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Message no. 1
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 00:46:34 +0800
To all the playtesters on this list, these are my suggestions for the 2nd
edition.

1)Rulebook
Generally well laid out... but please update (Clarifications on the
difference between runners, drones & spirits for example). Also the info for
deckers is quite misplaced. It's described under the gear - matrix
section... Maybe a short desciption for the runner types is in order....
Which brings me to my second gripe....

2)Keywords
The keywords in the game are VERY fuzzy. Eg what specifically is a corperate
challenge? As I can't find a single challenge with a corperate keyword, I
identify it by the title. This leads to confusion. Also along the same line,
the runner's professions are very blurred. What's the difference between a
'Mage', 'Street Mage' and a 'Burned Out Mage'. Is 'Mage' the profession and
the others just adjatives with special significance (ie keywords or special
traits? which one I don't know)? What about 'Rat Shaman'? Or 'Ganger' and
'Ganger Leader'? Is the Ganger in 'Ganger Leader' an ajdative? Or is
'Ganager Leader' a profession (which would explain why Torgo can't get
LotP)? This particular 'fuzziness' in the cards have sparked many arguements
on the list pls clear it up.

Thanks.
Message no. 2
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:41:12 -0700
hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG> wrote:
>The keywords in the game are VERY fuzzy. Eg what specifically is a corperate
>challenge? As I can't find a single challenge with a corperate keyword, I
>identify it by the title. This leads to confusion.

Although there are no corporate challenges in first Run or Underworld, I
believe there will be in Corp Wars, and Second Run should errata some of
the First Run cards to make them corporate challenges.

David
Message no. 3
From: "James E. Frazer" <jimmicane@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:56:11 -0700
>hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG> wrote:
>>The keywords in the game are VERY fuzzy. Eg what specifically is a corperate
>>challenge? As I can't find a single challenge with a corperate keyword, I
>>identify it by the title. This leads to confusion.
>
>Although there are no corporate challenges in first Run or Underworld, I
>believe there will be in Corp Wars, and Second Run should errata some of
>the First Run cards to make them corporate challenges.
>
>David

Here's an obvious question, so I'm sure it's probably been asked already. If it has, I
missed the post and the follow ups, so forgive the reasking. This is relate to the above
question:

Ok, Lone Star HQ says that it adds +1/+1 to ALL Lone Star runners and Lone Star
Challenges. The question is, what IS a Lone Star challenge? Is it something like a
Ganger or a Street Sam where is says it in the title (IE: Lone Star Patrol, Lone Star K9
Unit), or is it like Awakened challenges where is actually says it in the unit type (IE:
Lone Star K9 Unit is simple an Awakened challenge). I've been playing it like the first
choice. In other words, my 5/4 K9 unit would be a 8/7 K9 Unit if I had 3 Lone Star HQ's
out at once. Is this the right way to play it? If so, it would make the Lone Star Patrol
(6/6 (A2) 1Y: +1/+1) pretty sweet in the Lone Star decks.

Thanks in advance,
Hurricane


Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com
Message no. 4
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 01:47:01 +0800
<SNIP>
>Here's an obvious question, so I'm sure it's probably been asked already.
If it has, I missed the post and the follow ups, so forgive the reasking.
This is relate to the above question:

This is an example of my statement...

>Ok, Lone Star HQ says that it adds +1/+1 to ALL Lone Star runners and Lone
Star Challenges. The question is, what IS a Lone Star challenge? Is it
something like a Ganger or a Street Sam where is says it in the title (IE:
Lone Star Patrol, Lone Star K9 Unit), or is it like Awakened challenges
where is actually says it in the unit type (IE: Lone Star K9 Unit is simple
an Awakened challenge). I've been playing it like the first choice. In
other words, my 5/4 K9 unit would be a 8/7 K9 Unit if I had 3 Lone Star HQ's
out at once. Is this the right way to play it? If so, it would make the
Lone Star Patrol (6/6 (A2) 1Y: +1/+1) pretty sweet in the Lone Star decks.

