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Message no. 1
From: "J.P Haworth" <jhaworth@*******.COM>
Subject: Wanted
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:43:54 -0500
I was just wondering, is it possible to put more than 1 wanted on a
runner in order to gang up on him. For example placing 2 Wanted's on
Cherry Bomb (because she's a pain in the *** to me) And then on my
opponents turn send Tiny and Caesar to pummel her for destroying Fuchi.
Thanx
Redman
Message no. 2
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:50:08 -0800
J.P Haworth wrote:

> I was just wondering, is it possible to put more than 1 wanted on a
> runner in order to gang up on him. For example placing 2 Wanted's on
> Cherry Bomb (because she's a pain in the *** to me) And then on my
> opponents turn send Tiny and Caesar to pummel her for destroying Fuchi.

While you could put more than one Wanted on a Runner, you'd only be able
to engage in one-on-one combat - even if you flub the first combat
(would a GAQS work?) and that Wanted falls off, the second will still be
active for the other Runner to attack through.

-Mb
Message no. 3
From: Benjamin <benjamin@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 21:27:26 PST
>I was just wondering, is it possible to put more than 1 wanted on a
>runner in order to gang up on him. For example placing 2 Wanted's on
>Cherry Bomb (because she's a pain in the *** to me) And then on my
>opponents turn send Tiny and Caesar to pummel her for destroying Fuchi.
>Thanx
>Redman

My guess would be no, but that would make a good card for the
Underworld expansion:

Hit Squad
Special
Cost:4 =Y=
Text:Tap up to three runners to engage them in combat against any one
runner of your choice.

Or something like that.
Message no. 4
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:31:34 -0800
Benjamin wrote:

(snip)

> My guess would be no, but that would make a good card for the
> Underworld expansion:
>
> Hit Squad
> Special
> Cost:4 =Y=
> Text:Tap up to three runners to engage them in combat against any one
> runner of your choice.

Well, it definitely won't say "tap", that's for sure! :)

Three against one? OK, it's much more expensive than Bar Fight, but
Three for one is certain doom for nearly everyone.

OTOH, I could see involving two Runners with a special trait, along
lines of a card from Forrest's "Rising Sun" net.expansion...

> Or something like that.

-Mb
Message no. 5
From: Nemein <nemein@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 04:02:50 -0800
---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
[snip]
>
> OTOH, I could see involving two Runners with a special trait, along
> lines of a card from Forrest's "Rising Sun" net.expansion...
>

uh? Oh yeah... :-) Things have been kind of busy recently forcing me
into "luker" mode. I'll try to get this page up sometime this weekend.

Later!
==
Forrest My opinions... Your delete key...
aka Nemein Best when both are used freely :-)

Shadowrun: www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3056/srccg.html
Last updates - SRCard List ideas: 13 Oct '97
My ideas: 23 Oct '97 (Now over 50!)
Doomtrooper: www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3056/dtccg.html
_____________________________________________________________________
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Message no. 6
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Wanted!
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:59:14 -0800
Lodewijk Roskott wrote:
>If someone makes my 3/3 runner "Wanted" and it's my
>legwork phase and my opponent turns his 4/4 runner
>to kill my 3/3 runner,can i play a gear on my 3/3
>runner that gives him +1/+2 so it becomes 4/5 and
>will survive the figth and kill my opponents 4/4 runner?
>
>lood
>
This is something I don't understand. My group has always played that the
opponent attacks the Wanted! character during his own legwork phase, but
the SRTCG Q&A has this ruling:

Wanted!:
Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent?
A1: The WANTED! character's player's Legwork Phase.

If you play Wanted! the way my group has been playing it, you avoid
problems like Lood brings up. Can anyone please tell me why it should be
different?

David Reis
Message no. 7
From: Joseph Nuth III <u1jan@******.GSFC.NASA.GOV>
Subject: Re: Wanted!
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:39:02 -0500
David Reis wrote:
>>
>This is something I don't understand. My group has always played that the
>opponent attacks the Wanted! character during his own legwork phase, but
>the SRTCG Q&A has this ruling:
>
>Wanted!:
>Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
>player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent?
>A1: The WANTED! character's player's Legwork Phase.
>
>If you play Wanted! the way my group has been playing it, you avoid
>problems like Lood brings up. Can anyone please tell me why it should be
>different?
>
A possible reason for the ruling is so that an opponent has a chance to
react to the card in a way that the person playing the Wanted can not easily
predict. If you play the Wanted in your legwork phase, there is absolutely
no uncertainty in most cases - its an automatic kill. When played in an
opponent's legwork phase, the opponent might play an Ally Spirit, Doc Wagon
Armor or weapon that reverses the outcome. The game thus becomes much more
interesting and much less mechanical. More like the real world where miracles
do occasionally save an individual's bacon....

Joe Nuth
Message no. 8
From: Lodewijk Roskott <l.roskott@***.NL>
Subject: Re: Wanted!
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:28:54 +0100
Joseph Nuth III wrote:
>
> David Reis wrote:
> >>
> >This is something I don't understand. My group has always played that the
> >opponent attacks the Wanted! character during his own legwork phase, but
> >the SRTCG Q&A has this ruling:
> >
> >Wanted!:
> >Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
> >player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent?
> >A1: The WANTED! character's player's Legwork Phase.
> >
> >If you play Wanted! the way my group has been playing it, you avoid
> >problems like Lood brings up. Can anyone please tell me why it should be
> >different?
> >
> A possible reason for the ruling is so that an opponent has a chance to
> react to the card in a way that the person playing the Wanted can not easily
> predict. If you play the Wanted in your legwork phase, there is absolutely
> no uncertainty in most cases - its an automatic kill. When played in an
> opponent's legwork phase, the opponent might play an Ally Spirit, Doc Wagon
> Armor or weapon that reverses the outcome. The game thus becomes much more
> interesting and much less mechanical. More like the real world where miracles
> do occasionally save an individual's bacon....
>
> Joe Nuth
So i can play an armor on my runner with wanted on it when my opponent
turns 1 of his runners to attack mine?
Message no. 9
From: Jeffrey Nuremburg <xanatos@********.NET>
Subject: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 01:52:15 -0500
Hey all.

I noted the conversation regarding Wanted! and I had some things to
say. First off, the card text:

Special

Play on taget Runner. During THEIR Legwork phase, opponents may
turn one Runner to attack target Runner. Trash Wanted after
resolving combat. Runner who defeats Wanted Runner earns Reputation
equal to deployment cost of Wanted Runner.

Now, the issue seemed to concern when a player could turn his
"Runner" (the Attacking Runner) to attack the "Wanted Runner" (the
Runner
who was the target of the card). I do not understand what the confusion is,
but it was stated in an earlier message that the SRTCG FAQ official ruling
was this:

Wanted!:
Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent?
A1: The WANTED! character's player's Legwork Phase.

