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Message no. 1
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 00:50:47 +0200
Once again, here´s a T:S question.
How is the following situation resolved: 2 Ajax (3/3 each) run into a
Killer Drone (7/9 (A2)) after seeing their friend Macabre leaving the
scene due to indigestion. I play T:S on one Ajax. Since the damage this
Runner is supposed to receive is to be divided evenly upon the Runners,
would this Ajax finally get away with 1 or 2 damage (3/2 or 4/2), or
could my opponent claim that the full 7 damage must be divided, killing
both Ajax´.
On one hand, no damage can be assigned to a Runner above his Body
rating, on the other, the damage must be divided before being allocated.
How can I divide damage a Runner receives before he receives it? To
complicate things further, my opponent claims that by some obscure
source (RBT or SRCARD list or FAQ or what have you), the Killer Drone
counts as a Runner for purpose of damage allocation (supposedly by some
Challenge rule).
Imagine what would happen if some of that damage was AP...

Felix
Message no. 2
From: Sean Henke <F14DSJH@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:05:59 EDT
Greetings,
When we use the card tactics scatter, as it is a special it is played
after the challenge is shown but before damage is taken. At that point you
would determine if you wanted to play tactics scatter. If there are 2 runners
and the damage is 7 points it is divided between the two runners evenly and
then the extra point is assigned by the player who is on the run. If damage is
more than either can take and there are no cards to change this such as stim
patches, etc. then why go to the trouble of worrying where that extra damage
will go. There is a good example of time and special cards in the Q&A at FASA
home page for the game that includes specials and timing. Hope this helps.

Sean
Message no. 3
From: Sean Henke <F14DSJH@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 19:10:56 EDT
Greetings,
Almost forgot about the end of your post about the drone that acts
like a runner for combat perposes. I have never heard of that ruling and its
not in the Q&A about that challenge. The only card that i can even think of
that treats a challenge like a runner is Lone Star Undercover Agent and
Runners on Retainer. Even then they are still a challenge taking the place of
the old challenge. Unless there is data to the otherwise. Unless the player
could furnish this obscure rule i would tell him it is treated as a challenge
otherwise it would be a runner if it was to be treated like one wouldn't it.
Hope this helps.

Sean
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 01:08:51 -0700
Felix Hoefert wrote:

> Once again, here´s a T:S question.
> How is the following situation resolved: 2 Ajax (3/3 each) run into a
> Killer Drone (7/9 (A2)) after seeing their friend Macabre leaving the
> scene due to indigestion. I play T:S on one Ajax. Since the damage this=

> Runner is supposed to receive is to be divided evenly upon the Runners,=

> would this Ajax finally get away with 1 or 2 damage (3/2 or 4/2), or
> could my opponent claim that the full 7 damage must be divided, killing=

> both Ajax´.

Killer Drone only (initially) attacks one Runner; T:S gets around this,
however, by taking the damage dealt to that one Runner and
redistributing it across all Runners present. Seven damage, distributed
across two Runners, is three points each (already enough to kill both
Ajax's) and one extra, in case of Stimpatches.

A 'normal' Challenge can deal damage to more than one Runner, though. =

T:S only redistributes the damage that oen particular Runner received;
and if the other Runners present are alraedy fatally wounded, it doesn't
have any benefit -- the damage can't be applied to fatally wounded
Runners, so it all comes back to its original target. (If you had,
however, five points of damage being redistributed across three Body-1
Runners, those three points would hammer the three Runners, and two
'return' to the original target.)

> To complicate things further, my opponent claims that by some obscure
> source (RBT or SRCARD list or FAQ or what have you), the Killer Drone
> counts as a Runner for purpose of damage allocation (supposedly by some=

> Challenge rule).

Nope. Cards that specify Runners only affect Runners. Cards that
affect Runners and Challenges would affect both Runners and Challenges
(viz, the Halloweeners HQ).


- Matt

ObFix: After Security Decker, Security Rigger and Anti-Astral Barrier
are encountered on a shadowrun, they;re attached to the Objective. All
three would have to be passed before meeting the requirements of the
Objective.

Sound good?


------------------------------------
The truth will set you free - but first it's gonna piss you off.
- Kanya Vashon McGhee

GridSec: SRCard / Freedonian Research Assistant
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 5
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 1998 17:02:50 -0700
Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE> wrote:
>To complicate things further, my opponent claims that by some obscure
>source (RBT or SRCARD list or FAQ or what have you), the Killer Drone
>counts as a Runner for purpose of damage allocation (supposedly by some
>Challenge rule).
>Imagine what would happen if some of that damage was AP...
>
Could he possibly be misinterpreting the part of the rulebook where it says
drones are treated as runners in combat? Only Gear/Drones should be
treated like runners in combat, not Challenges with "Drone" in the title text.

