| From: | Bradley Aaron Rebh <brebh@*****.BGSU.EDU> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: Specials Trashed? |
| Date: | Sat, 21 Mar 1998 12:07:44 -0500 |
> In a message dated 98-03-21 02:57:12 EST, you write:
>
> <<
> well, I think that specials with permanent effects stay in play... I mean,
> how would you remember the effect if the card wasn't there to remind you? I
> think it just makes since to keep the card out where you can see it...
You can always dig through your discard pile if you forget. Also, as it's
been mentioned before, tokens, little scraps of paper with the stats
changes on them and anything else can be used to mark the card of what it
is.
> >For the most part, the above statement makes since. However, cards like
> >Sudden Gobblinization and what not have permanent effects. Now do
> >these cards get discarded, with you having to remember that they were
> >played? I always thought that it was obvious they stayed in play.
>
> I'm gonna have to put you in one half :-) Sudden Goblinization needs to go
> away for one reason - Luck o' the Irish. With Luck, which can target any
> special in play, you can un-goblinize a runner. That makes NO sense, so
> while the EFFECTS of Sudden Goblinization last forever, the card needs to
> go away (use a token or something to represent the goblinization)
If SG stayed in play, you could then argue that LotI would stay in play
also, which would mean you can LotI a Loti that has SG played on them to
remake them a Troll. Neither LotI nor SG say trash after played, but it's
pretty obvious to me that they would.
> I have to agree with Skeeter, the card stays out. But, Jon brings up an
> interesting point....
>
> Th answer: Agree before hand that LotI cannot affect "permanent effect"
> specials already in play. (Then try to get FASA to address the issue in
> future printings)
In underworld, FASA has seemed to adapt the phrase, "Play on target
runner," this to me seems to indicate the card should stay on the runner
permanently or at least until the effect is resolved.
For instance, Outstanding Performance says, "Play on target runner that is
present....increase one existing skill on target runner by +1 until the
end of the game." It could be argued that because it says "Play on target
runner..." the card is attached to the runner permanently. but...
On the other hand, Stripdown says "Play on target runner" The effect of
Stripdown allows the runner to use the ability until the end of the turn.
If the card is attached to the runner like some say SG should be, is the
runner allow to trash cyberware throughout the turn to gain the +
athletics or must they trash it all during the instant the card is played
(knee-jerk reaction says they must trash all cyber immediately and
Stripdown is trashed also).
Similarly, would a Rough Night remain attached to a runner even though the
effect is over at the end of the turn? When can you know when to trash a
special/stinger.
Similarly, (I know we left Stingers and entered Specials, but they're the
same besides the rule of when they can be played) a Bear Totem says, "Play
on target shaman" but should the card remain attached?
Also, Gang affiliations, they remain in play right? It says right on the
card, Player may only have one gang affiliation in play at a time (or
something close).
Unstable Ally says, "Play on target Anti-Social runner..." but should it
stay in play even though the effect resolves immediately? I'd say no.
There are a few answers, but FASA will obviously have the final say.
1. Stingers are always trashed, Specials are attached at least until the
effect is over.
2. Frag all special/stingers after they've been played, this will make
the attachment of the card symbolic if anything since the card can't be
brought back int play, though it makes LotI almost worthless.
3. Any permanent effect (ie-+1 to a skill, bonuses to stats, gang
affiliations) is attached the runner or remains in play, any other is
trashed.
4. A list can be made to errata each special indicating which stay in
play, which don't.
All of this brings up another question, can LotI cancel Totems and Gang
Affiliations? I would say yes since they're specials. I guess that isn't
too much of a problem, just sounds sort of goofy to me.
What does everyone else think?
-----------------------------------------
Bradley Aaron Rebh
brebh@*****.bgsu.edu
http://art.bgsu.edu/~rebh
920 E.Wooster #4
Bowling Green, OH 43402
419.353.2405
-----------------------------------------
