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Message no. 1
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:31:16 -0800
Ok, after sorting and resorting I think i've come up with an agreeable
first draft of my Poisoned Elves deck (at least what I could do with
the cards available).

As it's name denotes. It's an elven themed deck. Currently four of the
runners are non-faye but they're at least meta-human. The deck will go
through some future changes, as sometime next week one of the Glitz's
will be swapped out for a Foxy Roxy. Not to mention a Loki or two will
be worked into the ranks (Underworld is bound to make a few more
changes with things like Ancient's HQ etc).

Give it a look over and see if you can help point out anything I may
be missing.

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

Poisoned Elves: a 70+8 deck

OBJECTIVES (8)
Sucker Run x2
Fugitive Run
Eco-War
Fort Knocks
Operation Cottonmouth
ShadowPlay
Desert Hit

RUNNERS (20)
Red Widow x4
Drake
Viper
Glitz x3
Tinkerbell x3
Orion x2
Ice Queen
Hollywood
Kromagnus x2
Sam the Slueth
Cherry Bomb

GEAR (19)
Dermal Plating x4
Muscle Replacement
Berreta x2
HK 227
Bulldog Van
Crawler Patrol Drone
Hunter Drone x2
Automated Patrol Vehicle
Fireball
Sleep x2
Browse
Sleaze
Steamroller

LOCATIONS (2)
Club Vortex
Tir Tairngire

CONTACTS (2)
Elven Hitman
Bounty Hunter

SPECIALS (1)
Drive-By

CHALLENGES (26)
Ancients' Turf x4
Lone Star Patrol x4
Mage Strike Force x4
Maglocks x4
Mine Field x2
Booby Trap x2
Hunting Gargoyle
Chomps-2000 x2
Manticore
Toxic Spirit
Guardian Dracoform

~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

It's designed to be more of a sleaze than combat deck. However, it can
deal the damage when I have to.

The pumpable Challenges are there to feed off my cash cows, and I
included Objectives that can add to the body of Personnel Challenges
so I can squeeze another pump or two from the Ancients' before they
hit zero.

Bounty Hunter is there for obvious reasons, but I especially love
tucking him in a deck when Maglocks will be in place. :o)

Neither Desert Hit and Eco-War allow Indoor Challenges, since that
only includes four of mine (Maglocks) that may give me a possible
edge. Plus I threw in a couple of Sucker Runs as I never place
Challenges on my own Objectives until after it's revealed (I love to
bleed a Challenge or two from opponents in this way).

Well, there you have it. Consider this the decks Beta stage. I'll give
it a run or two this weekend and see how it goes.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
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Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98




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Message no. 2
From: Dennis Shea <LordBurger@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 02:52:01 EST
and they play Lord TORGO, and you do what?????

CONCEDE?

Let me know what the big guy does to the deck


PEACE

BIG D.S.
Message no. 3
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 06:54:59 -0800
---Dennis Shea <LordBurger@***.COM> wrote:
>
> and they play Lord TORGO, and you do what?????
>
> CONCEDE?
>
> Let me know what the big guy does to the deck

1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if they
do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
Torgo hit the table.

2. If he comes out the current Torgo can only hit one elf a turn.
He'll be doing nothing else that turn and my opponent has to have the
cash to do it. The new Torgo will be doing three points of damage to
elves, I have Dermal Plating, Muscle Replacement and Berreta's that'll
raise the body of the elves above 3. Plus I'll have Loki's and other
counters to hit him when Torgo II comes out.

I also have Ice Queen and Hollywood to help keep an opponent's money
down and make the upkeep on Torgo tougher, providing they can pull the
9 to get him out in the first place.

I guess I've just never had Torgo get me shaking in my boots as much
as some people on the list. I don't see the reasoning behind - "eek,
there's a single Ttoll card out there called Torgo guess I better not
have alot of elves in my deck."

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98
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Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:07:08 -0800
Loki wrote:

> Ok, after sorting and resorting I think i've come up with an agreeable
> first draft of my Poisoned Elves deck (at least what I could do with
> the cards available).

