From: | Teos Abadia <tabadia@*********.COM> |
---|---|
Subject: | Re: Vampire ideas and stuff |
Date: | Mon, 14 Dec 1998 09:12:04 -0500 |
> From: Matb [SMTP:mbreton@**.NETCOM.COM]
[Teos Abadia writes] (writing about Donald's cards)
> Regeneration seems okay, although it's also ridiculously strong -- =
and
> of the two guys I spotted who had it, one's a 7/8. I've gone two =
routes
> with cards of my own:
>
> - Remove one damage counter or Virus token during the Refresh phase,
> without needing to turn.
>
> - Remove all damage counters at the /end/ of the turn if the Runner =
is
> unturned.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
Heh. We though along similar lines here.
> Ascension seems for keyed toward being a special; that, or an ability
> common to all Vampires. But I've never been into the White Wolf
> hierarchy of all things fanged - alas, alack; all this talk of elders
> and incarnu means nothing to me.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
I thought Ascension was fine the way it was, and I didn't think White =
Wolf
had to figure into things. To me Vampires have always been on the top =
of
the food chain they are involved in. They seem to stay out of food =
chains
with larger predators.
> One in-general problem that I saw was that nearly all of these were
> buff, buff guys with high skills to boot. Buff isn't bad; high-skill
> isn't bad; but both together create some unbalanced Runners.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
I felt this way as well. One or two of the runners in an expansion =
would be
fine, but as a whole, they are all too powerful. I made my runners too
powerful in my submissions to AEX, no doubt, but my thoughts were that =
only
a few would be used, and that they would probably be weakened (which =
they
correctly were). If all of these Vampires are to be in a set, then I =
would
weaken them further than I suggested.
> Moreover, with a lot of *new* Runners with high skills, it becomes
> tempting in the next expansion to create *new* Challenges with high
> sleaze requirements (so the *new* guys are actually challenged) -- =
and
> this simply means that the *old* Runners are all now =
behind-the-times,
> last-year's-tech -- possibly symbolically important, but, gamewise, a
> very bad maneuver.
[Teos Abadia writes]
Great point. We don't want to make the game one of continual =
escalation.
Clever new combos are good enough a reason to use new cards.
> Vampires, being - well, not-nice - should also have a large drawback
> associated with them: They Need To Feed. /Most/ of the Runners that
> follow have no drawback, and certainly nothing like the lust that =
sounds
> a vampire out into the night.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
Oh, that's a great idea. What do you think, Donald? Could there be an =
all
around detriment for a "Vampire"? Maybe all Vampires must feed at =
least
once every 3 turns. You would have to either have won a R vs. R combat =
or
frag another runner you own to fuel the Vampire.
> > Neerith Davenshade / Prime Vampire / 8/1¥
> 7/4 (A1). Anti-social. Stealth-3. If Neerith is not holding Gear, =
any
> damage (s)he deals is Silenced. Frag a Runner from yuor hand to heal
> Neerith.
> "I kill only for food, health, and pleasure"
>
> My major beef with this Runner was the skills -- two uncommon skills =
at
> extreme levels doth not a balanced card make. Stealth is probably =
the
> more 'in-flavor' of the two skills, and the Challenges that require =
it
> fit in well (notably various security guards, and a Hellhound that =
might
> be influenced.)
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
We thought similarly along the gear lines. I agree with the skill =
change.
>
> > Kilm / Vampire / 7¥
> 4/6. Melee-1, Piloting-1, Streetwise-1. Double the Armor bonus of =
any
> Vehicle Kilm is using.
> "The roar of my engine is more satisfying than my victim's screams"
>
> No real comment on this one; just tidied up the Armor ability. I'd =
like
> to see more Riggers that benefit from using Vehicles, since (except =
the
> Rapier and Yellowjacket) I rarely see any get used. Of course, there
> aren't that many Vehicles in the game -- an oversight that needs
> correcting...
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
As I said, I would clarify further to "Double the Armor bonus to Kilm =
for
any Vehicle Kilm is using." Otherwise Bulldog Van is a little too much =
on
Kilm.
> > Kitar Havensteed / Vampire Assasin / 7¥
> 4/5 (A1). Melee-2. 3¥: Turn Kitar to engage target opponent =
Runner
> with a higher Attack rating in Runner vs. Runner combat. Place a =
+1/+1
> token on Kitar for every runner Kitar kills this way.
> "The strong never pray on the weak... there is no honor in that."
>
> Strangely enough, there was an almost *identical* Runner in Corp War.
>
> But - ditto the thing with Neerith. While it's nice to see guys with
> high skills, someone super-specialized in one skill really shouldn't
> have any others -- Louie da Bruiser and Foxy both fit in this mold;
> Torgo gets away with his nasty upkeep and Fastjack is, well, =
Fastjack.
> But at least Kitar's Melee works against him; at least for his early
> career you won;t want to give him a Katana - but after three or four
> kills, give him the Katana and send him running.
>
> I condensed the language some, and, most dramatically, only assigned =
the
> bonus when Kitar 'assassinated' a Runner - normal R-v-R combat, a la
> Wanted and Bar Fight, wouldn't work. That's not really in flavor, =
but
> seems more balanced.
[Teos Abadia writes]
These changes work as well. I like my idea of the lower body better, =
since
it forces defensive gear rather than just waiting on attack gear.
> > The Turned / Vampire Thug / 2¥
> You may have any number of The Turned in your deck.
>
> A *real* Tanaka.
[Teos Abadia writes]
Or Tenaka after he was bitten! Can you see the card art? This could =
even be
a Zombie runner.
