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> > Vitas III
> > Cost: 0
> > Card Type: Special
> > Text: Play on any runner. Add a disease token to runner during the
> > runners owners upkeep. Each upkeep Vitas III does 2AP damage for
> each
> > disease token on the runner. If the runner is trashed then the
> > runners owner may choose a new target for Vitas III.
> >
> > Got the idea from a Jyhad card and modified it a little.

The other way we could go with this is to do:

Vitas III
Cost: 7

Play on target runner. At the start of the runner's Legwork Phase,
roll 1d6, Adding +1 if the Runner has Stamina, and +1 if runner is a
dwarf (Can be cumulative). 1 (or less): Trash runner and Vitas III.
2-4: Place a -0/-1 disease token on runner. Any runner damaged in
hand to Hand combat by a runner with a disease token rolls 1d6,
modified as above. unless the runner acheives 4+, Treat damaged
runner as if they (he/she?) had a separate Vitas III played on them.
If a runner suffers no damage in combat with an infected runner,
there is no chance of transmission. Biotech can be used to remove
disease counters equal to the Biotech skill, but cannot remove the
Vitas card.

This text does a few things:
1) It does away with the kudzo-like effect of passing Vitas back and
forth.
2) It shows the virulent nature without getting all on one side.
This represents the danger of bio-warfare (I hit you with the
stuff, but you get some on me and it ends up slaughtering my
forces while taking only a few (one? None?) of yours.)
3) It allows biotech to help.
4) IT shows the trend SRTCG has had of having few absolutes (even
LotI only has a 50% chance of working.)

On the downside, my version is much too verbose. Can anyone shrink
it down? Comments?

-=SwiftOne=-
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:36:00 EST
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: NExt Edition
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Did anyone else, in picking up Scrye to get Foxy Roxy (or something
else you lucky dogs) notice the little blip that a second printing of
SRTCG is due out in November, which will reprint many cards and
replace 50 or so? According to the article, that will include almost
all 35 objectives.

(Or did everyone already know this?)

-=SwiftOne=-
"Hey! These are just like Alpha!"
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:41:37 -0400
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From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: Big Knobi Klub http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: BKK card idea (was: Re: My Two Card Ideas)
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(>) Here is the one I sent to Skuzzy & Jim on 7-Sep-97:

It's a "Location" (duh!)
_________________________________________________________
BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
3¥: Turn a runner to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)
1-2: Sold Out Concert! You can't get in.
3-4: Not on the guest list. You may pay +1¥ to roll again.
5-6: You may take a Runner from your draw pile & deploy
it at no cost. (Player may not return to the Klub
until completing a Shadowrun with this new runner).
_________________________________________________________

Comments? Suggestions? Playability issues?

(Jim said it might possibly appear in the Underworld Expansion. Now, I'm
not holding my breath, but I'll definitely be a'trading if it does! ;-)

(>) --Fenris

_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) "It was an accident. No, really, this
time it was. Let me explain...."
(>) --Axly Suregrip
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:46:33 -0400
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From: Conrad Mikaelian <MLoki@***.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA answer on Flatline and Ammo

In a message dated 97-09-19 14:59:18 EDT, you write:

<< There are exceptions to the rules on a card by card basis, especially
with the rares. You have a rule that a runner may only take up to 6
essence cost worth of cyber ware but Hatchetman 2057 ignores that. You
have another rule that a runner may only have two of any kind of
cyberlimb. H-man 2057 ignores that again. You have deployment costs
printed on your gear cards, but several other cards say they get gear
or accessories given to them for free.

So Flatline may use two pistols at once, each pistol may be given
different ammo as an accessory. He fires both pistols simultaneously
in combat, thus getting to use two different kinds of ammo at once. If
it helps, think of him as automatically having the Extended Clip for
free (like Uncle Joe has the chipjack 2 for free, or Ravage has her
Wired Reflexes for free).

Flatline is just one card, and it so happens he's the one card that
gets to use two pistols at once. When they wrote the card text stating
only one kind of ammo may be used in combat at a time, that was
becuase the general rule is also only one weapon may be used in a
given combat. Flatline (like H-man 2057 with the cyberware rules) is
the exception to that. >>


I understand how the exceptions per card work but Flatline Doesn't say that
he can use two different types of ammo in one combat. As far as I knew even
if two completely seperate runners had two different guns with an ammo card
on each gun they still could Not use both ammo cards. Flatline's card text
says nothing about breaking the two ammo card rule. It is printed plain and
clear on the ammo cards and nothing on any other card breaks this rule except
extended clip. All I'm saying is that they need to clarify thier wording or
change it to mean what they say.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 12:57:02 -0700
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From: Andrew Payne III <smiling_bandit@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: BKK card idea (was: Re: My Two Card Ideas)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Logan Graves wrote:
>
> (>) Here is the one I sent to Skuzzy & Jim on 7-Sep-97:
>
> It's a "Location" (duh!)
> _________________________________________________________
> BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
> 3¥: Turn a runner to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)
> 1-2: Sold Out Concert! You can't get in.
> 3-4: Not on the guest list. You may pay +1¥ to roll again.
> 5-6: You may take a Runner from your draw pile & deploy
> it at no cost. (Player may not return to the Klub
> until completing a Shadowrun with this new runner).
> _________________________________________________________
>

I would suggest making it unique or change "from your draw pile" to
"from you hand". Maybe even go through you draw pile from top down
and put the first runner you come to in the game for free. Would make
a nice combo with a card that lets you see whats next in your draw
pile.

===
Andrew Payne III
smiling_bandit@**********.com
http://www.oakland.edu/~ddmccoll/sr






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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:55:32 EST
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <bxb24@**.opp.psu.edu>
From: Brett Borger <bxb121@***.EDU>
Organization: Office of Physical Plant
Subject: Re: BKK card idea (was: Re: My Two Card Ideas)
In-Reply-To: <3422D571.2007@*****.intercom.net>
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> BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
> 3¥: Turn a runner to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)

Better define how the +1 for Leadership or Social works...is that
cumulative, and do levels count? Or is it just one +1 possible?
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 13:06:56 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: BKK card idea
MIME-Version: 1.0
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---Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET> wrote:
>
> (>) Here is the one I sent to Skuzzy & Jim on 7-Sep-97:
>
> It's a "Location" (duh!)
> _________________________________________________________
> BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
> 3¥: Turn a runner to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)
> 1-2: Sold Out Concert! You can't get in.
> 3-4: Not on the guest list. You may pay +1¥ to roll again.
> 5-6: You may take a Runner from your draw pile & deploy
> it at no cost. (Player may not return to the Klub
> until completing a Shadowrun with this new runner).
> _________________________________________________________
>
> Comments? Suggestions? Playability issues?
>

This might make it too limiting for use, but it would give it more
flare I think....

_________________________________________________________
BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
2¥: Turn a ROCKER to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)
<2: Sold Out Concert! You can't get in poser...
3-4: Not on the guest list. You may pay 1¥ to roll again.
5-6: You may take a ROCKER from your draw pile & deploy
it at no cost.
7+: RIOTS! Trash Big Knobi Klub
_________________________________________________________

Differences:
- cost has been dropped, and runner type specified (we needed one for
rockers anyway)
- upper and lower "open ended" limits have been defined (for Loaded
Dice and other such things)
- Negative effects on the high and low end. I like these kind of
cards because they don't allow you to dump a lot Loaded Dice on it for
a "sure thing".

As I said it may limit it from the original design, but I think it
gives it a better "flavor".

Forrest
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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 15:09:08 -0700
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From: Rookie <rookie@********.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC]GenCon98 Guestlist Update:19Sep97/1235L
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

At 12:58 PM 9/19/97 -0700, GRANITE wrote:
>Here be the list as it stands to date:

>If I missed anyone..My mailer crapped out and I lost a big chunk of
>email I had not gotten to read yet..So tell me again..
>--------------------------------GRANITE
> "Rock Steady"

Hey I'm going to go!

-Tim
"Ahoy! Pirate flag, two points starboard!"