I do not know if this is from the official FAQ (I definately hope
that it wasn't), but even if it is, this ruling CLEARLY contradicts the text
of the card. The card states that during "their" Legword phase, opponents
may turn one runner to attack target Runner. In this case the phrase "their"
clearly indicates a reference to the subject of the sentence, "opponents".
Thus, the card states that the "Attacking Runner" is turned during the
Legwork phase of the owner of the "Attacking Runner" (i.e. - the opponent(s)
of the owner of the Runner targeted by Wanted!).

1) If this card meant for "Attacking Runners" to be turned during the
Legwork phase of the owner of the "Runner" who was the target of the Wanted,
it would state something akin to:

During the Legwork phase of target Runner, opponents may turn one
Runner to attack target Runner.

2) If opponents have to turn their Runners to attack during the Legwork
phase of the target "Runners" owner, annoying timing conflicts are brought
to bear.

Player A has a Runner targeted by a Wanted (which is played by
player B). Player C and D take their turn. It is now Player A's turn
again. Player A, being intelligent waits and bides his time. Player B, C
and D all turn Runners declaring that they are attacking the Wanted! Runner.
Of course, according to the Rules, the player whose turn it is goes first,
so he says, AHAH, I will now intelligently play a certain sequence of cards
that guarantees my victory (Perhaps a double riots, followed by a biotech,
followed by the placement of a Heavy Armor Full on the Wanted Runner). Now
the owner of the Wanted Runner is done, and he waits while the next three
players roll dice to determine who actually got to attack him. This means
of course that Player B might not even get to use the Wanted that he played.

3) I have played in a large number of games where Wanted! has been used. It
often is an automatic kill (although a card like Switchblade from Underworld
modifies that fact). It is not invincible however (I have gotten the
opportunity to Riot away the killer Runner on my turn and/or use a well
timed Drive By Shooting).

Anyway, that's my outlook on the card. My group has always played
Wanted! as it states on the card (I have always found the text to be very
clear). If anyone knows which specific FAQ the segment above came from,
please let me know.


LOKI: If you would, please address this issue with Mike and Jim. If they
did make the ruling above, perhaps they will reconsider. :)

Thanks.


--
Jeffrey Nuremburg / System Administrator
xanatos@********.net
cgiguy@********.net - All CGI related requests

"I've been an atheist - I had found it difficult to
have religious beliefs and scientific ones, but I've
accepted that I have a duality - there's a human
way of interacting with people but also a mechanistic
explanation of what people are and how they work."

- Rodney Brooks, Director of MIT's AI Lab
Message no. 10
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 06:01:39 -0800
Jeffrey Nuremburg wrote:
>
> Hey all.
>
> I noted the conversation regarding Wanted! and I had some things to
> say. First off, the card text:

Here's a slightly cleaned up version (man, was the formatting on your
post weird).

WANTED! / Special / 1Y
Play on target Runner. During their Legwork phase, opponents may turn
one Runner to attack target Runner. Trash Wanted after resolving combat.
Runner who defeats Wanted Runner earns Reputation equal to deployment
cost of Wanted Runner.

(snip)

> I do not know if this is from the official FAQ (I definately hope
> that it wasn't), but even if it is, this ruling CLEARLY contradicts the text
> of the card. The card states that during "their" Legword phase, opponents
> may turn one runner to attack target Runner. In this case the phrase
"their"
> clearly indicates a reference to the subject of the sentence, "opponents".
> Thus, the card states that the "Attacking Runner" is turned during the
> Legwork phase of the owner of the "Attacking Runner" (i.e. - the
opponent(s)
> of the owner of the Runner targeted by Wanted!).

One way to look at it: Preface the card text with a generic ruling
about Specials: Owner must play Wanted! during his turn ... During their
Legwork phase, blah.

This sets up the opposing sides -- "his" means the opponent
(attacker-to-be); "they/their" means the defending player, the one who
controls the targetted Runner.

> 1) If this card meant for "Attacking Runners" to be turned during the
> Legwork phase of the owner of the "Runner" who was the target of the
Wanted,
> it would state something akin to:

> During the Legwork phase of target Runner, opponents may turn one
> Runner to attack target Runner.

Well... even this could be improved on. The defending Runner never gets
a Legwork phase, only his owner does. :) However, I agree with you
that the wording could be clearer.

> 2) If opponents have to turn their Runners to attack during the Legwork
> phase of the target "Runners" owner, annoying timing conflicts are brought
> to bear.

> Player A has a Runner targeted by a Wanted (which is played by
> player B). Player C and D take their turn. It is now Player A's turn
> again. Player A, being intelligent waits and bides his time. Player B, C
> and D all turn Runners declaring that they are attacking the Wanted! Runner.
> Of course, according to the Rules, the player whose turn it is goes first,
> so he says, AHAH, I will now intelligently play a certain sequence of cards
> that guarantees my victory (Perhaps a double riots, followed by a biotech,
> followed by the placement of a Heavy Armor Full on the Wanted Runner). Now
> the owner of the Wanted Runner is done, and he waits while the next three
> players roll dice to determine who actually got to attack him. This means
> of course that Player B might not even get to use the Wanted that he played.

Sorry, but no. Player A gets to do *some*thing -- place a Heavy Armor
(Full) on the Runner, sure -- but not *many* things. As soon as the
Armor's been deployed, the remaining players can take their own
action(s).

> 3) I have played in a large number of games where Wanted! has been used. It
> often is an automatic kill (although a card like Switchblade from Underworld
> modifies that fact). It is not invincible however (I have gotten the
> opportunity to Riot away the killer Runner on my turn and/or use a well
> timed Drive By Shooting).

Well - it's only an automatic kill because you get to select the Runner
you attack. Iron Mike (7Y - 4/6) and Oddyseus (7Y - 7/7) aren't much of
a match-up. But Switchblades, Palm Pistols, Drug tokens, and Palm
Pistols all help -- State of Confusion, which would let you place the
Wanted on your *opponent's* Runners after he tries to pop you, works
even better.


- Matt

------------------------------------
Beware the man who casts two shadows.

GridSec: SRCard / Wolf in Shepherd's Clothing
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 11
From: Gumbyflex1 <Gumbyflex1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 10:53:53 EST
In a message dated 98-03-25 01:39:38 EST, you write:

<< Special

Play on taget Runner. During THEIR Legwork phase, opponents may
turn one Runner to attack target Runner. Trash Wanted after
resolving combat. Runner who defeats Wanted Runner earns Reputation
equal to deployment cost of Wanted Runner.

