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Message no. 1
From: Michael/Tamara Lorenz-Pease <treehugr@****.ON.ROGERS.WAVE.CA>
Subject: [SR] Third list of Questions
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 18:43:34 -0400
Hi Loki and Club!

I have another barrage of questions that I was hoping to get an official
ruling upon.

1) Chomps 2000 Challenge: The card states that Chomps does not take any
DMG the first time that he is revealed. Soooooo, it was my understanding
that upon revealing CHOMPS, that current Shadowrun was over because of
the inability to kill Chomps. Can we have a ruling on this?

2) How many runners can actually participate on a run? This is driving
me NUTS!!!! The rule book says only 6 runners...fine, but can a 7th
runner use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost? yes/no? What if you
started our with six, but through attrition you drop down to 5, can you
then use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost?
Red Widow's special is that she is allowed to TAP, in order to join the
current Shadowrun, can she join a Shadowrun that ALREADY has 6 runners?
If one runner of a team that previously held 6 dies, can you then send
in Red Widow to replace him/her?

3) Stingers/Specials/and that Damned "Green Apple Quicksteps"
Okay I have a problem with this and the whole timing issue. For example
say I have Sam The Sleuth in my running team, we approach a challenge,
and turn it over. 'Lo and behold Sammy's skills allow my team to sleaze
it, so I wait a few seconds to see if anyone is doing anything and then
I say, " Hey, I am sleazing this challenge"... my opponent replies,
"really??? How?" .... to which I point to Sammy, and my opponent then
plays the "Green Apple Quicksteps" and thus SAmmy has to return to the
safehouse.
This lack of timing pisses me off. Shouldn;t they have played the card
prior to revealing the challenge? Since it was my turn, shouldn't my
effects go first, ie: Sammy skills working prior to being sent back?
Or how about "Reinforcements: being played right after you finish the
last challenge? There HAS to be a ruling on this.... When is it legal to
play these damnable cards?

4) Deckers don;t tap to use programs. Fine. But can TAPPED deckers use
untapped programs? For example can a decker who has tapped to heal
himself ... then use a program which would be currently in its untapped
state?

5) Can you use Runners special abilities, spells and programs at your
leisure as if they were all classed as Stinger cards?

6) Loaded Dice: Do you have to call whether you want to add or subtract
prior to rolling the dice. Silly question, but if you read the card
closely, it could go either way.


Thanks guys/gal for your assistance with my latest barrage of
questions.

Tamara
[AMMO]LadyDeath
http://ammo.mgl.ca/lady
Message no. 2
From: Brett Barksdale <brett@***.ORST.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SR] Third list of Questions
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 16:03:47 -0700
>I have another barrage of questions that I was hoping to get an official
>ruling upon.
>
> 1) Chomps 2000 Challenge: The card states that Chomps does not take any
>DMG the first time that he is revealed. Soooooo, it was my understanding
>that upon revealing CHOMPS, that current Shadowrun was over because of
>the inability to kill Chomps. Can we have a ruling on this?

If inflicting damage is the only way your runners have to get around
Chomps, then yes. However, Chomps can still be sleazed with 2 Social and
spells like Sleep etc. should work just fine.

> 2) How many runners can actually participate on a run? This is driving
>me NUTS!!!! The rule book says only 6 runners...fine, but can a 7th
>runner use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost? yes/no?

No. FASA has ruled on this already.

>What if you
>started our with six, but through attrition you drop down to 5, can you
>then use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost?

Unsure what the actual ruling is, but I seriously doubt it.

> Red Widow's special is that she is allowed to TAP, in order to join the
>current Shadowrun, can she join a Shadowrun that ALREADY has 6 runners?
>If one runner of a team that previously held 6 dies, can you then send
>in Red Widow to replace him/her?

You can't send her in as a 7th runner using her special ability. If one
runner dies, again, unsure what the actual ruling is, but I doubt that's
legal either.

> 3) Stingers/Specials/and that Damned "Green Apple Quicksteps"
> Okay I have a problem with this and the whole timing issue. For example
>say I have Sam The Sleuth in my running team, we approach a challenge,
>and turn it over. 'Lo and behold Sammy's skills allow my team to sleaze
>it, so I wait a few seconds to see if anyone is doing anything and then
>I say, " Hey, I am sleazing this challenge"... my opponent replies,
>"really??? How?" .... to which I point to Sammy, and my opponent then
>plays the "Green Apple Quicksteps" and thus SAmmy has to return to the
>safehouse.

I still have yet to see the actual ruling. But, so far, our house rule(s)
has been very unforgiving of this sort of "fast action". Basically, we
divide shadowruns into (going in) (challenge) (between challenge) (challenge)
(between challenge) (challenge) (going to objective) (objective).