As you note the Lone Star is not a Keyword as defined by the rulebook but is
located in the Title....

And to Hurricane : Until further clarified, I'd play it that way....
Message no. 5
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 08:20:57 -0700
hansen wrote:

> To all the playtesters on this list, these are my suggestions for the 2nd
> edition.

> 1)Rulebook
> Generally well laid out... but please update (Clarifications on the
> difference between runners, drones & spirits for example). Also the info for
> deckers is quite misplaced. It's described under the gear - matrix
> section... Maybe a short desciption for the runner types is in order....
> Which brings me to my second gripe....

I actually find that the Matrix Gear is pretty well located where it is
at the moment (y'know, under the Gear section.) I wrote up an expanded
section on Step 2 of Shadowrunning (Select Your Runners) that I passed
to FASA a long while back; I'll see if I can dig it up and re-post it.

> 2)Keywords
> The keywords in the game are VERY fuzzy. Eg what specifically is a corperate
> challenge? As I can't find a single challenge with a corperate keyword, I
> identify it by the title.

That's only because, at the moment, there are none in the game. Expect
to see a number of different Corp cards in the Corp War (where else?).
This'll probably include both Challenges and Runners, same as Lone Star.

> This leads to confusion. Also along the same line,
> the runner's professions are very blurred. What's the difference between a
> 'Mage', 'Street Mage' and a 'Burned Out Mage'.

The differences are all pretty well spelled out in the RBT. Is there a
specific card you think raises a problem?

> Is 'Mage' the profession and
> the others just adjatives with special significance (ie keywords or special
> traits? which one I don't know)? What about 'Rat Shaman'? Or 'Ganger' and
> 'Ganger Leader'? Is the Ganger in 'Ganger Leader' an ajdative? Or is
> 'Ganager Leader' a profession (which would explain why Torgo can't get
> LotP)? This particular 'fuzziness' in the cards have sparked many arguements
> on the list pls clear it up.

I really found it hard to believe that anyone raised these issues in the
first place. I'll leave off here before the flame war begins again.


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 6
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 00:42:03 +0800
>hansen wrote:
>
>> To all the playtesters on this list, these are my suggestions for the 2nd
>> edition.
>
>> 1)Rulebook
>> Generally well laid out... but please update (Clarifications on the
>> difference between runners, drones & spirits for example). Also the info
for
>> deckers is quite misplaced. It's described under the gear - matrix
>> section... Maybe a short desciption for the runner types is in order....
>> Which brings me to my second gripe....
>
>I actually find that the Matrix Gear is pretty well located where it is
>at the moment (y'know, under the Gear section.) I wrote up an expanded
>section on Step 2 of Shadowrunning (Select Your Runners) that I passed
>to FASA a long while back; I'll see if I can dig it up and re-post it.


I don't happen to have aproblem with the location of matrix gear. Just this
statement 'Unless otherwise noted, a Decker uses Programs to assist or
affect a shadowrun in progress without leaving the safehouse.' I feel that
this should be described in the runner section....

>> 2)Keywords
>> The keywords in the game are VERY fuzzy. Eg what specifically is a
corperate
>> challenge? As I can't find a single challenge with a corperate keyword, I
>> identify it by the title.
>
>That's only because, at the moment, there are none in the game. Expect
>to see a number of different Corp cards in the Corp War (where else?).
>This'll probably include both Challenges and Runners, same as Lone Star.
>
>> This leads to confusion. Also along the same line,
>> the runner's professions are very blurred. What's the difference between
a
>> 'Mage', 'Street Mage' and a 'Burned Out Mage'.
>
>The differences are all pretty well spelled out in the RBT. Is there a
>specific card you think raises a problem?
>
>> Is 'Mage' the profession and
>> the others just adjatives with special significance (ie keywords or
special
>> traits? which one I don't know)? What about 'Rat Shaman'? Or 'Ganger' and
>> 'Ganger Leader'? Is the Ganger in 'Ganger Leader' an ajdative? Or is
>> 'Ganger Leader' a profession (which would explain why Torgo can't get
>> LotP)? This particular 'fuzziness' in the cards have sparked many
arguements
>> on the list pls clear it up.
>
>I really found it hard to believe that anyone raised these issues in the
>first place. I'll leave off here before the flame war begins again.