Now, the issue seemed to concern when a player could turn his
"Runner" (the Attacking Runner) to attack the "Wanted Runner" (the
Runner
who was the target of the card). I do not understand what the confusion is,
but it was stated in an earlier message that the SRTCG FAQ official ruling
was this:

Wanted!:
Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent?
A1: The WANTED! character's player's Legwork Phase.

I do not know if this is from the official FAQ (I definately hope
that it wasn't), but even if it is, this ruling CLEARLY contradicts the text
of the card. The card states that during "their" Legword phase, opponents
may turn one runner to attack target Runner. In this case the phrase "their"
clearly indicates a reference to the subject of the sentence, "opponents".
Thus, the card states that the "Attacking Runner" is turned during the
Legwork phase of the owner of the "Attacking Runner" (i.e. - the opponent(s)
of the owner of the Runner targeted by Wanted!).

1) If this card meant for "Attacking Runners" to be turned during the
Legwork phase of the owner of the "Runner" who was the target of the Wanted,
it would state something akin to:

During the Legwork phase of target Runner, opponents may turn one
Runner to attack target Runner.
>>
this seems to be a big discussion over a point where common sence should take
precidence. i completely agree with you Jeff, it that was the official faq
then it should be changed. think of it like this...you are playing a game
with 3 other people, i play a wanted on the player whom just went runner.
what seems logical is that i can try to cash in on the reward myself then. if
i cant, the next player should be able to gine it a shot, etc... now if the
card was played that you had to attack the runner on the wanted runner's
legwork phase, there can be a big arguement about who gets to try and off the
runner first. me because i played the wanted or you because...you are wearing
red? it just seems easied and less complicated this way.

-J
Message no. 12
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 09:19:07 -0800
---Jeffrey Nuremburg <xanatos@********.NET> wrote:
>
> Hey all.
>
> I noted the conversation regarding Wanted! and I had some
things to
> say. First off, the card text:
>

<snip some valid points>
>
> Anyway, that's my outlook on the card. My group has always
played
> Wanted! as it states on the card (I have always found the text to be
very
> clear). If anyone knows which specific FAQ the segment above came
from,
> please let me know.
>
What you quoted comes from the SRCard Q&A, I don't believe the entry
is in the FASA FAQ. However, their update has not yet been posted.
>
> LOKI: If you would, please address this issue with Mike and Jim.
If they
> did make the ruling above, perhaps they will reconsider. :)
>
It's been forwarded, I'll let you know as soon as I have something back.

> Thanks.
>
Not a problem.

-== Loki ==-
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
SRCard FAQ: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr/srstuff/tcgfaq1.htm
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
Poisoned Elves: www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
SRTCG trade lists last updated 3/24/98
>
>

_________________________________________________________
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Message no. 13
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 22:54:39 +0100
Matb wrote:
> > Player A has a Runner targeted by a Wanted (which is played by
> > player B). Player C and D take their turn. It is now Player A's turn
> > again. Player A, being intelligent waits and bides his time. Player B, C
> > and D all turn Runners declaring that they are attacking the Wanted! Runner.
> > Of course, according to the Rules, the player whose turn it is goes first,
> > so he says, AHAH, I will now intelligently play a certain sequence of cards
> > that guarantees my victory (Perhaps a double riots, followed by a biotech,
> > followed by the placement of a Heavy Armor Full on the Wanted Runner). Now
> > the owner of the Wanted Runner is done, and he waits while the next three
> > players roll dice to determine who actually got to attack him. This means
> > of course that Player B might not even get to use the Wanted that he played.
>
> Sorry, but no. Player A gets to do *some*thing -- place a Heavy Armor
> (Full) on the Runner, sure -- but not *many* things. As soon as the
> Armor's been deployed, the remaining players can take their own
> action(s).
In this example, why would players B-D have to wait to attack player A´s
Runner? The card states clearly that you turn a Runner to attack.
Nothing about the target Runner´s owner´s Legwork phase. You turn, you
attack, he plays Stinger on you if he can, he dies. If you wait until
it´s his turn, you can´t attack, and he can play Gear. ---Felix
Message no. 14
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted!!!
Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 20:31:47 -0800
Felix Hoefert wrote:

(Wanted schtuff snipped)

> > Sorry, but no. Player A gets to do *some*thing -- place a Heavy Armo=
r
> > (Full) on the Runner, sure -- but not *many* things. As soon as the
> > Armor's been deployed, the remaining players can take their own
> > action(s).

> In this example, why would players B-D have to wait to attack player A´=
s
> Runner? The card states clearly that you turn a Runner to attack.
> Nothing about the target Runner´s owner´s Legwork phase. You turn, =
you
> attack, he plays Stinger on you if he can, he dies. If you wait until
> it´s his turn, you can´t attack, and he can play Gear. ---Felix

It's the way the card takes effect. "...Attack target Runner on their
[i.e., TR's owner's] Legwork phase..." That, at least, has been the MO
of the card so far (and the fewer rules reversals in the game, the
better).

If the card were able to be used on the same turn it was deployed, the
only time to defend against is wiould be between the card being played
and the Runner attacking (meaning, you've got to have a Stinger or
stinger-like effect ready - and a smart player will wait until that's
not likely to happen before playing it).

When you wait until the owner of the Runner's turn, you give him a
slightly better chance (could draw a card to use, it means the owner of
Wanted has to leave at least one Runner unturned). The issue about
which opponent would get to attack first isn't even an issue, as it's
handled in the RBT: Roll D6.

So it's funny to hear players complain about the card being humongously
overpowered, and still be adamant that they could deploy it and attack
in the same turn -- when deploying and attacking in the same turn is the
only way the card could approach being broken.

(Pardon if I seem to be lumping more than a few members on the list into
the generic "them".)


-Matt

------------------------------------
Beware the man who casts two shadows.

GridSec: SRCard / Wolf in Shepherd's Clothing
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 15
From: Michael Niederkofler <hibou@****.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT>
Subject: Wanted !
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:47:04 +0200
Hi All,

I don´t know if I´m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it can
destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
done. The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
"Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
them.
If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
counter "Wanted".

It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies. Imagine a
deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
"Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
there is not much what can stop them. And while you wait four the money
to deploy the trolls you play "Wanted" or "Riots" to eliminate the
key-runners of your opponent, who is then not fast enough to beat you.

Is there nothing, that can stop such a deck?

