Logs for ShadowRN and Associated Mailing Lists

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 00:51:20 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 1 And with Demonnic's vote, 3 threads takes the lead (9 to 8)!

Three threads it is, then. If you're wondering, the basic premise,
therefore is that a UCAS military team goes in to grab Dr. Vanessa
Cliber. She's been contacted and has arranged to meet them at a certain
"safe" place. They get her and bug out. As they do, they're ambushed by
a Renraku black-ops team, who plaster most of the UCAS soldiers, steal
Cliber and head to their OWN escape route. Cliber is happy enough to go
with her employers rather than the UCAS. Meanwhile, a shadow team goes
in to look for someone of meaning to one or all of the team. The finale
will involve the shadow team finding their target and getting out
(probably), the Renraku team being ambushed by the survivors of the
UCAS military force, plus the resistance cell they hooked up with
(there you go, Strago - the resistance cell offers to help the UCAS
force get Cliber back if they help them get the leech serum) and then
Deus getting in on the act and the survivors of both teams having to
run without Cliber. That ending is subject to change, though. :)

Anyway, as I promised, I'm going to discuss this point further now:
> I'd like for the writers of the "key" stories to post a list of
their characters and what those characters' functions are, just so when
the rest of us are writing our stories we can use the right names.

Okay, like I said, I originally planned for the core characters to be
created 'by committee' over the list. Thinking about it, though,
that'll be a horror show and it'll take AGES. So if no one objects,
this is what I think should be done - the people who write the
introductory stories for the three threads will create the characters,
then run them out for the list to see and comment on. Any glaring
problems will be fixed and then everyone can get to work.

Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.

I thought the Renraku thread could probably start during or just after
their ambush of the UCAS team, but it can certainly start earlier
(although later would probably not be a good idea). This one can go
whereever the writer wants to take it, except the Renraku team CANNOT
escape the arc at this time.

The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
then use it.

So there are some rough guidelines - who would like to write those
stories?

That's the next step. Once we have some volunteers, everyone else gets
to decide on what they want to write, if you haven't already. If you're
short on ideas, speak up and I'll plaster some on the list. Again, send
ideas directly to me first. Once everyone's pretty much decided what
they want to do, I'll do up a rough (rough, very rough, very very rough
rough :) ) chronology of the stories and we can get started - if you
haven't already. :) I don't want to discourage you from starting
writing, but if you do start soon, you might have to make a few more
changes than would otherwise be the case. If you can't handle that,
then it's probably best to wait a little while.

Anyway, right now we need two volunteers to write the Renraku and
shadow team introductory threads. Once we have those, the volunteers
have two or three days to ROUGHLY draw up their characters (names,
callsigns, major skills, any exceptional attributes, major
cyberware/spells/physad abilities/drones etc., major gear, short bit on
personality and appearance, anything else you can think of that would
be appropriate) and submit them to the list.

Let's do it...

Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
guys think?

Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
the arc with the rest of the team.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 18:07:44 +1000

Message no. 2 > Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
> do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
> go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
> by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
> with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>
> I thought the Renraku thread could probably start during or just after
> their ambush of the UCAS team, but it can certainly start earlier
> (although later would probably not be a good idea). This one can go
> whereever the writer wants to take it, except the Renraku team CANNOT
> escape the arc at this time.
>
> The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
> they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
> much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
> probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
> then use it.
>
> So there are some rough guidelines - who would like to write those
> stories?

I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and gets
hit by the cream pie*

> Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
> thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
> talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
> two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
> (deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
> guys think?

what about an adept seargent? "Im a lean mean magical machine!" :)

> Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
> in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
> effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
> one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
> automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
> was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
> can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
> Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
> won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
> the arc with the rest of the team.

I dont think an underbarrel grenade launcher would be .... sutiable?
perhaps giving the sniper the rifle.. but also a grenade launcher pistol
(like in 'house of the sun' found on the dead 'young soldier' in the plane
near the end - sorry about any possible spoiler effect here). kit the
sniper out with spotter gear as snipers usually are skilled in stealth and
scouting as they usually have to get into position without being noticed.
this isnt too unlike the scout type figure. correct?

Aaron

From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 05:46:28 EDT

Message no. 3 In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
>do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
>go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
>by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
>with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.

As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.

>Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
>thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
>talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
>two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
>(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
>guys think?

Sounds good.

>
>Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
>in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
>effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
>one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
>automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
>was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
>can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
>Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
>won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
>the arc with the rest of the team.

If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have something
more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out HIS
assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in case
he needs to do a sniping shot.

From:	Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:31:19 -0500

Message no. 4 ----- Original Message -----
From: <CEvans9159@***.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

>
> In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>
> >Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
> >do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
> >go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
> >by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
> >with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>
> As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
> side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.
>
> >Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
> >thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
> >talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
> >two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
> >(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
> >guys think?
>
>
> Sounds good.
>
> >
> >Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
> >in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
> >effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
> >one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
> >automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
> >was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
> >can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
> >Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
> >won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
> >the arc with the rest of the team.
>
> If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
> happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have
something
> more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out HIS
> assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in
case
> he needs to do a sniping shot.
>
>

Hi,
Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops. Of
course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.

Mockingbird

From:	Ayla Renee ReneeKrena@********.net
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 08:49:23 -0500

Message no. 5 Geez, I think I just want to take the "Tie it all together story." With all
these different, wonderful story ideas coming together. Thats my better part
anyway...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mockingbird <mockingbird@*********.com>
To: srfanfic@*********.org <srfanfic@*********.org>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CEvans9159@***.com>
>To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:46 AM
>Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>>
>> >Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
>> >do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
>> >go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
>> >by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
>> >with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>>
>> As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
>> side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.
>>
>> >Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
>> >thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
>> >talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
>> >two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
>> >(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
>> >guys think?
>>
>>
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> >
>> >Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
>> >in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
>> >effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
>> >one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
>> >automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
>> >was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
>> >can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
>> >Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
>> >won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
>> >the arc with the rest of the team.
>>
>> If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
>> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
>> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
>> happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have
>something
>> more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out
HIS
>> assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in
>case
>> he needs to do a sniping shot.
>>
>>
>
>Hi,
> Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
>bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
>assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?
>
> If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops. Of
>course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>
>
>
>

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:20:13 -0300

Message no. 6 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
] Hi,
] Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
] bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
] assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

Well, is it a covert ops team or an assault team? Yeah, I can see
them taking in the big guns a la Jesse 'The Body' in Predator if they
expect to start some...ahem, drek. But if they want to get in and get
out,the assault rifle's pretty heavy stuff anyway. In fact, if they
don't know what they're getting into, I can't see why they'd take a
heavier weapon than a silenced sub-machinegun. That's standard covert
ops ware, isn't it?

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:35:56 -0300

Message no. 7 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."

<time to rev' up the ol' SnipMaster(tm)>

] Three threads it is, then. If you're wondering, the basic premise,
] therefore is that a UCAS military team goes in to grab Dr. Vanessa
] Cliber. She's been contacted and has arranged to meet them at a certain
] "safe" place. They get her and bug out. As they do, they're ambushed by
] a Renraku black-ops team, who plaster most of the UCAS soldiers, steal
] Cliber and head to their OWN escape route. Cliber is happy enough to go
] with her employers rather than the UCAS. Meanwhile, a shadow team goes
] in to look for someone of meaning to one or all of the team. The finale
] will involve the shadow team finding their target and getting out
] (probably), the Renraku team being ambushed by the survivors of the
] UCAS military force, plus the resistance cell they hooked up with
] (there you go, Strago - the resistance cell offers to help the UCAS
] force get Cliber back if they help them get the leech serum) and then
] Deus getting in on the act and the survivors of both teams having to
] run without Cliber. That ending is subject to change, though. :)

This all sounds peachy.

] Okay, like I said, I originally planned for the core characters to be
] created 'by committee' over the list. Thinking about it, though,
] that'll be a horror show and it'll take AGES.

Agreed.

] Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
] do these.

<snip-a-roo!>

] The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
] they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
] much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
] probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
] then use it.

Well, I'd be interested in doing that intro story. The synopsis for
my tale that I mailed Doc' has to do with a fixer who has lost someone
in the arc, and pulls in all his favours from all his contacts, but
can't find anyone to go in and get them...in the process, he loses his
RL job and his reputation. I had planned to end it on a despairing
note, but if this fits the foot, let's shoe it. The fixer could find
this team, and they either go in after his family member, or they go in
for their own reasons, and refuse to help him. It works either way.

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 12:38:00 -0300

Message no. 8 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and gets
] hit by the cream pie*

Oh shoot, hadn't read this. I guess Aaron's got first claim to the
shadow team story then (if you want help, I'm here :)

-Murder of One

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 9 > I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and
gets hit by the cream pie*

Get me a synopsis (covering the MAIN events of the story as you see
them) ASAP.

> what about an adept seargent? "Im a lean mean magical machine!" :)

Possibility, but I want to be semi-realistic as far as magic is
concerned. :)

> I dont think an underbarrel grenade launcher would be .... sutiable?
perhaps giving the sniper the rifle.. but also a grenade launcher
pistol (like in 'house of the sun' found on the dead 'young soldier' in
the plane near the end - sorry about any possible spoiler effect here).
kit the sniper out with spotter gear as snipers usually are skilled in
stealth and scouting as they usually have to get into position without
being noticed. this isnt too unlike the scout type figure. correct?
>
> Aaron

Well, I know what YOU think about my idea already. :) Anyway, as for
serving as a scout, that'd depend on what kind of job the sniper
usually does. A lone wolf sniper has to be stealthy, yes, but one that
usually provides support for a team doesn't have to be so much, and I
see this guy as one of the latter. That's certainly a possibility, though.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:14:59 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 10 > If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely
won't happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could
have something more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can
always trick out HIS assualt rifle with some good optical magnification
package and such in case he needs to do a sniping shot.

Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.

Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:16:23 EDT

Message no. 11 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:12:46 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
>a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
>damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
>raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>
>Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
>sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?

I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the Arcology is a
place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper position.
And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll with
an assault cannon.

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:18:51 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 12 > I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the Arcology is
a place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper
position.

True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
close-up work.

> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll
with an assault cannon.

Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what I'm
trying to AVOID. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:24:00 EDT

Message no. 13 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:22:25 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
>(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
>sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
>close-up work.

Now yer just getting petulant. ;)

>> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll
>with an assault cannon.
>>
>Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what I'm
>trying to AVOID. :)

Why? whatcha got against Trolls????

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:25:17 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 14 > Hi,
> Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a
major bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with
the assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

Errr, because they don't. They're supposed to be a STEALTH team, not a
stand up and fight team. If you recall some previous discussions with
Strago, if the team was SUPPOSED to get into a stand-up fight with
Deus, they would have sent along a battalion, if not a regiment or more
of troops - six people are going to get slaughtered if they try to
stand off Deus' goons, no matter HOW well they're armed. Weaponry is
for self-defense and to allow the team enough breathing space to run
and hide - which is where an HMG on a gyromount or a PAC becomes a
hindrance.

> If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
>
> Mockingbird

No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:34:52 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 15 > >True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
close-up work.
>
> Now yer just getting petulant. ;)

*lol* Am not! :)

> >Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what
I'm trying to AVOID. :)
>
> Why? whatcha got against Trolls????

Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
stealthy kinda guy. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:34:57 EDT

Message no. 16 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:32:38 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
>Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
>small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
>environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
>And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
>stealthy kinda guy. :)

Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for the PAC?
;)

Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no more
illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll prolly
never use. :P

Tay-Dor
"Trolls rule!"

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Tue, 15 Jun 1999 23:39:47 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 17 > Geez, I think I just want to take the "Tie it all together story."
With all these different, wonderful story ideas coming together. Thats
my better part anyway...

Errr, no...this one isn't going to be 'assigned' at this time, for a
few reasons. Mainly, it'll have to wait to be done until all (or at
least most) the other stories are completed, otherwise it and another
story could screw around with each other too much. That'll also let
whoever writes in intergrate all the wonderful things that have
happened previously.

Also, if one of the established Shadowrun writers are interested in
contributing, I'd like to leave this story open for them to do. As Rat
said, having Jak Koke or Steve Kenson or the like writing one of our
stories will give us more clout towards getting it published.

And if none of them are interested, I would like to try to make this
one a collaboration between at least the people who created the core
groups, as the stories will focus on them and their creators will have
the best handle on them.

Of course, you're free to wait around to collaborate on that one if you
wish. I'll be approaching the Shadowrun boys over the next few days to
see if any of them want in, so I should be able to tell you soon
whether you'll be able to work on it or not.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Drea drea_@***.net
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:44:37 -0400

Message no. 18 > Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no
more
> illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll
prolly
> never use. :P

Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.

Pinkers
The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating in
the room.

From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:46:01 EDT

Message no. 19 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:44:58 PM, drea_@***.net writes:

>Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.
>

>Pinkers
>
>The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating
>in the room.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha....

PAC - Don't leave the Barrens without it.