Ah yes the flame war... (Pls don't start it. You'll find yourself cold and
lonely as most of us in the old one have agreed on a temp. truce on this.)
Thats the reason I brought this up.... It could spoil a game if 2 players
held different opinions.... (Despite the D6 recommendation)
Message no. 7
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 11:42:25 -0700
hansen wrote:

> Ah yes the flame war... (Pls don't start it. You'll find yourself cold and
> lonely as most of us in the old one have agreed on a temp. truce on this.)
> Thats the reason I brought this up.... It could spoil a game if 2 players
> held different opinions.... (Despite the D6 recommendation)

I suppose the object of the lesson (and something Mike and Jim have
mentioned on occasion) is that this is only a game. In the grand scheme
of things, it doesn't matter if Torgo is a Ganger Leader but not a
Ganger; nor that LT's a Ganger-Leader-but-not-a-Ganger this game but a
Ganger-Leader-and-a-Ganger next game. Opinions, like small waterfowl,
suffer only when you clench them around the neck and squeeze.

It is a thankfully different mentality than what MtG and L5R foster.


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 8
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 01:19:45 +0800
>hansen wrote:
>
>> Ah yes the flame war... (Pls don't start it. You'll find yourself cold
and
>> lonely as most of us in the old one have agreed on a temp. truce on
this.)
>> Thats the reason I brought this up.... It could spoil a game if 2 players
>> held different opinions.... (Despite the D6 recommendation)
>
>I suppose the object of the lesson (and something Mike and Jim have
>mentioned on occasion) is that this is only a game.

A game is supposed to be fun. Argueing over opinions is not.

>In the grand scheme
>of things, it doesn't matter if Torgo is a Ganger Leader but not a
>Ganger; nor that LT's a Ganger-Leader-but-not-a-Ganger this game but a
>Ganger-Leader-and-a-Ganger next game.

True but it'll be inconsistant..... I'd personally like to know also if I'm
building a deck....

>Opinions, like small waterfowl,
>suffer only when you clench them around the neck and squeeze.

Or they could be like small rodents after u break all 4 limbs (1 by 1 of
course, giving it time to recover after u snap 1), expose it to hypothermia,
then soak it in kerosene and light it.... :}

>It is a thankfully different mentality than what MtG and L5R foster.


Neither of these games started like this.... They grew to become like
this.... SRTCG will grow (how I know? I'm psychic! and i also put ten bucks
on it!)
Message no. 9
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for 2nd Edition
Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 12:12:34 -0700
hansen wrote:

> >In the grand scheme
> >of things, it doesn't matter if Torgo is a Ganger Leader but not a
> >Ganger; nor that LT's a Ganger-Leader-but-not-a-Ganger this game but a
> >Ganger-Leader-and-a-Ganger next game.

> True but it'll be inconsistant..... I'd personally like to know also if I'm
> building a deck....

I take comfort in the fact that the nastiest Runner may or may not
always cooperate with his owner.

> >It is a thankfully different mentality than what MtG and L5R foster.

> Neither of these games started like this.... They grew to become like
> this.... SRTCG will grow (how I know? I'm psychic! and i also put ten bucks
> on it!)

L5R may not have started that way, but it was pretty well ingrained by
the release of Forbidden Knowledge. There were enough cards in the
original release that prompted the foo rule, among other questions.
Magic was always straying down that path - even in the original set, you
had "Summon Goblin" and "Summon Goblins" cards for the Goblin Lord to
affect equally well - but things only got worse post-Ice Age. The
game's less concerned with keywords, so it simply will never become as
important.

As to SRTCG becoming that way -- I don't know. I'm pushing for it not
to become like that.


- Matt

------------------------------------
In a dark time, the eye begins to see. - T. Roethke

GridSec: SRCard
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm

Further Reading

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