"You idiot! Turn the looking glass around and point it at the ocean and
not our flag!!!"

rookie@********.com
lagclient@***.com
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:18:39 -0700
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From: Tony Glinka <glinka@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: FASA answer on Flatline and Ammo
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Loki wrote:

> There are exceptions to the rules on a card by card basis, especially
> with the rares. You have a rule that a runner may only take up to 6
> essence cost worth of cyber ware but Hatchetman 2057 ignores that. You
> have another rule that a runner may only have two of any kind of
> cyberlimb. H-man 2057 ignores that again. You have deployment costs
> printed on your gear cards, but several other cards say they get gear
> or accessories given to them for free.
>
> So Flatline may use two pistols at once, each pistol may be given
> different ammo as an accessory. He fires both pistols simultaneously
> in combat, thus getting to use two different kinds of ammo at once. If
> it helps, think of him as automatically having the Extended Clip for
> free (like Uncle Joe has the chipjack 2 for free, or Ravage has her
> Wired Reflexes for free).
>
> Flatline is just one card, and it so happens he's the one card that
> gets to use two pistols at once. When they wrote the card text stating
> only one kind of ammo may be used in combat at a time, that was
> becuase the general rule is also only one weapon may be used in a
> given combat. Flatline (like H-man 2057 with the cyberware rules) is
> the exception to that.

Not to throw any gasoline on a small fire here, but what happens when
you give Flatline an extended clip on one or both guns? Can he use Armor
Piercing, Flechette, and Explosive Rounds?What about if they bring in some
new ammo with the new sets like stun gel or rubber bullets or something
similar? Does that mean if he has two guns each with an extended clip, he
can use four kinds of ammo?

Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:22:32 -0700
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From: Tony Glinka <glinka@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Ambidextrous and Katana
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Here's a topic Loki and I are were discussing earlier today. If
you have say Lord Torgo with an Ambidextrous Special and then give him
2 katanas, does he add the melee in twice? Katanas are +2/+0 and user
gets to add his melee skill. Ambidextrous allows the runner to use
two weapons simultaneously. The ruling on handrazors allows the
runner to add melee in twice, but maybe hand razors are slightly
different since they are cyberware. So what does everybody think?

Tony
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 16:35:21 -0700
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: FASA FAQ 2.0 On-line
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

For those interested. The Offical FASA FAQ 2.0 can now be found posted
on their page.

Just a heads-up.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97




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Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:03:00 -0400
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From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: Big Knobi Klub http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Re: BKK card idea [oops, long]
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(>) In our last one, Forrest wrote:

> This might make it too limiting for use, but it would give it more
> flare I think....
>
> _________________________________________________________
> BIG KNOBI KLUB (3¥ to deploy) Street Location
> 2¥: Turn a ROCKER to roll D6. (+1 for Leadership or Social)
> <2: Sold Out Concert! You can't get in poser...
> 3-4: Not on the guest list. You may pay 1¥ to roll again.
> 5-6: You may take a ROCKER from your draw pile & deploy
> it at no cost.
> 7+: RIOTS! Trash Big Knobi Klub
> _________________________________________________________

I like your "can't get in poser..." tag-line & your "open-ended"
die
rolls. More of the Locations could benefit from this.

'Trash the Klub' is a good one, but I'd put it at the Lower end.
Otherwise it kindof conflicts with the pluses for leadership (although
it could signify a riot for *your* heroic & 'socially'-enhanced
autograph...) We thought about including 'Fame' in the mix, but there
are only a limited number of lines on the Locations cards for
descriptions.

I would disagree with the 'Rocker limitation' on *this* card. Ya see,
the Klub is a hangout for Shadowrunners, not Rockerboys/gals. (Maybe
save this effect for use at Penumbra or Matchsticks or Dante's Inferno.)
The idea here is that it's a place to go to gather a "band (oops, poor
choice of words, there) of followers". The catch being: ya can't show
yer face around the Klub again, 'till ya make a 'run!

(Besides, most of the regular, local bands that play the BKK, wouldn't
know which end of a gun to point at ya - if it had:
" THIS WAY TOWARDS ENEMY ==> "
emblazened on *both* sides of the barrel in glowing neo-lux
letters!!! I mean we're talking a Big "0/0" in the Threat Dept, if ya
catch my drift. ;-)


(>) In an earlier episode, Brett Borger asked:

> Better define how the +1 for Leadership or Social works...is that
> cumulative, and do levels count? Or is it just one +1 possible?

Once the actual levels were worked out (such as the "open-ended" idea,
above), I'd say that "Yes, cumulatives count." Just for each individual
runner turned (ie. each roll/re-roll).

Again you're trying to get otherwise-healthy runners to risk their
lives for your cause. (Just think back to that T$R game,that I know we
all played, where nearly every adventure started in a bar & involved an
attempt at attracting a party of foolhar.. er, stalwart characters.
Well, you get the pic...)

'Though I did just get Foxy Roxy from "Scrye." And given my original
write-up, she'd be guaranteed a new runner each time for at least 3¥.
So, maybe this needs some more thinking.

But hey, betcha thought designing these cards was easy! Din'tcha,
clavie?

(>) --Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Well, how was *I* supposed to know they'd
be so touchy about their acronym?!
(>) --The Smiling Bandit, during the firefight
with the Aztechnology Secret Service agents.
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:29:17 CDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: My Two Card Ideas

Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
>>Prime Time
>>Type: Special
>>Cost: 3/1
>>Notes: Target Non-Prime Runner is now a Prime Runner.
>> All Skills go up by 1 and in additon:
>> If Mage/Shaman +1 Sorcery or +1 Conjure +0/+1
>> If Decker +1 Decking +Recon +0/+1
>> If Rigger +1 Piloting +1/+1 (+A1)
>> Otherwise +2/+2 (+A1)
>
>>I just think it would be a good card to play on one of your own
>>runners or even on your opponent's if she's having cash flow
>>problems.
>
>Don't like the difference in increase between the classes; I'd
>standardize it. Since Conjure is a skill, does this mean Nightshade now
>has Conjure-3 (+1 skill, +1 Conjure)? Come here little Ally..

Well that's an option. I would go with Conjure 2 and Sorcery 1 (the
Sally Tsung route).

>>High Profile Job
>>Type: Special
>>Cost: 5
>>Notes: Unique
>> Until a Shadowrun is successful, Prime Runner's upkeep
>> costs are doubled and the next objective successfully
>> completed is worth +10 Reputation.
>>
>>I think there needs to be a card that makes Prime Runners a tad
>>bit harder to keep in play...
>
>Definitely don't like this one. I'd play it in a P-Runner less deck;
>play when I think I can take an Objective, and, if I don't make it, LotI
>it.

That's quite possible, but then again your opponent could LotI it before
you earn the Reputation.

>I could see it targetting a specific P-Runner, however, although
>doubling is a little harsh (b'bye, li'l Torgo!)

You could keep Torgo by himself, but you wouldn't be playing any other
cards, sving up nuyen for elf killing or paying for specials unless you
have some Fame working for you.

But maybe you're right...



--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:36:42 CDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: My Two Card Ideas

Forrest <eness@**********.COM> wrote:
>>Prime Time
>>Type: Special
>>Cost: 3/1
>>Notes: Target Non-Prime Runner is now a Prime Runner.
>> All Skills go up by 1 and in additon:
>> If Mage/Shaman +1 Sorcery or +1 Conjure +0/+1
>> If Decker +1 Decking +Recon +0/+1
>> If Rigger +1 Piloting +1/+1 (+A1)
>> Otherwise +2/+2 (+A1)

<Comments on having non-runner upkeep costs>

>With that aside, I'm not exactly sure what the benefit is of playing
>the above card on your oppenent's runners. When the upkeep cost isn't
>meet does the Prime Time card go away (which keeping with the way
>upkeep costs work would make sense)? Alternatively, do both the Prime
>Time and runner go away (which I think is the effect you are looking
>for)? It might be helpful to specify it on the card though. I like
>the idea though.

I figured it would discard the runner along with the Prime Time.

>>High Profile Job
>>Type: Special
>>Cost: 5
>>Notes: Unique
>> Until a Shadowrun is successful, Prime Runner's upkeep
>> costs are doubled and the next objective successfully
>> completed is worth +10 Reputation.
>
> Might want to add a trash HPJ after the successful run.

You would be correct again....

--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
=========================================================================
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 1997 21:55:49 CDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: My Two Card Ideas

Andrew Payne III <smiling_bandit@**********.COM> wrote:
>>Prime Time
>>Type: Special
>>Cost: 3/1
>>Notes: Target Non-Prime Runner is now a Prime Runner.
>> All Skills go up by 1 and in additon:
>> If Mage/Shaman +1 Sorcery or +1 Conjure +0/+1
>> If Decker +1 Decking +Recon +0/+1
>> If Rigger +1 Piloting +1/+1 (+A1)
>> Otherwise +2/+2 (+A1)
>
>
>Definetly add on to the text that if the upkeep is not paid then both
>Prime Time and the attached runner are trashed.
>
>1:
>Target Non-Prime Runner is now a Prime Runner. If upkeep is not
>met trash both Prime Time and attached runner.
> If Mage/Shaman +1 Sorcery +1 Conjure
> If Decker +1 Decking Give runner a free Gear/Matrix card from your
>hand
> If Rigger +1 Piloting Give runner a free Gear/Drone card from your
>hand
>Otherwise +2/+2 (+A1)
>
>This maybe a little long to fit on a card but it was just a thought.

