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Message no. 1
From: Cyclops250 <Cyclops250@***.COM>
Subject: Timing.
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 01:33:23 EDT
1. My opponent plays a Special, at which point I play Luck of the Irish. My
opponent waits for me to roll the dice, sees that the roll is successful, then
plays his own Luck to cancel mine. I then told him that this wasn't correct,
because he had time before the die roll to play his LOTI. He said that
nowhere on the card did it say when he could or couldn't play it. I said that
it wasn't correct, becuase once the die roll is made, for better or worse,
that's it. My point is that there has to be a point where you've had your
chance, and if you let it pass, too bad. I'll take any opinions on the
subject.

Later,
Joshua Hoade
cyclops250@***.com


"Follow your dreams, you can reach your goals, I'm living proof. Beefcake,
BEEFCAKE!!!" - Eric Cartman

"So you see, Simon and Simon were not brothers in real life, only on
television." - Eric Cartman
Message no. 2
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:49:27 EST
> 1. My opponent plays a Special, at which point I play Luck of the
> Irish. My opponent waits for me to roll the dice, sees that the
> roll is successful, then plays his own Luck to cancel mine. I then
> told him that this wasn't correct, because he had time before the
> die roll to play his LOTI. He said that nowhere on the card did it
> say when he could or couldn't play it. I said that it wasn't
> correct, becuase once the die roll is made, for better or worse,
> that's it. My point is that there has to be a point where you've
> had your chance, and if you let it pass, too bad. I'll take any
> opinions on the subject.

I'm going to vote against you here. As I see it, rolling the die is
part of playing LotI. Since the second LotI says it can cancel a
card "just played", it's a valid play. Indeed, if rolling is part of
playing, he COULDN'T play his LotI until after you had rolled.

-=SwiftOne=-
Message no. 3
From: Jon Edwards <jonathan.edwards@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:52:36 -0700
>1. My opponent plays a Special, at which point I play Luck of the Irish. =
My
>opponent waits for me to roll the dice, sees that the roll is successful,
then
>plays his own Luck to cancel mine. I then told him that this wasn't=
correct,
>because he had time before the die roll to play his LOTI. He said that
>nowhere on the card did it say when he could or couldn't play it. I said
that
>it wasn't correct, becuase once the die roll is made, for better or worse,
>that's it. My point is that there has to be a point where you've had your
>chance, and if you let it pass, too bad. I'll take any opinions on the
>subject.

I agree in part that there is and isn't a time to play the card. However,
the way we play it, countering someone's LOTI with another LOTI is
dependant on the first person's role. If Player A plays a LOTI on me and
chokes with a roll of 1, there's no need for me to play my LOTI.

<snip Card Text>
Luck of the Irish
Type: Special (Stinger)
Rarity: Common
Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just=
played
or
one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger than
you've got in your whole
shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
<snip!>

Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that means either one
just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.

Ultimately it could go either way. You're group should come to a general
consensus or roll for it. That way, you can avoid back-and-forth "did not,
did too" conversations like The Great Torgo Debate(sigh.... ;-)
Message no. 4
From: Tony Glinka <porthos@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:53:53 -0700
Cyclops250 wrote:

> 1. My opponent plays a Special, at which point I play Luck of the Irish. My
> opponent waits for me to roll the dice, sees that the roll is successful, then
> plays his own Luck to cancel mine. I then told him that this wasn't correct,
> because he had time before the die roll to play his LOTI. He said that
> nowhere on the card did it say when he could or couldn't play it. I said that
> it wasn't correct, becuase once the die roll is made, for better or worse,
> that's it. My point is that there has to be a point where you've had your
> chance, and if you let it pass, too bad. I'll take any opinions on the
> subject.

According to the answer we got from FASA (and listed in the Q&A):

Luck of the Irish:
Q1: When do you LotI someone else's LotI? Is it declared before the first LotI is
rolled or played after the first LotI is rolled?
A1: Before the first one takes effect. Otherwise, what's the point?