From:	Hunter griffinhq@****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:50:01 -0400

Message no. 20 On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:16:23 EDT CEvans9159@***.com writes:
>
>In a message dated 6/15/99 11:12:46 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>
>>Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and
>because
>>a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S
>base
>>damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
>>raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>>
>>Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
>>sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
>
> I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the
>Arcology is a
>place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper
>position.
> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a
>Troll with
>an assault cannon.
>
>
Better. Trade the sniper for a Troll with muscle aug and a compound
bow.

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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:05:28 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 21 > Well, is it a covert ops team or an assault team? Yeah, I can see
them taking in the big guns a la Jesse 'The Body' in Predator if they
expect to start some...ahem, drek. But if they want to get in and get
out,the assault rifle's pretty heavy stuff anyway. In fact, if they
don't know what they're getting into, I can't see why they'd take a
heavier weapon than a silenced sub-machinegun. That's standard covert
ops ware, isn't it?
> -Murder of One

Exactly!

Jeez, Scott, you're doing it to me again.

These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.

Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:02:07 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 22 > Well, I'd be interested in doing that intro story. The synopsis for
my tale that I mailed Doc' has to do with a fixer who has lost someone
in the arc, and pulls in all his favours from all his contacts, but
can't find anyone to go in and get them...in the process, he loses his
RL job and his reputation. I had planned to end it on a despairing
note, but if this fits the foot, let's shoe it. The fixer could find
this team, and they either go in after his family member, or they go in
for their own reasons, and refuse to help him. It works either way.
>
> -Murder of One

Actually, Scott, this premise doesn't qualify as an 'intro' to the
shadow team as it only involves them in a peripheral way. So you can
still do this one. Aaron (or whoever) will create the shadow team and
you'll integrate them as needed into your story. 'Kay?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:26:01 +1000

Message no. 23 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely
> won't happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could
> have something more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can
> always trick out HIS assualt rifle with some good optical magnification
> package and such in case he needs to do a sniping shot.
>
> Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
> a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
> damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
> raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>
> Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
> sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
> ==> Doc'

If the sniper is strong enough -- who NOT give him a PAC? the military would
take one probably - sa its likely they know of or have all the rumours of
what Deus has done or could do..

GreyWolf

*If I had a choice Id take a PAC with me....*

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:24:17 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 24 > Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for
the PAC? ;)
>
> Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is
no more illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle
he'll prolly never use. :P
>
> Tay-Dor
> "Trolls rule!"

*sigh*

I'll never convince you, will I? :)

Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.

Fun is fun, but we need to be realistic.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:28:24 +1000

Message no. 25 > > If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
> Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
> >
> > Mockingbird
>
> No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
> you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
> ==> Doc'

Yuppers you did tell me.. but i only just got the email... actually i have
something already.. so hmm.. Il send it priv - but be aware it was started
only 15 mins ago - and that includes thinking time... :)

Cheers,
GreyWolf

From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:31:06 +1000

Message no. 26 > >Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
> >Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
> >small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
> >environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
> >And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
> >stealthy kinda guy. :)
>
> Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for the PAC?
> ;)
>
> Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no
more
> illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll prolly
> never use. :P
>
> Tay-Dor
> "Trolls rule!"

He has a point.. ever heard a sniper rifle in closed quarters? Its LOUD!!! let me
tell you.. and add an infinite number of "!'s" on the end there :)

a sniper rifle is not quite a stealthy weapon.. remember after you use it.. youre
position is often toast - unles youre a long way away from the target.. and in
the arc.. you aint gonna be at max range - are ya? :)

GreyWolf

From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:33:25 +1000

Message no. 27 > >Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.
> >
>
> >Pinkers
> >
> >The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating
> >in the room.
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahaha....
>
> PAC - Don't leave the Barrens without it.

No! No! No!

its:

"PAC - Dont LIVE the barrens without it." :)

<grin>

GreyWolf

From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:43:53 +1000

Message no. 28 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
> lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
> the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
> they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.
>
> Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
> you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
> team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
> however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)
> ==> Doc'

I had the idea of a 7 person team, with one being a decker who was involved
from a remote location to the arc.

human decker / ork drone rigger / troll sam / breeder sam / daisyeater sam
/ breeder physad/ troll or dwarf street mage

i know the file i sent you Rand, said a troll street mage (can you guess
where that idea came from?) but Im having second thoughts.. perhaps to
represent the entire set of metaraces.. but that reason just doesnt cut it
really.. so Im not sure. i think Ill stick to how it is. If you (or anyone
else) has thoughts on hits.. put your hand up and Ill pass you the cream
pie :)

if anyone dies its the ork rigger who (if anyone has to buy it) loses
control of his drones (a couple of nasty steel lynx' amongst others) to
Deus and has a "reall bad day" :) Again please feel free to voice
disagreement so the general body of the list can ridicule your suggestions
and so we will eventually force you to capitulate and go with my original
ideas :)

GreyWolf

* Yuk! You just got hit by that +4 magical Cream Pie! *

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 00:57:41 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 29 > He has a point.. ever heard a sniper rifle in closed quarters? Its
LOUD!!! let me tell you.. and add an infinite number of "!'s" on the
end there :)
>
> a sniper rifle is not quite a stealthy weapon.. remember after you
use it.. youre position is often toast - unles youre a long way away
from the target.. and in the arc.. you aint gonna be at max range -
are ya? :)
>
> GreyWolf

Well, the arc is pretty big, y'know.

Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:41:15 -0300

Message no. 30 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Actually, Scott, this premise doesn't qualify as an 'intro' to the
] shadow team as it only involves them in a peripheral way. So you can
] still do this one. Aaron (or whoever) will create the shadow team and
] you'll integrate them as needed into your story. 'Kay?

Sounds good. Chronology may be a problem, but we'll burn that bridge
while we're crossing it.

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:44:00 -0300

Message no. 31 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
] weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
] HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
] use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
] sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
] covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?

Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
can help us out.

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 08:52:13 -0300

Message no. 32 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Exactly!
]
] Jeez, Scott, you're doing it to me again.

I see my job, and I do it :)

] These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
] lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
] the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
] they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.
]
] Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
] you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
] team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
] however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)

To be perfectly honest, I took a hint from Rainbow Six (the game),
where the heaviest weapon you can select is either an M-16 type assault
weapon, or a door-blastin', room-sweepin',
"get-your-lousy-terrorist-hands-UP" shotgun. And I don't think either
are very quiet, so I don't think they're appropriate to the UCAS team's
mission (or the others', for that matter). If the mission style is
low-profile, you might want to stick to the silenceable arms.

-Murder of One

From:	Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 09:30:13 -0500

Message no. 33 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
> Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
> >
> > Mockingbird
>
> No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
> you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>

Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it or
not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their staging
area, and then attack them once they are inside.

Mockingbird

From:	Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 10:25:57 -0500

Message no. 34 ----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> can help us out.
>
> -Murder of One

Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
(not at home, can't look up the name).

Mockingbird

From:	Strago strago@***.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:49:32 -0400

Message no. 35 Mockingbird wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
> To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!
>
> > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> > loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> > aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> > maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> > can help us out.
> >
> > -Murder of One
>
> Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
> light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
> forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
> (not at home, can't look up the name).
>
> Mockingbird

DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-

From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:28:37 EDT

Message no. 36 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:26:14 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>*sigh*
>
>I'll never convince you, will I? :)
>

I'm just following your lead. ;)

>
>Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
>realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
>ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
>covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
>CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
>military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.

This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

But you do what ya wanna do since you seem pretty hellbent on doing
it your way.

Tay-Dor
(Fighter of troll Prejudice.)

From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:33:26 EDT

Message no. 37 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:54:18 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
>weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
>HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
>use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
>sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
>covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?

Okay...point of information....with the new info we have about The
Red Samurai staging area on the first 5 lvls...any official team going in is
going to have some hard evidence of what to ex[ect -- assuming Renraku tells
UCAS. So a UCAS strike team will know some of what to expect and will be
wanting to be pre-pared incase the stealth mission goes down the dumper.

Tay-Dor
(Generally PAC's don't make sence, but in this case, it does)

From:	Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:13:05 CST

Message no. 38 >From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
> Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
>loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
>aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
>maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
>can help us out.

Chem major mode <enable>

Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
matter). Bases don't work so well though.

>
>-Murder of One
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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From:	Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:20:28 CST

Message no. 39 >Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
>light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
>forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
>(not at home, can't look up the name).

White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff

>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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From:	Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 13:41:28 CST

Message no. 40 lurker mode <disable>

>From: CEvans9159@***.com
> This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
>be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
>who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
>learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

If you were an army recruiter and you ran into a 10 ft tall guy that was
covered in muscle and could really take a beating, where would you want him.
In a covert ops group where combat is not preferred or in a combat unit
where he can use his gifts better (PAC'c and LMG's would be light in a
trolls hands)

lurker mode <enable>

>Tay-Dor
> (Fighter of troll Prejudice.)

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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From:	CEvans9159@*.com CEvans9159@*.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:19:21 EDT

Message no. 41 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:43:14 PM, knight_errant30@*******.com writes:

>If you were an army recruiter and you ran into a 10 ft tall guy that was
>covered in muscle and could really take a beating, where would you want
>him.
> In a covert ops group where combat is not preferred or in a combat unit
>where he can use his gifts better (PAC'c and LMG's would be light in a
>trolls hands)

You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
them being kicked out for size.

Tay-Dor

From:	Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:23:54 CST

Message no. 42 >From: CEvans9159@***.com
> You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
>aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
>them being kicked out for size.

True but then again, they aren't 10 ft tall (usually) :)

>
>Tay-Dor

Geoff Haacke
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From:	Geoffrey Haacke knight_errant30@*******.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 16:25:57 CST

Message no. 43 > You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
>aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
>them being kicked out for size.

Also, they would still pick folks for the mission whose strengths would
complement the mission. Your hell raising combat op would not work. Your
infiltration specialist would.

>
>Tay-Dor
>
>

Geoff Haacke
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From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 17:50:34 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 44 > This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are
big...but who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be
stealthy, you learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

To an extent, yes. But I've never met a large person who can be as
sneaky as a small person. Hell, I'm 6'4" and I can be pretty sneaky if
I try, but it ain't easy. Sorry, I really should have expressed it
better. It's a matter of degrees. Sure, trolls could probably be sneaky
- but not AS sneaky. And as Geoff has pointed out, most trolls are
likely to be in combat squads, not covert-ops squads.

Let me put it this way. To me, it doesn't make sense for a covert ops
team to include a troll. Actually, the team composition I was thinking
of would be entirely made up of humans, with one elf (the mage). The
survivors of the introductory story would be the elf mage and the team
leader. (The rigger, set up in the lower levels of the arcology, is
going to get hit by Renraku Red Samurai at the same time the
infiltration team is hit by the black ops team - Renraku intends to
blame his death on one of Deus' drones that got through their lines.)

Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
killer.

Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES the
fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)

One last thing that counts against trolls (and to a lesser extent,
orks) in this situation. Who knows where the team is going to have to
go. There are certain areas inside the arc that a big guy just wouldn't
fit. Smaller people can use the 'terrain' to better advantage and
they're likely to plan for that, don't you think?

So the team composition ACCORDING TO ME would be:
- female elf mage
- male human team leader (cybered or physad with some cyber)
- male human heavy weapons specialist
- male human samurai
- male human samurai/combat decker
- female human rigger

Any suggestions? Any changes? Any problems?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:53:26 -0300

Message no. 45 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."
] >Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
] >realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
] >ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
] >covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
] >CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
] >military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.
]
] This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
] be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
] who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
] learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

Yeah, but size can be a factor. You wouldn't want an elephant for
crossing a rope bridge, you'd want a mule. Sure, the elephant's
hardier, stronger, and more fearsome, but the mule is _light_. It's a
question of who's appropriate for the mission (say....if you want a
Troll in there, why not a midget Troll?)

] But you do what ya wanna do since you seem pretty hellbent on doing
] it your way.

Whoa...let's go heavy on the smileys if we're kidding around, and if
not, try to avoid comments that may ruffle feathers. Everyone count to
ten before they hit Send, okay?

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:54:24 -0300

Message no. 46 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Geoffrey Haacke."
] Chem major mode <enable>
]
] Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
] explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
] matter). Bases don't work so well though.

So it's an option. Someone want to use this? UCAS team maybe?
Shadow team? Renraku team?

-Murder of One

From:	Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:59:37 -0300

Message no. 47 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
] specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
] smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
] MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
] manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
] killer.

Ah, the silent heavy weapon we all couldn't think of. Good stuff!
Mmmmm...Laser...