Well, the making of the card led to the problem that the card to a
none specialized runner would be an expensive goblinization for
non-humans...

That's why I went with the +1 to every skill. I also wanted to refrain
from diving free gear out, since this card could be used to just get
out that Doberman patrol vehicle...

Then again from what I've read most people think that the card isn't
a good idea anyway...

>>High Profile Job
>
>I would change this one to the following.
>
>High Profile Job
>Type: Special
>Cost: 3
>Notes: Unique
> Play on any objective, objective is now worth an extra 10
> reppoints. Before a player makes a shadowrun on the attached
> objective all runners going on shadowrun must repay their
> upkeep or stay in the safehouse.
>
>I killed the 5 cost because it is unique and only effects a single
>objective.

I personally liked someone elses suggestion that it be a challenge...
but I'll comment on that when I get to that message....


--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 00:31:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: James Poppe <azweepay@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ambidextrous and Katana
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

> Here's a topic Loki and I are were discussing earlier today. If
>you have say Lord Torgo with an Ambidextrous Special and then give him
>2 katanas, does he add the melee in twice? Katanas are +2/+0 and user
>gets to add his melee skill. Ambidextrous allows the runner to use
>two weapons simultaneously. The ruling on handrazors allows the
>runner to add melee in twice, but maybe hand razors are slightly
>different since they are cyberware. So what does everybody think?

I would have to say yes, Torgo gets to add his melee twice (and watches as
the other players being to shudder)... I intent on using a slight variation
in that theory for a deck.

Hatchetman 2057-All the D#mn chipjacks I can
find-Skillsoft:Melee-Ambidextrous-2 Katanas-Doc Wagon (Platinum)

I figure with enough Nuyen, I can easily begin to start walking through
challenges and not worry about sleazing.
James Poppe
azweepay@********.com

I love the American Legal System... (see below)

Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.


Isn't American GREAT!!!
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:10:14 CDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: Ambidextrous and Katana

James Poppe <azweepay@********.COM> wrote:
>> Here's a topic Loki and I are were discussing earlier today. If
>>you have say Lord Torgo with an Ambidextrous Special and then give him
>>2 katanas, does he add the melee in twice? Katanas are +2/+0 and user
>>gets to add his melee skill. Ambidextrous allows the runner to use
>>two weapons simultaneously. The ruling on handrazors allows the
>>runner to add melee in twice, but maybe hand razors are slightly
>>different since they are cyberware. So what does everybody think?
>
>I would have to say yes, Torgo gets to add his melee twice (and watches as
>the other players being to shudder)... I intent on using a slight variation
>in that theory for a deck.

Yep, you'ld have to treat them just like hand razors... Katana's are
so nice... Although I still love giving Torgo Stun Gloves instead.

>Hatchetman 2057-All the D#mn chipjacks I can
>find-Skillsoft:Melee-Ambidextrous-2 Katanas-Doc Wagon (Platinum)
>
>I figure with enough Nuyen, I can easily begin to start walking through
>challenges and not worry about sleazing.

Yeah, he'ld be a very tough customer but there are alot more cost effective
ways of taking out challenges.

A minimum of 21 nuyen for a 12/6 runner who is immune to his first death
(but returned to the Safehouse) in 7 cards.

And the maximum a challenge (with out objective/integrated control center
bonuses) is 13.

Skwaaark with 2 hand razors is easier to get out, but can't use the
doc-wagon. Also Flatline can quickly become nastier for less nuyen
and one less card.

Personally I'ld take my chances with Lord Torgo and Stun gloves. :)

--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 01:48:25 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Marcinkus <marci001@***.EDU>
Subject: Q:Red Widow and Nets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Has there been an official ruling on Red Widow encountering Nets yet?

(Nets send runner back to Safehouse unturned, Red Widow turns to go back on
Shadowrun.)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:36:50 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: Big Knobi Klub http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Re: The Best Luck in the World!
MIME-Version: 1.0
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(>) The udder day, Lady Jestyr wrote:

> Now how is *this* for the best luck ever!
<snip-age>
> Anyway, I was walking down the street, and there, sitting on the
> pavement, was... A HATCHETMAN 2057 card!!!! I looked around and couldn't
> see whose it was - so I am now the proud owner of a Hatchetman 2057
> card. <happy dance> :)


Okay, here's my tale, tho' it's not nearly as spectacular as Jestyr's

When I went in to buy my copy of Scrye, the guy in the line behind me
was buying it too, only it turned out that he played the Star Wars CCG,
not SRTCG. Once we realized this, it was instant trade-age!! So I
became the proud owner of two Foxy Roxy's.

Bad deal, you ask? No, way! I gave one to the wife (for free!).
This saved me the bother of trying to smooth over the 'new-card
gap'-thingy, which always arises when one of gets a new booster.

(And I would have been a hero for it, if I hadn't *just* won the last
two games in-a-row, largely by using my two Cherry Bombs' special
abilities on my wife's Warehouses & Iron Lungs!!

Oh well, win some, lose some, sleep on the couch some... ;-)

(>) --Fenris

_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) There is no personal problem that can't
be solved by proper use of high explosives.
Take my EX-ex- for example...
(>) --[Me], former company "operative"
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 03:02:15 CDT
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Phillip G Jaros <phillip_jaros@**.US.SWISSBANK.COM>
Subject: Re: [GC]GenCon98 Guestlist Update
In-Reply-To: <19970919190347875.AAA535@*********.gj.net>; from "GRANITE"
at
Sep 19, 97 12:58 pm

> Here be the list as it stands to date:

<snip snip....>

> If I missed anyone..My mailer crapped out and I lost a big chunk of
> email I had not gotten to read yet..So tell me again..

I shall be there.... and with so many people going it looks like it will be
for multiple days....


--
Phil Jaros 888888888 Chicago Tech Support
jarosph@**.us.swissbank.com O=O=O=O=O SBC Warburg
___________aaaaaaaaaaaaa___________

___...aaaad8888888888888888p"""""q8888888888888888baaaa...___
``"""""q8888888888888|
|8888888888888p"""""''
``"""""< `=-~-='
>"""""''
Chakan `| ^ |'
The Forever Man / | =-= | \
/ `__.__' \
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:21:19 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Some card ideas
In-Reply-To: <19970919165903.4986.rocketmail@*****.rocketmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Ritual Link
> Cost: 2
> Card Type: Gear/Magic/Ritual
> Text: Play on a runner with sorcery. When Ritual Link is played
> select
> any runner as the target of the link. X¥: Turn a linked runner
> that is a mage or shaman to do XAP damage to the other linked
> runner.

Needs to be mages only; shamans in the card game don't cast spells. Not
that I've seen, anyway.

> Vitas III
> Cost: 0
> Card Type: Special
> Text: Play on any runner. Add a disease token to runner during the
> runners owners upkeep. Each upkeep Vitas III does 2AP damage for each
> disease token on the runner. If the runner is trashed then the
> runners owner may choose a new target for Vitas III.

Hmmm... not so keen on this.

1. Don't like the tokens bit...
2. Smakcs a bit of magic and infection counters. "Upkeep? When's that?"


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
"No more drugs for that man!" - Dietrich, Face/Off
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 20:27:53 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Lady Jestyr <jestyr@*******.DIALIX.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: NExt Edition
In-Reply-To: <C380DE2F4B@**.opp.psu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> Did anyone else, in picking up Scrye to get Foxy Roxy (or something
> else you lucky dogs) notice the little blip that a second printing of
> SRTCG is due out in November, which will reprint many cards and
> replace 50 or so? According to the article, that will include almost
> all 35 objectives.
>
> (Or did everyone already know this?)

*shrug* I knew that... in fact, that little tidbit is up on my SRTCG
page... guess who hasn't been paying attention then?


Lady Jestyr

-------------------------------------------------------------
"No more drugs for that man!" - Dietrich, Face/Off
-------------------------------------------------------------
Elle Holmes jestyr@*******.dialix.com.au
http://jestyr.home.ml.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 05:19:30 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Ambidextrous and Katana
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Tony Glinka <glinka@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
> Here's a topic Loki and I are were discussing earlier today. If
> you have say Lord Torgo with an Ambidextrous Special and then give
him
> 2 katanas, does he add the melee in twice? Katanas are +2/+0 and
user
> gets to add his melee skill. Ambidextrous allows the runner to use
> two weapons simultaneously. The ruling on handrazors allows the
> runner to add melee in twice, but maybe hand razors are slightly
> different since they are cyberware. So what does everybody think?
>
> Tony
>

Since it would take awhile (theoretically) and some effort to put this
combo together I would say that it is allowable. Also there is no
real basis for disallowing one or both of the bonuses simply because
it would make Torgo more of a pain than he is :-)

Forrest


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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:48:41 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: Big Knobi Klub http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Nothing like starting off your Saturday with questions. These came up
last night:

1. The challenge 'Draco Form' is listed as "unique," but it's played
face down. So what if a couple of players bring two of these into play
at the same time? Does the second one become a bluff? Or is a
Challenge "in play" only during the shadowrun against its objective?

