From:	">>>>> Axlrose - ... <<<<<" <axlrose@**********.COM>
Subject:	Parts of 'SRTCG can%$#^&*d? on axlrose,s rant and more' and
Date:	Fri, 2 Oct 1998 10:17:58 -0400

I'm impressed - people are starting to think FASA will cancel the card game
on my words alone. *grin* If that is all it takes to get results in this
world... Well, here is my opinion on what people have posted and further
replies. At least now there is talk about the game, if/when it might or
might not appear on the market. To keep this whole down in length some,
I'll hit the high points of the posts. If I did not include something you
said, don't take offense or anything of that sort. I did read everything
though, so...

Keldor Mor starts the whole thing with :

"I think FASA is making the mistake of treating the CCG like a RPG."

I don't think they are doing that - I think they believe their fan base for
the RPG will automatically slide over to the CCG when the need is required.
FASA's biggest income comes from what - Battletech? I am assuming here
for a moment. Wizard's of the Coast created a card game around their
number one source of income. So possibly they, FASA, thought that they
can take their second biggest source - Shadowrun, and instead of letting an
outside company go with it, create a card game, and loose some creative
control, they decided to attempt to do it all. Now the need arises where
they are spreading themselves thin attempting to cover all bases, but tears
are appearing in the seems. More on this soon...


Donald Arganbright wrote :

"I have noticed a lot of posts lately that people a terrified and a bit
miffed at the set back dates. There is a lot of fear that the game will
die, unless something happens
right NOW. This couldn't be farther from the truth."

There could be some truth in your words, but I'll offer my opinions on the
grand scheme of things. The card game market seems to have been flooded,
especially with all the Magic sets and expansions out there now.
Shadowrun, the card game, is but a small game it seems from what I have
seen. Underworld overall was not that great of an expansion, especially
with the dismal distribution of the Limited Edition not helping.

There are three types of customers FASA has overall (generalization).
There are the customers like Loki (no offense guy) that seem to own, play,
and test play anything and everything from FASA. Then there are customers
like me that are pretty much set-in the Shadowrun genre and that is about
all. Then there are the casual customers for any FASA product. How large
is their core customer base for the Shadowrun RPG, then compare it to the
CCG? The RPG has had 10 years to bring in new customers, increasing its
core base overall. The CCG has not been around that long, so their core
base is much, much smaller obviously. Diehard players like Loki will have
the patience to wait until Corp Wars is eventually released. Because it is
a Shadowrun product, I would purchase the expansion when I get to it. Then
there are the casual players drawn into the game from the Limited, maybe
spurned by what they perceive as something amiss, broken, however they
might see poor distribution and not care when Corp Wars hits, remembering
the past. In a world of instant gratification, if something does not draw
attention to a customer ~now~, chances are dim that the product will catch
their attention again later.

So with this in mind, can FASA afford (not in the monetary sense) to loose
a dwindling customer base until only a core group remains? Continued
delays will push the casual players onto something new, something here
right now; drive people like me to throw up my hands and grumble a lot
about their policies; while Loki-type customers won't really notice as they
are immense in another FASA product altogether.

Continuing what Donald wrote :

"Anyone out there who plays computer, board, card, or RPG games knows that
the gaming industry is nothing if not whoosy on release dates."

This point is true, but each genre of the gaming industry listed above has
a different number of core customer bases. Each is allowed to have
somewhat of a delay in release times due to various reasons, but in the
mean time, there are other products being released to compensate. Going
with the first one and one I am familiar with - computer games - there are
so many good games released now that even if I quit my job, isolated myself
from society for a few years, and just played games day and night, I could
not experience every aspect available in those games. Even one game takes
a while for me to see everything that is there. Now I'll use the card
game. There seems to be only so many ways to play the cards out before it
seems it is basically the same thing over and over again. Magic floods the
market with expansions, so there is a wider variety of cards available, to
cut down the time before the eventual 'I've done this combo before.' Most
people seem to be loosing interest in the Shadowrun CCG because they are at
the above point. People can move on to other card games, but if those
games continue to peek the interest in the player, why should anything new
for Shadowrun bring them back? If the game gets a reputation for
expansions delayed for months on end, a new set of cards ends one delay and
begins another.

