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Message no. 1
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 18:26:51 -0600
At 03:34 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>I don't like the "cumulative rep" points. It basically forces people to
>play with cards like Wild Goose Chase and GAQ to keep their opponents from
>building up rep, in case they might end in a tie with the opponent in the
>overall standings.

IMO, cumulative rep is the only way to go in the SRTCG. It is in keeping
with the flavor and design of the game. The first sentence under 'OBJECT OF
THE GAME' on page 9 of the rulebook states "The object of the SRTCG is to
earn enough Reputation points to become King of the Sprawl. I'm all in
favor of alternate tourney formats, but I think most formats for 'this'
game should keep the Rep total in mind.

Hg

Warning: This message contains my opinions.
I've been wrong before....
....I'll be wrong again.
Message no. 2
From: Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM>
Subject: Re: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 19:48:26 -0600
>At 03:34 PM 3/4/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>I don't like the "cumulative rep" points. It basically forces people to
>>play with cards like Wild Goose Chase and GAQ to keep their opponents from
>>building up rep, in case they might end in a tie with the opponent in the
>>overall standings.
>
> IMO, cumulative rep is the only way to go in the SRTCG. It is in keeping
>with the flavor and design of the game. The first sentence under 'OBJECT OF
>THE GAME' on page 9 of the rulebook states "The object of the SRTCG is to
>earn enough Reputation points to become King of the Sprawl. I'm all in
>favor of alternate tourney formats, but I think most formats for 'this'
>game should keep the Rep total in mind.

Unfortunately, if you go only use total rep to determine the winner, you
open the door for degenerate decks. As I have said before, it is alot
easier to gain reputation, then to stop an opponent from gaining
reputation. I think the idea of looking at a players win total and
rep differential is the best way to determine the best overall player.



--
Phil Jaros 888888888
chakan@************.com O=O=O=O=O
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 3
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 20:54:41 -0800
Phil Jaros wrote:

> Unfortunately, if you go only use total rep to determine the winner, you
> open the door for degenerate decks. As I have said before, it is alot
> easier to gain reputation, then to stop an opponent from gaining
> reputation. I think the idea of looking at a players win total and
> rep differential is the best way to determine the best overall player.

What kind of degeneracy are you expecting-? No matter what the case,
every game boils down to whoever has the most Reputation, wins; so
Media Chick, et al, are going to be in there; since winning means the
difference of an extra tournament point, you can bet there'll be
Cowards and Bad Reputations as well -- the difference between 10
Reputation is suddenlt that much greater.

At least, those are the two Reputation-oriented degeneracies I see; if
you had something else in mind, I'd like to know.

Kind of funny that people are talking about the possibility of using
X horde of cards to pop up from 70 Rep to 200+, when, rather obviously,
those cards are more likely to be used earlier in the game to get you to
cross the 75 mark.


-Matt

------------------------------------
I will work harder. -- Boxer: Animal Hero, First-Class

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 4
From: Phil Jaros <chakan@****.PYROTECHNICS.COM>
Subject: Re: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:07:13 -0600
Matt wrote:
>>Unfortunately, if you go only use total rep to determine the winner, you
>>open the door for degenerate decks.
>
>What kind of degeneracy are you expecting-? No matter what the case,
>every game boils down to whoever has the most Reputation, wins; so
>Media Chick, et al, are going to be in there; since winning means the
>difference of an extra tournament point, you can bet there'll be
>Cowards and Bad Reputations as well -- the difference between 10
>Reputation is suddenlt that much greater.
>
>At least, those are the two Reputation-oriented degeneracies I see; if
>you had something else in mind, I'd like to know.

The thing I'm most concerned about are decks full of nothing but runners
and a few of the above mentioned cards. It won't stop many opposing
decks, but it will gain a bunch of Reputation before it goes down.

It is possible for this kind of deck to come in on the losing side in
each game yet still come out ahead in Total Rep. I've seen it happen
when my friends played a mini tourny with a few of my favorite decks
and a couple of the cheesy types of decks.

Having a low goal of 75 Rep would keep it somewhat in check, but it
could still be a problem.


--
Phil Jaros 888888888
chakan@************.com O=O=O=O=O
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________
___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
Message no. 5
From: LordBurger <LordBurger@***.COM>
Subject: Re: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:16:55 EST
In a message dated 98-03-04 19:50:06 EST, you write:

<< Unfortunately, if you go only use total rep to determine the winner, you
open the door for degenerate decks. As I have said before, it is alot
easier to gain reputation, then to stop an opponent from gaining
reputation. I think the idea of looking at a players win total and
rep differential is the best way to determine the best overall player. >>

Now lets take a look at what people consider "DEGENERATE".

Media chick/Invisibility decks are fast, but then Hey, a MR. Johnson/Shwaark
Armor beatdown deck can be just as fast. (lucky rolls on the mR.J ofcourse)

Now degenerate means exactly what??? A fast deck that wins quickly? A deck
that shuts down ¥ growth for your opponent?? Me playing a lord torgo when you
are playing a solid Elf runner deck?? Every card, every theme can be
cosidered DEgenerate in some senses, thats the point of the game. To play a
deck to win. Yes playing the against the same deck all the time gets boring,
but realize this fact... This game is yet to have an expansion, it is young,
and not many cards are in it. Untill a new set comes out, there will be a lot
of the same cards in decks, and a whole lot of the same theme orientated
decks. Right now, the POPULAR theme's that my fellow runners have seen are...

1. Decking/Fuci ¥ Denial
2. Phat armor Cleanse the hive/Urban Brawl decks
3. Media chick/Invisibility Speed decks (fast, not always cheesey, remember
WANTED!)
4. Slease decks (lots of cheap runners with spells and skills to beat
challenges)
5. Race orientated decks (elves {LOki's}, Orks and Humans)
6. Mage/Shaman Decks
7. Wheeler Based Rigger decks (drive by the ass out of mages)

All these decks have there Cheesey aspects, but then hey, thats why they call
em' CUSTOMIZEABLE CARD GAMES. If you have a local player in your area who
wins all the time with a Certian deck, tell him to play that in tourneys, not
in fun games, or jsut dont play him till he builds a new one.

Just my thoughts

DENNIS SHEA
TORGO PHATTY BEATDOWNZ
Message no. 6
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: On the other hand (was Re: Tourney Format Possibility???)
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 21:35:22 -0800
Phil Jaros wrote:

> It is possible for this kind of deck to come in on the losing side in
> each game yet still come out ahead in Total Rep. I've seen it happen
> when my friends played a mini tourny with a few of my favorite decks
> and a couple of the cheesy types of decks.

H'm. I'm afraid I don't share the opinion. To me, a player who can
always get, say, 60 Rep in a 75 Rep league is a better player than one
who sometimes wins and sometimes loses, especially when playing
against many different players. This could be done with any deck,
too; I'm not sure it's peculiar to 'cheesy' decks.

Due to the way Swiss is set up, that type of player will probably
never win a tournament (and probably won't place or show either.)


-Matt

------------------------------------
I will work harder. -- Boxer: Animal Hero, First-Class

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

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