<ein Bischen snippage>

> ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!

> Poisoned Elves: a 70+8 deck

> OBJECTIVES (8)
> Sucker Run x2
> Fugitive Run
> Eco-War
> Fort Knocks
> Operation Cottonmouth
> ShadowPlay
> Desert Hit

Very nice. H'm - Drake's the only member of your team with Stamina.
Possibly very bad. :)

> RUNNERS (20)
> Red Widow x4
> Drake
> Viper
> Glitz x3
> Tinkerbell x3
> Orion x2
> Ice Queen
> Hollywood
> Kromagnus x2
> Sam the Slueth
> Cherry Bomb

Given Torgo's new ability, I'd suggest a Knuckles or Scorpio, just to
keep some of the kids at home safe. I might even suggest adding in
Shade, to complete the elves -- you won't be making use of her (his?)
Conjure skill, as Spirits would just clump up your deck, but it may come
in handy with the sleazing.

Skuzzy's already mentioned the Ancients Headquarters in the Underworld
expansion, so you may want to think about switching out the mages for
gangers; Redline makes a *lot* of sense under those circumstances.
(That'd mean swapping the spells for bikes, which is o.k. Redline on a
Harley Scorpion kicks serious butt.)

Is Cherry Bomb all that useful -? I can understand wanting to avoid
some Locations -- well, pretty much blowing up any Location an oponent
has is a good choice, it's a matter of nueyn -- but with only one she
doesn't seem like a huge defensive asset. Well, she's got good skills,
too. And I like the art.

> GEAR (19)
> Dermal Plating x4
> Muscle Replacement
> Berreta x2
> HK 227
> Bulldog Van
> Crawler Patrol Drone
> Hunter Drone x2
> Automated Patrol Vehicle
> Fireball
> Sleep x2
> Browse
> Sleaze
> Steamroller

H'm. I've always been wary of trying to 'allow' more than two types of
Runners in any deck -- I can see the cyber, weapons, and drones in, but
the spells and proggies seem to just take up deck space -- well, what
works for you works. I'll suggest adding in the talismonger or decker
coffee house, since they're both ways of expediting the proper gear for
the proper runners.

> LOCATIONS (2)
> Club Vortex
> Tir Tairngire

Tir Tairngire!? Why'd you toss that one in? :)

> CONTACTS (2)
> Elven Hitman
> Bounty Hunter

> SPECIALS (1)
> Drive-By

Wow. I'm impressed. No GAQS! *And* you have a Bounty Hunter!

One interesting combo you might want to try out is Foretelling with the
Elite Security Mage -- you'll always know when the card you're gonna
frag is a deader. And that way you can worry less about running out of
specials, or chewing up the wrong card. Also helps you understand
opponent's decks better, as well as tell what's coming up in your own.

> CHALLENGES (26)
> Ancients' Turf x4
> Lone Star Patrol x4
> Mage Strike Force x4
> Maglocks x4
> Mine Field x2
> Booby Trap x2
> Hunting Gargoyle
> Chomps-2000 x2
> Manticore
> Toxic Spirit
> Guardian Dracoform

Toxic Spirit and Free Spirit work well together, since the two will
always (almost) result in the alarm being triggered. Just be cautious
of Blindsideds. (Hey - Foxy can sleaze the Security Consultant! Cool!)


Well, hopefully I've offered some insight...


-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl
Message no. 5
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 10:12:44 -0800
Dennis Shea wrote:

> and they play Lord TORGO, and you do what?????

> CONCEDE?

Though I can't speak for Loki, elf decks typically rely on speed -- the
PE deck should already have an Objective or two to its name before Torgo
hits the table.

And if/when "Mister T" does enter play -- well, you deal with it.
Believe me, it's possible. These are shadowrunners, they're meant to do
the impossible.