Your comments are welcome,

Greetings,
Michael

--
************************
Michael Niederkofler
hibou@****.tu-graz.ac.at
************************

Conway´s Gesetz: In jeder Organisation gibt es immer nur eine Person,
die weiß was los ist. Diese Person muß entlassen werden.
Message no. 16
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 13:09:38 -0700
At 07:47 PM 4/19/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>I don´t know if I´m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
>annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it can
>destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
>done. The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
>the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
>"Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
>Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
>them.
>If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
>counter "Wanted".
>
>It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
>opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies. Imagine a
>deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
>"Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
>there is not much what can stop them. And while you wait four the money
>to deploy the trolls you play "Wanted" or "Riots" to eliminate the
>key-runners of your opponent, who is then not fast enough to beat you.
>
>Is there nothing, that can stop such a deck?
>
>Your comments are welcome,
>
>Greetings,
>Michael
>
Green Apple Quicksteps is a cheap, effective way to avoid losing runners to
Wanted.

David
Message no. 17
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 23:43:20 +0200
> Green Apple Quicksteps is a cheap, effective way to avoid losing runners to
> Wanted.
>
> David

Since the attack hasn´t occurred, Wanted stays on the Runner, and he may
attack again next turn. So your GAQ is wasted unless you can use the
Wanted Runner effectively this turn. You can just rely on having more
quick and effective Runners in your deck than your opponent can kill,
i.e. more than 4. ---Felix
Message no. 18
From: Jon Palmer <jmp225@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 18:39:36 -0400
>> Green Apple Quicksteps is a cheap, effective way to avoid losing runners =
to
>> Wanted.
>>
>> David
>
>Since the attack hasn´t occurred, Wanted stays on the Runner, and he may
>attack again next turn. So your GAQ is wasted unless you can use the
>Wanted Runner effectively this turn. You can just rely on having more
>quick and effective Runners in your deck than your opponent can kill,
>i.e. more than 4.

Another fun thing to do is whack your enemy with a Bad Rep or three :-)
That's usually worth the loss of one runner.

Jon Palmer
Message no. 19
From: Apone <mpcheval@********.FR>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 06:23:32 +0200
Michael Niederkofler wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> I don´t know if I´m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
> annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it can
> destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
> done.

I would say Troll Decks are the most annoying decks of the game.

> The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
> the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
> "Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
> Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
> them.

Pack some Bad Rep. That will make the assaillant think twice, especially ifyou are playing
games
under 100 Rep Points for victory.
And I've heard that on the Revised Rules it will become possible to Bad Rep a player with
negative
Rep points.

> It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
> opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies. Imagine a
> deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
> "Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
> there is not much what can stop them.

This is only speaking from my limited experience (lack of players around here) so I might
miss something, but here's what I've learned:
- Troll Decks are slow. Play quick games (around 100 Rep Points max).
- Troll Decks are really expansive. Target your opponet's cash cows (Riots, Wanted, In
Fighting...)
instead of his tough guys. That can
slow him down even more.
- Pack Challenges that need uncommon skills to be sleaze (technical, social,...), and that
Trolls
usually don't have.
- Better pack Challenges that make the shadowrunning team returning to the safehouse
(Nets, Hellish
trafic, Maglocks)
instead of trying to fight a ferocious wild bunch of trolls. (I saw one taking the
Amozonian Hunt
after kicking the ass of a Guardian Dracophorm,
a Double Jeopardize and a Toxic Spirit, making a 60 points rep on one turn. Ouch !).

It's a pity that to counter a Troll Deck you need to specially prepare your own deck for
it (except
if you play a 50 Rep Points game) but
what else can be done to face an Anti Social beast which is 2,80 meters tall and weighs
over 200 Kg ?

A word of clarification: this post is not directed against trolls. They are pretty cool in
the SR
universe.
IMHO I just find that they can be imbalancing for the SRTTCG mechanisms.

so long,

Apone.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You may bury my body down by the highway side,
So my old evil spirit can catch a Greyhound bus n'ride."
Robert Johnson
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 20
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 05:23:46 -0700
Michael Niederkofler wrote:

> If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
> counter "Wanted".

Here's a few.

GAQS returns the Runner to the safehouse (Attacker, Defender - does it
matter?).

Bad Reputation hammers him for attacking. OK, you lose the Runner.

Big Guns, or pumpable Runners, have close to the same effect. Burst
Fire Weapons are great this way, although they can't be depended on;
Blazing Guns works well when you're using Pistols. Combine this with
Bad Lunch and suddenly you've turned the tables! Acid Mist also works
when the Gear is worse than the Runner (or when your opponent loves the
Z-zone). Drones and Spirits rock, too.

Having your own Big Tough Guys is always an option (just a question of
which one's bigger).

LotI, Lucky Wabbit's Feet, and Protective Spirit, as you mentioned, all
work, though they're unreliable/expensive/designed for a particular
deck.

Since getting into combat requires the attacker to turn, any measure
which turns the attacker would seem to work (McDeven, Crawler Drone).
Similarly, Rush Job forces your opponent to do something else with his
Runners -- followed up by a Change of Plans and a well-placed Widow's
Trap.... :)

Having LOTS of Runners works, too. Genetics Lab can be good for this.
(To comment on the Big Tough Guys being unstoppable: They are. In the
*late* game. Early on, there's simply to many low-cost Runners for them
to be that effective. It's only when you can stomp your opponent's
numober one guy and *still* be able to send four or five guys on a
shadowrun that you really have control over the board.)

Counter-attack. Not necessarily with Bar Fights of your own: Cement
Shoes, Handcuffs, Poison all have their (dirty) uses.

Or, of course, just be swifter. Win first, and who cares how many of
your Runners he trashed?


- Matt

------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....

SRCard list.member.newbie
Teen Poets FAQ: http://pw1.netcom.com/~mbreton/poetry/poetfaq.htm
SRTCG Website: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/2189/ccgtop.htm
Message no. 21
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:19:38 -0500
At 07:47 PM 4/19/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>Is there nothing, that can stop such a <troll> deck?
>
>Your comments are welcome,

Team any of the following with the Bad Rep.
Infighting is a common and really sucks with a safehouse full of trolls.
Use it after he plays a Wanted! and you might get one of his trolls too. Do
this a couple times and he might start thinking about whether it's worth it
to play the Wanted!.
911 is a zero cost common.
The shuriken are just about my favorite deterent (along side bounty
hunter). You will constantly see your opponent trying to figure out how
much body they will have left after the upcoming Wanted!/Challenge/Riot/or
what have you. Get a couple in play and your opponent suddenly is afraid to
let his favorite runners fall below 5 body. And they're cheap.
Tactics: Scatter is actually a handy card. You effectively cut the damage
he does in half and throw the other half back at him. As a bonus, the
Wanted goes away because combat has been resolved.
The Jade/Loki combo can be ugly, but it costs a bit and is fragile.

Just some ideas, I know there are probably more. Hope they help.

Hg

Warning: This message contains my opinions.
I've been wrong before....
....I'll be wrong again.
Message no. 22
From: Pedro Gomes <Pedro.Gomes@**.SIEMENS.PT>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:34:02 +0100
Quicksilver wrote:
> At 07:47 PM 4/19/98 +0200, you wrote:
> >Hi All,
> >Is there nothing, that can stop such a <troll> deck?
> >
> >Your comments are welcome,
>
<snip some ideas>
> Just some ideas, I know there are probably more. Hope they help.