-Murder of One

From:	Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:44:24 -0700 (PDT)

Message no. 48 > Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it
or not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their
staging area, and then attack them once they are inside.
> Mockingbird

Unless there are objections, I'd like to have the UCAS throw around a
bit of weight to allow their people to stage out of the arc itself.
What would prevent Renraku attacking them as soon as they get inside is
a) radio contact with the outside (once they go inside, the Renraku
team that attacks them could be blues as far as they know, but on the
first five levels? The UCAS would KNOW something was screwy), plus b)
the support personnel going in with them - the Red Sammies could
probably take out 6 people quickly and quietly, but at least one person
in a group of 20 or more would likely have the chance to get off a
message. Renraku's best bet will be to ambush them inside Deus'
territory - if Deus doesn't get to them first. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:47:13 +1000

Message no. 49 > > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> > loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> > aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> > maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> > can help us out.
> >
> > -Murder of One
>
> Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
> light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
> forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
> (not at home, can't look up the name).
>
> Mockingbird

Could always try thermite. I think its very bright - but apparently almost
silent (100% chem reaction.. no fizzly with a flame .. etc).

GreyWolf

From:	Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject:	[RA:S Project] A result!!
Date:	Thu, 17 Jun 1999 11:52:23 +1000

Message no. 50 > ] Chem major mode <enable>
> ]
> ] Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
> ] explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
> ] matter). Bases don't work so well though.
>
> So it's an option. Someone want to use this? UCAS team maybe?
> Shadow team? Renraku team?
>
> -Murder of One

Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one dose of
DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.

Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...

GreyWolf

Message no. 51 > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't
too loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
can help us out.
> -Murder of One

Ahh, thought this might be what sparked off the thermite debate. :)

Okay, explosives would be EXTREMELY useful for taking down
leech-reinforced barriers, so I can see all teams having some kind of
demolition expertise. Does anyone on the list know anything about
demolitions so we can get this realistic?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 52 > To be perfectly honest, I took a hint from Rainbow Six (the game),
where the heaviest weapon you can select is either an M-16 type assault
weapon, or a door-blastin', room-sweepin',
"get-your-lousy-terrorist-hands-UP" shotgun. And I don't think either
are very quiet, so I don't think they're appropriate to the UCAS team's
mission (or the others', for that matter). If the mission style is
low-profile, you might want to stick to the silenceable arms.
> -Murder of One

Hmmm...laser for the heavy. Silenced SMGs for everyone else. The team
leader and other cyberbunnies, who can carry the extra weight, also
carry assault rifles (with integral grenade launchers) for if things
get hosed.

How does that sound?
==Doc'
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Message no. 53 > Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a
door, light a match, watch it burn through the door).

Know exactly how it works, Mockingbird, or are you just going from what
the movies show? :)

Does ANYONE knows exactly how it works? (I'm thinking noise, light
produced, time taken, that kind of thing.)

> Also, there is the several forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt
rifles from Street Sam Catalouge (not at home, can't look up the name).
> Mockingbird

Okay, what could a powerful, concentrated acid burn through QUICKLY?
Barrier 6? Barrier 8?

Actually, you'd want to use the weapons from Corporate Security
Catalogue. The Ares Squirt II is a pistol (much better than the
original Squirt which was in Shadowtech). There's an "SMG" version of
the Squirt as well (can't remember the name) which fires SMG range
streams of liquid, or shotgun range blasts. That's probably the most
useful in these circumstances. There's also the ELD-AR (something
Liquid Delivery Assault Rifle) - works like an assault rifle, but it
fires large gel capsules containing whatever liquid you want.
==Doc'
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Message no. 54 > DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
> I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.
> --Strago

It ignores SEMI-PERMEABLE armour. Great against blues who aren't
wearing heavy armour. Absolutely useless against drones.
==Doc'
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Message no. 55 > Okay...point of information....with the new info we have about The
Red Samurai staging area on the first 5 lvls...any official team going
in is going to have some hard evidence of what to ex[ect -- assuming
Renraku tells UCAS. So a UCAS strike team will know some of what to
expect and will be wanting to be pre-pared incase the stealth mission
goes down the dumper.
> Tay-Dor
> (Generally PAC's don't make sence, but in this case, it does)

Yes, you're right - a PAC certainly WOULD make sense - for an assault
team. That's the thing. Both the UCAS and Renraku teams are covert ops
teams. They get in and get out, hopefully without encountering
resistance. If they DO get into trouble, they don't stand around and
fight it out, they try to disengage and escape.

Lighter weapons are called for. As I said, after thinking about it, I
think a laser would make a good 'heavy' weapon for the squad. What do
you reckon?
==Doc'
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Message no. 56 > Chem major mode <enable>
>
> Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without
the explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are
another matter). Bases don't work so well though.

Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

Ummm...most construction materials are composites in Shadowrun. The
drones are metal, though - I think. Would a sufficiently strong acid
work fast enough to be a feasible weapon (say if a drone was sprayed in
the acid using one of those 'SMG/Shotgun' liquid sprayers I mentioned).
==Doc'
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Message no. 57 > White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff

Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?
==Doc'
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Message no. 58 In a message dated 6/16/99 5:48:08 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
>specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
>smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
>MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
>manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
>killer.

Good idea. :)

>
>Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES the
>fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)

Shall I sign ya up for the Humanis membership club card now? ;)

Point taken on size too. :) Looks like a good team

Message no. 59 In a message dated 6/16/99 8:20:59 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
>does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
>what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
>need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

What about carry blow torches...ala Aliens when they sealed the door.
I figure you could cut through the door also. I figure by 2060, they'll
have come up with a blow torch that can cut faster.

Tay-Dor

Message no. 60 In a message dated 6/16/99 8:55:14 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
>making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
>drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

I hear it reaches some pretty good temps and as long as it gets
oxygen, it keeps burning. So it might burn through metal...slowly. The main
problem is getting it to stop...and that ain't happening unless you have a
large quantity of water or something.

Tay-Dor
"But I could be wrong..."

Message no. 61 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one
dose of
] DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.

Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.

] Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
] plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...

Undoubtably.

-Murder of One

Message no. 62 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Hmmm...laser for the heavy. Silenced SMGs for everyone else. The team
] leader and other cyberbunnies, who can carry the extra weight, also
] carry assault rifles (with integral grenade launchers) for if things
] get hosed.
]
] How does that sound?

Sounds realistic. Maybe a non-lethal option too, either gel rounds,
or Narcojet pistols.

-Murder of One

Message no. 63 > >Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy
weapons specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares
MPV?) - smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also
carry an MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
killer.
>
> Good idea. :)

Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC came
out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56), the
MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only needed
a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist :) )
batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model "MPV"
Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power packs
that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.

> >Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES
the fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)
>
> Shall I sign ya up for the Humanis membership club card now? ;)

Hey, some of my best characters...errr...friends are trolls...:)

> Point taken on size too. :) Looks like a good team

Glad you approve. No, really.

8-)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 64 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
> > I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.
> > --Strago
>
> It ignores SEMI-PERMEABLE armour. Great against blues who aren't
> wearing heavy armour. Absolutely useless against drones.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
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Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak through
stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my powergaming friends
borrowed it...

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the
chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M-

Message no. 65 > What about carry blow torches...ala Aliens when they sealed the
door. I figure you could cut through the door also. I figure by 2060,
they'll have come up with a blow torch that can cut faster.
> Tay-Dor

Hmmm...nice...smaller, hotter, faster.

Still, if you have to get through IMMEDIATELY, explosives of some sort
would be required.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 66 [grunt]
I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and here's my
feedback.
First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of the team
with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.
For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several shotguns
(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression, at least one laser and/or
projectile weapon (such as a bow), and probably an LMG as well. The
projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it would be
just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper rifle without
the weight or kick.
Combat knives all around and an assortment of grenades as well.

Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.

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Message no. 67 > Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak
through stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my
powergaming friends borrowed it...
> --Strago

Errr...you're not thinking of DMSO itself, are you? :)

DMSO opens pores in skin to allow large particles that normally
couldn't get in with just contact to penetrate the skin. It also seeps
through anything up to solid materials (which includes soft armour),
but that's probably just because it's a liquid, although the DMSO
properties might have some effect on the speed at which it works. There
isn't anything else I know of that has an effect like that.
==Doc'
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Message no. 68 > Sounds realistic. Maybe a non-lethal option too, either gel
rounds, or Narcojet pistols.
>
> -Murder of One

Hmmm...suggestion noted. I think they'd take gel rounds if anything, so
they didn't have to carry too much weight, but narcoject pistols or
squirts wouldn't weigh much more anyway. Hmmm...
==Doc'
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Message no. 69 > [grunt]
> I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and here's
my feedback.
> First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of the team
with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.

Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against drones.
Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp rounds, or
perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire touch.

> For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several shotguns
(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression,

Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade launchers
would be more useful.

> at least one laser and/or projectile weapon (such as a bow),

Definitely a laser. That's the UCAS team's heavy weapon.

> and probably an LMG as well.

Not if the others are carrying assault rifles. They fulfill pretty much
the same function (at least in Shadowrun) and the laser is a better
armour-killer. Anyway, as has been said many times before ( :) ) it's a
covert ops team, not a strike team. I'm trying to keep the weaponry
light. Laser instead of a PAC, assault rifles rather than LMGs etc.
etc.

> The projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it
would be just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper
rifle without the weight or kick.

This is where the laser comes in. Plus, this is a UCAS military team. I
really don't think bows and arrows are going to be standard armament
even for a covert ops team (maybe for the Sioux Wildcats, but not for
the UCAS).

> Combat knives all around and an assortment of
> grenades as well.

Oh yes. Minigrenades rather than grenades - everyone has either an
assault rifle mounting an integral grenade launcher or a MGL12 or MGL6.

> Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.

*shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
- Female elf mage.
- Male human team leader/adept.
- Male human cyberbunny/medic.
- Male human cyberbunny/decker.
- Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
- Female human rigger.
Good point, Hunter.
==Doc'
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Message no. 70 > So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.

Oops forgot some other stuff.
- Female elf mage.
- Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
- Male human cyberbunny/medic.
- Male human cyberbunny/decker.
- Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
- Female human rigger.

What do you think?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 71 On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Rand Ratinac
<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
>> [grunt]
>> I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and
>here's
>my feedback.
>> First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of
>the team
>with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
>pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.
>
>Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
>drones.
>Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp rounds, or
>perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire touch.
>
Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the lighter stuff can
be taken down by a slivergun easy.

>> For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several
>shotguns
>(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression,
>
>Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade launchers
>would be more useful.
>
Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment. With
flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time. Also
useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

>> at least one laser and/or projectile weapon (such as a bow),
>
>Definitely a laser. That's the UCAS team's heavy weapon.
>
>> and probably an LMG as well.
>
>Not if the others are carrying assault rifles. They fulfill pretty
>much
>the same function (at least in Shadowrun) and the laser is a better
>armour-killer. Anyway, as has been said many times before ( :) ) it's
>a
>covert ops team, not a strike team. I'm trying to keep the weaponry
>light. Laser instead of a PAC, assault rifles rather than LMGs etc.
>etc.
>
Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course. Assault rifles
are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment. An SMG is a better
choice.

>> The projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it
>would be just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper
>rifle without the weight or kick.
>
>This is where the laser comes in. Plus, this is a UCAS military team.
>I really don't think bows and arrows are going to be standard armament
>even for a covert ops team (maybe for the Sioux Wildcats, but not for
>the UCAS).
>
YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine gunnery sergeant,
btw) who's a bow nut.

>> Combat knives all around and an assortment of
>> grenades as well.
>
>Oh yes. Minigrenades rather than grenades - everyone has either an
>assault rifle mounting an integral grenade launcher or a MGL12 or
>MGL6.
>
Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.

>> Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.
>
>*shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
>they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
>cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
> So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.
>
I manage to get it right every once in a while.

>Oops forgot some other stuff.
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
> - Female human rigger.
>
>What do you think?
>
Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced mix of
male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
[shrugs]
Just my nickel's worth.

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Message no. 72 In a message dated 6/16/99 11:33:01 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Oops forgot some other stuff.
>
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
> - Female human rigger.
>
>What do you think?

Hmmm...No trolls but 3 Bunny-Shifters? I'm starting to think
you have something against trolls. ;)

Tay-Dor
(if ya didn't get it...that was a joke. I understand the
"cyberbunny" line.)

Message no. 73 > >Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
drones. Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp
rounds, or perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire
touch.
> >
> Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the lighter stuff
can be taken down by a slivergun easy.

Hmmm...p'raps...

> >Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade
launchers would be more useful.
> >
> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment.
With flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time.
Also useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

Again this comes back to the 'flechette' effect. Slugs would be good
against drones, sure, but shot wouldn't. Remember, drones operate using
vehicle armour rules. Anyway, FA fire and defensive grenades would be
just as good from getting clumps of bad guys.

How about a mix? Everyone has pistols and SMGs. The team leader and the
medic carry assault rifles. The combat decker (with the cyberarm
gyromount I'm going to give him :) ) has a combat shotgun. And the
heavy weapons specialist has his laser.

> Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course. Assault
rifles are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment.

And an LMG isn't? :)

> An SMG is a better choice.

Silenced SMGs as standard, yes.

> YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine gunnery
sergeant, btw) who's a bow nut.

Yes, but would he ever use them in a combat situation or does he just
use them for fun? And do you know of any US military force (special
forces, covert ops or the like) who are ever equipped with bows?

> Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.

Hummm...yeah, gas and offensive would be bad choices in an environment
like the arc, as would willie-pete smoke rounds.

> >Oops forgot some other stuff.
> > - Female elf mage.
> > - Male human team leader/adept/electronics
> expert.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons
> specialist/demolitions expert.
> > - Female human rigger.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced mix of
male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
> [shrugs]
> Just my nickel's worth.

I can understand orks (for extra muscle without being too big), but why
more women? It may be 2060, but I still don't exactly see the UCAS
armed forces as an equal opportunity employer - not for combat roles
anyway. :) The rigger's a woman because she isn't exactly in a "combat"
role, so it doesn't matter. The mage is a woman because you take magic
where you can find it. But I think a 4/2 male/female split in a UCAS
military force would not be unreasonable.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 74 In a message dated 6/16/99 11:46:39 PM, griffinhq@****.com writes:

> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment. With
>flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time. Also
>useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

Flechettes suck unless you are going against a mass of unarmored
targets. otherwise, all they are is an annoyance.

Tay-Dor

Message no. 75 On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Rand Ratinac
<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
>> >Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
>drones. Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp
>rounds, or perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire
>touch.
>> >
>> Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the
>lighter stuff
>can be taken down by a slivergun easy.
>
>Hmmm...p'raps...
>
>> >Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade
>launchers would be more useful.
>> >
>> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat
>environment.
>With flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time.
>Also useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.
>
>Again this comes back to the 'flechette' effect. Slugs would be good
>against drones, sure, but shot wouldn't. Remember, drones operate
>using
>vehicle armour rules. Anyway, FA fire and defensive grenades would be
>just as good from getting clumps of bad guys.
>
>How about a mix? Everyone has pistols and SMGs. The team leader and
>the
>medic carry assault rifles. The combat decker (with the cyberarm
>gyromount I'm going to give him :) ) has a combat shotgun. And the
>heavy weapons specialist has his laser.
>
[shrug]

>> Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course.
>Assault
>rifles are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment.
>
>And an LMG isn't? :)
>
No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
them.

>> An SMG is a better choice.
>
>Silenced SMGs as standard, yes.
>
>> YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine
>gunnery
>sergeant, btw) who's a bow nut.
>
>Yes, but would he ever use them in a combat situation or does he just
>use them for fun? And do you know of any US military force (special
>forces, covert ops or the like) who are ever equipped with bows?
>
Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy to
maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.

>> Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.
>
>Hummm...yeah, gas and offensive would be bad choices in an environment
>like the arc, as would willie-pete smoke rounds.
>
>> >Oops forgot some other stuff.
>> > - Female elf mage.
>> > - Male human team leader/adept/electronics
>> expert.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons
>> specialist/demolitions expert.
>> > - Female human rigger.
>> >
>> >What do you think?
>> >
>> Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced
>mix of
>male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
>> [shrugs]
>> Just my nickel's worth.
>
>I can understand orks (for extra muscle without being too big), but
>why
>more women? It may be 2060, but I still don't exactly see the UCAS
>armed forces as an equal opportunity employer - not for combat roles
>anyway. :) The rigger's a woman because she isn't exactly in a
>"combat"
>role, so it doesn't matter. The mage is a woman because you take magic
>where you can find it. But I think a 4/2 male/female split in a UCAS
>military force would not be unreasonable.

Ditto.

*************************************************************************
********************
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"If you just want to kill things, play D&D."

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Message no. 76 > >And an LMG isn't? :)
> >
> No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
them.

True. Yesss...laser as a heavy weapon, with one combat shotgun as
backup. Two assault rifles w/grenade launchers for suppressive fire.
SMGs for standard ops. And sliverguns as sidearms. Sounds all right to
me.

> Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy
to maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.

Commonplace in an ARCOLOGY? Hmmm...well...

Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 77 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff
>
> Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
> making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
> drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

if you light red phosphorus it can easily burn right through a solid metal
(iron/steel) bench about an inch thick, then through the concrete floor,
then through the composite material cieling below, then another steel
bench, then another floor which is about 3 times as thick as the last one..
tehn through the cieling of a steel vault then most of the way through the
floor...

if thats enough of a burn through .. imagine this.. white phos is a LOT
worse.

(Note: this information comes from a chemistry experiment gone wrong.. VERY
wrong!).

GreyWolf

Message no. 78 > ] Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one
> dose of
> ] DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.
>
> Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
> anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
> replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.
>
> ] Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
> ] plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...
>
> Undoubtably.
>
> -Murder of One

Argh! i didnt mean DMSO.. i meant that other one.. but I cant remember the name..
<exasperated sigh!>

GreyWolf

Message no. 79 > *shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
> they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
> cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.
> ==> Doc'

***

"Sir, we have movement on the sensors."

"Movement? Where!"

"To the north-east. Near the main walkway between sections alpha and gamma"

"Is it a covert assault team?"

"No Sir, dont think so.. the movements too erratic for most of the blips"

"Erattic?"

"Some strange up/down movement"

"Up and Down movement? What are you talking about soldier!"

"Tally Ho, Sir, we have the enemy in our sights, but they're too fast!"

"Too fast? What do you mean too fast.. this is SOTA gear and cyber youve got and
you say its too fast?"

"Well, you take a look Sir, see if you can hit one"

<looking through binoc's>

"Gawd! NO! its the..."

<drops binoc's and starts to run>

"CYBER BUNNIES!"

***

GreyWolf

Message no. 80 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > >And an LMG isn't? :)
> > >
> > No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
> them.
>
> True. Yesss...laser as a heavy weapon, with one combat shotgun as
> backup. Two assault rifles w/grenade launchers for suppressive fire.
> SMGs for standard ops. And sliverguns as sidearms. Sounds all right to
> me.
>
> > Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
> missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy
> to maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.
>
> Commonplace in an ARCOLOGY? Hmmm...well...
>
> Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.

now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of char-concept got
printed :) ).

GreyWolf

Message no. 81 In our last episode, Scott Wheelock wrote:
>
> Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
> anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
> replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.

I was wondering.

For an in-depth, medical study of DMSO, check the DMSO Homepage:

http://www.dmso.org/index.html

it should clear up any misconceptions.

--Fenris
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) MitS, pg.158

Message no. 82 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC came
] out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56), the
] MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only needed
] a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist :) )
] batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model "MPV"
] Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power packs
] that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.

I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't said so
yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns. Besides,
that's just waaaay unbalancing.

-Murder of One

Message no. 83 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
]
] <looking through binoc's>
]
] "Gawd! NO! its the..."
]
] <drops binoc's and starts to run>
]
] "CYBER BUNNIES!"
]
] ***

Which, I assume, would have big, nasty, retractable teeth?

:)

-Murder of One

Message no. 84 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
char-concept got
] printed :) ).
]
] GreyWolf

That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
(and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
(since dwarf's been taken :)

-Murder of One

Message no. 85 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak
> through stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my
> powergaming friends borrowed it...
> > --Strago
>
> Errr...you're not thinking of DMSO itself, are you? :)
>

DUH-YUP I was. *sheepish grin* From the way the GM was talking, DMSO was
what knocked us all out last week when that a-hole with the Ares Squirt II
decided to open fire on us in the middle of the fragging Barrens! DMSO was
just what the knockout was BONDED to. I see that now. See? If I'd had
Shadowtech all these electrons would have been saved ;^P. I think I'll blow
up the character just to satisfy my lust for revenge...

> DMSO opens pores in skin to allow large particles that normally
> couldn't get in with just contact to penetrate the skin. It also seeps
> through anything up to solid materials (which includes soft armour),
> but that's probably just because it's a liquid, although the DMSO
> properties might have some effect on the speed at which it works. There
> isn't anything else I know of that has an effect like that.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M-

Message no. 86 Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
> ] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
> ] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
> char-concept got
> ] printed :) ).
> ]
> ] GreyWolf
>
> That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
> like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
> (and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
> doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
> just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
> (since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

Go with the Troll! Maybe he thinks he's Robin Hood, so that's why he is so
good with the bow. Just think . . . a TROLL with a STRENGTH OF 15 after muscle aug
who's got a Bow skill of 6. If he dikoted the arrows, that's some serious
smacking. I like it. I also like the image of the Troll with a charisma of 1
running around in a green tunic and green hose, just like the "Merry Men" did. I
don't know if people would like the stench surrounding him, though...

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-

Message no. 87 >Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
>does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
>what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
>need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

I don't know to much about thermire (they won't teach me how to make it in
the lab :). I do know that it puts out a LOT of heat. It is in grenade
form and as a "plastic" i think. It would probably work like white
phosphorus i would imagine.

>
>Ummm...most construction materials are composites in Shadowrun. The
>drones are metal, though - I think. Would a sufficiently strong acid
>work fast enough to be a feasible weapon (say if a drone was sprayed in
>the acid using one of those 'SMG/Shotgun' liquid sprayers I mentioned).

Depends on the acid. Normal HCl would be slow. Chromic Acid (say Chromerge
from Fisher) or Aqua Regia would work much faster. However, it should be
noted that strong acids are VERY dangerous to carry around in large
quantities.

>==>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>..sig Sauer
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 88 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
> stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it
> or not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their
> staging area, and then attack them once they are inside.
> > Mockingbird
>
> Unless there are objections, I'd like to have the UCAS throw around a
> bit of weight to allow their people to stage out of the arc itself.
> What would prevent Renraku attacking them as soon as they get inside is
> a) radio contact with the outside (once they go inside, the Renraku
> team that attacks them could be blues as far as they know, but on the
> first five levels? The UCAS would KNOW something was screwy), plus b)
> the support personnel going in with them - the Red Sammies could
> probably take out 6 people quickly and quietly, but at least one person
> in a group of 20 or more would likely have the chance to get off a
> message. Renraku's best bet will be to ambush them inside Deus'
> territory - if Deus doesn't get to them first. :)
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

Actually, that is exactly what I meant.

Mockingbird

Message no. 89 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a
> door, light a match, watch it burn through the door).
>
> Know exactly how it works, Mockingbird, or are you just going from what
> the movies show? :)
>

Behind the scenes show actually, from what I recall, it burns REALLY REALLY
hot, and thereby melts whatever it is attached to. I can try to dig up some
info if noone else is an expert.

Mockingbird

Message no. 90 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>

Hi,
Don't know what you mean by collapsible, the make take downs (where the
arms are removable) but these wouldn't be realistic in a combat situation.
Mine takes about five minutes too attach the arms and string, though if it
has a quick release where the limbs just need to be inserted, then it might
be feasible on a recurve, but not on a compound. I just looked at the Bear
web site ( http://www.beararch.com ) and they just announced a new compound
that is 32" axle to axle and 3 1/4 lbs in weight.

Mockingbird

Message no. 91 ----- Original Message -----
From: Strago <strago@***.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Go with the Troll! Maybe he thinks he's Robin Hood, so that's why he
is so
> good with the bow. Just think . . . a TROLL with a STRENGTH OF 15 after
muscle aug
> who's got a Bow skill of 6. If he dikoted the arrows, that's some serious
> smacking. I like it. I also like the image of the Troll with a charisma of
1
> running around in a green tunic and green hose, just like the "Merry Men"
did. I
> don't know if people would like the stench surrounding him, though...
>
> --
> --Strago

Lemme guess, his street name would be Little John wouldn't it? :)

Mockingbird

Message no. 92 In a message dated 6/17/99 2:39:03 AM, sparrow@***.net.au writes:

>now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but
>not a troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
char-concept
>got printed :) ).

Why not a troll with a bow? A troll with a Ranger X-bow and a high
strength has a longer range than a sniper rifle! Much quieter too. :)

Tay-Dor
"Defender of Troll-Rights."
"hell...after all this, my story is definitely going to have to have
a troll as the main character." :)

Message no. 93 >Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
>making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
>drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

If it can generate that much heat, it can also burn/melt inanimate objects.
(check out the beginning of Preying for Keeps for a good example).

>==>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>..sig Sauer
>_________________________________________________________
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>Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 94 >Behind the scenes show actually, from what I recall, it burns REALLY REALLY
>hot, and thereby melts whatever it is attached to. I can try to dig up
>some
>info if noone else is an expert.

Also, magnesium fires cannot be extinguished by water. Water react with the
hot Mg, releasing more energy.

>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
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Message no. 95 > ] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC
came out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56),
the MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only
needed a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist
:) ) batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model
"MPV" Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power
packs that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.
>
> I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't said so
yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns. Besides,
that's just waaaay unbalancing.
>
> -Murder of One

Yes, but I'm not worried about unbalancing, as it's just for the story.
Hmmm...okay. Smaller, lighter, higher-powered, but still requiring
belt-mounted batteries.
==Doc'
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Message no. 96 > I was wondering.
>
> For an in-depth, medical study of DMSO, check the
> DMSO Homepage:
>
> http://www.dmso.org/index.html
>
> it should clear up any misconceptions.