David
Message no. 6
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 08:56:02 -0700
---Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE> wrote:
>
> Once again, here´s a T:S question.
> How is the following situation resolved: 2 Ajax (3/3 each) run into a
> Killer Drone (7/9 (A2)) after seeing their friend Macabre leaving the
> scene due to indigestion. I play T:S on one Ajax. Since the damage this
> Runner is supposed to receive is to be divided evenly upon the Runners,
> would this Ajax finally get away with 1 or 2 damage (3/2 or 4/2), or
> could my opponent claim that the full 7 damage must be divided, killing
> both Ajax´.
> On one hand, no damage can be assigned to a Runner above his Body
> rating, on the other, the damage must be divided before being allocated.
> How can I divide damage a Runner receives before he receives it?

You'd have to apply the 7 points among both Ajax as evenly as possible. So one
will take 3 points and one will take 4, effectively killing them both.

> complicate things further, my opponent claims that by some obscure
> source (RBT or SRCARD list or FAQ or what have you), the Killer Drone
> counts as a Runner for purpose of damage allocation (supposedly by some
> Challenge rule).

I think what he's referring to is the RBT entry regarding Gear/Drone cards
that states Drones are treated as Runners for the purpose of combat (i.e. -
fatigue, combat timing, allocating Runner-on-Runner, etc.) Not much of that
applies to Drone Challenges though.

-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 7
From: Olaf kramer <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 19:51:01 +0200
>
> You'd have to apply the 7 points among both Ajax as evenly as possible. So one
> will take 3 points and one will take 4, effectively killing them both.
>
> > complicate things further, my opponent claims that by some obscure
> > source (RBT or SRCARD list or FAQ or what have you), the Killer Drone
> > counts as a Runner for purpose of damage allocation (supposedly by some
> > Challenge rule).
>
> I think what he's referring to is the RBT entry regarding Gear/Drone cards
> that states Drones are treated as Runners for the purpose of combat (i.e. -
> fatigue, combat timing, allocating Runner-on-Runner, etc.) Not much of that
> applies to Drone Challenges though.
>
> -== Loki ==-
>
Hi
first of all i`m the one who have sayd dhat the damage goes to the killer drone
too.Because it is writen in the german rullbook on page 14 under the point
"anwesende Runner"(sorry don`t know the english word).

OLAF
Message no. 8
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 11:27:32 -0700
---Olaf kramer <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE> wrote:
>
> > I think what he's referring to is the RBT entry regarding Gear/Drone cards
> > that states Drones are treated as Runners for the purpose of combat (i.e. -
> > fatigue, combat timing, allocating Runner-on-Runner, etc.) Not much of that
> > applies to Drone Challenges though.
> >
> > -== Loki ==-
> >
> Hi
> first of all i`m the one who have sayd dhat the damage goes to the killer
drone
> too.Because it is writen in the german rullbook on page 14 under the point
> "anwesende Runner"(sorry don`t know the english word).

Without knowing what the translation is supposed to be, I can't comment.

From the english RBT, and common sense being applied. I think the intent or
spirit of the card and rules is clear. Challenges are outside of Runners and
Gear/Drones or Gear/Spirits.

The Tactics shouldnot apply for damage being applied Challeges. It doesn't
make sense, and there are no other specials that work under those interpreted
mechanics to give a precedence.

The Tactics specials first and foremost affect damage being dealt to Runners.
The RBT (online and hardcopy) informs us that Gear/Drone and Gear/Spirit cards
function as Runners in regards to their role in combat; the suffer from
fatigue, the are assigned as a Runner would be in Runner-on-Runner combat,
etc. However, they are NOT a Runner in regards to cards affects that refer to
a Runner (with capital R). A drone cannot be sacrificed to a booby trap or
incubus. A drone cannot be assigned the "damage to one Runner" from things
like Manitcore or the Killer Drone. A drone could not be sacrificed in place
of a Runner to Widows Trap.

This is all clearly detailed in the errata on FASA's website.

Since a gear/drone cannot be used in place of a Runner as stated above. I
don't see how one could leap intuitively and say Tactics: Scatter would spread
damage to a Challenge like Killer Drone.

