, you can
continue on if you wish. Of course if the mines went off the alarm is
now triggered.

You could use No Way Out for other challenges on your team if you
wanted to. It's happened in our games before. I don't see a whole lot
of room for misuse though. First it's only a max of four of the cards
in one deck. LotI and Wabbits Foot can possibly cancel them out. Plus,
unless you did a real good job of Recon, you just better hope you can
survive what's coming up next.

<snip>

> This does bring up and interesting situation though. Say you have a
> challenge stack of minefield (top card), electric fence, and gut
> check. The situation as outlined above happens; the player misses
the
> roll, the team takes damage and would return to the safehouse, but
> someone plays No Way Out. The team goes on an defeats the electric
> fence so the player decides to continue on. The roll for Gut Check
is
> missed though so the team returns to the safe house and the run is
> over. There is now a "hole" inbetween the challenges though. Does
> this mean whoever owns that challenge stack can now insert a card in
> the middle, or does minefield become the 2nd card and a new challenge
> can only be played on top?

It becomes the second card. You can only place new challenges on top
of an existing stack.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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Message no. 6
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 09:50:49 -0700
---Loki wrote:
>
> > Q: We were wondering about the following situation: He didn't
sleaze
> or
> > defeat the first minefield. If he had gone on and defeated all
other
> > challenges, would he have had to face the first minefield again?
> > Problem is namely that if he had cleared all other challenges away
> there
> > would still have been a face-down challenge left...
>
> Yup. You forced him past the first minefield. The challenge is now
> behind the team. If he gets the objective now, it'd just be to your
> chagrin.

Actually, after re-reading the wording of your question I think my
answer should have been:

Nope. You forced him past the first minefield. The challenge is now
behind the team. If he gets the objective now, it'd just be to your
chagrin.


===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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Message no. 7
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: No Way Out question.
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 1997 10:05:52 -0700
---Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM> wrote:
>
> ---Forrest wrote:
> >
[snip]
> As Bull has already pointed out, unless it kills everyone it doesn't
> end your run. Cards like Minefield just rough you up, you can
> continue on if you wish. Of course if the mines went off the alarm is
> now triggered.
>
Didn't have the card/list in front of me so I was trying to go by
memory (which I should know better by now ;-) )

> You could use No Way Out for other challenges on your team if you
> wanted to. It's happened in our games before. I don't see a whole lot
> of room for misuse though. First it's only a max of four of the cards
> in one deck. LotI and Wabbits Foot can possibly cancel them out.
Plus,
> unless you did a real good job of Recon, you just better hope you can
> survive what's coming up next.
>
Actually I was thinking (or mistaken is probably better) that the No
Way Out could be used as an automatic sleaze type thing. However, I
see now where it is only usable when there is a choice to continue in
the run. Shows you what happens when trying to respond to messages
while thinking about 1/2 dozen other things at work :-)

I'll try to be more thoughtful in the future
Later!
Forrest


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