This is a bit ambiguous and I think I am going to write them for a clarification.

Here's an example on how Loki and I play it.
Loki plays a Metahuman Prejudice on my Skwraaaaaark!. I throw out my LotI to try
and cancel the MP. Loki decides to try and LotI my LotI. So he plays his LotI
and rolls. He fails. So I then roll for my LotI and fail. (Yes, I always fail.
I haven't made a LotI roll in more than 3 weeks.) Skwraaaaaark! goes back into
the deck and I have to dig out my 10 nuyen that I already dumped into the pot.

Tony
--
Porthos@****.com -- GridSec: SRCard
Porthos' World of Shadowrun: http://members.home.net/porthos/sr/sr.html
Tony's SRTCG Site: http://members.home.net/porthos/srtcg/srtcg.html
Home of the SRTCG Q&A: SRCard's Official Unofficial SRTCG FAQ
Message no. 5
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:07:37 +0200
Jon Edwards wrote:
>
> >1. My opponent plays a Special, at which point I play Luck of the Irish. My
> >opponent waits for me to roll the dice, sees that the roll is successful,
> then
> >plays his own Luck to cancel mine. I then told him that this wasn't correct,
> >because he had time before the die roll to play his LOTI. He said that
> >nowhere on the card did it say when he could or couldn't play it. I said
> that
> >it wasn't correct, becuase once the die roll is made, for better or worse,
> >that's it. My point is that there has to be a point where you've had your
> >chance, and if you let it pass, too bad. I'll take any opinions on the
> >subject.
>
> I agree in part that there is and isn't a time to play the card. However,
> the way we play it, countering someone's LOTI with another LOTI is
> dependant on the first person's role. If Player A plays a LOTI on me and
> chokes with a roll of 1, there's no need for me to play my LOTI.
>
> <snip Card Text>
> Luck of the Irish
> Type: Special (Stinger)
> Rarity: Common
> Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just played
> or
> one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger than
> you've got in your whole
> shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
> <snip!>
>
> Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
> played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that means either one
> just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
> stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.
>
> Ultimately it could go either way. You're group should come to a general
> consensus or roll for it. That way, you can avoid back-and-forth "did not,
> did too" conversations like The Great Torgo Debate(sigh.... ;-)

IMO, the card is gone as soon as the roll has taken place, and therefore
canīt be targetted by another LotI anymore. Playing a card and rolling
for it is not the same action. If you wait until the die has been
rolled, your chance is over. ---Felix
Message no. 6
From: Jon Edwards <jonathan.edwards@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:44:40 -0700
>> <snip Card Text>
>> Luck of the Irish
>> Type: Special (Stinger)
>> Rarity: Common
>> Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just=
played
>> or
>> one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger than
>> you've got in your whole
>> shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
>> <snip!>
>>
>> Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
>> played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that means either=
one
>> just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
>> stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.

>IMO, the card is gone as soon as the roll has taken place, and therefore
>can´t be targetted by another LotI anymore. Playing a card and rolling
>for it is not the same action. If you wait until the die has been
>rolled, your chance is over. ---Felix

Fair enough, except that once a card is rolled for, doesn't that count as
"Already in Play"?

Cheers,

Jon
Message no. 7
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:17:19 +0800
>>> <snip Card Text>
>>> Luck of the Irish
>>> Type: Special (Stinger)
>>> Rarity: Common
>>> Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just
played
>>> or
>>> one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger than
>>> you've got in your whole
>>> shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
>>> <snip!>
>>>
>>> Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
>>> played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that means
either
one
>>> just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
>>> stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.
>
>>IMO, the card is gone as soon as the roll has taken place, and therefore
>>canīt be targetted by another LotI anymore. Playing a card and rolling
>>for it is not the same action. If you wait until the die has been
>>rolled, your chance is over. ---Felix
>
>Fair enough, except that once a card is rolled for, doesn't that count as
>"Already in Play"?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jon