The way we currently play is that, once a challenge is exposed by a running
team, it is too late to use Green Apple Quicksteps.

> This lack of timing pisses me off. Shouldn;t they have played the card
>prior to revealing the challenge?

That is my belief. Nothing official, though.

>Since it was my turn, shouldn't my
>effects go first, ie: Sammy skills working prior to being sent back?

Ditto.

>Or how about "Reinforcements: being played right after you finish the
>last challenge? There HAS to be a ruling on this.... When is it legal to
>play these damnable cards?

/This/, on the other hand, I see as being perfectly valid. To me,
reinforcements should be playable any time during a run. Obviously, the
best time to use it is when all of the challenges have been removed.
But again, this is not an official ruling.

> 4) Deckers don;t tap to use programs. Fine. But can TAPPED deckers use
>untapped programs? For example can a decker who has tapped to heal
>himself ... then use a program which would be currently in its untapped
>state?

I don't know.

>5) Can you use Runners special abilities, spells and programs at your
>leisure as if they were all classed as Stinger cards?

Most of them, yes.

>6) Loaded Dice: Do you have to call whether you want to add or subtract
>prior to rolling the dice. Silly question, but if you read the card
>closely, it could go either way.

Good question. Another good question is, if someone plays Luck of the Irish
to stop a special card and another player also has Luck of the Irish, do
they have to play Luck of the Irish on the first Luck of the Irish before
or after the roll is made? After all, if the roll fails, the person
wouldn't want to waste that card...

- Brett
Message no. 3
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR] Third list of Questions
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 1997 05:42:28 -0700
> > 3) Stingers/Specials/and that Damned "Green Apple Quicksteps"
> > Okay I have a problem with this and the whole timing issue. For example
> >say I have Sam The Sleuth in my running team, we approach a challenge,
> >and turn it over. 'Lo and behold Sammy's skills allow my team to sleaze
> >it, so I wait a few seconds to see if anyone is doing anything and then
> >I say, " Hey, I am sleazing this challenge"... my opponent replies,
> >"really??? How?" .... to which I point to Sammy, and my opponent then
> >plays the "Green Apple Quicksteps" and thus SAmmy has to return to the
> >safehouse.

> I still have yet to see the actual ruling. But, so far, our house rule(s)
> has been very unforgiving of this sort of "fast action". Basically, we
> divide shadowruns into (going in) (challenge) (between challenge) (challenge)
> (between challenge) (challenge) (going to objective) (objective).

One problem with this: items like the Stimpatch, which have to be played
immediately after resolving damage (during the challenge, it seems).
Any "pump-up" action, too (unless you're going to force the owner of the
challenge to spend money before it's revealed?)

> The way we currently play is that, once a challenge is exposed by a running
> team, it is too late to use Green Apple Quicksteps.

This is what I go by, too. It limits the effectiveness of the card,
somewhat, but that's all right :) Still works wonders with All Or
Nothing.

> > 4) Deckers don;t tap to use programs. Fine. But can TAPPED deckers use
> >untapped programs? For example can a decker who has tapped to heal
> >himself ... then use a program which would be currently in its untapped
> >state?

I'd say no; the Runner has 'done his stuff' - he's to busy healing that
day to try and Blackhammer another decker. Similarly with mages and
spells.

> >6) Loaded Dice: Do you have to call whether you want to add or subtract
> >prior to rolling the dice. Silly question, but if you read the card
> >closely, it could go either way.

Prior. C'mon.

> Good question. Another good question is, if someone plays Luck of the Irish
> to stop a special card and another player also has Luck of the Irish, do
> they have to play Luck of the Irish on the first Luck of the Irish before
> or after the roll is made? After all, if the roll fails, the person
> wouldn't want to waste that card...

Luck of the Irish can be played as a retcon ('a special card in play or
one that has just been played') This makes it sound like it can be
played after the first has been 'resolved' and the roll has been made.


Don't take any of these as offcial answers, of course.
Message no. 4
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR] Third list of Questions
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 1997 20:08:55 -0700
---Michael/Tamara Lorenz-Pease wrote:
>
> 1) Chomps 2000 Challenge: The card states that Chomps does
not take any
> DMG the first time that he is revealed. Soooooo, it was my
understanding
> that upon revealing CHOMPS, that current Shadowrun was over because
of
> the inability to kill Chomps. Can we have a ruling on this?

Correct, unless you can sleaze him Chomps ends your shadowrun the
first time you encounter him, and leaves you to divvy up 6 points of
damage.

> 2) How many runners can actually participate on a run? This
is driving
> me NUTS!!!! The rule book says only 6 runners...fine, but can a 7th
> runner use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost? yes/no? What if you
> started our with six, but through attrition you drop down to 5, can
you
> then use indirect fire or A Sniper's Roost?