-Matt

------------------------------------
With nomads I am numbered. -- E. MacColl
Message no. 6
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:46:02 -0800
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
> Loki wrote:
>
> > Ok, after sorting and resorting I think i've come up with an
agreeable
> > first draft of my Poisoned Elves deck (at least what I could do with
> > the cards available).
>
> <ein Bischen snippage>
>
> > ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!
>
> > Poisoned Elves: a 70+8 deck
>
> > OBJECTIVES (8)
> > Sucker Run x2
> > Fugitive Run
> > Eco-War
> > Fort Knocks
> > Operation Cottonmouth
> > ShadowPlay
> > Desert Hit
>
> Very nice. H'm - Drake's the only member of your team with Stamina.
> Possibly very bad. :)

I know, stamina in elves is just a rare commodity. But then I'm going
more for sleazing than all out combat.

> > RUNNERS (20)
> > Red Widow x4
> > Drake
> > Viper
> > Glitz x3
> > Tinkerbell x3
> > Orion x2
> > Ice Queen
> > Hollywood
> > Kromagnus x2
> > Sam the Slueth
> > Cherry Bomb
>
> Given Torgo's new ability, I'd suggest a Knuckles or Scorpio, just to
> keep some of the kids at home safe.

I thought along the same line, but I don't have either one.

> I might even suggest adding in
> Shade, to complete the elves -- you won't be making use of her (his?)
> Conjure skill, as Spirits would just clump up your deck, but it may
come
> in handy with the sleazing.

I was thinking of a Hawkwind rather than Shade. Since I agree that I
wouldn't have the room to add in Spirits at least the Biotech would
prove usefull. I may still do this.

> Skuzzy's already mentioned the Ancients Headquarters in the Underworld
> expansion, so you may want to think about switching out the mages for
> gangers; Redline makes a *lot* of sense under those circumstances.
> (That'd mean swapping the spells for bikes, which is o.k. Redline
on a
> Harley Scorpion kicks serious butt.)

Agreed. These kind of changes are already planned once Underworld is
released. I looked at a few Redlines as I was building the deck, but
without swapping something for the bikes he/she didn't make alot of
sense. Ancient's HQ adds more reason for the bikes and thus she'll be
rolled in at that point.

> Is Cherry Bomb all that useful -? I can understand wanting to avoid
> some Locations -- well, pretty much blowing up any Location an oponent
> has is a good choice, it's a matter of nueyn -- but with only one she
> doesn't seem like a huge defensive asset. Well, she's got good
skills,
> too. And I like the art.

Cherry is there for a few reasons:

1. Drake's the only elf with Demolitions and I only have one of him. I
wanted at least to counts of the skill for such things as Booby Trap
and Minefield. As I said I'm aiming more for sleaze than combat on runs.

2. If and when she does come up, I do find a use for blowing an
opposing location once in a while. Granted she's only one card and the
deck isn't built around it, but it's anice fringe benefit when it's
there.

3. Since I'm waiting for Underworld to give me some buffer elves,
Cherry with a 5/6 is one of my beefier runners on top of the rest.

> > GEAR (19)
> > Dermal Plating x4
> > Muscle Replacement
> > Berreta x2
> > HK 227
> > Bulldog Van
> > Crawler Patrol Drone
> > Hunter Drone x2
> > Automated Patrol Vehicle
> > Fireball
> > Sleep x2
> > Browse
> > Sleaze
> > Steamroller
>
> H'm. I've always been wary of trying to 'allow' more than two types
of
> Runners in any deck -- I can see the cyber, weapons, and drones in,
but
> the spells and proggies seem to just take up deck space -- well, what
> works for you works. I'll suggest adding in the talismonger or decker
> coffee house, since they're both ways of expediting the proper gear
for
> the proper runners.

Agreed. I usually only play a 3-way deck (i.e. Mages, Riggers and
Fighters). The four way split with the Deckers cam e in after the
presence of Ice Queen and Hollywood. I want to keep them as Ice Queen
is part of my Recon abilities, but also the duo help tap an opponents
Nu Yen is Torgo were to show his face... anti-upkeep tactics. I
figured if the two were there thay may as well be usefull and so I put
the programs in. I may pull them out again after playtesting, but I
need to see how it works.

I'll probably keep the mages/spells as Orion is part of my Streetwise
for sleazing and I have a Tempest on that'll be going in once he gets
here in the mail.

