From:	Hansen <hansen@********.COM.SG>
Subject:	Re: Card Cost formulas and over power cards
Date:	Mon, 6 Jul 1998 15:45:38 +0800

>Hoi Chummers,
>
> Ive noticed that there has been alot of discussion on card
>costs and what is fair and "game balanced"... I personally don't
>like that phrase and don't normally consider it when I create a card.

Why not everything has a price. usually something that is more effective or
versatile
will cost more than something that isn't in real life, so why should the
game be any different?

>Because there are no so many ways of getting rid of any card put onto
>the table, that everything has its own checks and balances, in some form
>or another. First off if something is powerfull... like torgo,
>squaaaaark, false mentor, and Sleep, The card is made rare.

I really don't think that the rarity sorting should be based on 'power' of
the card. In other games, rares usually 1) do something that rules normally
don't permit. (False Mentor); 2) represent powerful characters or important
items and events in the storyline that are unique (Torgo and the rest of the
Prime Runners); 3) resources that are scarce to locate in the story
(Cyborgs, Cannons, etc); 4) have a long and complex, but not necessarily
useful, ability (Tactics : Converge); 5) global effects that affect
everything in play (Tempest, Riots).

No card game put all their power cards as rares. Any game that does that
will not last very long. Almost every game that has at least some power
commons or at least as fixed cards in starters (e.g. in SRTCG : Stomper; in
M:TG : Lightning Bolt; in L5R : Rallying Cry; in B5CCG : Level the Playing
Field; in ME:TW : Gandalf; in Netrunner : Jack n' Joe; in V:TES : Force of
Will) without these cards, the game will degenerate into a 'rich boy game'
where only those with money can afford to play competitively.

>This way it is unlikely that the average player will have more than two.
>Next cards come out like LOTI (a common) - cancel that really nasty stinger
thats
>going to really mess you up, or Jade (I don't care if you got torgo on
>the table... he isn't doing anything cause hes turned.) Or poor
>craftsmanship - bye bye katana on stomper.

This class of cards have been called by old gamers as hosers. They are very
effective if your opponent is playing a type of cards, but if he isn't
they're totally useless. Almost every game has them.

>Next if something is really a butt kicker you make it unique. This way
there is only one >of the card in the deck.

This isn't necessarily true. Many M:TG cards are 'restricted', meaning that
they are effectively unique, most SRTCG promos are unique, all characters
and fleets in the B5CCG are considered unique unless otherwise stated (in
B5CCG, unique means that it can only be brought into play once), Battletech
has unique 'Mechs like the Widowmaker and unique characters like Melissa
Davion Steiner, L5R has almost all power items and characters unique also.
But these cards are still being sought after and used extensively because
they generate an effect that is still worthwhile despite the 'unique'
hinderence.

>The next form of checks and balances (and this is
>something that I really like about this game) are the challenges. Some
>of the challenges have real nasty side effects that can desimate a
>muscle, sleaze, or overpowered team (ever run into minefild with six
>runners or about to take the last challenge and its chomps2000 or
>maglocks.)

This goes into deck design really.... but it's true....

>I also think that more than making a "fair" card players
>should keep in mind the universe that is trying to be portraid here.
>If I create something that involves a dracoform... its going to be tough
>and nasty and most likly take out some of your runners.

Dragons are not that tough if you know where to hit them... Anyway the
Guardian Dracoform is very powerful but has some drawbacks to conteract it.

>If I create a troll runner, its going to have armor and its going to have a
high body,
>but it may not cost a ton, because why should their asking price be
>higher than an elf who has no armor, a low body, but usefull skills. If
>I create a generic corporate goon, its going to turn into cannon fodder
>even with a small running team. I also think that so far the mages and
>shamans have had a bad draw. Sure their spells are nice, and they have
>some cool spirits, but they don't convey the raw defestating and
>fearfull power that mages do in the Shadowrun universe. So I tend to
>make my mages cost less and give them some cool abilities to make up for
>that. (so shoot me)


This is THE problem with SRTCG. If all trolls were like the ones in the
cards, trolls would rule the earth. Magic is weak (Shouldn't fireball and
the other blast type spells be armor peircing? Read the SR2 rulebook about
combat spells). Elves are all pantsy weed eaters, like the type that help
Santa make toys. In the SR2, an elf with a gun is just about as dangerous as
a troll with a gun - very dangerous.

<SNIP card cost formulae>

>These are just some examples of what I use... like I said, there not
>perfect, but work for the most part. There is one thing that I think
>all of us card designers also take into account, and thats the coolness
>factor. If there is a card that we would like to stand out a little
>from the rest of the pack, we give it something a little different, like
>a neat text ability, or uncommon skill grouping (ie... sorcery and
>conjure), or just lower the cost a little. This is what makes thinking
>up cards fun. Trying to come up with ideas that are unique and that
>some other people might think are cool. We can't please everyone, I
>don't even try. But I do try to be creative and keep within the
>Shadowrun universe, and maybe I'll come up with a winner.

I don't think cost should be very variable. But do consider alternate cost,
eg discarding cost, killing off some of your players, etc, to bring a card
into play. It can make play quite interesting.

>On a side note... I've noticed that alot of the amerindian cards have
>caught some flack for being a little too powerful. I just want to
>remind people, that when the 6th World awoke Mother Earth violently
>stated whos side she was on at 10:32 am on August 17, 2017 with the
>simultanious eruption of four volcanos. Mother earth and the totem
>spirits gave their power and support to the amerindian. Nuff said.
>
>Ok, I'm done ranting now.
>
>*** In ruling, the Sage attends to the heart, not the eye ***
>*** - Tao ***
>
>
>Donald Arganbright
>Jayden Stormwalker
>
>
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