Err...I don't have the time to read it all. Can someone give me a precis?
==Doc'
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Message no. 97 Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
> ] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
> ] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
> char-concept got
> ] printed :) ).
> ]
> ] GreyWolf
>
> That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
> like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
> (and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
> doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
> just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
> (since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a bow as a
weapon when not spellcasting! :)

ppl like that idea?

GreyWolf

Message no. 98 |> ] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when
the SSC
|came out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055
(or 56),
|the MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version
only
|needed a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around
your waist
|:) ) batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061
model
|"MPV" Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it
has power
|packs that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.
|>
|> I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't
said so
|yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns.
Besides,
|that's just waaaay unbalancing.
|>
|> -Murder of One
|
|Yes, but I'm not worried about unbalancing, as it's just for
the story.
|Hmmm...okay. Smaller, lighter, higher-powered, but still
requiring
|belt-mounted batteries.
|==|Doc'

hey doc, good idea, but i don't know if you would want to do
that. we all complain enough when the real writers of shadowrun
novels take license with the game mechanics, let us try to not
do the same thing. keep the MP laser as it is in FOF. in the
end, to have it as it is in FOF, will it really affect the story
that much?

-------------------------------------------------------------
k. david hayes
masquerades@****.com
www.members.home.net/masquerades
-------------------------------------------------------------
managing editor
ouc phoenix, kelowna b.c.
phoenix@******.bc.ca
www.oucsak.bc.ca/phoenix
-------------------------------------------------------------
campus plus board rep
western region
-------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 99 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a bow as a
] weapon when not spellcasting! :)
]
] ppl like that idea?

Why not a mage? I don'lllllllllllllllllllllll999999999999999kiiiiiio
ack, sorry, kitten on the keyboard. Sounds good, I guess. I'm kinda
impartial about the whole team makeup thing, 'cause it's really more
important to the writers what the core thread characters _do_, not are.

-Murder of One

Message no. 100 > hey doc, good idea, but i don't know if you would want to do that. we
all complain enough when the real writers of shadowrun novels take
license with the game mechanics, let us try to not do the same thing.
keep the MP laser as it is in FOF. in the end, to have it as it is in
FOF, will it really affect the story that much?
> k. david hayes

Errr, well, no - but it effects the premise. Like I said, FoF came out
in 2055 at which point the MPIII was coming onto the open market and
we're talking 6 years later. And this is a TOP military team. I think
they'd have better weaponry by 2061. Maybe not an Ares MPV, but
certainly something better than the MPIII. Ever heard the term
'milspec'? :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 101 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Errr, well, no - but it effects the premise. Like I said, FoF came out
] in 2055 at which point the MPIII was coming onto the open market and
] we're talking 6 years later. And this is a TOP military team. I think
] they'd have better weaponry by 2061. Maybe not an Ares MPV, but
] certainly something better than the MPIII. Ever heard the term
] 'milspec'? :)

Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the street
model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient." That
sort of thing.

-Murder of One

Message no. 102 > if you light red phosphorus it can easily burn right through a solid
metal (iron/steel) bench about an inch thick, then through the concrete
floor, then through the composite material cieling below, then another
steel bench, then another floor which is about 3 times as thick as the
last one.. tehn through the cieling of a steel vault then most of the
way through the floor...
>
> if thats enough of a burn through .. imagine this.. white phos is a
LOT worse.
>
> (Note: this information comes from a chemistry experiment gone
wrong.. VERY wrong!).
>
> GreyWolf

Hmmm, yeah...well, that's all very well and good, but phosphorus starts
burning at any exposure to air. I think any smart military people or
runners would use weapons on the bad guys and explosives (thermite,
prolly) to open things quietly, or maybe a bit of acid.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 103 > <drops binoc's and starts to run>
>
> "CYBER BUNNIES!"
>
> ***
>
> GreyWolf

You suck.

8-)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 104 > That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
(and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
(since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

I'd agree. Bows can be fun, but they're not exactly a weapon of choice
compared to an SMG or assault rifle in the arc. In a situation where it
could be useful, the laser could be just as good. Maybe not with a
troll on the team, but with anyone else, yes.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 105 > I don't know to much about thermire (they won't teach me how to make
it in the lab :). I do know that it puts out a LOT of heat. It is in
grenade form and as a "plastic" i think. It would probably work like
white phosphorus i would imagine.

Robert! Robert Sanders!! Don't suppose you happen to know anything
about thermite, do you? Like, how it's used in the military etc?

> Depends on the acid. Normal HCl would be slow. Chromic Acid (say
Chromerge from Fisher) or Aqua Regia would work much faster. However,
it should be noted that strong acids are VERY dangerous to carry around
in large quantities.
> Geoff Haacke

Yeah - like I said, thermite would probably be a better bet for
breaking things in most cases.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 106 > I can try to dig up some info if noone else is an expert.
>Mockingbird

Could you? Could prove useful.

Doc'
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Message no. 107 > I can try to dig up some info if noone else is an expert.
>Mockingbird

Could you? Could prove useful.

Doc'
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Message no. 108 > Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a
bow as a weapon when not spellcasting! :)
>
> ppl like that idea?
>
> GreyWolf

Well...an Amerindian shaman would certainly have leanings in the
projectile direction.
==Doc'
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Message no. 109 > Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the street
model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient." That
sort of thing.
>
> -Murder of One

Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Give it some made up model
number etc.
==Doc'
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Message no. 110 |> Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the
street
|model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient."
That
|sort of thing.
|>
|> -Murder of One
|
|Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Give it some made
up model
|number etc.
|==|Doc'

don't even need to have a model number, if it is brought up at
all, just make a casual reference to the fact that this is one
of the newest toys out there, and 'man does it pack a fraggin'
punch!'. <grin>

david

Message no. 111 And with Demonnic's vote, 3 threads takes the lead (9 to 8)!

Three threads it is, then. If you're wondering, the basic premise,
therefore is that a UCAS military team goes in to grab Dr. Vanessa
Cliber. She's been contacted and has arranged to meet them at a certain
"safe" place. They get her and bug out. As they do, they're ambushed by
a Renraku black-ops team, who plaster most of the UCAS soldiers, steal
Cliber and head to their OWN escape route. Cliber is happy enough to go
with her employers rather than the UCAS. Meanwhile, a shadow team goes
in to look for someone of meaning to one or all of the team. The finale
will involve the shadow team finding their target and getting out
(probably), the Renraku team being ambushed by the survivors of the
UCAS military force, plus the resistance cell they hooked up with
(there you go, Strago - the resistance cell offers to help the UCAS
force get Cliber back if they help them get the leech serum) and then
Deus getting in on the act and the survivors of both teams having to
run without Cliber. That ending is subject to change, though. :)

Anyway, as I promised, I'm going to discuss this point further now:
> I'd like for the writers of the "key" stories to post a list of
their characters and what those characters' functions are, just so when
the rest of us are writing our stories we can use the right names.

Okay, like I said, I originally planned for the core characters to be
created 'by committee' over the list. Thinking about it, though,
that'll be a horror show and it'll take AGES. So if no one objects,
this is what I think should be done - the people who write the
introductory stories for the three threads will create the characters,
then run them out for the list to see and comment on. Any glaring
problems will be fixed and then everyone can get to work.

Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.

I thought the Renraku thread could probably start during or just after
their ambush of the UCAS team, but it can certainly start earlier
(although later would probably not be a good idea). This one can go
whereever the writer wants to take it, except the Renraku team CANNOT
escape the arc at this time.

The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
then use it.

So there are some rough guidelines - who would like to write those
stories?

That's the next step. Once we have some volunteers, everyone else gets
to decide on what they want to write, if you haven't already. If you're
short on ideas, speak up and I'll plaster some on the list. Again, send
ideas directly to me first. Once everyone's pretty much decided what
they want to do, I'll do up a rough (rough, very rough, very very rough
rough :) ) chronology of the stories and we can get started - if you
haven't already. :) I don't want to discourage you from starting
writing, but if you do start soon, you might have to make a few more
changes than would otherwise be the case. If you can't handle that,
then it's probably best to wait a little while.

Anyway, right now we need two volunteers to write the Renraku and
shadow team introductory threads. Once we have those, the volunteers
have two or three days to ROUGHLY draw up their characters (names,
callsigns, major skills, any exceptional attributes, major
cyberware/spells/physad abilities/drones etc., major gear, short bit on
personality and appearance, anything else you can think of that would
be appropriate) and submit them to the list.

Let's do it...

Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
guys think?

Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
the arc with the rest of the team.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 112 > Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
> do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
> go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
> by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
> with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>
> I thought the Renraku thread could probably start during or just after
> their ambush of the UCAS team, but it can certainly start earlier
> (although later would probably not be a good idea). This one can go
> whereever the writer wants to take it, except the Renraku team CANNOT
> escape the arc at this time.
>
> The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
> they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
> much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
> probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
> then use it.
>
> So there are some rough guidelines - who would like to write those
> stories?

I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and gets
hit by the cream pie*

> Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
> thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
> talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
> two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
> (deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
> guys think?

what about an adept seargent? "Im a lean mean magical machine!" :)

> Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
> in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
> effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
> one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
> automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
> was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
> can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
> Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
> won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
> the arc with the rest of the team.

I dont think an underbarrel grenade launcher would be .... sutiable?
perhaps giving the sniper the rifle.. but also a grenade launcher pistol
(like in 'house of the sun' found on the dead 'young soldier' in the plane
near the end - sorry about any possible spoiler effect here). kit the
sniper out with spotter gear as snipers usually are skilled in stealth and
scouting as they usually have to get into position without being noticed.
this isnt too unlike the scout type figure. correct?

Aaron

Message no. 113 In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
>do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
>go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
>by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
>with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.

As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.

>Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
>thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
>talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
>two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
>(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
>guys think?

Sounds good.

>
>Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
>in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
>effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
>one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
>automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
>was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
>can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
>Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
>won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
>the arc with the rest of the team.

If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have something
more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out HIS
assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in case
he needs to do a sniping shot.

Message no. 114 ----- Original Message -----
From: <CEvans9159@***.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

>
> In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>
> >Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
> >do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
> >go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
> >by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
> >with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>
> As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
> side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.
>
> >Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
> >thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
> >talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
> >two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
> >(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
> >guys think?
>
>
> Sounds good.
>
> >
> >Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
> >in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
> >effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
> >one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
> >automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
> >was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
> >can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
> >Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
> >won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
> >the arc with the rest of the team.
>
> If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
> happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have
something
> more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out HIS
> assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in
case
> he needs to do a sniping shot.
>
>

Hi,
Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops. Of
course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.

Mockingbird

Message no. 115 Geez, I think I just want to take the "Tie it all together story." With all
these different, wonderful story ideas coming together. Thats my better part
anyway...

-----Original Message-----
From: Mockingbird <mockingbird@*********.com>
To: srfanfic@*********.org <srfanfic@*********.org>
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <CEvans9159@***.com>
>To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4:46 AM
>Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/15/99 12:47:38 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>>
>> >Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
>> >do these. I'm going to write the UCAS military introduction, which will
>> >go from them being on the outside, to meeting Cliber, to being ambushed
>> >by Renraku and Deus, to being rescued by the resistance. That leaves us
>> >with the Renraku thread and the shadow team thread.
>>
>> As I am not an experienced story writer, I will happily settle for a
>> side story and wait for the mail to bring me my copy of RA:S.
>>
>> >Oh. Which brings me to a question. The basic military team makeup I was
>> >thinking was a lady mage (none of this sexist crap - they take magical
>> >talent where they can find it :) ), a sniper, a team leader (cybered),
>> >two other cybergoons, one of whom has functions as a combat decker
>> >(deck in his cyberarm), and, possibly, an external rigger. What do you
>> >guys think?
>>
>>
>> Sounds good.
>>
>> >
>> >Anyway, my real question pertains to the sniper. Everyone else who goes
>> >in would be armed with top-line assault rifles for that lovely FA
>> >effect. :) (Mage carries an SMG, but still...) The sniper is the only
>> >one who won't have an 'area effect' (spell, grenade launcher or
>> >automatic weapon) weapon. So, to protect him from groups of nasties, I
>> >was thinking of giving him a Walter MA-2100 (military sniper rifle that
>> >can stand being banged around) with an underbarrel grenade launcher.
>> >Feasible? Or would it stuff his rifle around too much? Remember, he
>> >won't actually be fulfilling a standard sniper role as he's going into
>> >the arc with the rest of the team.
>>
>> If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
>> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
>> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely won't
>> happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could have
>something
>> more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can always trick out
HIS
>> assualt rifle with some good optical magnification package and such in
>case
>> he needs to do a sniping shot.
>>
>>
>
>Hi,
> Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
>bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
>assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?
>
> If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops. Of
>course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>
>
>
>

Message no. 116 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
] Hi,
] Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a major
] bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with the
] assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

Well, is it a covert ops team or an assault team? Yeah, I can see
them taking in the big guns a la Jesse 'The Body' in Predator if they
expect to start some...ahem, drek. But if they want to get in and get
out,the assault rifle's pretty heavy stuff anyway. In fact, if they
don't know what they're getting into, I can't see why they'd take a
heavier weapon than a silenced sub-machinegun. That's standard covert
ops ware, isn't it?