I agree in either case a Talsimonger or Decker Coffeehouse might come
in handy, but I don't like going over 70 cards in a deck and I'm not
sure what I would pull in trade.

It's going to take playtesting to really find a good formula, and by
the time I do Underworld will hit the shelves and start it all over
again. :o)

> > LOCATIONS (2)
> > Club Vortex
> > Tir Tairngire
>
> Tir Tairngire!? Why'd you toss that one in? :)
>
> > CONTACTS (2)
> > Elven Hitman
> > Bounty Hunter
>
> > SPECIALS (1)
> > Drive-By
>
> Wow. I'm impressed. No GAQS! *And* you have a Bounty Hunter!

Maglocks work better for my in combo with the B.H. and they tend to
stick around where a GAQS is just there and gone.

> One interesting combo you might want to try out is Foretelling with
the
> Elite Security Mage -- you'll always know when the card you're gonna
> frag is a deader. And that way you can worry less about running out
of
> specials, or chewing up the wrong card. Also helps you understand
> opponent's decks better, as well as tell what's coming up in your own.

I like the idea but I don't have an Elite Security Mage to toy with.

> > CHALLENGES (26)
> > Ancients' Turf x4
> > Lone Star Patrol x4
> > Mage Strike Force x4
> > Maglocks x4
> > Mine Field x2
> > Booby Trap x2
> > Hunting Gargoyle
> > Chomps-2000 x2
> > Manticore
> > Toxic Spirit
> > Guardian Dracoform
>
> Toxic Spirit and Free Spirit work well together, since the two will
> always (almost) result in the alarm being triggered. Just be cautious
> of Blindsideds.

I might look at that, thanx for the idea.

> (Hey - Foxy can sleaze the Security Consultant! Cool!)

Can't wait to get one in my deck. :o)

> Well, hopefully I've offered some insight...

Yup, thanx again.

One thing to point out is that with Tempest I also have a Torgo coming
in trade. I may put the bad boy in as another tactic. Just on the
off-chance my hits the table first, I can just leave him there and
keep an opponent from putting him out. Hafta see how it works in
practice.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98
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Message no. 7
From: Tony Glinka <porthos@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 00:44:04 -0700
Loki wrote:

> 1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if they
> do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
> Torgo hit the table.

You didn't mention that you utterly destroyed me that game, too. I don't
think I took a single objective. With all the cash cows in play, the
pumpable challenges became a nightmare, even for my Torgo. He was hardly
an effective card.


Tony
--
Porthos@**.netcom.com
Porthos' World of Shadowrun: http://porthos.base.org/sr.html
Tony's SRTCG Page: http://porthos.base.org/srtcg.html
Message no. 8
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 07:26:50 -0800
---Tony Glinka <porthos@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
> Loki wrote:
>
> > 1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if
they
> > do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
> > Torgo hit the table.
>
> You didn't mention that you utterly destroyed me that game, too. I
don't
> think I took a single objective. With all the cash cows in play, the
> pumpable challenges became a nightmare, even for my Torgo. He was
hardly
> an effective card.

Just being myself I had several elves in the deck at that time
to.(Can't help it, I like 'em). Anyways, I guess that kinda helps make
my point.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
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SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98

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Message no. 9
From: "Jens P. DrÀger" <a1616@****.UNI-BAYREUTH.DE>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 13:37:46 +0100
Loki wrote:

> 1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if they
> do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
> Torgo hit the table.

Well, I'm playing with two friends most of the time and they both
allways have Lord Torgo in their decks... Probably due to regional
differences, but it's hard to have an elf deck over here :-)

> 2. If he comes out the current Torgo can only hit one elf a turn.
> He'll be doing nothing else that turn and my opponent has to have the
> cash to do it. The new Torgo will be doing three points of damage to
> elves, I have Dermal Plating, Muscle Replacement and Berreta's that'll
>
> raise the body of the elves above 3. Plus I'll have Loki's and other
> counters to hit him when Torgo II comes out.

