From:	Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: GAQS: Jim Nelson's reply to Brett Barksdale's post
Date:	Wed, 17 Sep 1997 09:12:55 -0700

---Michael/Tamara Pease-Lorenz wrote:
>
> Hearing someone whine? He states his opinion <yes a little
vehemently>
> and because it is contrary to the main List admins it is whining?

No one's say you can't disagree with the Admin views, however, the
list Admin are also allowed to express their own personal views as
well. This List exists as a discussion of the SRTCG, and will continue
to exist as long as it remains an open forum.. I've been shown wrong a
few times in my personal rulings and judgement, and even been swayed a
couple of times from my original viewpoint to another's.

I've purposefully tried to stay out of the mainstream GAQS debate and
for the most part just ferried repsonses and rulings to and from FASA.

I still state that I don't see the big timing issues that other list
members have gotten worked up about with GAQS. I've also more than
once seen it's intended and offical use stated by list members and Jim
Nelson of FASA, only to see the debate brought up and hashed out again.

Just once I'd like to see the opponents of GAQS really lay out in
simple B&W why it's a game breaker. Perhaps then I'll be convinced, or
at least have something to take to FASA and say "this is why
so-and-so" feels the card is broken.

So far though, no real examples have been given. Sending a runner home
and leaving the remaining runners to possibly die in combat is not a
game breaker. That is just one of the instances and uses of GAQS. If
you have continually been losing to this play, then you need to
restructure your deck as that single runner plays too important of a
crux in your deck design. That's not the fault of GAQS.

> them. GAQS is a single card that seems to be used differently by
> virtually every player I have met, and most ppl on this list have
their
> own definition for its play. <just re-read the posts>

It's a multi-use Stinger, what's wrong with that?

- Use it to keep a runner from going on a run.
- Use it to send a runner home from a run
--- To fail sleaze and trigger alaram
--- After they have triggered the alarm (Anti-Social or Eyekiller(
--- Ball/Pacakage carrier in Ubran Brawl or Courier Run
--- Possible Required Runner for Harley's Game
- Use it to keep a runner from visiting a location
- Use it to keep a runner from intercepting your run
- Play it before a challenge is revealed, after a challenge is
revealed, before combat, before moving on to Objective Requirements...
- And so on, and so on.

It's a Stinger and thus playable at a myriad of different times.

> While I am not casting stones at Fasa, I would suggest that
in the next
> edition, that they add a single page in the rulebook on the proper
> playing of Stingers, and perhaps retool a few of the cards. Otherwise
> this is a very entertaining game.