This is not M:tG... Nowhere does in the rules state that there is any sort
of timing frame.
IMHO played = When a card is declared. Everything on the card resolves at
once with no time frame for opponent to respond do anything. No turning for
special effect, no discarding for special effect or whatever.
Therefore when you deploy LotI you'll have to roll for it before he can
respond.
This is the only counter effect card in the game. It's bound to stir up a
discussion. Next person's opinion??
Message no. 8
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 14:26:29 +0200
Jon Edwards wrote:
>
> >> <snip Card Text>
> >> Luck of the Irish
> >> Type: Special (Stinger)
> >> Rarity: Common
> >> Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just
played
> >> or
> >> one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger than
> >> you've got in your whole
> >> shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
> >> <snip!>
> >>
> >> Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
> >> played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that means
either one
> >> just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
> >> stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.
>
> >IMO, the card is gone as soon as the roll has taken place, and therefore
> >canīt be targetted by another LotI anymore. Playing a card and rolling
> >for it is not the same action. If you wait until the die has been
> >rolled, your chance is over. ---Felix
>
> Fair enough, except that once a card is rolled for, doesn't that count as
> "Already in Play"?
>

Simple Specials, yes. But Stingers are removed from play as soon as
theyīve taken effect. LotI appears "In Play" for a brief DLOHīs
fingersnip (between played and rolled) and is gone again. ---Felix
Message no. 9
From: Longshot <lshot@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 08:53:23 -0400
> >>> <snip Card Text>
> >>> Luck of the Irish
> >>> Type: Special (Stinger)
> >>> Rarity: Common
> >>> Description: 0¥. Roll a D6, On a 4+ trash either a special card just
> played
> >>> or
> >>> one already in play.Notes: "I've got more luck in my little finger
than
> >>> you've got in your whole
> >>> shilelagh, laddie!"Illustrator: Janet Aulisio
> >>> <snip!>
> >>>
> >>> Card text says that trash a special card already in play or one just
> >>> played. I key off the phrase "just played." To me, that
means
either
> one
> >>> just laid down or one that has been rolled for. That seems to me to
> >>> stretch the amount of time you have to counter an opponents card.
> >
> >>IMO, the card is gone as soon as the roll has taken place, and
therefore
> >>canīt be targetted by another LotI anymore. Playing a card and rolling
> >>for it is not the same action. If you wait until the die has been
> >>rolled, your chance is over. ---Felix
> >
> >Fair enough, except that once a card is rolled for, doesn't that count
as
> >"Already in Play"?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Jon
>
>
> This is not M:tG... Nowhere does in the rules state that there is any
sort
> of timing frame.
> IMHO played = When a card is declared. Everything on the card resolves at
> once with no time frame for opponent to respond do anything. No turning
for
> special effect, no discarding for special effect or whatever.
> Therefore when you deploy LotI you'll have to roll for it before he can
> respond.
> This is the only counter effect card in the game. It's bound to stir up a
> discussion. Next person's opinion??

I think that when a card is played all effects on the card are simutaneous.

So if someone plays LOTI then they have to roll as part of playing the
card.
As for logic if someone tries to get a stroke of good luck to go their way
why should I try to stop it if he doesn't get that stroke of luck...in
other words if his roll fails...In game terms my guys wouldn't know he was
trying to get some good luck (since he never got it) and wouldn't try to
summon some luck of their own to counter the good fortune that had fallen
on my opponent.

-Longshot
Message no. 10
From: Norman McLeod <mcleodn@***********.NET>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:30:53 -0400
Remember people, "just been played" not "just entered play".
Message no. 11
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Timing.
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:35:46 -0500
At 06:30 PM 4/21/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Remember people, "just been played" not "just entered play".

Another way to look at it: Play the card and ask yourself - Which card was
just played? Go ahead and roll the dice and then ask again. Same answer?

Hg

Warning: This message contains my opinions.
I've been wrong before....
....I'll be wrong again.

Further Reading

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