That's not true - the (old Torgo) card says something like "Pay X Nuyen
each turn. X is the number of elves to be trashed" You can definitely
trash four elves at once for paying 4 nuyen - and if your opponent has
paid 15 or 20 nuyen to deploy them, he'll think about an elf deck
twice!Ok, he'll be turned all the time, but:
- you don't have any runners out to do anything and
- he has others to do the shadowruns (kromagnus, knuckles, stomper or
whoever)

> I also have Ice Queen and Hollywood to help keep an opponent's money
> down and make the upkeep on Torgo tougher, providing they can pull the
>
> 9 to get him out in the first place.

But that doesn't help if your opponent plays 4 thrash and four glitz in
his deck (or even Kromagnus) - he's got more money left for Lord Torgo
and pumpable challenges than he could wish for!

> I guess I've just never had Torgo get me shaking in my boots as much
> as some people on the list. I don't see the reasoning behind - "eek,
> there's a single Ttoll card out there called Torgo guess I better not
> have alot of elves in my deck."

Hey, come over here with your elf deck and play with my friends :-))
Would definitely get really interesting.

Jens P.
Message no. 10
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:21:09 -0800
---"Jens P. Dräger" <a1616@****.UNI-BAYREUTH.DE> wrote:
>
> Loki wrote:
>
> > 1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if
they
> > do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
> > Torgo hit the table.
>
> Well, I'm playing with two friends most of the time and they both
> allways have Lord Torgo in their decks... Probably due to regional
> differences, but it's hard to have an elf deck over here :-)

Still, between Tony and your two friends that doesn't make Torgo an
extremely common deck commodity. ;o)

> > 2. If he comes out the current Torgo can only hit one elf a turn.
> > He'll be doing nothing else that turn and my opponent has to have
the
> > cash to do it. The new Torgo will be doing three points of damage to
> > elves, I have Dermal Plating, Muscle Replacement and Berreta's
that'll
> >
> > raise the body of the elves above 3. Plus I'll have Loki's and other
> > counters to hit him when Torgo II comes out.
>
> That's not true - the (old Torgo) card says something like "Pay X
Nuyen
> each turn. X is the number of elves to be trashed" You can definitely
> trash four elves at once for paying 4 nuyen - and if your opponent has
> paid 15 or 20 nuyen to deploy them, he'll think about an elf deck
> twice!

My bad. I crosswired with a house rule we'd tried a time or two when
Rookie was playing with Torgo in his deck (X¥: Turn Torgo to trash a
target elf in play. X= Body of target elf.) You're right on the
wording of (old) Torgo's special.

Still, Torgo really doesn't scare me like you think he should. There's
too many things that need to be in place around him. An elf deck being
a speed deck requires Torgo to be either in your starting hand or in
your first few draws to keep me from getting an Objective or two
before you can do your damage. Even when he shows up in your hand, you
need 9¥ available to get him on the table. After that, you'll be
dropping 2¥ a turn on his upkeep, and if you're going to use nu yen to
kill off elves you have to have the nu yen to do it (which means
you're not using the cash to put out anything else).

Any opponent that's going to keep dropping nuyen on Torgo every turn
or so to burn my elves will not have the cash to do anything but. The
cost of most elves is low enough that I can get one or two out every
turn if I keep drawing them.

Torgo II with his revised special scares me even less, as I've
included a few things to raise most elves bodies above 3. Plus when
Torgo II is released, so is Loki. I'll obviously have a few of the
troll slayers going into my deck, coupled with Tempest they may be
able to fell the brute once in a while.

I've also got a playable Torgo of my own coming in trade, so to
further complicate the live of the would-be "Torgists" I'm thinking of
slipping him in my deck. On the off chance I get mine on the table
before my opponent I thought I'd let him sit and simply keep the other
guy from putting out his prime runner. ;o)

You know, one thing I need to ask Skuzzy is if the revamping of
Torgo's special means that Old Torgo will be assumed to function as
Torgo II in regards to the specials or if the two different Torgo's
will function as seperate and independant cards.