2. Since anyone with conjuring can use Spirits, can anybody with
piloting, such as Turbo the ganger, use drones? (I know what the RPG
answer would be: no vcr = no rigg, but...)

3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium
pistol also acts as body armor?

4. Once a Motion Sensor challenge has been set off (ie. placed face-up
on its objective), can later runners try to sleaze it, first, when
attempting the run again? Or is it irreversible?

(>) --Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
A "Highway Showdown" followed up by
"Double Jeopardy" is an ~evil~ combo!
(I should know: It hit me, twice!)
--[me]
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 06:02:24 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET> wrote:
>
[snip]
> 2. Since anyone with conjuring can use Spirits, can anybody with
> piloting, such as Turbo the ganger, use drones? (I know what the RPG
> answer would be: no vcr = no rigg, but...)
>
I seem to recall there was some card that was only playable on a
rigger or someone with piloting-2 (yep PRC-44b Yellowjacket). Since
this distinction has been made, I would say that you are correct. A
rigger is a rigger and everyone else is just a really good driver :-)

> 3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium
> pistol also acts as body armor?
>
I can only assume that it is because you can only have some many +1/+0
and +2/+0 pistols before it starts to get dull :-) Look at it this
way, the Beretta is compact enough that it will allow you to draw it
while getting out of the way ;-)


> 4. Once a Motion Sensor challenge has been set off (ie. placed
face-up
> on its objective), can later runners try to sleaze it, first, when
> attempting the run again? Or is it irreversible?
>

I'm pretty sure that it is supposed to be irreversible.


Hope that helps
Forrest
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:31:52 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Justin Marcinkus <marci001@***.EDU>
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

> From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
> 1. The challenge 'Draco Form' is listed as "unique," but it's played
> face down. So what if a couple of players bring two of these into play
> at the same time? Does the second one become a bluff? Or is a
> Challenge "in play" only during the shadowrun against its objective?

Unique simply means that you can only put one in your deck. Multiple
players can play the same unique card on the table. Hence, False Mentor can
reclaim reputation points taken by a False Mentor. You would have to face
both Guardian Dracoforms... nasty.

----------------
Justin Marcinkus
marci001@***.edu
----------------
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 11:28:11 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: Some card ideas

You wrote:
>
>> Ritual Link
>> Cost: 2
>> Card Type: Gear/Magic/Ritual
>> Text: Play on a runner with sorcery. When Ritual Link is played
>> select
>> any runner as the target of the link. X¥: Turn a linked
runner
>> that is a mage or shaman to do XAP damage to the other linked
>> runner.
>
>Needs to be mages only; shamans in the card game don't cast spells.
Not
>that I've seen, anyway.
>

Save for Sally, a Mage that can Conjure. Now if we want to get
nit-picky about Shamans Conjuring Elementals and such nonsense...(grin)

Argent
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:27:46 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Joseph Mondragon <hapihse@******.COM>
Subject: greetings/new card idea
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

My friends and I out here in beautiful Santa Cruz CA, just started playing
the card game a few weeks ago and just started reading all this stuff a few
days ago. fun fun fun. My card idea definetely needs some tweeking:

Loan Shark
Type: Contact
Cost: ?
Notes: Loan shark lends you 12 nuyen, but you must pay back 16. During
credstick phase, if 4 nuyen payment is not made trash (frag?) target
(random?) runner.

Of course, you would roll to see if you get anything in the first place,
and either trash loan shark after full payment or be unable to get more
until current loan is paid off.

comments/suggestions?


Also, forgive my ignorance, but so far I've read alot about the who of
GenCon, but am in the dark about the what and wnere of it (I've deduced the
why...).

god where do these people come from?

my clever quote:

"It was a rhetorical thing, put that bone down you're scaring the shit out
of me!"
-overheard

"Remember- no matter where you go, there you are."
-Buckaroo Banzai
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:03:28 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: FASA answer on Sleaze (Matrix/Gear)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---FASACorp2@***.com wrote:

Q. The Sleaze card has me a little confused. Just who "must face
Challenge." Does the rest of the Runner team deal with the Challenge
while the Decker suppresses the alarm (kinda like a Matrix silenced
weapon)? Or must the Decker encounter the Challenge himself? If it's
the decker, then how is a Hunting Gargoyle, Electric Fence or
Manticore getting into the Matrix?

Sleaze
Type: Gear
Rarity: Uncommon
Description: Gear/Matrix
Notes: 3Y. Play on Runner with Decking. User may reset a triggered
alarm on a D6 roll of 3+, but must face Challenge. Runners may then
sleaze additional Challenges.



A. The whole Runner team faces the Challenge as they would normally.
You're right. It IS confusing and we're going to re-word it.

Jim N.

~~~~~~~~~~

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97

_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:07:05 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: FASA answer on Dodger and Closed Systems
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---FASACorp2@***.com wrote:

Dodger's card text says "Dodger treats closed systems as normal
systems."

I haven't yet come across anything referred to as a "closed" system.
Does Dodger's special perhaps mean a "custom" system as in the
Challenge?

A. The Impossible Mission Objective is a Closed System. It's not a
"device" we've used much in the game. We will, though...

Jim N.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97


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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:22:11 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: NExt Edition
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Lady Jestyr wrote:
>
> > Did anyone else, in picking up Scrye to get Foxy Roxy (or something
> > else you lucky dogs) notice the little blip that a second printing
of
> > SRTCG is due out in November, which will reprint many cards and
> > replace 50 or so? According to the article, that will include
almost
> > all 35 objectives.
> >
> > (Or did everyone already know this?)
>
> *shrug* I knew that... in fact, that little tidbit is up on my SRTCG
> page... guess who hasn't been paying attention then?

<five-year-old mentality>

Actually, I knew it even knew it before you, since the article you
have posted on your page is one I got from Skuzzy and forwarded to the
ShadowRN list. :ob

</five-year-old mentality>

:o)

This was before the SRCard list came into existence.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97

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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:25:29 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Q:Red Widow and Nets
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Justin Marcinkus wrote:
>
> Has there been an official ruling on Red Widow encountering Nets yet?
>
> (Nets send runner back to Safehouse unturned, Red Widow turns to go
back on
> Shadowrun.)

No, there hasn't been.

Skuzzy and Jim are gone this next week on a much deserved vacation so
we don't have anyone at FASA to officially answer questions. I'll keep
this one in a holding pattern along with any others we come up with,
then shoot them over there when the guys are back in the shop.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:37:39 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Logan Graves wrote:
>
> Nothing like starting off your Saturday with questions. These came
up
> last night:
>
> 1. The challenge 'Draco Form' is listed as "unique," but it's played
> face down. So what if a couple of players bring two of these into
play
> at the same time? Does the second one become a bluff? Or is a
> Challenge "in play" only during the shadowrun against its objective?

You're confusing restrictions for Unique cards and Prime Runners. A
Unique designation means a given player may only have one in their
deck. Prime Runners may only be one in play, amongst all the players,
at any given time.

> 2. Since anyone with conjuring can use Spirits, can anybody with
> piloting, such as Turbo the ganger, use drones? (I know what the RPG
> answer would be: no vcr = no rigg, but...)

Only Riggers. RBT (pg 33) "Drone cards may only be used by Riggers" as
opposed to (pg 34) "Spirit cards may only be used by Shamans and other
Runners with the Conjure skill."

> 3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium
> pistol also acts as body armor?

'Cause the DLOH's want it that way?

> 4. Once a Motion Sensor challenge has been set off (ie. placed
face-up
> on its objective), can later runners try to sleaze it, first, when
> attempting the run again? Or is it irreversible?

It's there to stay. One recent run against the corp fragged up and now
they're on a paranoid alert.

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:47:51 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: FASA answer on pumpable challenges
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---FASACorp2@***.com wrote:

Q. OK, regarding +/- pumpable Challenges:

Ancients Turf
Type: Challenge
Description: (Outdoor/Street/Personnel)
Notes: 1Y: +2/-2 until end of turn. "Ancients ain't no daisy-eaters.
They're mean as trolls." Sleaze: Piloting-2 OR Streetwise-3. 7/4.

Am I able to pump an amount of nu yen into a challenge like this that
would take it's body negative. In other words, let's say my opponent
reveals Ancient's Turf. I put 6 nu yen into it, which effectively
makes the challenge a 19/-8. According to a repsonse we got from you
about the effect Milk Run would have on Chomps 2000, I'm assuming this
is legit. Ancient's Turf would be trashed after combat, regardless of
the outcome, but it will still deal it's 19 points of damage to my
opponent's Runner team. Is this actually correct?

A. I'm not sure who responded to the Chomps 2000/Milk Run question (it
doesn't ring a bell so I'm guessing it was Mike). However, you aren't
permitted to pump a Challeng like Ancient's Turf to a negative Body
value. It can go to 0 and then it deals damage and is trashed.
(Rulebook-p. 23)

Jim N.