Actually they've done just that. A number of cards are slated for a
rewrite of the text in the second printing (Hand Razors and Magloacks
are just two examples.) As for Stiners and Timing, the following comes
from the official FASA FAQ v2.0 to be posted on their webpage sometime
today (and that I've mentioned before I also have a MS Word DOC of):

~~~~~~~~~~

TIMING
As with any game, we ask that you keep the spirit of the game in mind
when playing, and use cards as you think they were intended to be
used. We wanted to keep the timing in the Shadowrun TCG as
straightforward as possible, and so we made the timing and phrasing as
simple as possible. We hope the following guidelines will provide you
with sufficient information to resolve any timing issues in your own
games. If you have a dispute about the timing of cards being played,
we encourage you to roll a D6-dice it off. Let the card of the person
who rolls highest take effect first, and then continue playing-don't
get bogged down arguing. It's just a game!
Most of the timing questions we've received regard the use of Stinger
cards or involve combat situations.
In the Shadowrun TCG, cards take effect in the sequence they are
played. This holds true for most of the cards in the game. For example:
Cannonball (a 5/6 Dwarf Runner with Stamina, Firearms skill and
Gunnery skill) attempts a shadowrun against the Objective Courier Run.
Cannonball is equipped with a single Gear card, the Ceska VZ/120
(Ranged Weapon/Medium Pistol. +2/+0 to user. "Trash Ceska VZ/120 to
add 1o to your credstick."). The opponent turns reveals the first
Challenge Cannonball has to face: it's the Hellhound (Awakened. 6/6.
Sleaze requirement: Stealth 2. "The damage Hellhound inflicts must be
applied to a single Runner. This damage is armor-piercing."). Here's
how the timing works:
Step 1.) the shadowrun is declared.
Step 2.) the Challenge is revealed.
Step 3.) the Runner attempts to sleaze the Challenge (he fails).
Step 4.) the alarm is triggered.
Step 5.) combat ensues and is resolved. All damage is inflicted
instantly and simultaneously.
Cannonball is able to inflict 7 damage (5 + 2 from the Ceska) on the
Hellhound, killing it. The Hellhound inflicts 6 damage and kills
Cannonball. Both cards are trashed.
Since Cannonball's owner knew as soon as he saw the Hellhound
Challenge that Cannonball was going to be defeated by the Hellhound,
he may have wanted to trash the Ceska to receive 1o before Cannonball
died.
He could have trashed the Ceska during steps 2, 3 or 4 (or at any
moment between the time the Challenge was revealed and the time the
alarm was triggered). Once combat ensued, the damage was dealt
immediately and Cannonball died. Because a Runner's Gear is trashed
when he dies in combat, the Ceska would also be trashed and the owner
could not trash it voluntarily for 1Y.
Stinger cards throw a proverbial wrench into the timing system
because they can be played at any time. Some Stingers, like Change of
Plans ("Play when a player announces a shadowrun. You may choose the
Objective of that shadowrun."), give you a specific time when they
must be played. Others, like Green Apple Quicksteps, can be played at
any time, just as stated in the rulebook.
The Green Apple Quicksteps card ("Target Runner must immediately
return to safehouse.") is an excellent example of how the timing in
the SRTCG works. In the example above, Cannonball's owner could have
played Green Apple Quicksteps at any time before combat ensued and
sent Cannonball back to the safehouse. However, as explained above,
combat takes place instantly and simultaneously, and so cannot be
interrupted by a Stinger card like Green Apple Quicksteps. Once the
combat began, the Hellhound killed Cannonball and Cannonball could no
longer be sent back to the safehouse.
To further clarify the example above: according to the rules of the
SRTCG, when a Challenge is revealed, the owner of the Challenge reads
the sleaze requirements aloud and the shadowrunning player looks to
see if his Runners can sleaze the Challenge. At this point, there is a
natural pause during which players can assess the situation and play
Stinger cards. If it helps you to understand the timing of the game,
think of this as a short "phase" when Stingers can be played. Because
players can assess the situation at this point, Green Apple Quicksteps
can be used to send a Runner back and prevent the Challenge from being
sleazed. Players also have time to see if the alarm is going to be
triggered and play Green Apple Quicksteps to "set up" the remaining
Runners for a nasty combat. If the alarm IS triggered, there is
another natural pause before players start comparing Threat Ratings or
assigning damage. This is the other "phase" during which it's okay to
play a Stinger. Having already had an opportunity to consider playing
Green Apple Quicksteps, it is easy for a player to "jump in" after the
alarm is triggered and play Green Apple Quicksteps before combat
begins.
Here's another example of timing: your opponent declares a shadowrun
against an undefended Objective and you choose to intercept with a
single Runner. Your opponent spends 2Y and plays Green Apple
Quicksteps to send your Runner back to the safehouse. Was the
shadowrun intercepted? No. When Green Apple Quicksteps was played, it
stopped your attempt to intercept the shadowrun and sent your Runner
back to the safehouse.
Suppose you had played the Stinger card Luck o' the Irish (Roll D6.
On 4+, trash either a Special card just played or one already in
play.") when your opponent played Green Apple Quicksteps? Luck o' the
Irish would cancel out Green Apple Quicksteps on a roll of 4+. If the
roll was successful, Green Apple Quicksteps would be canceled and the
Runner targeted by Green Apple Quicksteps would successfully intercept
the shadowrun. The shadowrunning player might then play the Stinger
card Bad Reputation (Target player who just attacked an opponent's
Runners loses 10 Reputation.).
As the example above illustrates, when more than one Stinger card is
played, they take effect in the order in which they were played. As
stated in the rulebook, Stingers can be played at ANY time. The only
time that a Stinger card cannot be played is during combat. Combat
takes place and is resolved instantly, leaving no "window" during
which a Stinger card can be played.

~~~~~~~~~~

===
@>--,--'--- Loki <gamemstr@********.com>

Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr

"You're calling me Bitch like it's a bad thing."
--> CrapGame during the Drive in the Country tournament
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com