> Ok, he'll be turned all the time, but:
> - you don't have any runners out to do anything and
> - he has others to do the shadowruns (kromagnus, knuckles, stomper or
> whoever)

With the above Runners you listed (Big Bullies) that means for a very
slow coming deck. An elf deck is more often than not a speed deck, so
odds are in my favor to have an Objective or two before your lumbering
army is assembled. The Big Boys are also costly, so it's going to take
you a couple of turns each to get the cash to bring them out. Torgo's
upkeep doesn't make it any easier and if your dropping nu yen on him
to burn elves then it's going even slower for you.

> > I also have Ice Queen and Hollywood to help keep an opponent's money
> > down and make the upkeep on Torgo tougher, providing they can pull
the
> >
> > 9 to get him out in the first place.
>
> But that doesn't help if your opponent plays 4 thrash and four glitz
in
> his deck (or even Kromagnus) - he's got more money left for Lord Torgo
> and pumpable challenges than he could wish for!

Again, that's built on alot of "what ifs." You're talking about a very
slow coming deck for you to get Torgo, the Glitz's, the Thrash's, The
Kromagni, and the rest of your Big Bullies (most of which are 7¥ or 8¥
each) into place. And even once you have them all on the table you
need a few turns to generate the stockpile of nu yen you're referring
to.

If the elf deck works as it's supposed to, between low cost to deploy
runners and the high skill/sleaze ratio among them, you may not have
all that time to assemble the scary face of your deck.

> > I guess I've just never had Torgo get me shaking in my boots as much
> > as some people on the list. I don't see the reasoning behind - "eek,
> > there's a single Ttoll card out there called Torgo guess I better
not
> > have alot of elves in my deck."
>
> Hey, come over here with your elf deck and play with my friends :-))
> Would definitely get really interesting.

I'd like to tak e you up on the offer, but airfare would be a little
daunting. :o)

I'm just to scared of Torgo and a Big Bully deck like the ones your
friends play. Sorry.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 1/4/98
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Message no. 11
From: Jon Palmer <jmp225@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:23:58 -0500
>> > 1. Not everyone has a Lord Torgo or plays with them in a deck if
>they
>> > do. I've only played against one person here in Phoenix that had a
>> > Torgo hit the table.
>>
>> Well, I'm playing with two friends most of the time and they both
>> allways have Lord Torgo in their decks... Probably due to regional
>> differences, but it's hard to have an elf deck over here :-)
>
>Still, between Tony and your two friends that doesn't make Torgo an
>extremely common deck commodity. ;o)

Okay, I'll chip in. Our group all used him too, until we laid a ban on him
in all our games. If I entered a tournament, i'd probably use two or three
Torgos, as well as 2 Abducted!s to make sure he comes out. There are too
many good elves to NOT use him, the way he's written. And he can come out
first turn with a simple Static/Moonlighting combo.
>
>Still, Torgo really doesn't scare me like you think he should. There's
>too many things that need to be in place around him. An elf deck being
>a speed deck requires Torgo to be either in your starting hand or in
>your first few draws to keep me from getting an Objective or two
>before you can do your damage. Even when he shows up in your hand, you
>need 9* available to get him on the table. After that, you'll be
>dropping 2* a turn on his upkeep, and if you're going to use nu yen to
>kill off elves you have to have the nu yen to do it (which means
>you're not using the cash to put out anything else).

This is a good point. We run almost solely multiplayer, so the 1-on-1
aspect isn't quite as up there for us.
>
>Any opponent that's going to keep dropping nuyen on Torgo every turn
>or so to burn my elves will not have the cash to do anything but. The
>cost of most elves is low enough that I can get one or two out every
>turn if I keep drawing them.

If you drop 1 or 2 elves a turn, Torgo kills at LEAST 2 a turn (unless your
opponent is an idiot and playing with multiple prime runners). Now, a
SMART player is going to back up Torgo with at least Thrash and Glitz, plus
probably Moonlightings. If he's the devious type and plays Sticky Fingers
himself, he could put you in a world of hurt. I don't have the cardstock
to try it yet, but I'd think a Torgo/other big dudes/lots of ¥/Sticky
Fingers deck would be pretty powerful. At least with the original Torgo
wording. As of now, the new one is going to turn to do 3AP to all elves,
right? Guess I'd have to replace those Glitzes with Kromagni (is that the
correct plural?)