~~~~~~~~~~

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/19/97

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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:54:00 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Bull <chaos@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
Mime-Version: 1.0
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At 08:48 AM 9/20/97 -0400, Logan Graves wrote these timeless words:
>Nothing like starting off your Saturday with questions. These came up
>last night:
>
>1. The challenge 'Draco Form' is listed as "unique," but it's played
>face down. So what if a couple of players bring two of these into play
>at the same time? Does the second one become a bluff? Or is a
>Challenge "in play" only during the shadowrun against its objective?
>
Unique means that you can only have one in your deck. There can be
multiple Unique Cards in play, you just can't put more than one in play.
Think "Restricted" from magic.

There can only be one of each Prime Runner in play at one time, though...

>2. Since anyone with conjuring can use Spirits, can anybody with
>piloting, such as Turbo the ganger, use drones? (I know what the RPG
>answer would be: no vcr = no rigg, but...)
>
No... It says you can only play drones on Riggers.

>3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium
>pistol also acts as body armor?
>
Not Armor, just adds to your toughness. No idea why...

>4. Once a Motion Sensor challenge has been set off (ie. placed face-up
>on its objective), can later runners try to sleaze it, first, when
>attempting the run again? Or is it irreversible?
>
Nope. Once it's attached, it no longer counts as an challenge, and can't
be encountered or sleazed. It's just permanently in effect.

Bull
--
Bull, aka Steven Ratkovich, aka Rak, aka a lot of others! :]

The Offical Celebrity Shadowrn Mailing List Welcome Ork Decker!
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HOME PAGE: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3604/home.html

"Whoever invented solataire is one sadistic son of a bitch"
-- Me, after spending 2 hours trying to win a game
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 14:26:13 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: Re: [GC]GenCon98 Guestlist Update:20Sep97/1425L
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Here be the list as it stands to date:

GRANITE
Michael Broadwater
Lady Jestyr
Bull
Caric
Loki
Wolfstar
Canthros
VAEL
The Bookworm
Mike Paff
Adam "WolfJack"
Justin Pinnow
DREKHEAD
David Buehrer
Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Bandit
Augurer
J. Keith Henry (Binder)
WarChylde
Thumper
Skye
The Kumquat
Nightlife
Tamino aka Shane Winzar
Wakabout aka Josh Kanapkey
Gweedo The Killer Pimp
Gabriel Sims aka Bio-Hazard
James Poppe
Todd M. Behringer
Rookie Tim
Phil Jaros
--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:05:32 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Comments: Authenticated sender is <granite@**.net>
From: GRANITE <granite@**.NET>
Organization: Granite Forge Productions
Subject: [GC]GenCon98 Guestlist Update:20Sep97/1505L
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Here be the list as it stands to date:

GRANITE
Michael Broadwater
Lady Jestyr
Bull
Caric
Loki
Wolfstar
Canthros
VAEL
The Bookworm
Mike Paff
Adam "WolfJack"
Justin Pinnow
DREKHEAD
David Buehrer
Buck (Mike Buckalew)
Bandit
Augurer
J. Keith Henry (Binder)
WarChylde
Thumper
Skye
The Kumquat
Nightlife
Tamino aka Shane Winzar
Wakabout aka Josh Kanapkey
Gweedo The Killer Pimp
Gabriel Sims aka Bio-Hazard
James Poppe
Todd M. Behringer
Rookie Tim
Phil Jaros
Tony Rabiola

--------------------------------GRANITE
"Rock Steady"
===============================================
Lord, Grant Me The Serenity To Accept The Things I Cannot Change,
The Courage To Change The Things I Can,
And The Wisdom To Hide The Bodies Of Those People I Had To Kill
Because They Pissed Me Off.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ShadowRunner's Serenity Prayer
===============================================
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 15:22:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Trade Fodder the sequel
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Just letting you guys know I picked up another handful of Boosters
today, and that gave me a few more Rares to trade in the quest to
complete my set. (Just 17 cards to go.)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/20/97








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=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 19:57:47 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: ">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<"
<axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject: Promotional Decks?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

A few people have mentioned (I apologize about forgetting names) that when
they were at GenCon, they bought(???) or received promotional decks. I was
just wondering if there was any difference between those decks to what was
released, besides maybe having a stamp saying 'Promo Deck" upon it? And if
possible, what consisted of those decks?

Much thanks in advanced,
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 21:14:47 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Dvixen <dvixen@********.COM>
Subject: Re: Promotional Decks?
MIME-Version: 1.0
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>>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<< wrote:
>
> A few people have mentioned (I apologize about forgetting names) that when
> they were at GenCon, they bought(???) or received promotional decks. I was
> just wondering if there was any difference between those decks to what was
> released, besides maybe having a stamp saying 'Promo Deck" upon it? And if
> possible, what consisted of those decks?

Mike N was saying that when he designed the promo decks, the two decks
consisted mainly of Rare cards. (And I think he's right. There *are* a lot
of rares in those two...) But as far as I can tell, the promo deck cards are
the same as the regualr release.


--

Dvixen Code-word : Weevil-chuck. dvixen@********.com
"And I thought First Ones were rare." - Ivanova - Babylon 5
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 12:53:24 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Organization: Big Knobi Klub http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm
Subject: Re: greetings/new card idea
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(>) The udder day, Joseph Mondragon wrote:

> Loan Shark
> Type: Contact
> Cost: ?
> Notes: Loan shark lends you 12 nuyen, but you must pay back 16. During
> credstick phase, if 4 nuyen payment is not made trash (frag?) target
> (random?) runner.
>
> Of course, you would roll to see if you get anything in the first place,
> and either trash loan shark after full payment or be unable to get more
> until current loan is paid off.

A cost of 3¥ or 4¥ to bring this card into play wouldn't seem too
unreasonable.

So, if I suss this one: you receive 12¥ up front, & you *have* to fork
over your next 4 credstick allotments, or else?

I'd guess the sneaky way to use this card, then would be to use it for
your "last push" at victory -- ie. that run that lets you win the game,
or something.

...Or maybe you couldn't win, 'till the load was paid off. This way
the other players would have a 'sudden death' -type scenario of four
turns to beat you (without your nuyen stipend). Hummmrn... It's almost
like real life!

(>) --Fenris
___________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) If your opponent's battle cry
is: "Die, Mortal !" don't stick
around to see if he isn't.
(>) --Serrin Shamandar, elven mage
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 10:26:59 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: greetings/new card idea
MIME-Version: 1.0
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---Logan Graves <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET> wrote:
>
> (>) The udder day, Joseph Mondragon wrote:
>
> > Loan Shark
> > Type: Contact
> > Cost: ?
> > Notes: Loan shark lends you 12 nuyen, but you must pay back 16.
During
> > credstick phase, if 4 nuyen payment is not made trash (frag?)
target
> > (random?) runner.
> >
> > Of course, you would roll to see if you get anything in the first
place,
> > and either trash loan shark after full payment or be unable to get
more
> > until current loan is paid off.
>
> A cost of 3¥ or 4¥ to bring this card into play wouldn't seem too
> unreasonable.
>
> So, if I suss this one: you receive 12¥ up front, & you *have* to
fork
> over your next 4 credstick allotments, or else?
>
> I'd guess the sneaky way to use this card, then would be to use it
for
> your "last push" at victory -- ie. that run that lets you win the
game,
> or something.
>
> ...Or maybe you couldn't win, 'till the load was paid off. This
way
> the other players would have a 'sudden death' -type scenario of four
> turns to beat you (without your nuyen stipend). Hummmrn... It's
almost
> like real life!
>

Another clause you might want to add is something that DISallows you
to remove this contact from play yourself. Thus preventing a player
from getting the money, then using an Elvish Hitman to avoid paying it
back.