Of course there you can always play with a deck of gangers and use Halloweeners,
now if he plays wanted on you and you damage his runner on a D6 of 4+ his runner
is FRAGGED, not trashed, not hurt, but fragged. Something to make him think.

Another good card is 911, the runner goes to jail...it so happens that you had a
Lone Star Lock-up in play...with Lone Star surveilance on it, now not only must
he play 3Y ro get his runner back but there is also a chance the runner who is
going to try and release the arrested runner ends up in the lock up....not nice
for him :) (throw in a few loaded dice and the odds are on your side)

There are lots of combos to stop the trolls, especcially with underworld.

Pedro Gomes

--
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you can rejoice.
Message no. 23
From: Quicksilver <qwksilvr@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:41:05 -0500
At 02:34 PM 4/20/98 +0100, you wrote:
>Quicksilver wrote:
>> At 07:47 PM 4/19/98 +0200, you wrote:
>Of course there you can always play with a deck of gangers and use
Halloweeners,
>now if he plays wanted on you and you damage his runner on a D6 of 4+ his
runner
>is FRAGGED, not trashed, not hurt, but fragged. Something to make him think.

You may want to look at Halloweeners again. The runner in question must be
*defeated*, not just damaged.

Hg

Warning: This message contains my opinions.
I've been wrong before....
....I'll be wrong again.
Message no. 24
From: Pedro Gomes <Pedro.Gomes@**.SIEMENS.PT>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 16:42:46 +0100
Quicksilver wrote:
> >Of course there you can always play with a deck of gangers and use
> Halloweeners,
> >now if he plays wanted on you and you damage his runner on a D6 of 4+ his
> runner
> >is FRAGGED, not trashed, not hurt, but fragged. Something to make him think.
>
> You may want to look at Halloweeners again. The runner in question must be
> *defeated*, not just damaged.

You're right, sorry, I skiped that line...that's what happens when you read on
the diagonal because you must send the mail before you boss looks over your
shoulder to see what you are doing :)

Pedro Gomes

--
When you were born you cried and the world rejoiced.
Live your life so that when you die the world cries and you can rejoice.
Message no. 25
From: Jon Palmer <jmp225@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:04:56 -0400
>Michael Niederkofler wrote:
>
>> If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
>> counter "Wanted".

Another fun one... State of Confusion. "No, sorry, your Torgo made a
mistake and attacked flame-boy Marek... and yes, I have enough ¥ to assure
they BOTH die..." Or, alternatively, "Torgo wanted to take out that Ravage
with all the gear, but instead, he seems to have tracked down Thrash. What
a pity."

Jon Palmer
Message no. 26
From: Felix Hoefert <FHoefert@********.DE>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 22:48:41 +0200
Jon Palmer wrote:
>
> >Michael Niederkofler wrote:
> >
> >> If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
> >> counter "Wanted".
>
> Another fun one... State of Confusion. "No, sorry, your Torgo made a
> mistake and attacked flame-boy Marek... and yes, I have enough ¥ to assure
> they BOTH die..." Or, alternatively, "Torgo wanted to take out that Ravage
> with all the gear, but instead, he seems to have tracked down Thrash. What
> a pity."

Just to clarify: SoC only redirects the Wanted, it doesn´t make the
attacker go for someone else. He can still decide wether to attack or
not. ---Felix
Message no. 27
From: STRMTRPR81 <STRMTRPR81@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 17:33:13 EDT
here is the best thing for getting rid of wanted
IT IS ALL ABOUT STATE OF CONFUSION
YOU REDIRECT IT TO THERE RUNNERS AND THEN BEAT THEM UP
IF THERE RUNNERS ARE BIGGER THAN YOURS THEN JUST KEEP IT ON THEN
THEY CAN NOT HURT YOU
Message no. 28
From: Michael Niederkofler <hibou@****.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:44:13 +0200
Matb wrote:

> <snip some very good ideas>
>
> Since getting into combat requires the attacker to turn, any measure
> which turns the attacker would seem to work (McDeven, Crawler Drone).
> Similarly, Rush Job forces your opponent to do something else with his
>
> Runners -- followed up by a Change of Plans and a well-placed Widow's
> Trap.... :)
>

This could work. I will give it try.

> Having LOTS of Runners works, too. Genetics Lab can be good for this.
>
> (To comment on the Big Tough Guys being unstoppable: They are. In the
>
> *late* game. Early on, there's simply to many low-cost Runners for
> them
> to be that effective. It's only when you can stomp your opponent's
> numober one guy and *still* be able to send four or five guys on a
> shadowrun that you really have control over the board.)
>

The problem I often have here is, that there are challenges I can not
sleaze or fight (like Highway Showdown or Guardian Dracoform) early in
the game, so my opponent has time enough to set up the big guys. If
anyone has ideas for a really fast deck, that can handle some of the
nastier challenges, they are highly welcome.

> Counter-attack. Not necessarily with Bar Fights of your own: Cement
> Shoes, Handcuffs, Poison all have their (dirty) uses.
>
> Or, of course, just be swifter. Win first, and who cares how many of
> your Runners he trashed?
>

.

> - Matt
>

I hope, I will be swift enough once.

Greetings,
Michael

--
************************
Michael Niederkofler
hibou@****.tu-graz.ac.at
************************

Conway´s Gesetz: In jeder Organisation gibt es immer nur eine Person,
die weiß was los ist. Diese Person muß entlassen werden.
Message no. 29
From: Michael Niederkofler <hibou@****.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 23:36:32 +0200
Apone wrote:

> Michael Niederkofler wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I don´t know if I´m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
> > annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it
> can
> > destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
> > done.
>
> I would say Troll Decks are the most annoying decks of the game.

You´re definitly right.

>
>
> > The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
> > the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
> > "Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
> > Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
>
> > them.
>
> Pack some Bad Rep. That will make the assaillant think twice,
> especially ifyou are playing games
> under 100 Rep Points for victory.
> And I've heard that on the Revised Rules it will become possible to
> Bad Rep a player with negative
> Rep points.
>

We have already a house rule, that allows this. But sometimes is the
loss of 10 pts rep not that annoying, if you consider, that you will get
rep for the runner you killed with wanted. That would be 6 points for
Hatchetman, who is not that hard to kill, but is a hard loss in a sleaze
deck with his four skills.