And I hope it is apparent that staying with ~only~ one card game is
remedial. That is like saying one will stay with only one type of anything
in life without experiencing the broad range that is available out there.
As I mentioned a few screens back, SRTCG is but a small market slice in a
greater one it seems. FASA does not want to keep fighting for a larger
slice of that pie, someone else will gladly take their's for them.

Even more of what Donald wrote :

"...but come the actual release, they are in line with their money to buy."

This is assuming more towards a core base customer than the casual 'try a
little of this and that and see what is best' one. If the game is out of
sight and out of mind while something else has taken over a customer's
interest, the actual release could mean squat for that lost customer. They
might return to the game upon hearing the news, but there is no guarantee
that they will. Again, FASA can't afford to loose these customers in this
type of market I believe.

Donald wrote a lot of good words :

"...sure some current shadowrun players may give up the game right now in
leu of something else... but come feb-mar when Corp Wars does get released
and they see it on the shelves and in conventions, interest will be
rekindled and they will come back."

The above is a major assumption! (So are my opinions here, but I digress.)
First is the believe that Corp Wars will be released in February-March.
Quite honestly I've heard this song and dance already one too many times.
It was going to make Gen Con, then it is pushed back to what,
September..... then early November, then - bah!!! If FASA wants to
dedicate interest in the RPG and their new idea, Carniverse, then why
should _I_ show interest in their card game now? Why should I bounce my
interest back and forth when they eventually get around to releasing
something? As a customer, FASA needs to keep my interest going on
something they want to sell, or I'll move on. A Loki-type customer might
look at Carniverse as something new from FASA and go with it to keep his
type of interests going. I would look at it and mumble something about not
being Shadowrun and move on to other interests. A casual customer could go
either way. Something else keeps that casual customer's interest going,
releasing Corp Wars will mean nothing.


Donald said enough... Loki wrote :

"They are primarily an RPG company, the CCG is a product line of their's
but it is
secondary to Battletech, Shadowrun, Earthdawn until it's halt and other
game lines they are developing."

I could always ask why then are they starting to dedicate time and money
towards this new Carniverse? They could have used those resources to keep
Earthdawn afloat before it sank and pushed the SRTCG into the demanding
customers hands. It sounds like FASA has lost interest in these areas
while looking at what ~could~ be their next quick influx of revenue. Are
miniatures becoming the next big thing (again)? I thought they had their
moment of fame back in the 80s or something *shrug*.

People's responses of how much FASA was dedicating booth space for their
card game at conventions also seems to say they are loosing interest. If
they were gung-ho over the game still, I would think there would have been
a major push to draw people in with future card expansions, promos
available now, and more stock than the few boxes that seem to have been
there. Again, just my opinion here.

Loki seems to offer as evidence for lost interest in the card game :

"Two new game lines were announced at Gen Con and are probably a big focal
point for them now as well."


Gunnar Lundquist opened up with both guns blazing with :

"...it just kills me to think the company is not giving a damn about a game
that is as
good as this just to promote new stuff that may not make it. I know I
haven't played any of them and I may not if they use this same approach
with all the other stuff out there....."

As I mentioned way above, why should a casual customer try something with
the FASA logo if they did in the past and felt this was FASA's marketing
scheme? That is, release something, show interest in the whole for the
time being, then switch gears and go onto a new area of interest, just to
follow market trends? If anything, why should _I_ wait for Corp Wars while
they seem to not care about it? This is something they should ask
themselves I believe.

Hopefully the game won't croak yet. Except for one demo game by a FASA
representative that seems to not have cared then (A-HA!) about the game, I
never played the silly thing. So many cards collecting dust.....

Sorry for the length, but hell.
>>>>>Axlrose - ...<<<<<