Forrest
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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 13:11:36 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Promotional Decks?
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" wrote:
>
> A few people have mentioned (I apologize about forgetting names)
that when
> they were at GenCon, they bought(???) or received promotional decks.
I was
> just wondering if there was any difference between those decks to
what was
> released, besides maybe having a stamp saying 'Promo Deck" upon it?
And if
> possible, what consisted of those decks?

There were two decks, one primarily bruiser-types and the other
mages/shamans. You got to keep them after playing a demo of the SRTCG.

The demo decks are pretty much the same as the cards you're playing
with now, except for a couple of things: the demo decks have "Demo
Only" emblazened on their backs and are 80% Rares.

I also believe the demo decks were a pre-release print so there's a
couple of oops's in them (like Z-Zone missing it's deployment cost.)

-== Loki ==-
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Fearless Leader of the Shadowrun Trading Card Game Mailing List
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Web Page: Poisoned Elves at www.primenet.com/~gamemstr
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
SRTCG trade lists last updated 9/20/97
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 06:14:37 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: greetings/new card idea
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> Loan Shark
> Type: Contact
> Cost: ?
> Notes: Loan shark lends you 12 nuyen, but you must pay back 16. During
> credstick phase, if 4 nuyen payment is not made trash (frag?) target
> (random?) runner.

> Of course, you would roll to see if you get anything in the first place,
> and either trash loan shark after full payment or be unable to get more
> until current loan is paid off.

I could see this card bending a couple different ways. (Tho to be
honest, at first glance it smacked me a lot of Netrunner and its Corp
cards).

First comment: Money's nothin'. Having to pay back X just doesn't do
much, as far as losing the game: most likely you're going to play this
as a last ditch, get Torgo, FastJack and Sally Tsung all out on the same
turn - and make it into either I win or my opponent wins this turn, and
to X with future payments.

Second: Runner's are nothin', especially when you don't have any.
"Target" runner, also, makes it sound like you can angle you opponent's
Flatline (*and* get yours into play! Keen!) On the other hand,
*Reputation* makes the penalty worth avoiding.

Third: A reusable contact that does this. Ouch. Use the Loan Shark,
then the Hitman or Even Steven to get rid of the debt.. yeuch.

So, I propose a couple of alternates:

Variant 1:

Loan Shark
Type: Location
Cost: 2
Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except Gear/Magic and
Gear/Cyber
cards) from that Runner and place underneath Loan Shark to add an
amount equal to
its deployment cost to your credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay
the deployment cost
of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card on
Visiting Runner.
If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.

This is an expensive way to trade items between runners without tapping
them both at the same time.
This Loan Shark doesn't make much money, but I'd probably use it in a
game (which I wouldn't do if I had to pay, say, double deployment
cost). Right now there's no way to steal gear from opponents, so it's
safe that way (otherwise, steal and frag, steal and frag..) Not sure
how it would hangle the Egg of NERPS Ku, however.

Another close variation is to play a card onto Loan Shark from your
hand, and pay double to get it into play, which also seems very
workable.

Might also force a loss of Reputation (either total deployment cost,
including the Location's, or a flat five rep per card) when Loan Shark
is trashed.

Variant 2:
Playing the Odds
Type: Special
Cost: 0
Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your credstick
phase to add a token
to Playing the Odds. As a stinger, you may trash Playing to Odds and
add 6Y to your
credstick for each token on Playing the Odds.

Not very exciting: you sacrifice a definite pay-off for a potentially
larger one; if your opponents don't play with LotI, though, you're
always going to win. Sucks for Fame decks, too. Other possibilities:
Skip your Legwork or Shadowrun phase, each time adding a token.

Variant 3:

Blood Debt
Type: Special
Cost: 3Y
Text: Play on a Yakuza Runner you control. Turn that Runner and add an
amount equal to its deployment cost to your credstick.
(a) Pay twice deployment cost to unturn (ugh)
(b) Pay deployment cost during next Legwork or trash/frag runner
(c) Upkeep: 1. Instead of paying this upkeep, you may choose to lose
an amount of
Reputation equal to card's deployment cost.
(d) Trash Runner and add deployment cost to credstick (or, frag Runner
and add twice..)
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 08:41:50 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Some card ideas
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> > Ritual Sorcery
> > Type: Special
> > Cost: 3
> > Notes: Turn Runner you control with Sorcery to inflict X damage on any
> > Runner in play. X = Sorcery + 1.

> Nice, but as much as I think we need some direct damage, this looks
> a little cheap...I'd say go to 4 or 5.

4 or 5 for, what, 2 or 3 damage? (So far as I know there's no Sorcery-3
Runners out there.. and if they were, you're bloody turning him, he's no
longer useful that round..)

This is actually verrrry close to a card in my subby to FASA:

Ritual Sending (Combat)
Type: Special (Stinger)
Cost: 5
Text: Play whenever a Runner is wounded or pulls out of a shadowrun.
Turn any number of mages to deal X AP damage to that Runner, where X is
the total of the mages' sorcery skill.

It even has a built-in material link!
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:50:58 -0400
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Michel Racicot <harlequin@*********.CA>
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium
> >pistol also acts as body armor?

Not a body armor... but a really good defensive pistol...
offensives pistols are those with a great firepower but a very bad
recoil... but defensives ones would be much more accurate and much more
able to «defend» yourself...

that's my point of view...

Michel Racicot aka Harlequin
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:29:52 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Fourth batch o' questions
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michel Racicot wrote:
> =

> > >3. Why is the Beretta +2/_+1_ ? Does this indicate that this medium=

> > >pistol also acts as body armor?
> =

> Not a body armor... but a really good defensive pistol...
> offensives pistols are those with a great firepower but a very bad
> recoil... but defensives ones would be much more accurate and much more=

> able to «defend» yourself...
> =

> that's my point of view...

T'heck with that -- it's such a cool pistol it makes you *feel* tougher!

Actually, from what I remember of discussions on Iam Fleming, the
Beretta's a pretty wimpy pistol, compared with most others (and I'll
eliminate to Desert Eagle .50 cal beforehand).
=========================================================================
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 11:11:37 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Neil Fathulla <fathullan@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Card Ideas
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Hi all!

How about this for a stinger?!

Karma Gain
Type: Special (Stinger)
Cost: ?
Text: Reverse last action.

The idea behind this card is that an action from any player can be reversed.=

So if your runner has just been trashed than this card stops that. If y=
our
opponent gains an objective than they must return it and the rep points. =
If
someone rolls 4+ on LOTI then the special card remains in play.

I haven't decided if this should be a unique for 0 cost or a standard card =
with
cost 5.


Comments are appreciated.


Regards
Neil
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:13:58 -0500
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: "Adam \"Augurer\" Ormond" <augurer@*********.NET>
Subject: Re: Who's Who
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >- Age: 17
> >- Geographical location: Naperville, IL (Near Chicago)
> >- Email addy: Augurer@*********.net
> >- Links to SRTCG page or online trade lists: None
> >- Personal quote or SRTCG tip: I have seen the future and it is just
like the present, only longer.

Augurer
=========================================================================
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 10:47:26 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Card Ideas
MIME-Version: 1.0
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> How about this for a stinger?!
> Karma Gain

And some folks think GAQS is a broken card.... eeeeesh. No. Karma
Gain this idea, chummer.

Sorry, I'm in a negative mood.


-Matt
=========================================================================
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:03:40 -0700
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
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From: Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: Card Ideas
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

---Neil Fathulla <fathullan@*******.COM.AU> wrote:
>
> Hi all!
>
> How about this for a stinger?!
>
> Karma Gain
> Type: Special (Stinger)
> Cost: ?
> Text: Reverse last action.
>
> The idea behind this card is that an action from any player can be
reversed.
> So if your runner has just been trashed than this card stops that.
If your
> opponent gains an objective than they must return it and the rep
points. If
> someone rolls 4+ on LOTI then the special card remains in play.
>
> I haven't decided if this should be a unique for 0 cost or a
standard card with
> cost 5.
>
>
> Comments are appreciated.
>
>

In general I tend to dislike "counter spell" cards, especially when
they are as general as this one. So maybe I'm against the basic
nature of this card. However, it is a basic in most (if not all) card
games and I agree that we need some more counter action cards.
Although the timing issues will start to get a bit tricky. I would
prefer to see ones that are more specific though, such as preventing a
gear or runner card from coming into play.

With that aside I think the wording "action" is too general for
playability. For instance in the example given above, taking the
objective, is that the action itself. Does this negate the entire
run? Should all the challenges be returned? In which case should all
the runners who died on the run be returned to play? If it is just
the final action of taking the objective itself, what about runners
that die while facing the final requirement? Are they still in the
trash or are they returned to play?