-== Loki ==-
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+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
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Message no. 9
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 18:59:37 +0200
Sean Henke wrote:
>
> Greetings,
> When we use the card tactics scatter, as it is a special it is played
> after the challenge is shown but before damage is taken. At that point you
> would determine if you wanted to play tactics scatter. If there are 2 runners
> and the damage is 7 points it is divided between the two runners evenly and
> then the extra point is assigned by the player who is on the run. If damage is
> more than either can take and there are no cards to change this such as stim
> patches, etc. then why go to the trouble of worrying where that extra damage
> will go. There is a good example of time and special cards in the Q&A at FASA
> home page for the game that includes specials and timing. Hope this helps.
>
To clarify this problem: the rbt states that Runners as well as
Challenges count as present. That´s where the discussion started in the
first place - my friend Olaf included the Challenge in the calculation.

Felix
Message no. 10
From: Olaf kramer <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 21:48:20 +0200
Felix Hoefert schrieb:
>
> >
> To clarify this problem: the rbt states that Runners as well as
> Challenges count as present. That´s where the discussion started in the
> first place - my friend Olaf included the Challenge in the calculation.
>
Felix
That`s what i mean.In the RBT (german) on page 14 under the point "present"
stands : .....1)On a Run present mean you runnerteam AND the revealt challenge
too.

OLAF
Message no. 11
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 13 Aug 1998 15:54:47 -0700
---Olaf kramer <Olaf-Kramer@********.DE> wrote:
>
> Felix Hoefert schrieb:
> >
> > >
> > To clarify this problem: the rbt states that Runners as well as
> > Challenges count as present. That´s where the discussion started in the
> > first place - my friend Olaf included the Challenge in the calculation.
> >
> Felix
> That`s what i mean.In the RBT (german) on page 14 under the point "present"
> stands : .....1)On a Run present mean you runnerteam AND the revealt challenge
> too.

Yes, but Tactics: Scatter will not work as you're trying to infer because it
reads:

"Play on target Runner who just took damage. This card takes effect before
that damage is applied. Damage intended for that Runner must be divided as
evenly as possible among all Runners present."

Thus, even though the Challenge is present, as you state. It is not a Runner,
and thus not valid for damage assigned from the play of T:S. As opposed to
something like Cortex Bomb that deals damage to all Runners/Challenges present.

This has been my point all along.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 4/9/98

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Message no. 12
From: Keldon Mor <Keldon@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 11:30:22 -0500
>"Play on target Runner who just took damage. This card takes effect before
>that damage is applied. Damage intended for that Runner must be divided as
>evenly as possible among all Runners present."

Just a side note: Let's not forget that this forces the runners to take the
damage, not by drones & spirits :) Can be quite a nice card indeed.
Message no. 13
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:55:50 +0200
Keldon Mor wrote:
>
> >"Play on target Runner who just took damage. This card takes effect before
> >that damage is applied. Damage intended for that Runner must be divided as
> >evenly as possible among all Runners present."
>
> Just a side note: Let's not forget that this forces the runners to take the
> damage, not by drones & spirits :) Can be quite a nice card indeed.

If damage is aimed at a Runner in the first place (not by standard
Challenges), the Runner/player may not choose to allocate the damage to
a drone anyway. If a player wants to involve a drone against a
Challenge, he may still choose to use his drone to catch the damage,
also using it to fight the Challenge. Since the Challenge´s damage would
then be intended for the drone, T:S doesn´t force the player to damage
his Runners. ---Felix
Message no. 14
From: "a . a" <alphirius@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:06:59 EDT
On Sun, 16 Aug 1998 01:55:50 +0200 Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
writes:
>Keldon Mor wrote:
>>
>> >"Play on target Runner who just took damage. This card takes effect
>before
>> >that damage is applied. Damage intended for that Runner must be
>divided as
>> >evenly as possible among all Runners present."
>>
>> Just a side note: Let's not forget that this forces the runners to
>take the
>> damage, not by drones & spirits :) Can be quite a nice card indeed.
>
>If damage is aimed at a Runner in the first place (not by standard
>Challenges), the Runner/player may not choose to allocate the damage
>to
>a drone anyway. If a player wants to involve a drone against a
>Challenge, he may still choose to use his drone to catch the damage,
>also using it to fight the Challenge. Since the Challenge´s damage
>would
>then be intended for the drone, T:S doesn´t force the player to damage
>his Runners. ---Felix
>
Sorry Felix,

I have to disagree with you on this one..... I'd have to say the damage
would be applied to both the runner and the drone as well..... if the
drone is going to be active.... Granted, your both screwed, but at
least it'll spread out the damage a bit more.....