This is from the FASA FAQ:

**********
Can I have 6 Runners on a shadowrun and also use a Runner in the
Sniper Roost and/or have a Runner use Indirect Fire?
No. The maximum number of Runners that may participate in a shadowrun
is 6. This maximum includes Deckers.
**********

> Red Widow's special is that she is allowed to TAP, in order
to join the
> current Shadowrun, can she join a Shadowrun that ALREADY has 6
runners?

No, you're at your max already.

> If one runner of a team that previously held 6 dies, can you then
send
> in Red Widow to replace him/her?

Good question. I'd tend to say no, as I feel you had six slots
committed to the run and filled them at the beginning. If you think
you may need Red Widow on the run to help sleaze or fight, you should
have the spot left open for her from the beginning. The is just MHO
and may be subject to change as I see other viewpoints.

> 3) Stingers/Specials/and that Damned "Green Apple Quicksteps"
> Okay I have a problem with this and the whole timing issue.
For example
> say I have Sam The Sleuth in my running team, we approach a
challenge,
> and turn it over. 'Lo and behold Sammy's skills allow my team to
sleaze
> it, so I wait a few seconds to see if anyone is doing anything and
then
> I say, " Hey, I am sleazing this challenge"... my opponent replies,
> "really??? How?" .... to which I point to Sammy, and my opponent then
> plays the "Green Apple Quicksteps" and thus SAmmy has to return to
the
> safehouse.
> This lack of timing pisses me off. Shouldn;t they have
played the card
> prior to revealing the challenge? Since it was my turn, shouldn't my
> effects go first, ie: Sammy skills working prior to being sent back?
> Or how about "Reinforcements: being played right after you
finish the
> last challenge? There HAS to be a ruling on this.... When is it
legal to
> play these damnable cards?

From the FASA FAQ:

**********
If 2 cards come into conflict, how do I resolve the dispute?
The player whose turn it currently is plays his card first; otherwise,
both you and your opponent should roll D6. The card of the player with
the higher roll takes effect this turn.
**********

I'd say since it's your turn and you've declared you are using Sam's
ability it's too late for your opponent to throw out GAQS. They should
have been aware of the Challenge before it was turned over if it was
their's, or at least watching as it was turned over in a multi-player
game. Especially if you gave them a few seconds to respond.

If it really comes down to it, roll a d6 to settle the timing issue as
FASA suggests (another place to use Loaded Dice?). Still, I feel
timing was on your side for this one.

> 4) Deckers don;t tap to use programs. Fine. But can TAPPED
deckers use
> untapped programs? For example can a decker who has tapped to heal
> himself ... then use a program which would be currently in its
untapped
> state?

No, a decker must be untapped to activate a matrix gear card.

> 5) Can you use Runners special abilities, spells and
programs at your
> leisure as if they were all classed as Stinger cards?

This came up, and was pretty much answered in the response from FASA
on when Archie's special may be used. This repsonse was posted, you
might get a copy in the list archives. Anyways, FASA basically said
that common sense is to be used on this. Special abilities (like
Archies) for the most part may be used as stingers, gear and spells
are really going to depend on an individual basis. Logic is the main
thing that will tell you when something may be played, cuz you really
can't get every situation in B&W.

This was not just an easy answer. It'll probably be best handled with
case by case questions. ;o)

> 6) Loaded Dice: Do you have to call whether you want to add
or subtract
> prior to rolling the dice. Silly question, but if you read the card
> closely, it could go either way.

No. Playing the card before a die roll allows you to adjust a die roll
by +1 or -1, whichever you find to your benefit.

-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 5
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: [SR] Third list of Questions
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 12:33:22 -0700
---Andrew Payne III wrote:
>
> ---Michael/Tamara Lorenz-Pease wrote:
> >
> > 3) Red Widow's special is that she is allowed to TAP, in order to
> join
> > the current Shadowrun. If one runner of a team that previously
held 6 dies, can
> > you then send in Red Widow to replace him/her?
> >
>
> I would have to say that Red Widow can only be used to bring your
team
> back up to the size max. I would like to see a offical response on
> this but I will play it this way until then.

I just shot an email off to FASA asking about using Red Widow in that
instance. We have a hung jury in opinions here on the list. Plus,
she's one of my fav cards (four in my current deck) and I'd like to
know all the official ways I can put her to use. :o)

I've also tagged on a question about timing with GAQS. I included the
example from Tony where Torgo's Anti Social trait triggered the alarm
and he was sent home leaving Nightshade to fight alone. I also
referred to the example where Sam the Sleuth would've sleazed the
challenge and after this was delcared he was hit with GAQS.

Their response will be posted here per usual.

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
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