> > It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
> > opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies.
> Imagine a
> > deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going
> for
> > "Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
>
> > there is not much what can stop them.
>
> This is only speaking from my limited experience (lack of players
> around here) so I might
> miss something, but here's what I've learned:
> - Troll Decks are slow. Play quick games (around 100 Rep Points max).
> - Troll Decks are really expansive. Target your opponet's cash cows
> (Riots, Wanted, In Fighting...)
> instead of his tough guys. That can
> slow him down even more.
> - Pack Challenges that need uncommon skills to be sleaze (technical,
> social,...), and that Trolls
> usually don't have.

Thats another thing what annoys me. "Cleanse the Hive", "Cermak
Blast",
"Urban Browl" don´t care what challenges you play. These objectifs just
turn your challenges into a fight. So if your opponent plays with
"Cleanse the Hive", he has not to worry about you taking this objectif
fast (the last fight is way too tough for weenies), and he can
concentrate playing the harder challenges on your own objectif, so that
you will not be fast enough (there is no way around "Highway Showdown
with Tinkerbell and Hawkwind).

> - Better pack Challenges that make the shadowrunning team returning to
> the safehouse (Nets, Hellish
> trafic, Maglocks)
> instead of trying to fight a ferocious wild bunch of trolls. (I saw
> one taking the Amozonian Hunt
> after kicking the ass of a Guardian Dracophorm,
> a Double Jeopardize and a Toxic Spirit, making a 60 points rep on one
> turn. Ouch !).
>
> It's a pity that to counter a Troll Deck you need to specially prepare
> your own deck for it (except
> if you play a 50 Rep Points game) but
> what else can be done to face an Anti Social beast which is 2,80
> meters tall and weighs
> over 200 Kg ?
>
> A word of clarification: this post is not directed against trolls.
> They are pretty cool in the SR
> universe.
> IMHO I just find that they can be imbalancing for the SRTTCG
> mechanisms.
>

Thats the way I see it too. They don´t have many drawbacks.

> so long,
>
> Apone.
>

Greetings,Michael

> --
> --
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> "You may bury my body down by the highway side,
> So my old evil spirit can catch a Greyhound bus n'ride."
> Robert Johnson
> --------------
> ---------------------------------------------------------



--
************************
Michael Niederkofler
hibou@****.tu-graz.ac.at
************************

Conway´s Gesetz: In jeder Organisation gibt es immer nur eine Person,
die weiß was los ist. Diese Person muß entlassen werden.
Message no. 30
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:34:52 -0700
Michael Niederkofler <hibou@****.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT> wrote:
>The problem I often have here is, that there are challenges I can not
>sleaze or fight (like Highway Showdown or Guardian Dracoform) early in
>the game, so my opponent has time enough to set up the big guys. If
>anyone has ideas for a really fast deck, that can handle some of the
>nastier challenges, they are highly welcome.

A couple ideas just off the top of my head--you might try Rampaging Mutant
or Just a Rumor for getting rid of challenges you don't want to face.

David
Message no. 31
From: Jon Palmer <jmp225@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:48:21 -0400
>The problem I often have here is, that there are challenges I can not
>sleaze or fight (like Highway Showdown or Guardian Dracoform) early in
>the game, so my opponent has time enough to set up the big guys. If
>anyone has ideas for a really fast deck, that can handle some of the
>nastier challenges, they are highly welcome.

I know it requires a rare, but these kinds of challenges shouldn't faze you
much when they're... JUST A RUMOR :-)

The other thing I've done to counteract my friends' Guardian Dracoforms in
my sleaze deck is to play with 2 Flatlines and 2 Ranger Arms SM-3s. I
send one runner against the Dracoform, beat it down with the Indirect Fire,
and then with it out of the way, go the next turn.

As for Highway Showdown, you can try using Wetwork or Extraction as your
objectives (HS is an outdoor challenge), Tactics: Converge basically turns
it into a Booby Trap (trash a runner) by directing all the damage to your
unsuspecting Thrash. Biolab Raid from UW also has a "no vehicle
challenges" clause, but it's understandable you might not want your Foxy
Roxys getting -1/-1 tokens :-)

As for the incredibly annoying Blast/Hive/Brawl/Dead decks, Some Things
Never Change can be a nice card to use against them... and is usually
unexpected as well. I want to see a runner in the next expansion who
creates a permanent Some Things Never Change effect while he's in play...
and also costs 5¥ or so and has fame, so he's worth using :-)

Good luck,

Jon Palmer
Message no. 32
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 17:32:39 +0800
>Matb wrote:
>
>> <snip some very good ideas>
>>
>> Since getting into combat requires the attacker to turn, any measure
>> which turns the attacker would seem to work (McDeven, Crawler Drone).
>> Similarly, Rush Job forces your opponent to do something else with his
>>
>> Runners -- followed up by a Change of Plans and a well-placed Widow's
>> Trap.... :)
>>
>
>This could work. I will give it try.
>
>> Having LOTS of Runners works, too. Genetics Lab can be good for this.
>>
>> (To comment on the Big Tough Guys being unstoppable: They are. In the
>>
>> *late* game. Early on, there's simply to many low-cost Runners for
>> them
>> to be that effective. It's only when you can stomp your opponent's
>> numober one guy and *still* be able to send four or five guys on a
>> shadowrun that you really have control over the board.)
>>
>
>The problem I often have here is, that there are challenges I can not
>sleaze or fight (like Highway Showdown or Guardian Dracoform) early in
>the game, so my opponent has time enough to set up the big guys. If
>anyone has ideas for a really fast deck, that can handle some of the
>nastier challenges, they are highly welcome.
>
>> Counter-attack. Not necessarily with Bar Fights of your own: Cement
>> Shoes, Handcuffs, Poison all have their (dirty) uses.
>>
>> Or, of course, just be swifter. Win first, and who cares how many of
>> your Runners he trashed?
>>
>> - Matt
>
>I hope, I will be swift enough once.
>
>Greetings,
>Michael
>
Try humans... and Humanis (fill in the blanks) or anything
anti-metahuman.... Personally I dislike racism but face it humans are uncool
to play with when elves, dwarves,orc and trolls are out there to play with.
Humans have their racist cards....
Metahuman Prejudice, Humanis Policlub Ganger slow a big deck a lot...
Also try to kill the rockers... (riots, drive by, wanted....)

Other cards...
In-Fighting
Unstable Ally
Forced Attrition
Message no. 33
From: "Bourgault, Patrick" <pbourgau@***.CA>
Subject: Wanted !
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 09:24:00 PDT
>Hi All,
>
>I don?t know if I?m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
>annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it can
>destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
>done. The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
>the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
>"Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
>Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
>them.
>If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
>counter "Wanted".
>
>It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
>opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies. Imagine a
>deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
>"Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
>there is not much what can stop them. And while you wait four the money
>to deploy the trolls you play "Wanted" or "Riots" to eliminate the
>key-runners of your opponent, who is then not fast enough to beat you.
>
>Is there nothing, that can stop such a deck?
>
>Your comments are welcome,
>
>Greetings,
>Michael

Yes there is other ways. You could use bodyguards, or you could find
someone else to play with (this kind of deck was not built for fun, but
for winning at all cost. IMHO, the extensive use of special cards makes
the game, well, kinda dull. It's not fun to play, "Who killed the most
runners" and then pick all rep points easily because there's noone to
stop you. We're not playing Magic here, we're playing SRTCG, the game
that says "Who won the most rep points". This doesn't mean you have to
kill everyone.).