Jon Palmer
Message no. 12
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves deck
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 01:23:30 +0100
Hi Everbud!

I´ve seen Bully Decks with up to 9 Rockers in play at once, and trust
me, the Big Guys jump on you very quickly, even before you could get
more than four Runners out yourself. I don´t know how it happens, but
the player I´m talking about wins just about every single tourney. Even
a four-Sticky-four-Ice Queen deck can´t stop him. He also uses massive
Wanted and Riots, of course. With such a deck, you can keep on crippling
the opponent calmly until you´ve got four or five Runners out and then
get one "bash" objective after another - literally, using Bulldogs.
Btw, the brute deck also got up to 12 points of armor at one point, so
how´s that for pathetic little Ant Queen?

Felix
Message no. 13
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves Deck.
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:45:40 -0800
---Rookie <rookie@********.COM> wrote:
>
> Well I had a chance to go against Loki's poisoned Elves deck Saturday
> evening. Yes I will admit he had alot more tricks than I do.
Considering he
> has double the amount of cards & with Loki's help developing my
deck. His
> poisoned elves deck could not stand up.
>
> & I didn't even get Torgo out.

Granted, I lost two of the two games.

However, you left out two minor details:

1. I was also answering questions for a new member to our SR RPG group
and helping him design a new character for that night's gaming session.

2. I was having to watch after my 1-year-old daughter while my wife
was off running errands.

Both of these going on during game play admittedly had my
concentration and strategy at less than par.

Rookie, Tony Glinka is wanting to test his Four Horseman deck aginst
Poisoned Elves next Saturday. What say you get in on that game as
well? I'll be sure my wife will be able to watch Willow, so my
attention will be all yours. ;o)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 2/26/98
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Message no. 14
From: "Ken Dirk (DrugDoc)" <dirkkenn@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves Deck.
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 10:59:14 -0800
Loki wrote:
>
> ---Rookie <rookie@********.COM> wrote:
> >
> > Well I had a chance to go against Loki's poisoned Elves deck Saturday
> > evening. Yes I will admit he had alot more tricks than I do.
> Considering he
> > has double the amount of cards & with Loki's help developing my
> deck. His
> > poisoned elves deck could not stand up.
> >
> > & I didn't even get Torgo out.
>
> Granted, I lost two of the two games.
>
> However, you left out two minor details:
>
> 1. I was also answering questions for a new member to our SR RPG group
> and helping him design a new character for that night's gaming session.
>
> 2. I was having to watch after my 1-year-old daughter while my wife
> was off running errands.
>
> Both of these going on during game play admittedly had my
> concentration and strategy at less than par.
>
> Rookie, Tony Glinka is wanting to test his Four Horseman deck aginst
> Poisoned Elves next Saturday. What say you get in on that game as
> well? I'll be sure my wife will be able to watch Willow, so my
> attention will be all yours. ;o)
>

You mean that it is easier to write e-mail while taking pot shots at
large trolls, than it is to play cards while watching an active child?
Uhm, guess I answered my own question (grin).

Ken Dirk (DrugDoc)
Message no. 15
From: Rookie <rookie@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Poisoned Elves Deck.
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:11:32 -0700
> Granted, I lost two of the two games.
>
> However, you left out two minor details:
>
> 1. I was also answering questions for a new member to our SR RPG group
> and helping him design a new character for that night's gaming session.
>
> 2. I was having to watch after my 1-year-old daughter while my wife
> was off running errands.
>
> Both of these going on during game play admittedly had my
> concentration and strategy at less than par.

Considering I hardly ever play the game I think the odds where fair. :)

> Rookie, Tony Glinka is wanting to test his Four Horseman deck aginst
> Poisoned Elves next Saturday. What say you get in on that game as
> well? I'll be sure my wife will be able to watch Willow, so my
> attention will be all yours. ;o)

Shure why not!

-Rookie

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