Sorry for being so critical I think a card like this will cause more
problems that it solves though.
Just my $0.02,
Forrest
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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 12:33:49 +1000
Reply-To: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
<SRCARD@********.ITRIBE.NET>
Sender: Shadowrun Trading Card Game Discussion
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From: Neil Fathulla <fathullan@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Card Ideas
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Hey no need to apoligise. I'm a big boy now ;P. My thinking behind th=
is is
that it gives players a chance if they are behind or to kick another when t=
hey
are down. It is also meant to be fun. Broken? I do not know. If i=
t is
unique would you still consider it broken?


Regards
Neil



MIME:mbreton @ IX.NETCOM.COM
22/09/97 11:59
To: -:SRCARD @ LISTPROC.ITRIBE.NET@********
cc: (bcc: Neil Fathulla/CEGELEC)
Subject: Re: Card Ideas

> How about this for a stinger?!
> Karma Gain

And some folks think GAQS is a broken card.... eeeeesh.
No. =
Karma
Gain this idea, chummer.

Sorry, I'm in a negative mood.


-Matt
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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:41:58 -0700
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From: Nemein formerly Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
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---Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
>
[snip]
> Variant 1:
>
> Loan Shark
> Type: Location
> Cost: 2
> Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except
> Gear/Magic and Gear/Cyber cards) from that Runner and place
underneath
> Loan Shark to add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your
> credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay the deployment cost
> of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card
> on Visiting Runner.
> If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.
>
[snip]
I kind of like this one, but wouldn't it make more sense to call it
Pawn Shop? Minor point I know, but I think it is more appropriate :-)



>
> Variant 2:
> Playing the Odds
> Type: Special
> Cost: 0
> Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your
> credstick phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. As a stinger,
you > may trash Playing to Odds and add 6Y to your credstick for each
token > on Playing the Odds.
>
[snip]
Personally I think 6 might be a bit much for each token. Atleast for
now there still aren't enough ways to remove cards that are currently
in play. If you really want to make it "Playing the Odds" how about
this:

Playing the Odds
Special
0Y
Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their credstick
phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll a
d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each token
on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total between all
winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly divided. Trash
Playing the Odds after roll.

This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing that
might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this would
prevent loaded dice from being used.



> Variant 3:
>
> Blood Debt
> Type: Special
> Cost: 3Y
> Text: Play on a Yakuza Runner you control. Turn that Runner
and add an
> amount equal to its deployment cost to your credstick.
[snip]
> (d) Trash Runner and add deployment cost to credstick (or,
> frag Runner and add twice..)
>
I kind of like this option, but then again it is similar to the
Retirement card that I sent out the other day (that was a general
remove runner, give controller Y equal to runner's deployment cost).


Here's my contribution to the "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money" thread.

Black Credstick
Gear/Misc.
0Y
Whenever gear is played on runner holding Black Credstick add a token
to Black Credstick and roll a d6. If the roll is equal to or less
than the number of tokens on Black Credstick trash the runner and all
gear they are holding, and the gear card being played. If the roll is
greater than the number of tokens, you get credit towards the purchase
equal to the roll. For instance if the gear card costs 4Y and the
roll is 3Y, you only have to pay 1Y. If the roll is greater than the
cost of the card, you get the gear for free, but you do not get any of
the other Y.

That's the long and short of it. It gets a bit wordy but I want to
make sure all the basic sitautions are covered by the card itself.
Let me know what you think.



Forrest
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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:55:43 -0700
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From: Nemein formerly Forrest <eness@**********.COM>
Subject: My little corner of the web
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I just finished setting up a site on geocities to support my card
habit :-) The Shadowrun page is the only one that has really had any
work done on it yet though. Anyway, the address is:

www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3056/cards.html - generic card page
www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/3056/srccg.html - Shadowrun card page

In the tradition of all novice web authors I ahem... "borrowed" things
from other people's sites. Most of it is generic enough (gifs and
what not) that I don't think it should be a problem. There are a
couple of links to other people's sites (mainly the Black Hammer
project, the SRcard mail list home page, and the "usual" link to
FASA). If this causes a problem with any of the owners please let me
know and I'll change it.

Beyond that there isn't much to it at the moment. I have all 8 decks
that I've created so far on there (most of them are untested though).
I also have the usual "have/want" lists.

Along with the premire of the web site, I'm changing my handle on the
list to Nemein (nemein@*********.com is the email address associated
with the site, which actually forward mail to my rocketmail account).
For those that are into useless trivia (or ancient languages) nemein
is the Greek root word for nomad (which was, of course, already taken
on geocities).

Later!
Forrest

BTW after this message I'll change the annoying Nemein formerly
Forrest thing in the name field.







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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 22:01:32 -0500
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From: Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: FASA Questions

1. Media chick: She can be used more than once per turn, but can you
spend 5 nuyen on her to risk a +/- 50 point change in reputation?
(please say no!)

2. Ambidexterious/Melee Weapons: Now that Hand Razors add Melee skill
to Attack value for each one, does a Runner with Ambidexterity and two
Katanas add the value in twice?

3. When is a Runner considered present or in play when certain events
happen? On the table, on the run, in the safehouse, or what?

4. Why the pumpability differences on some Runners, i.e. only one pump
for Bam Bam, but unlimited for Stiletto or Tin Man? Let's have some
continuity...

Loki, if you could hold these for our favorite experts, I would
appreciate it.

Thanx!

Argent
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Date: Mon, 22 Sep 1997 13:25:03 +1000
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From: Neil Fathulla <fathullan@*******.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: Card Ideas
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Hey, you only learn from accepting constructive criticism. Your points a=
re
valid and yes the wording is intentionally general. Timing Issues? I
subscribe to the "What is so difficult about using GAQS?" school. So may=
be
that is why the wording is general. But to answer your queries. The i=
dea is
that if an opponent meets the requirements and takes the objective on their=

turn and another player plays Karma Gain than that objective and the rep po=
ints
are returned. So it affetcs the last action. Now there are two ways t=
o handle
this.

1. Shadowrun ends. Next turn please.

OR

2. Shadowrun can continue. This means that the requirements have to be=
met
again. With most objectives it would be useless playing Karma Gain but w=
ith
others watch out.

I feel that this card or something similar would be fun but I believe it sh=
ould
be limited. That's why I am leaning to making it a unique. A one off =
stinger
that MAY or MAY NOT change the game situation.


REgards
Neil



MIME:eness @ ROCKETMAIL.COM
22/09/97 12:43
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cc: (bcc: Neil Fathulla/CEGELEC)
Subject: Re: Card Ideas


<<snip>>

With that aside I think the wording "action" is too general for
playability. For instance in the example given above, taking the
objective, is that the action itself. Does this negate the entire
run? Should all the challenges be returned? In which case should all
the runners who died on the run be returned to play? If it is just
the final action of taking the objective itself, what about runners
that die while facing the final requirement? Are they still in the
trash or are they returned to play?

Sorry for being so critical I think a card like this will cause more
problems that it solves though.
Just my $0.02,
Forrest
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 12:50:58 -0700
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From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: FASA Questions
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> 1. Media chick: She can be used more than once per turn, but can you
> spend 5 nuyen on her to risk a +/- 50 point change in reputation?
> (please say no!)

All effects are "pumpable" multiple times unless it says so on the card
(thinking - Bam Bam, Clutch). In most cases, you're working upwards
from zero, so the Reputation loss isn't really a loss..

All the Chick does is ensure your 'pone is going to hit you with a GAW
or Wild Goose Chase, anyways.

Can The Fat Man use another player's Chick to bump up his own player's
run? That seems to be the case..

> 2. Ambidexterious/Melee Weapons: Now that Hand Razors add Melee skill
> to Attack value for each one, does a Runner with Ambidexterity and two
> Katanas add the value in twice?

Hmm. Each Katana would add Melee to the damage done, but not twice
melee. In other words, an Ambidextrous Hatchetman with two Katanas
would do 4 (base) + [2 (katana) +1 (melee)] + [2 (katana) + 1 (melee)]
for a grand total of 10 damage.

They may, of course, disallow two Katanas, since it's pretty clumsy
using two at once IRL (but not impossible - I've seen it done.)

> 3. When is a Runner considered present or in play when certain events
> happen? On the table, on the run, in the safehouse, or what?

Consider there to be two separate areas: the "safehouse" area and the
"shadowrun" area (Locations may or may not count as a separate area -
you go out of the safehouse to visit them (GAQS), but I'm not sure if
you're considered away from the safehouse for the entire turn (so as to
avoid Adam Bomb - now *there's* a Runner that oughtta be antisocial!)
A Runner can pretty much be in one or the other, but not both - and at
the end of your turn, all your Runners return to the safehouse --
Abducted being excepted, of course.