Sure, I have a Wanted! card in my deck, but I usually deploy it to kill
that pesky decker of his. This kind of action only brings more problems
for my opponent because he can no longer Recon/Browse the challenges.

Also, keep in mind that every deck has his weaknesses. Find them,
exploit them (ex.: Torgo is the strongest runner without gear their is
and seems to have no weaknesses, but there is at least one: it cost the
Fixer 2 nuyens per turn. Like Gretsky, Torgo doesn't make the team, but
sure help a lot to make the team win.). If the deck your talking about
is made of trolls, then it cost a LOT of money to bring them so, cut his
money with Sticky Fingers, Ice Queen, or just manage to trash the runners
with Fame. A troll deck can pass through anything IF the fixer has
nuyen.
Message no. 34
From: hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:15:06 +0800
>>Hi All,
>>
>>I don?t know if I?m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
>>annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it can
>>destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
>>done. The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
>>the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
>>"Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
>>Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
>>them.
>>If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
>>counter "Wanted".
>>
>>It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
>>opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies. Imagine a
>>deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
>>"Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
>>there is not much what can stop them. And while you wait four the money
>>to deploy the trolls you play "Wanted" or "Riots" to eliminate
the
>>key-runners of your opponent, who is then not fast enough to beat you.
>>
>>Is there nothing, that can stop such a deck?
>>
>>Your comments are welcome,
>>
>>Greetings,
>>Michael
>
>Yes there is other ways. You could use bodyguards, or you could find
>someone else to play with (this kind of deck was not built for fun, but
>for winning at all cost. IMHO, the extensive use of special cards makes
>the game, well, kinda dull. It's not fun to play, "Who killed the most
>runners" and then pick all rep points easily because there's noone to
>stop you. We're not playing Magic here, we're playing SRTCG, the game
>that says "Who won the most rep points". This doesn't mean you have to
>kill everyone.).
>
>Sure, I have a Wanted! card in my deck, but I usually deploy it to kill
>that pesky decker of his. This kind of action only brings more problems
>for my opponent because he can no longer Recon/Browse the challenges.
>
>Also, keep in mind that every deck has his weaknesses. Find them,
>exploit them (ex.: Torgo is the strongest runner without gear their is
>and seems to have no weaknesses, but there is at least one: it cost the
>Fixer 2 nuyens per turn. Like Gretsky, Torgo doesn't make the team, but
>sure help a lot to make the team win.). If the deck your talking about
>is made of trolls, then it cost a LOT of money to bring them so, cut his
>money with Sticky Fingers, Ice Queen, or just manage to trash the runners
>with Fame. A troll deck can pass through anything IF the fixer has
>nuyen.

If you're playing 1 or 2 races humanis policlub ganger(s) is good too...
Message no. 35
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted !
Date: Thu, 23 Apr 1998 11:27:55 -0700
---Michael Niederkofler <hibou@****.TU-GRAZ.AC.AT> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I don´t know if I´m the only one, that considers "Wanted" the most
> annoying card of the set. If played with the right (Troll-) deck it
can
> destroy almost every other deck and there is not much, what cone be
> done. The options you have against it are way too weak, IMHO. "Luck of
> the Irish" fails in 50% of all cases, "Lucky Wabbits Foot" and
> "Protective Spirit" are too expensive so there is only "State of
> Confusion" left which is a rare card, so it is very hard to get 4 of
> them.
> If I overlook something, I would be glad to hear a possibility to
> counter "Wanted".
>
> It seems to me in general that strategies, that try to kill the
> opponents runners are to strong, compared to other strategies.
Imagine a
> deck consisting of trolls with Harley Scorpions and Katanas, going for
> "Cleanse the Hive". Once there are four or five trolls on the table,
> there is not much what can stop them.

- STNC
- CoP
- GAQS
- WGC
- Whoops
- Reinforcements
- NWO

> And while you wait four the money
> to deploy the trolls you play "Wanted" or "Riots" to eliminate
the
> key-runners of your opponent, who is then not fast enough to beat you.
>
> Is there nothing, that can stop such a deck?

First, I play with a couple of Wanteds in UGE Unlimited as there is a
time and place for directed damage and attacks.

An opponent playing with them, including a Big Bully deck isn't that
big of a threat. Keep in mind, at the most they can only have four
Wanteds in a deck and that's taking a couple of slots form other
useful cards.

Ways to deal with Wanted:
- LoTI
- Wabbit's Foot
- Protective Spirit
- Runners that are special resistant (ie - Ghost Who Walks and Dodger)
- SoC back on one of his runners.
- Remember specials can't be recycled, but the Runners they kill can.
- Wanted only lasts through the first attack

There's others as well, but this is OtToMH.

===
-== Loki ==-
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Message no. 36
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Fri, 1 May 1998 19:55:37 -0700
Jon Palmer wrote:

> Maybe it's just that I'd like to see Wanted become a lot less powerful.=
..
> even with all the "incentives" NOT to use it (like Bad Rep, 911, etc.) =
it
> still goes it LOTS of decks. It should probably have a big ¥ cost an=
d not
> provide rep. Oh well.

Another possiblity just struck me: collusion! Have a friend attack your
Wanted Runnerwith a much weaker Runner. Might do a couple points of
damage, but keeps the Runner from being trashed completely. :)


- Matt

------------------------------------
Ask me tonight why love is strange
For I am drunk and full of reasons....

