From:	Loki <daddyjim@**********.COM>
Subject:	Re: My GAQ Solution (LONG)
Date:	Mon, 15 Sep 1997 18:45:03 -0700

---Forrest wrote:
>
>
> I'm sending this to you personally first in order to not waste more
> bandwidth on the dead horse :-) If you think it is worth forwarding
> on please do or let me know and I will....

I'll reply via the list, as this is still continuing an existing
thread and others may want to be involved.

> ---Loki wrote:
> >
> > ---Forrest wrote:
> > >
> > > This of course also means that Red Widow and the Rapier can't be
> used
> > > to bring runners in to help on the sleaze. They can be brought
in
> to
> > > help with combat, but if they aren't there when the challenge is
> > > exposed, their skills aren't there either :-)
> >
> > I disagree here. I see filling in the holes of skills needed for
> > sleaze as being one of the reasons for using Red Widow or a Yamaha
> > Rapier. I have four of her in my deck because of this. :o)
> >
> > I guess think of it this way: The Runner teams looks down from
their
> > vantage point on the hill and sees the Manitcores roaming around
the
> > crop grounds they're about to move on. Realizing they need another
> > member with stealth to get past them, they bring in Red Widow (or
> > whoever with the bike).
> >
> > Also from the Game Q&A:
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > Q. Is there any specific timing as to when Red Widow can be turned
to
> > join a Shadowrun in progess? As soon as a challenege is revealed?
> > Before the next challenge is revealed? When factoring damage in a
> > fight?
> >
> > A. Whenever you want.
> > ~~~~~~~~
>
> The problem with this, as I see it, is what I tried to outline with
my
> previous (long) post. You have rulings like this on some of the
> cards, but yet for Archie McDeven it was stated that that he can't
> turn to prevent another runner from turning to go on a run. Nor can
> Sticky Fingers be used to take money "before" it is spent. So what
we
> are developing are multiple timing rules based on what phase of the
> game you are in...

But you can use Archie to keep a player's from going on a Shadowrun.
This comes from the Game Q&A:

~~~~~~~~~~
Q.Can a runner with a special ability be turned to use their ability
as a Stinger, in other words at any time? For example Archie McDeven's
3 nu yen to turn an unturned player, or Tempest's ability to damage
all runners.

A.Yes, Yes. =)

Q.One question arose whether you could use Archie to turn an oponent's
runner during their legwork phase to keep said runner from going on a
Shadowrun that turn? Obviously you can use Archie on your turn,
turning that remaining runner your opponent left to intercept your
Shadowrun, but can you use such abilities outside of your turn?

A.You sure can use them during an opponents turn. I would advise doing
it during one of their 'pre-Legwork' phases so that it can't be
contested (ie; He wants to use Moonlighting and you want to turn him
with Archie).
~~~~~~~~~~

I don't see this makes any more a specialized ruling for Archie than
any other like cards.

This issue about Sticky Fingers in retro taking nu yen paid to deploy
a card is also in the Game Q&A:

~~~~~~~~~~
Q.Slight timing question. According to the rulebook, if two people
want to play cards at the same time, the person whose turn it is goes
first. My friend has a decker, which I believe states "Turn to steal 1
nuyen from your opponent, yadda yadda yadda". Anyways, during my
friends turn, he decides to go on a run (without this runner), and I
have just enough nuyen to play Green Apple Quickstep, and I declare to
play it. He then responds by turning his decker, and saying "Alright,
I will take one of your nuyen, you can no longer play the card, and it
is discards". Is this really what happens? We are REALLY confused on
this one. Can you respond or back up an action? Can cards "fizzle" if
you no longer can pay the cost?

A.When you payed to deploy Green Apple Quicksteps, it beacme too late
for the Decker's Sticky Fingers program to "counter" it. The Decker
can't take Y you've already spent!
~~~~~~~~~~

In this instance the money was spent to put out the card, it's gone.
You can't steal money that isn't there. If the player had wanted to be
safe and keep his opponent from possibly playing a special that could
affect his shadowrun he should've thought about it and used Sticky
Fingers or Ice Queen to deplete his opponent's nu yen supply ahead of
time.

> OK thinking about it now I can see that. So if you want to "phase"
it
> or something it would break down like this:
>
> Shadowrun phase
>
> - Player A declares a run
> - Player B can play specials that would eliminate runners from going
> on the run
> - Player A turns runners who are going on the run
> - Player B again gets to respond if desired (?)
> - Player A declares if they are continuing to the next challenge
> - Player A declares they are continuing the run
> - Player B response
> - Player A flips over the challenge and sees what it is
> - Player B response
> - Player A can move runners (Red Widow, Yamaha, whatever)
> - Player B response
> - Player A decides to sleaze or face the challenge
> - Player B response
> - Player A goes into combat if applicable
> - Player B response (?)
> - Player A resolves combat
> - Player B response
> - After all challenges Player A decides whether or not to continue on
> to the objective
> - Player B response
> - Requirements for the objective are "examined"
> - Player A decides to move runners
> - Player B response
> - Player A resolves requirements
> - Player B response (? - not sure how much use this one would be)
>
>
> So essentially for every step A takes B can have a response before
> anything happens. This is only during the shadow run though, or I
> guess most applicable during the shadow run. So what it essentially
> boils down to is in order to keep the "timing" rules simple we are
> going to have a different ruling for every card and/or sequence of
> play :-)

That's a long-winded way of saying it, but yes that is how I see it.
For every action, your opponent at least has the opportunity for a
reaction. Not just during the shadowrun phase either, LotI and Deja Vu
can affect die rolls during your opponents turn or GAQS can also be
used to keep a runner from "visiting" a location.

> In all honesty, personally this has never come up in play, yet. I
> have a feeling though if these types of questions aren't answered
> before tournament play begins, it is going to be a nightmare, which
> just might kill the game :(

I have a feeling that is exactly why we haven't seen the tournament
rules posted to the FASA page yet. :o)

BTW I've been romancing Skuzzy, Jim and Lou over at FASA. I have my
foot in the door for Judging an SRTCG tournament at Gen Con '98.
Anyone from the list possibly thinking of going that may be interested
in such a thing?

-== Loki ==-
_____________________________________________________________________
Sent by RocketMail. Get your free e-mail at http://www.rocketmail.com