Any specific cases you want answered?

> 4. Why the pumpability differences on some Runners, i.e. only one pump
> for Bam Bam, but unlimited for Stiletto or Tin Man? Let's have some
> continuity...

Ask the DLOHs. I guess with Bam Bam they were just trying to keep the
number of Shivans down (think of Bam Bam as a Dragon Whelp :) ).
Stiletto makes some sense, as you might add the skill to different
runners (cuts down on the GAQ-ability of that run!) and I really can't
imagine seeing more than 6Y being spent that way, anyways. Tin Man is
actually a pretty weak card, even in a money-rich deck.

All imho, as always.
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Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 20:28:59 -0700
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---Tony Rabiola <rabiola@**.NETCOM.COM> wrote:

I know you are waiting for the "real" answers, but what are mail lists
worth if not to share opinions :-)


>
> 1. Media chick: She can be used more than once per turn, but can
you
> spend 5 nuyen on her to risk a +/- 50 point change in reputation?
> (please say no!)
>
I think somebody had used this as part of their 2nd round "killer"
combo. Personally I would like to see this limited to once per run as
well.



> 2. Ambidexterious/Melee Weapons: Now that Hand Razors add Melee
> skill to Attack value for each one, does a Runner with Ambidexterity
> and two Katanas add the value in twice?
>
I would say the answer to this one is yes, they both get the bonuses.
As you mention below it is nice to have continuity, and there is
really no basis for allowing one bonus, but not the other. The same
sort of thing applies to Extended Clip and Flatline (or better yet,
Flatline with Extended Clips :-) Now who was having a problem with
Lord Torgo?)




> 3. When is a Runner considered present or in play when certain
events
> happen? On the table, on the run, in the safehouse, or what?
>

I think pretty much it depends upon the event that is happening. For
instance, it Adam Bomb goes off while on a run, everyone who is
considered to be on the run physically (therefore eliminating deckers)
will take the damage. When the Delayed Time Bomb goes off, everyone
who is considered present in the safehouse (not at a location or on a
run) will take the damage. Ones that are more generally worded, such
as Tempest, effect every runner on the table. Not sure if that
answers the question or not though.



> 4. Why the pumpability differences on some Runners, i.e. only one
> pump for Bam Bam, but unlimited for Stiletto or Tin Man? Let's have
> some continuity...
>

I've been trying to word an answer for this one, but it always comes
back to saying "that's the way it is". I guess in my mind it makes
sense but it's hard to explain without sounding goofy :-)

Just my $0.02. I've been wrong before, and I'll be wrong again though.
Later!
Forrest
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:09:52 -0700
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From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: Re: Cards that give money (was: Re: greetings/new card idea)
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> > Variant 1:

> > Loan Shark
> > Type: Location
> > Cost: 2
> > Text: Turn visiting runner. Take any Gear card (except
> > Gear/Magic and Gear/Cyber cards) from that Runner and place
> underneath Loan Shark to add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your
> > credstick. Turn a visting runner and pay the deployment cost
> > of any card (plus one yen) underneath Loan Shark to play that card
> > on Visiting Runner.
> > If Loan Shark leaves play, frag all cards underneath Loan Shark.

> [snip]
> I kind of like this one, but wouldn't it make more sense to call it
> Pawn Shop? Minor point I know, but I think it is more appropriate :-)

Actually, looking back on it, it makes more sense to call it The
Warehouse. Virtually the same effect. The Loan Shark/Pawn Shop lets
you clear out cards you won't ever need *and* get paid for it, sigh.
I'll have to change this to one of the variants.

> > Variant 2:
> > Playing the Odds
> > Type: Special
> > Cost: 0
> > Text: Play during your credstick phase. You may skip your
> > credstick phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. As a stinger,
> > you may trash Playing to Odds and add 6Y to your credstick for each
> > token on Playing the Odds.

> [snip]
> Personally I think 6 might be a bit much for each token. Atleast for
> now there still aren't enough ways to remove cards that are currently
> in play. If you really want to make it "Playing the Odds" how about
> this:

Hmm. LotI is a definite one; someone else winning is another
possibility. 6Y makes it worthwhile if you have a Rocker or two in play,
since (skipping your Credstick phase) you don't get their bonus. Also
useless if you have a lot of Primes in play. Honestly, I wouldn't skip
my credstick phase for *less* than 6Y a turn. Works a bit too well,
however, when you have a way of drawing lots of cards. Maybe bump up
the inital cost?

I need to make a Kobold deck for SRTCG.

> Playing the Odds
> Special
> 0Y
> Play during your credstick phase. Add a token to Playing the Odds
> when it first comes into play. Each player may skip their credstick
> phase to add a token to Playing the Odds. During controllers next
> credstick phase the controller must specify highest/lowest or a
> specific number 1-6. Each player that contributed a token may roll a
> d6. The winner of the roll (as specified above) get 6Y for each token
> on Playing the Odds. If there is a tie divide the total between all
> winners, discarding anything that can't be evenly divided. Trash
> Playing the Odds after roll.

> This way you get in on the roll for free (so if noone else
> participates you get 6Y). You also get to specify the winning
> conditions so depending upon how lucky you feel. The only thing that
> might be worth adding is a phrase "unmodified roll", this would
> prevent loaded dice from being used.

It's a bit wordy, and it doesn't sound like the owner automatically wins
(maybe I just misunderstand.) *And* I like the thought of using Loaded
Dice in this context. There shouldn't be any exceptions to LD in my
mind.

> > Variant 3:

> > Blood Debt
> > Type: Special
> > Cost: 3Y
> > Text: Play on a Yakuza Runner you control. Turn that Runner
> > and add an amount equal to its deployment cost to your credstick.
> [snip]
> > (d) Trash Runner and add deployment cost to credstick (or,
> > frag Runner and add twice..)

> I kind of like this option, but then again it is similar to the
> Retirement card that I sent out the other day (that was a general
> remove runner, give controller Y equal to runner's deployment cost).

I'll fess up: I added (d) after seeing the Retirement card. It was only
one of many options, of course. Kind of like the Yakuza angle, though
that's not effective until the Underworld expansion comes out.

> Here's my contribution to the "mo' money, mo' money, mo' money" thread.

> Black Credstick
> Gear/Misc.
> 0Y
> Whenever gear is played on runner holding Black Credstick add a token
> to Black Credstick and roll a d6. If the roll is equal to or less
> than the number of tokens on Black Credstick trash the runner and all
> gear they are holding, and the gear card being played. If the roll is
> greater than the number of tokens, you get credit towards the purchase
> equal to the roll. For instance if the gear card costs 4Y and the
> roll is 3Y, you only have to pay 1Y. If the roll is greater than the
> cost of the card, you get the gear for free, but you do not get any of
> the other Y.

> That's the long and short of it. It gets a bit wordy but I want to
> make sure all the basic sitautions are covered by the card itself.
> Let me know what you think.
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Date: Sat, 20 Sep 1997 13:17:37 -0700
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From: Matb <mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM>
Organization: Tin Roses
Subject: [DESIGN]: Card Ideas - Karma Gain
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> Hey, you only learn from accepting constructive criticism. Your points are
> valid and yes the wording is intentionally general. Timing Issues? I
> subscribe to the "What is so difficult about using GAQS?" school. So maybe
> that is why the wording is general. But to answer your queries. The idea is
> that if an opponent meets the requirements and takes the objective on their
> turn and another player plays Karma Gain than that objective and the rep points
> are returned. So it affetcs the last action. Now there are two ways to handle
> this.

> 1. Shadowrun ends. Next turn please.

> OR

> 2. Shadowrun can continue. This means that the requirements have to be met
> again. With most objectives it would be useless playing Karma Gain but with
> others watch out.

Hmm.. which ones do you have in mind? With all Runners, Challenges,
and yen being restored, it seems destined that the same thing would
happen - all it becomes is a glorified Astral Sense (the player now
knows that his 'pone has a Rough Night in his hand, so he has to pump up
Tin Man 2Y more.)

Any Objectives that you have in mind? I'm at a loss to name one. (I
could build more than a few to meet spec, of course...)

> I feel that this card or something similar would be fun but I believe it should
> be limited. That's why I am leaning to making it a unique. A one off stinger
> that MAY or MAY NOT change the game situation.

I'm drawing a blank, but wasn't there a MtG card that "reset" a player
back to the beginning of his turn? -- It had loads of problems
concering player's memories, iirc (as in, "FastJack only had one damage
on him, not two!)