SRCard list.member.newbie
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Message no. 37
From: "(Ryan Smith)" <SnakeIzBac@***.COM>
Subject: Wanted-
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:35:58 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-23 15:54:28 EDT, you write:

<< From Jayden:
Since things that happen in your legwork phase happen at any time and in
no particular order. I can deploy gear... go to a location... deploy
more gear... use a contact... visit another location. There is time
before the wanted fight happens that you can dump gear onto the wanted
runner. Unless (I don't have the card infront of me) the Wanted card
says that the combat happens very first thing durring your legowork
phase. If it doesn't then I would say yes you can gear up the happless
rocker and make him a force to be delt with.
>>

Okay if this is true, Wanted is the most useless card in the game if i can't
get rid of that runner. THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT.... Can I GET A clear
Answer on Wanted? It's driving me Crazy!!
Message no. 38
From: David Reis <david.reis@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted-
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 13:40:29 -0700
At 04:35 PM 7/23/98 EDT, you wrote:
>In a message dated 98-07-23 15:54:28 EDT, you write:
>
><< From Jayden:
> Since things that happen in your legwork phase happen at any time and in
> no particular order. I can deploy gear... go to a location... deploy
> more gear... use a contact... visit another location. There is time
> before the wanted fight happens that you can dump gear onto the wanted
> runner. Unless (I don't have the card infront of me) the Wanted card
> says that the combat happens very first thing durring your legowork
> phase. If it doesn't then I would say yes you can gear up the happless
> rocker and make him a force to be delt with.
> >>
>
>Okay if this is true, Wanted is the most useless card in the game if i can't
>get rid of that runner. THIS DOESN'T SOUND RIGHT.... Can I GET A clear
>Answer on Wanted? It's driving me Crazy!!
>
>
The way to get rid of a runner with Wanted is to play Wanted on the runner
and take up the Wanted right away. If you do not take up the Wanted right
away, you give the runner's player a chance to gear up the runner on his turn.

David
Message no. 39
From: Tony Glinka <porthos@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:22:35 -0700
(Ryan Smith) wrote:

> I have a question about *Wanted*. My friend keeps insisting that he can put
> gear cards on it before i fight the runner so it benefits him. I thought
> Wanted Immeditley activates at the very begininng of the Legwork phase?

Wow, you picked a great subject here. "When does the Wanted fight actually take
place?" There has been a great deal of confusion with the Wanted card stemming
from the card text. The use of "their legwork phase" being the chief culprit.
In
fact the DLOH's have given their opinion on the matter and then they changed it.
:)

The latest ruling, while not official, is about as close to official as you can
get without being official. :) And it sort of eliminates the problem you are
having I think. (I could have misinterpreted your question.)

From the Q&A:
Wanted!:
Q1: Do you attack the Wanted! character during a) the WANTED! character's
player's legwork phase or b) the legwork phase of each opponent (Attacking
player)?
A1: The Attacking player turns his Runner to attack the Wanted! Runner during the
Attacking player's Legwork Phase, not during the Legwork phase of the Wanted!
Runner's owner. Wow! That's a mouthful!

So the idea of your opponent getting to put equipment on his runners before you
attack is now moot. During your legwork phase, you play a Wanted and then you
immediately turn a runner to go get him. Since it is not his turn your opponent
has to hope that his runner can take it as is or else he's out a runner.

I hope this helps.

Tony
--
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Message no. 40
From: Sorrow <sorrow@*******.ORG>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 16:36:03 -0500
>Wow, you picked a great subject here. "When does the Wanted
>fight actually take place?" There has been a great deal of confusion
>with the Wanted card stemming from the card text. The use of
>"their legwork phase" being the chief culprit.

You know, I honestly do not understand where the confusion is
coming from.

Card Text:
"Play on target Runner. During their Legwork phase, opponents
may turn one Runner to attack target Runner. Trash Wanted after
resolving combat. Runner who defeats Wanted Runner earns
Reputation equal to deployment cost of Wanted Runner."

If you *just* look at the portion of the phrase that says "During their
Legwork phase", then yes, I can see how it might be construed
as ambiguous. However, the _entire_ phrase is "During their
legwork phase, opponents may turn one Runner....". The word
after the comma, "opponents", is the qualifier. A really cool trick
you can do (and one of the cool things about English) is switch
the clauses on either side of the comma. If you do that, the
meaning is a bit more clear: "opponents may turn one Runner
to attack target runner During their legwork phase".
Just follow the rules of English - Independant and Dependant
clauses.

Disclaimer: I know there are alot of Non-English Native speakers
on the list, so there are many who may not know about the above.

</english lesson>
:p

Sorrow
---
I don't want to be alone | I hurt, therefore I am
anymore |--------------------------------
I don't want to be anyone | "What are you looking at...?
anymore | you never seen anyone try to
I don't need a reason to kill myself | commit suicide before?" - Anon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 41
From: Tony Glinka <porthos@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 14:48:32 -0700
Sorrow wrote:

> >Wow, you picked a great subject here. "When does the Wanted
> >fight actually take place?" There has been a great deal of confusion
> >with the Wanted card stemming from the card text. The use of
> >"their legwork phase" being the chief culprit.
>
> You know, I honestly do not understand where the confusion is
> coming from.

The biggest part of the confusion was that the DLOH's originally had said
that "their legwork phase" was in reference to the opponent's legwork phase
and not the player's (attacker's) legwork phase. That is when the confusion
began. Since then they changed their minds, and I agree it makes a whole
lot more sense.

Tony
--
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Message no. 42
From: "(Ryan Smith)" <SnakeIzBac@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:14:44 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-23 17:29:35 EDT, you write:

<< The latest ruling, while not official, is about as close to official as you
can
get without being official. :) And it sort of eliminates the problem you
are
having I think. (I could have misinterpreted your question.) >>


Oxy Moron Alert!!! lol
Message no. 43
From: "(Ryan Smith)" <SnakeIzBac@***.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 18:19:40 EDT
In a message dated 98-07-23 17:51:54 EDT, you write:

<< The biggest part of the confusion was that the DLOH's originally had said
that "their legwork phase" was in reference to the opponent's legwork phase
and not the player's (attacker's) legwork phase. That is when the confusion
began. Since then they changed their minds, and I agree it makes a whole
lot more sense.

Tony >>


it Would really HELP me out if i knew what your Acronyms Stood For. WHAT IS
DLOH's?
Message no. 44
From: Tony Glinka <porthos@****.COM>
Subject: Re: Wanted
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 15:24:26 -0700
(Ryan Smith) wrote:

> In a message dated 98-07-23 17:51:54 EDT, you write:
>
> << The biggest part of the confusion was that the DLOH's originally had said
> that "their legwork phase" was in reference to the opponent's legwork
phase
> and not the player's (attacker's) legwork phase. That is when the confusion
> began. Since then they changed their minds, and I agree it makes a whole
> lot more sense.
>
> Tony >>
>
> it Would really HELP me out if i knew what your Acronyms Stood For. WHAT IS
> DLOH's?

Sorry about that. The DLOH's stands for Dark Lord on High, which is this case is
Mike "Skuzzy" Nielsen and Jim Nelson, the actual game designers from FASA.
Basically, it was a term used to describe the Shadowrun Game Developer over on
the ShadowRN list and we sort of carried over from there. It is much easier to
use than "Jim and Skuzzy from FASA" and adds a certain charm. I think there is
a
better description in the FAQ (http://coastnet.com/~dvixen/index.html).


Tony
--
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Further Reading

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Thwap!