> > Brock Strongfuller / Immortal Vampire / 8/2¥
> 7/8 (A1). Regeneration, Unique. Leadership-2, Melee-2, Social-1. =
If
> Brock is trashed, he is fragged. 4¥: Return Brock to your =
safehouse and
> put a permanent -1/-1 token on him. Play this ability only when he =
is
> fragged.
> "You will never be rid of me or my kind ... We are the strong"
>
> I don't really see the point of having a Runner with both =
Regeneration
> and Stamina; both are going to keep him from feeling damage.
>
> I upped the Upkeep cost; with the high Threat and well-rounded =
skills,
> he deserved it. I altered the return-to-play substantially; as =
written
> previously, it was far, far too expensive. This keeps Brock around, =
but
> makes each regeneration a bit more painful. The 'frag when trashed' =
text
> just makes sure those tokens don't disappear: when he's gone, he's =
gone
> for good.
[Teos Abadia writes]
I still think full Regen is too strong. I like your other ideas. =
Basically,
you can take this 7/8 A1 guy, and he can take 8 points of damage, then =
heal
all of them. That's really ugly! It makes Biotech too unimportant. I
strongly believe it should be limited to one point per turn, and you =
can
have different levels, like Regeneration-2 for this runner.
> > Conrad Uerrentilli / Vampire Decker / 5¥
> 2/4. Decking-1, Technical-1. If Conrad is assisting in a shadowrun =
and
> the alarm is triggered, he immediately jacks out (and may no longer
> assist in the shadowrun).
> "I may be the living dead... but I don't want to die again."
>
> AEX had a (rather) similar Runner, Cobarde, and I found that the =
ability
> to return to the safehouse is actually a positive thing; more than
> keeping out of danger's way, it gives you a sort-of-free Recon.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
A very powerful Recon, I thought! I was wondering if you had noticed =
that!
I didn't until I was playing with him and complaining about my lack of
Recon, then said to myself "wait a minute!" <grin> I otherwise like the
changes. I would lower the above cost to 4.
> Game balance: With two (again, fairly uncommon) skills at high =
levels,
> this guy is going to make sure that the alarm never gets triggered - =
so
> his 'drawback' (which isn't really a drawback anyway) disappears.
>
> First time I've used the phrase 'jack out' for Deckers. I think I =
like
> it.
>
> > Nevell Doceturn / Vampire Rocker / 4¥
> 3/4. Fame-2. Nevell cannot be deployed if you have no vampire =
runners
> in play. Trash Nevell if you have no vampires in play.
> "He only does night concerts... funny how they always get bloody"
>
> Well-balanced. Sort of. Fame-2 is awfully powerful, and this guy is
> only going to be used in a vampire deck - so the requirement and
> drawback really don't mean much. I might change this to:
>
> > Phoebe Rayburne / Vampire Rocker / 4¥
> 3/4. Fame-1. Turn Phoebe Rayburne and frag a non-Vampire Runner you
> control to give Phoebe Fame+1 until the end of the game.
>
> Besides .. who on earth would have a stage name like Nevell Doceturn? =
> :)
[Teos Abadia writes]
Heh. Similar to what I was thinking. I promise to other list members =
that I
did not discuss my previous comments with Matb! Damn, they are =
similar! i
would still lower the threat rating to 2/3.
> > Nosferatu Lair / Location / 2¥
>
> As originally written, vastly, vastly overpowered - a Coffin Hotel =
that
> both protects your Runners better /and/ earns money while doing that.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
I wasn't sure if that was a cost or an earning. I agree that as an =
earning
it is too powerful.
> > Blood Bank / Location / 4¥
> 1¥: Turn a visiting Runner to visit Blood Bank. That Runner takes =
one
> armor-piercing damage. Add a number of Blood tokens to Blood Bank =
equal
> to that Runner's remaining Body.
> 1¥: Turn a Vampire Runner to visit to visit Blood Bank and place a =
Blood
> token from Blood Bank onto that Runner. Runner holding Blood token =
may
> trash it at any time to gain +2/+0 until the end of turn.
> "What flavor wouldya like -- we got dwarf, troll ... "
>
> Changed this around a bit: Every blood bank needs a donor, after all.
>
> That being said, I really don't feel Vampires need to be made any
> tougher.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
I agree with these changes. Cool idea of putting the tokens there. =
Gives
Cherry Bomb something to wait for!
> > The Turning / Special / 2¥
> Deploy onto target runner. Target runner is considered a Vampire =
until
> end of game. You may turn a Vampire Runner you control instead of
> paying the deployment cost.
> "Got blood?"
>
> Upped the base deployment to equal the cost of In The Family and The
> Eternal Vow (and even then, I feel turning into a vampire should cost
> more). Thought about extending the "Turn a Vampire.." clause to =
being a
> set requirement: need a leech to make a leech, after all.
[Teos Abadia writes]
I like the idea of it being a set requirement.
> > Feeding Time / Special / 3¥
> Turn any Vampire Runner in play to attack target Runner in Runner vs.
> Runner combat. If the Vampire Runner had a lower initial Attack =
Rating
> than its opponent and wins, the Vampire gains a +1/+1 Blood token.
>
> Here's a neat twist: Choose any Vampire in play to be your attacking
> Runner. Want to use Bob's Runner to knock off Steve's Deckers? =
Well,
> when the wind screams hunger into your ears, and it's time to =
feed....
>
> There'd be some questions bound to arise, though: Bob's Vamp is still
> Bob's Vamp, meaning he'd have to pay for any Burst Fire rolls, or =
choose
> to use any spells his Runner was holding; I suppose this would also
> eliminate cards like Hokaheh! from the AEX set, which can only be =
played
> on your Runners.
>
[Teos Abadia writes]
Cool idea! It does a great job of limiting Vampires.