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Message no. 15
From: Kent Riskedahl <krrisked@****.CO.NET>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Sat, 15 Aug 1998 21:35:44 -0500
>>>
>>> >"Play on target Runner who just took damage. This card takes effect
>>before
>>> >that damage is applied. Damage intended for that Runner must be
>>divided as
>>> >evenly as possible among all Runners present."
>>>

>>
>Sorry Felix,
>
>I have to disagree with you on this one..... I'd have to say the damage
>would be applied to both the runner and the drone as well..... if the
>drone is going to be active.... Granted, your both screwed, but at
>least it'll spread out the damage a bit more.....
>
>I will have to disagree with this. It has always been my understanding
that anything that refers to a Runner specifically will only affect that
runner or runners. Some people have been confusing this with the poor
wording in the rulebook that drones are treated as runners in combat.
Think of it this way. A drone doesn't have a brain, so therefore it
can't react. But the rigger will be affected by something messing with his
mind so he can't have his drones protect him.
That's IMHO.
_____________________________________________________________________
>You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
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>
Message no. 16
From: Keldon Mor <Keldon@********.NET>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 1996 15:33:38 -0500
>If damage is aimed at a Runner in the first place (not by standard
>Challenges), the Runner/player may not choose to allocate the damage to
>a drone anyway. If a player wants to involve a drone against a
>Challenge, he may still choose to use his drone to catch the damage,
>also using it to fight the Challenge. Since the Challenge´s damage would
>then be intended for the drone, T:S doesn´t force the player to damage
>his Runners. ---Felix

If you're playing house rules, that's fine. But if you're playing
straight SRTCG rules then, I strongly disagree. It's been stated in several
places that a Runner is a Runner, not drones, spirits, challenges, or
anything else. You cant trash a Drone when you hit booby trap. You can't
play Rough Night on a Spirit, you can't play Abducted! on Doberman Patrol
Vehicle no matter how much you want too, and you must play T:S on a Runner
(grated he must first take damage).
Now, if you put 3 points on Jack Hammer, and 6 points on Doberman Patrol
Vehicle, then play T:S, only 3 points gets distributed among runners. I
would also note that this is damage intended, not applied, so don't forget
about armor (ya, Torgo took 2 points but his armor took it, oh T:S, I guess
he'll take 1 and Jack Skater takes one killing him off, so sorry)
Probably the best use is when you face a Basilisk or something similar
so a runner doesn't get fragged. One of those good Offensive/Defensive
cards.

Peace,
Keldon Mor
Keldon@********.net
http://ww2.netnitco.net/users/keldon
"To bad ignorance isn't painful..."
Message no. 17
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Tactics: Scatter Question
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 1998 21:31:45 +0200
Keldon Mor wrote:
>
> >If damage is aimed at a Runner in the first place (not by standard
> >Challenges), the Runner/player may not choose to allocate the damage to
> >a drone anyway. If a player wants to involve a drone against a
> >Challenge, he may still choose to use his drone to catch the damage,
> >also using it to fight the Challenge. Since the Challenge´s damage would
> >then be intended for the drone, T:S doesn´t force the player to damage
> >his Runners. ---Felix
>
> If you're playing house rules, that's fine. But if you're playing
> straight SRTCG rules then, I strongly disagree. It's been stated in several
> places that a Runner is a Runner, not drones, spirits, challenges, or
> anything else. You cant trash a Drone when you hit booby trap. You can't
> play Rough Night on a Spirit, you can't play Abducted! on Doberman Patrol
> Vehicle no matter how much you want too, and you must play T:S on a Runner
> (grated he must first take damage).
> Now, if you put 3 points on Jack Hammer, and 6 points on Doberman Patrol
> Vehicle, then play T:S, only 3 points gets distributed among runners. I
> would also note that this is damage intended, not applied, so don't forget
> about armor (ya, Torgo took 2 points but his armor took it, oh T:S, I guess
> he'll take 1 and Jack Skater takes one killing him off, so sorry)
> Probably the best use is when you face a Basilisk or something similar
> so a runner doesn't get fragged. One of those good Offensive/Defensive
> cards.

Hey, that´s exactly what I meant in my post. I was trying to explain
that a Drone may only get damaged if its Runner is using it to fight the
Challenge, and only if the Challenge´s or any other damage isn´t
decisively intented for the Runner. A Runner can´t add his attack value
to his Drone´s. ---Felix

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