-Murder of One

Message no. 117 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."

<time to rev' up the ol' SnipMaster(tm)>

] Three threads it is, then. If you're wondering, the basic premise,
] therefore is that a UCAS military team goes in to grab Dr. Vanessa
] Cliber. She's been contacted and has arranged to meet them at a certain
] "safe" place. They get her and bug out. As they do, they're ambushed by
] a Renraku black-ops team, who plaster most of the UCAS soldiers, steal
] Cliber and head to their OWN escape route. Cliber is happy enough to go
] with her employers rather than the UCAS. Meanwhile, a shadow team goes
] in to look for someone of meaning to one or all of the team. The finale
] will involve the shadow team finding their target and getting out
] (probably), the Renraku team being ambushed by the survivors of the
] UCAS military force, plus the resistance cell they hooked up with
] (there you go, Strago - the resistance cell offers to help the UCAS
] force get Cliber back if they help them get the leech serum) and then
] Deus getting in on the act and the survivors of both teams having to
] run without Cliber. That ending is subject to change, though. :)

This all sounds peachy.

] Okay, like I said, I originally planned for the core characters to be
] created 'by committee' over the list. Thinking about it, though,
] that'll be a horror show and it'll take AGES.

Agreed.

] Which brings us to the introductory stories. I need two volunteers to
] do these.

<snip-a-roo!>

] The shadow team story would probably start at or around the time when
] they first break into the arc. Apart from that, the writer has pretty
] much carte blanche. I think their best method of insertion would
] probably be through the ork underground, but if you have a better idea,
] then use it.

Well, I'd be interested in doing that intro story. The synopsis for
my tale that I mailed Doc' has to do with a fixer who has lost someone
in the arc, and pulls in all his favours from all his contacts, but
can't find anyone to go in and get them...in the process, he loses his
RL job and his reputation. I had planned to end it on a despairing
note, but if this fits the foot, let's shoe it. The fixer could find
this team, and they either go in after his family member, or they go in
for their own reasons, and refuse to help him. It works either way.

-Murder of One

Message no. 118 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and gets
] hit by the cream pie*

Oh shoot, hadn't read this. I guess Aaron's got first claim to the
shadow team story then (if you want help, I'm here :)

-Murder of One

Message no. 119 > I'll be (or help) the writer of the shadow team. *sticks hand up and
gets hit by the cream pie*

Get me a synopsis (covering the MAIN events of the story as you see
them) ASAP.

> what about an adept seargent? "Im a lean mean magical machine!" :)

Possibility, but I want to be semi-realistic as far as magic is
concerned. :)

> I dont think an underbarrel grenade launcher would be .... sutiable?
perhaps giving the sniper the rifle.. but also a grenade launcher
pistol (like in 'house of the sun' found on the dead 'young soldier' in
the plane near the end - sorry about any possible spoiler effect here).
kit the sniper out with spotter gear as snipers usually are skilled in
stealth and scouting as they usually have to get into position without
being noticed. this isnt too unlike the scout type figure. correct?
>
> Aaron

Well, I know what YOU think about my idea already. :) Anyway, as for
serving as a scout, that'd depend on what kind of job the sniper
usually does. A lone wolf sniper has to be stealthy, yes, but one that
usually provides support for a team doesn't have to be so much, and I
see this guy as one of the latter. That's certainly a possibility, though.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 120 > If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely
won't happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could
have something more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can
always trick out HIS assualt rifle with some good optical magnification
package and such in case he needs to do a sniping shot.

Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.

Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 121 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:12:46 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
>a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
>damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
>raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>
>Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
>sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?

I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the Arcology is a
place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper position.
And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll with
an assault cannon.

Message no. 122 > I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the Arcology is
a place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper
position.

True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
close-up work.

> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll
with an assault cannon.

Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what I'm
trying to AVOID. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 123 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:22:25 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
>(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
>sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
>close-up work.

Now yer just getting petulant. ;)

>> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a Troll
>with an assault cannon.
>>
>Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what I'm
>trying to AVOID. :)

Why? whatcha got against Trolls????

Message no. 124 > Hi,
> Given that the UCAS has to know that there will probably be a
major bloodbath, why no heavy weapon specialist? You know the guy with
the assualt cannon or heavy machine gun on a gyro mount?

Errr, because they don't. They're supposed to be a STEALTH team, not a
stand up and fight team. If you recall some previous discussions with
Strago, if the team was SUPPOSED to get into a stand-up fight with
Deus, they would have sent along a battalion, if not a regiment or more
of troops - six people are going to get slaughtered if they try to
stand off Deus' goons, no matter HOW well they're armed. Weaponry is
for self-defense and to allow the team enough breathing space to run
and hide - which is where an HMG on a gyromount or a PAC becomes a
hindrance.

> If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
>
> Mockingbird

No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 125 > >True - but I don't think it's pushing it. Snipers going 'in country'
(ie. they're going to be in the field for a considerable time)
sometimes, if not often, carry their rifle, plus an assault weapon for
close-up work.
>
> Now yer just getting petulant. ;)

*lol* Am not! :)

> >Yeah, but I don't WANT a troll with an assault cannon. That's what
I'm trying to AVOID. :)
>
> Why? whatcha got against Trolls????

Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
stealthy kinda guy. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 126 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:32:38 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
>Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
>small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
>environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
>And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
>stealthy kinda guy. :)

Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for the PAC?
;)

Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no more
illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll prolly
never use. :P

Tay-Dor
"Trolls rule!"

Message no. 127 > Geez, I think I just want to take the "Tie it all together story."
With all these different, wonderful story ideas coming together. Thats
my better part anyway...

Errr, no...this one isn't going to be 'assigned' at this time, for a
few reasons. Mainly, it'll have to wait to be done until all (or at
least most) the other stories are completed, otherwise it and another
story could screw around with each other too much. That'll also let
whoever writes in intergrate all the wonderful things that have
happened previously.

Also, if one of the established Shadowrun writers are interested in
contributing, I'd like to leave this story open for them to do. As Rat
said, having Jak Koke or Steve Kenson or the like writing one of our
stories will give us more clout towards getting it published.

And if none of them are interested, I would like to try to make this
one a collaboration between at least the people who created the core
groups, as the stories will focus on them and their creators will have
the best handle on them.

Of course, you're free to wait around to collaborate on that one if you
wish. I'll be approaching the Shadowrun boys over the next few days to
see if any of them want in, so I should be able to tell you soon
whether you'll be able to work on it or not.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 128 > Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no
more
> illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll
prolly
> never use. :P

Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.

Pinkers
The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating in
the room.

Message no. 129 In a message dated 6/15/99 11:44:58 PM, drea_@***.net writes:

>Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.
>

>Pinkers
>
>The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating
>in the room.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha....

PAC - Don't leave the Barrens without it.

Message no. 130 On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:16:23 EDT CEvans9159@***.com writes:
>
>In a message dated 6/15/99 11:12:46 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:
>
>>Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and
>because
>>a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S
>base
>>damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
>>raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>>
>>Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
>>sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
>
> I think yer pushing it. It just doesn't sound like the
>Arcology is a
>place where he's gonna have much chance to set up in a sniper
>position.
> And if you want an armor killer, trade the sniper in for a
>Troll with
>an assault cannon.
>
>
Better. Trade the sniper for a Troll with muscle aug and a compound
bow.

*************************************************************************
********************
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"If you just want to kill things, play D&D."

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Message no. 131 > Well, is it a covert ops team or an assault team? Yeah, I can see
them taking in the big guns a la Jesse 'The Body' in Predator if they
expect to start some...ahem, drek. But if they want to get in and get
out,the assault rifle's pretty heavy stuff anyway. In fact, if they
don't know what they're getting into, I can't see why they'd take a
heavier weapon than a silenced sub-machinegun. That's standard covert
ops ware, isn't it?
> -Murder of One

Exactly!

Jeez, Scott, you're doing it to me again.

These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.

Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 132 > Well, I'd be interested in doing that intro story. The synopsis for
my tale that I mailed Doc' has to do with a fixer who has lost someone
in the arc, and pulls in all his favours from all his contacts, but
can't find anyone to go in and get them...in the process, he loses his
RL job and his reputation. I had planned to end it on a despairing
note, but if this fits the foot, let's shoe it. The fixer could find
this team, and they either go in after his family member, or they go in
for their own reasons, and refuse to help him. It works either way.
>
> -Murder of One

Actually, Scott, this premise doesn't qualify as an 'intro' to the
shadow team as it only involves them in a peripheral way. So you can
still do this one. Aaron (or whoever) will create the shadow team and
you'll integrate them as needed into your story. 'Kay?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 133 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > If he knows he won't be fullfilling the role of team sniper, then
> wouldn't his "payload" be adjusted for such a situation? The military
> wouldn't give him a weapon assigned for situations that most likely
> won't happen. Why make him lug around a sniper rifle, when he could
> have something more useful...such as another assult rifle. They can
> always trick out HIS assualt rifle with some good optical magnification
> package and such in case he needs to do a sniping shot.
>
> Because they have three assault rifles already, plus an SMG and because
> a sniper rifle doubles as an armour-killer due to that lovely 14S base
> damage (16S with EX Exp :) ). You get something to take down the
> raging-est drone without lugging around a PAC.
>
> Hmmm...probably best if he carries an assault rifle or SMG, PLUS the
> sniper rifle. Sound reasonable?
> ==> Doc'

If the sniper is strong enough -- who NOT give him a PAC? the military would
take one probably - sa its likely they know of or have all the rumours of
what Deus has done or could do..

GreyWolf

*If I had a choice Id take a PAC with me....*

Message no. 134 > Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for
the PAC? ;)
>
> Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is
no more illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle
he'll prolly never use. :P
>
> Tay-Dor
> "Trolls rule!"

*sigh*

I'll never convince you, will I? :)

Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.

Fun is fun, but we need to be realistic.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 135 > > If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
> Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
> >
> > Mockingbird
>
> No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
> you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
> ==> Doc'

Yuppers you did tell me.. but i only just got the email... actually i have
something already.. so hmm.. Il send it priv - but be aware it was started
only 15 mins ago - and that includes thinking time... :)

Cheers,
GreyWolf

Message no. 136 > >Nothing against trolls in particular, but see my recent post to
> >Mockingbird. Trolls with PACs defeat the idea of this kind of team. A
> >small team of fighters will NOT survive, let alone succeed, in the
> >environment of the arc. "Sneaky bastards" have a much better chance.
> >And forgive me, but I don't see a troll with a PAC as a particularly
> >stealthy kinda guy. :)
>
> Even if he has a Stealth of 6 and carries a really big silencer for the PAC?
> ;)
>
> Heck...he could carry it for those "just in case" moments...which is no
more
> illogical than you and your Sniper guy bringing a Sniper rifle he'll prolly
> never use. :P
>
> Tay-Dor
> "Trolls rule!"

He has a point.. ever heard a sniper rifle in closed quarters? Its LOUD!!! let me
tell you.. and add an infinite number of "!'s" on the end there :)

a sniper rifle is not quite a stealthy weapon.. remember after you use it.. youre
position is often toast - unles youre a long way away from the target.. and in
the arc.. you aint gonna be at max range - are ya? :)

GreyWolf

Message no. 137 > >Big plus - no one alive to tell about it = no need for stealth.
> >
>
> >Pinkers
> >
> >The PAC - For when you have to kill every last guy with dermal plating
> >in the room.
>
> Hahahahahahahahahahaha....
>
> PAC - Don't leave the Barrens without it.

No! No! No!

its:

"PAC - Dont LIVE the barrens without it." :)

<grin>

GreyWolf

Message no. 138 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
> lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
> the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
> they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.
>
> Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
> you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
> team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
> however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)
> ==> Doc'

I had the idea of a 7 person team, with one being a decker who was involved
from a remote location to the arc.

human decker / ork drone rigger / troll sam / breeder sam / daisyeater sam
/ breeder physad/ troll or dwarf street mage

i know the file i sent you Rand, said a troll street mage (can you guess
where that idea came from?) but Im having second thoughts.. perhaps to
represent the entire set of metaraces.. but that reason just doesnt cut it
really.. so Im not sure. i think Ill stick to how it is. If you (or anyone
else) has thoughts on hits.. put your hand up and Ill pass you the cream
pie :)

if anyone dies its the ork rigger who (if anyone has to buy it) loses
control of his drones (a couple of nasty steel lynx' amongst others) to
Deus and has a "reall bad day" :) Again please feel free to voice
disagreement so the general body of the list can ridicule your suggestions
and so we will eventually force you to capitulate and go with my original
ideas :)

GreyWolf

* Yuk! You just got hit by that +4 magical Cream Pie! *

Message no. 139 > He has a point.. ever heard a sniper rifle in closed quarters? Its
LOUD!!! let me tell you.. and add an infinite number of "!'s" on the
end there :)
>
> a sniper rifle is not quite a stealthy weapon.. remember after you
use it.. youre position is often toast - unles youre a long way away
from the target.. and in the arc.. you aint gonna be at max range -
are ya? :)
>
> GreyWolf

Well, the arc is pretty big, y'know.

Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 140 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Actually, Scott, this premise doesn't qualify as an 'intro' to the
] shadow team as it only involves them in a peripheral way. So you can
] still do this one. Aaron (or whoever) will create the shadow team and
] you'll integrate them as needed into your story. 'Kay?

Sounds good. Chronology may be a problem, but we'll burn that bridge
while we're crossing it.

-Murder of One

Message no. 141 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
] weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
] HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
] use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
] sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
] covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?

Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
can help us out.

-Murder of One

Message no. 142 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Exactly!
]
] Jeez, Scott, you're doing it to me again.

I see my job, and I do it :)

] These are COVERT OPS teams, not assault teams. They shouldn't be
] lugging around assault cannons and miniguns and heavy machine guns and
] the like. They're not there to wipe out every last drone/blue in sight,
] they're there to do the job as quietly as possible and get out.
]
] Mockingbird, remember that when you're drawing up your proposal. Aaron,
] you don't have to stick to the above religiously in yours, but your
] team should be smart, so they should be equipped "appropriately" -
] however you see "appropriate" to be, of course. :)

To be perfectly honest, I took a hint from Rainbow Six (the game),
where the heaviest weapon you can select is either an M-16 type assault
weapon, or a door-blastin', room-sweepin',
"get-your-lousy-terrorist-hands-UP" shotgun. And I don't think either
are very quiet, so I don't think they're appropriate to the UCAS team's
mission (or the others', for that matter). If the mission style is
low-profile, you might want to stick to the silenceable arms.

-Murder of One

Message no. 143 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > If you don't have any other volunteers, I'll take the Black ops.
> Of course, if anyone else wants it, feel free.
> >
> > Mockingbird
>
> No other volunteers yet. As I told Aaron, I need a synopsis of what
> you'd like to do with the story ASAP.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>

Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it or
not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their staging
area, and then attack them once they are inside.

Mockingbird

Message no. 144 ----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> can help us out.
>
> -Murder of One

Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
(not at home, can't look up the name).

Mockingbird

Message no. 145 Mockingbird wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
> To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!
>
> > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> > loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> > aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> > maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> > can help us out.
> >
> > -Murder of One
>
> Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
> light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
> forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
> (not at home, can't look up the name).
>
> Mockingbird

DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-

Message no. 146 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:26:14 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>*sigh*
>
>I'll never convince you, will I? :)
>

I'm just following your lead. ;)

>
>Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
>realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
>ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
>covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
>CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
>military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.

This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

But you do what ya wanna do since you seem pretty hellbent on doing
it your way.

Tay-Dor
(Fighter of troll Prejudice.)

Message no. 147 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:54:18 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Okay, put it this way. The team will want ONE (count it, ONE) powerful
>weapon for dealing with heavily armoured targets. No PACs. No MMGs,
>HMGs or miniguns. Definitely no missile launchers. So what could they
>use? Seriously, I'm after suggestions here - if they're not using a big
>sniper rifle and the options mentioned above are out because it's a
>covert ops team, not an assault team, what could they use?

Okay...point of information....with the new info we have about The
Red Samurai staging area on the first 5 lvls...any official team going in is
going to have some hard evidence of what to ex[ect -- assuming Renraku tells
UCAS. So a UCAS strike team will know some of what to expect and will be
wanting to be pre-pared incase the stealth mission goes down the dumper.

Tay-Dor
(Generally PAC's don't make sence, but in this case, it does)

Message no. 148 >From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
> Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
>loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
>aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
>maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
>can help us out.

Chem major mode <enable>

Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
matter). Bases don't work so well though.

>
>-Murder of One
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 149 >Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
>light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
>forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
>(not at home, can't look up the name).

White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff

>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 150 lurker mode <disable>

>From: CEvans9159@***.com
> This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
>be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
>who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
>learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

If you were an army recruiter and you ran into a 10 ft tall guy that was
covered in muscle and could really take a beating, where would you want him.
In a covert ops group where combat is not preferred or in a combat unit
where he can use his gifts better (PAC'c and LMG's would be light in a
trolls hands)

lurker mode <enable>

>Tay-Dor
> (Fighter of troll Prejudice.)

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 151 In a message dated 6/16/99 12:43:14 PM, knight_errant30@*******.com writes:

>If you were an army recruiter and you ran into a 10 ft tall guy that was
>covered in muscle and could really take a beating, where would you want
>him.
> In a covert ops group where combat is not preferred or in a combat unit
>where he can use his gifts better (PAC'c and LMG's would be light in a
>trolls hands)

You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
them being kicked out for size.

Tay-Dor

Message no. 152 >From: CEvans9159@***.com
> You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
>aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
>them being kicked out for size.

True but then again, they aren't 10 ft tall (usually) :)

>
>Tay-Dor

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 153 > You have a point...but hey...You ever look at a Navy Seal...they
>aren't small people. Some of them are pretty fraggin' huge. You don't see
>them being kicked out for size.

Also, they would still pick folks for the mission whose strengths would
complement the mission. Your hell raising combat op would not work. Your
infiltration specialist would.

>
>Tay-Dor
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 154 > This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are
big...but who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be
stealthy, you learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

To an extent, yes. But I've never met a large person who can be as
sneaky as a small person. Hell, I'm 6'4" and I can be pretty sneaky if
I try, but it ain't easy. Sorry, I really should have expressed it
better. It's a matter of degrees. Sure, trolls could probably be sneaky
- but not AS sneaky. And as Geoff has pointed out, most trolls are
likely to be in combat squads, not covert-ops squads.

Let me put it this way. To me, it doesn't make sense for a covert ops
team to include a troll. Actually, the team composition I was thinking
of would be entirely made up of humans, with one elf (the mage). The
survivors of the introductory story would be the elf mage and the team
leader. (The rigger, set up in the lower levels of the arcology, is
going to get hit by Renraku Red Samurai at the same time the
infiltration team is hit by the black ops team - Renraku intends to
blame his death on one of Deus' drones that got through their lines.)

Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
killer.

Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES the
fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)

One last thing that counts against trolls (and to a lesser extent,
orks) in this situation. Who knows where the team is going to have to
go. There are certain areas inside the arc that a big guy just wouldn't
fit. Smaller people can use the 'terrain' to better advantage and
they're likely to plan for that, don't you think?

So the team composition ACCORDING TO ME would be:
- female elf mage
- male human team leader (cybered or physad with some cyber)
- male human heavy weapons specialist
- male human samurai
- male human samurai/combat decker
- female human rigger

Any suggestions? Any changes? Any problems?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 155 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."
] >Seriously, though, despite what the game system allows I cannot
] >realistically see a troll as a particularly stealthy kind of guy. I
] >ALSO cannot see a troll on a covert ops team. Finally, I can't see a
] >covert ops team carrying around HMGs and PACs. So I'm not going to
] >CREATE anyone like that or carrying that kind of equipment for the
] >military team, unless I'm totally outvoted on this.
]
] This is utter BS. Makes about as much sence as saying a Troll can't
] be a decker...or a troll can't be a shaman. Okay...sure they are big...but
] who said they couldn't be stealthy. When you learn how to be stealthy, you
] learn to compensate for your size and footsteps, etc.

Yeah, but size can be a factor. You wouldn't want an elephant for
crossing a rope bridge, you'd want a mule. Sure, the elephant's
hardier, stronger, and more fearsome, but the mule is _light_. It's a
question of who's appropriate for the mission (say....if you want a
Troll in there, why not a midget Troll?)

] But you do what ya wanna do since you seem pretty hellbent on doing
] it your way.

Whoa...let's go heavy on the smileys if we're kidding around, and if
not, try to avoid comments that may ruffle feathers. Everyone count to
ten before they hit Send, okay?

-Murder of One

Message no. 156 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Geoffrey Haacke."
] Chem major mode <enable>
]
] Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
] explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
] matter). Bases don't work so well though.

So it's an option. Someone want to use this? UCAS team maybe?
Shadow team? Renraku team?

-Murder of One

Message no. 157 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
] specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
] smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
] MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
] manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
] killer.

Ah, the silent heavy weapon we all couldn't think of. Good stuff!
Mmmmm...Laser...

-Murder of One

Message no. 158 > Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it
or not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their
staging area, and then attack them once they are inside.
> Mockingbird

Unless there are objections, I'd like to have the UCAS throw around a
bit of weight to allow their people to stage out of the arc itself.
What would prevent Renraku attacking them as soon as they get inside is
a) radio contact with the outside (once they go inside, the Renraku
team that attacks them could be blues as far as they know, but on the
first five levels? The UCAS would KNOW something was screwy), plus b)
the support personnel going in with them - the Red Sammies could
probably take out 6 people quickly and quietly, but at least one person
in a group of 20 or more would likely have the chance to get off a
message. Renraku's best bet will be to ambush them inside Deus'
territory - if Deus doesn't get to them first. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 159 > > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't too
> > loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
> > aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
> > maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
> > can help us out.
> >
> > -Murder of One
>
> Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a door,
> light a match, watch it burn through the door). Also, there is the several
> forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt rifles from Street Sam Catalouge
> (not at home, can't look up the name).
>
> Mockingbird

Could always try thermite. I think its very bright - but apparently almost
silent (100% chem reaction.. no fizzly with a flame .. etc).

GreyWolf

Message no. 160 > ] Chem major mode <enable>
> ]
> ] Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without the
> ] explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are another
> ] matter). Bases don't work so well though.
>
> So it's an option. Someone want to use this? UCAS team maybe?
> Shadow team? Renraku team?
>
> -Murder of One

Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one dose of
DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.

Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...

GreyWolf

Message no. 161 > Demolitions. Can't you get some chemical-reacty stuff that isn't
too loud? I don't know, but it's a switch from guns, which obviously
aren't what the doctor ordered, if we're trying to avoid noise. So
maybe someone who knows something about explosive/corrosive compounds
can help us out.
> -Murder of One

Ahh, thought this might be what sparked off the thermite debate. :)

Okay, explosives would be EXTREMELY useful for taking down
leech-reinforced barriers, so I can see all teams having some kind of
demolition expertise. Does anyone on the list know anything about
demolitions so we can get this realistic?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 162 > To be perfectly honest, I took a hint from Rainbow Six (the game),
where the heaviest weapon you can select is either an M-16 type assault
weapon, or a door-blastin', room-sweepin',
"get-your-lousy-terrorist-hands-UP" shotgun. And I don't think either
are very quiet, so I don't think they're appropriate to the UCAS team's
mission (or the others', for that matter). If the mission style is
low-profile, you might want to stick to the silenceable arms.
> -Murder of One

Hmmm...laser for the heavy. Silenced SMGs for everyone else. The team
leader and other cyberbunnies, who can carry the extra weight, also
carry assault rifles (with integral grenade launchers) for if things
get hosed.

How does that sound?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 163 > Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a
door, light a match, watch it burn through the door).

Know exactly how it works, Mockingbird, or are you just going from what
the movies show? :)

Does ANYONE knows exactly how it works? (I'm thinking noise, light
produced, time taken, that kind of thing.)

> Also, there is the several forms of acid (maybe in one of the squirt
rifles from Street Sam Catalouge (not at home, can't look up the name).
> Mockingbird

Okay, what could a powerful, concentrated acid burn through QUICKLY?
Barrier 6? Barrier 8?

Actually, you'd want to use the weapons from Corporate Security
Catalogue. The Ares Squirt II is a pistol (much better than the
original Squirt which was in Shadowtech). There's an "SMG" version of
the Squirt as well (can't remember the name) which fires SMG range
streams of liquid, or shotgun range blasts. That's probably the most
useful in these circumstances. There's also the ELD-AR (something
Liquid Delivery Assault Rifle) - works like an assault rifle, but it
fires large gel capsules containing whatever liquid you want.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 164 > DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
> I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.
> --Strago

It ignores SEMI-PERMEABLE armour. Great against blues who aren't
wearing heavy armour. Absolutely useless against drones.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 165 > Okay...point of information....with the new info we have about The
Red Samurai staging area on the first 5 lvls...any official team going
in is going to have some hard evidence of what to ex[ect -- assuming
Renraku tells UCAS. So a UCAS strike team will know some of what to
expect and will be wanting to be pre-pared incase the stealth mission
goes down the dumper.
> Tay-Dor
> (Generally PAC's don't make sence, but in this case, it does)

Yes, you're right - a PAC certainly WOULD make sense - for an assault
team. That's the thing. Both the UCAS and Renraku teams are covert ops
teams. They get in and get out, hopefully without encountering
resistance. If they DO get into trouble, they don't stand around and
fight it out, they try to disengage and escape.

Lighter weapons are called for. As I said, after thinking about it, I
think a laser would make a good 'heavy' weapon for the squad. What do
you reckon?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 166 > Chem major mode <enable>
>
> Normal explosives would be too loud. Thermite generates heat without
the explosion. Also acids would work on most metals (composites are
another matter). Bases don't work so well though.

Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

Ummm...most construction materials are composites in Shadowrun. The
drones are metal, though - I think. Would a sufficiently strong acid
work fast enough to be a feasible weapon (say if a drone was sprayed in
the acid using one of those 'SMG/Shotgun' liquid sprayers I mentioned).
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 167 > White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff

Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 168 In a message dated 6/16/99 5:48:08 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy weapons
>specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares MPV?) -
>smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also carry an
>MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
>manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
>killer.

Good idea. :)

>
>Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES the
>fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)

Shall I sign ya up for the Humanis membership club card now? ;)

Point taken on size too. :) Looks like a good team

Message no. 169 In a message dated 6/16/99 8:20:59 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
>does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
>what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
>need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

What about carry blow torches...ala Aliens when they sealed the door.
I figure you could cut through the door also. I figure by 2060, they'll
have come up with a blow torch that can cut faster.

Tay-Dor

Message no. 170 In a message dated 6/16/99 8:55:14 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
>making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
>drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

I hear it reaches some pretty good temps and as long as it gets
oxygen, it keeps burning. So it might burn through metal...slowly. The main
problem is getting it to stop...and that ain't happening unless you have a
large quantity of water or something.

Tay-Dor
"But I could be wrong..."

Message no. 171 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one
dose of
] DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.

Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.

] Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
] plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...

Undoubtably.

-Murder of One

Message no. 172 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Hmmm...laser for the heavy. Silenced SMGs for everyone else. The team
] leader and other cyberbunnies, who can carry the extra weight, also
] carry assault rifles (with integral grenade launchers) for if things
] get hosed.
]
] How does that sound?

Sounds realistic. Maybe a non-lethal option too, either gel rounds,
or Narcojet pistols.

-Murder of One

Message no. 173 > >Also, I was thinking of dropping the sniper and taking a 'heavy
weapons specialist' equipped with an advanced military laser (the Ares
MPV?) - smaller, lighter and more damaging than the MPIII. He'd also
carry an MGL12 or MGL6 grenade launcher for backup. Stealthier and more
manoeuvrable than an assault cannon and nearly as good an armour
killer.
>
> Good idea. :)

Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC came
out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56), the
MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only needed
a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist :) )
batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model "MPV"
Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power packs
that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.

> >Now - does anyone have any problems with any of the above BESIDES
the fact that I'm apparently discriminating against trolls? :)
>
> Shall I sign ya up for the Humanis membership club card now? ;)

Hey, some of my best characters...errr...friends are trolls...:)

> Point taken on size too. :) Looks like a good team

Glad you approve. No, really.

8-)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 174 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO DMSO
> > I HATE THE STUFF. IT IGNORES ARMOR.
> > --Strago
>
> It ignores SEMI-PERMEABLE armour. Great against blues who aren't
> wearing heavy armour. Absolutely useless against drones.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
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Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak through
stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my powergaming friends
borrowed it...

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the
chlorine.

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Message no. 175 > What about carry blow torches...ala Aliens when they sealed the
door. I figure you could cut through the door also. I figure by 2060,
they'll have come up with a blow torch that can cut faster.
> Tay-Dor

Hmmm...nice...smaller, hotter, faster.

Still, if you have to get through IMMEDIATELY, explosives of some sort
would be required.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 176 [grunt]
I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and here's my
feedback.
First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of the team
with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.
For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several shotguns
(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression, at least one laser and/or
projectile weapon (such as a bow), and probably an LMG as well. The
projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it would be
just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper rifle without
the weight or kick.
Combat knives all around and an assortment of grenades as well.

Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.

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Message no. 177 > Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak
through stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my
powergaming friends borrowed it...
> --Strago

Errr...you're not thinking of DMSO itself, are you? :)

DMSO opens pores in skin to allow large particles that normally
couldn't get in with just contact to penetrate the skin. It also seeps
through anything up to solid materials (which includes soft armour),
but that's probably just because it's a liquid, although the DMSO
properties might have some effect on the speed at which it works. There
isn't anything else I know of that has an effect like that.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 178 > Sounds realistic. Maybe a non-lethal option too, either gel
rounds, or Narcojet pistols.
>
> -Murder of One

Hmmm...suggestion noted. I think they'd take gel rounds if anything, so
they didn't have to carry too much weight, but narcoject pistols or
squirts wouldn't weigh much more anyway. Hmmm...
==Doc'
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Message no. 179 > [grunt]
> I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and here's
my feedback.
> First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of the team
with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.

Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against drones.
Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp rounds, or
perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire touch.

> For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several shotguns
(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression,

Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade launchers
would be more useful.

> at least one laser and/or projectile weapon (such as a bow),

Definitely a laser. That's the UCAS team's heavy weapon.

> and probably an LMG as well.

Not if the others are carrying assault rifles. They fulfill pretty much
the same function (at least in Shadowrun) and the laser is a better
armour-killer. Anyway, as has been said many times before ( :) ) it's a
covert ops team, not a strike team. I'm trying to keep the weaponry
light. Laser instead of a PAC, assault rifles rather than LMGs etc.
etc.

> The projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it
would be just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper
rifle without the weight or kick.

This is where the laser comes in. Plus, this is a UCAS military team. I
really don't think bows and arrows are going to be standard armament
even for a covert ops team (maybe for the Sioux Wildcats, but not for
the UCAS).

> Combat knives all around and an assortment of
> grenades as well.

Oh yes. Minigrenades rather than grenades - everyone has either an
assault rifle mounting an integral grenade launcher or a MGL12 or MGL6.

> Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.

*shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
- Female elf mage.
- Male human team leader/adept.
- Male human cyberbunny/medic.
- Male human cyberbunny/decker.
- Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
- Female human rigger.
Good point, Hunter.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 180 > So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.

Oops forgot some other stuff.
- Female elf mage.
- Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
- Male human cyberbunny/medic.
- Male human cyberbunny/decker.
- Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
- Female human rigger.

What do you think?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 181 On Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Rand Ratinac
<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
>> [grunt]
>> I've been listening to the debate on weapon selections, and
>here's
>my feedback.
>> First off, you're probably going to be equiping the bulk of
>the team
>with silenced SMGs. Everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) will be carrying a
>pistol (probably a slivergun) as a backup weapon.
>
>Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
>drones.
>Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp rounds, or
>perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire touch.
>
Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the lighter stuff can
be taken down by a slivergun easy.

>> For "heavy weapondry" I'd recommend that it include several
>shotguns
>(SPAS 22's most likely) for area suppression,
>
>Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade launchers
>would be more useful.
>
Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment. With
flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time. Also
useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

>> at least one laser and/or projectile weapon (such as a bow),
>
>Definitely a laser. That's the UCAS team's heavy weapon.
>
>> and probably an LMG as well.
>
>Not if the others are carrying assault rifles. They fulfill pretty
>much
>the same function (at least in Shadowrun) and the laser is a better
>armour-killer. Anyway, as has been said many times before ( :) ) it's
>a
>covert ops team, not a strike team. I'm trying to keep the weaponry
>light. Laser instead of a PAC, assault rifles rather than LMGs etc.
>etc.
>
Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course. Assault rifles
are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment. An SMG is a better
choice.

>> The projectile weapon would probably belong to the adept, given it
>would be just that much nastier and likely as effective as a sniper
>rifle without the weight or kick.
>
>This is where the laser comes in. Plus, this is a UCAS military team.
>I really don't think bows and arrows are going to be standard armament
>even for a covert ops team (maybe for the Sioux Wildcats, but not for
>the UCAS).
>
YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine gunnery sergeant,
btw) who's a bow nut.

>> Combat knives all around and an assortment of
>> grenades as well.
>
>Oh yes. Minigrenades rather than grenades - everyone has either an
>assault rifle mounting an integral grenade launcher or a MGL12 or
>MGL6.
>
Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.

>> Also, I don't recall the mention of a combat medic.
>
>*shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
>they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
>cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
> So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.
>
I manage to get it right every once in a while.

>Oops forgot some other stuff.
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
> - Female human rigger.
>
>What do you think?
>
Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced mix of
male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
[shrugs]
Just my nickel's worth.

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Message no. 182 In a message dated 6/16/99 11:33:01 PM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Oops forgot some other stuff.
>
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept/electronics expert.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist/demolitions expert.
> - Female human rigger.
>
>What do you think?

Hmmm...No trolls but 3 Bunny-Shifters? I'm starting to think
you have something against trolls. ;)

Tay-Dor
(if ya didn't get it...that was a joke. I understand the
"cyberbunny" line.)

Message no. 183 > >Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
drones. Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp
rounds, or perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire
touch.
> >
> Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the lighter stuff
can be taken down by a slivergun easy.

Hmmm...p'raps...

> >Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade
launchers would be more useful.
> >
> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment.
With flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time.
Also useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

Again this comes back to the 'flechette' effect. Slugs would be good
against drones, sure, but shot wouldn't. Remember, drones operate using
vehicle armour rules. Anyway, FA fire and defensive grenades would be
just as good from getting clumps of bad guys.

How about a mix? Everyone has pistols and SMGs. The team leader and the
medic carry assault rifles. The combat decker (with the cyberarm
gyromount I'm going to give him :) ) has a combat shotgun. And the
heavy weapons specialist has his laser.

> Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course. Assault
rifles are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment.

And an LMG isn't? :)

> An SMG is a better choice.

Silenced SMGs as standard, yes.

> YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine gunnery
sergeant, btw) who's a bow nut.

Yes, but would he ever use them in a combat situation or does he just
use them for fun? And do you know of any US military force (special
forces, covert ops or the like) who are ever equipped with bows?

> Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.

Hummm...yeah, gas and offensive would be bad choices in an environment
like the arc, as would willie-pete smoke rounds.

> >Oops forgot some other stuff.
> > - Female elf mage.
> > - Male human team leader/adept/electronics
> expert.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> > - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons
> specialist/demolitions expert.
> > - Female human rigger.
> >
> >What do you think?
> >
> Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced mix of
male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
> [shrugs]
> Just my nickel's worth.

I can understand orks (for extra muscle without being too big), but why
more women? It may be 2060, but I still don't exactly see the UCAS
armed forces as an equal opportunity employer - not for combat roles
anyway. :) The rigger's a woman because she isn't exactly in a "combat"
role, so it doesn't matter. The mage is a woman because you take magic
where you can find it. But I think a 4/2 male/female split in a UCAS
military force would not be unreasonable.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 184 In a message dated 6/16/99 11:46:39 PM, griffinhq@****.com writes:

> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat environment. With
>flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time. Also
>useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.

Flechettes suck unless you are going against a mass of unarmored
targets. otherwise, all they are is an annoyance.

Tay-Dor

Message no. 185 On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 00:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Rand Ratinac
<docwagon101@*****.com> writes:
>> >Slivergun? Not in the arc. They'd be absolutely useless against
>drones. Maybe Colt Manhunters (or the like) packing APDS or EX Exp
>rounds, or perhaps even Ruger Thunderbolts for that lovely burst-fire
>touch.
>> >
>> Not everything you run into will be a drone. And the
>lighter stuff
>can be taken down by a slivergun easy.
>
>Hmmm...p'raps...
>
>> >Why shotguns? I'd think assault rifles with integral grenade
>launchers would be more useful.
>> >
>> Because you're dealing with a close quarters combat
>environment.
>With flechette rounds you'll be able to get more than one at a time.
>Also useful for punching holes in interior walls, doors, etc.
>
>Again this comes back to the 'flechette' effect. Slugs would be good
>against drones, sure, but shot wouldn't. Remember, drones operate
>using
>vehicle armour rules. Anyway, FA fire and defensive grenades would be
>just as good from getting clumps of bad guys.
>
>How about a mix? Everyone has pistols and SMGs. The team leader and
>the
>medic carry assault rifles. The combat decker (with the cyberarm
>gyromount I'm going to give him :) ) has a combat shotgun. And the
>heavy weapons specialist has his laser.
>
[shrug]

>> Assuming that they're using assault rifles of course.
>Assault
>rifles are big, bulky, and unweildy for an urban enviroment.
>
>And an LMG isn't? :)
>
No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
them.

>> An SMG is a better choice.
>
>Silenced SMGs as standard, yes.
>
>> YOu'd be surprised. I've got a friend (who's a marine
>gunnery
>sergeant, btw) who's a bow nut.
>
>Yes, but would he ever use them in a combat situation or does he just
>use them for fun? And do you know of any US military force (special
>forces, covert ops or the like) who are ever equipped with bows?
>
Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy to
maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.

>> Probably a mix of flash, concussion, smoke, and defensive.
>
>Hummm...yeah, gas and offensive would be bad choices in an environment
>like the arc, as would willie-pete smoke rounds.
>
>> >Oops forgot some other stuff.
>> > - Female elf mage.
>> > - Male human team leader/adept/electronics
>> expert.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
>> > - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons
>> specialist/demolitions expert.
>> > - Female human rigger.
>> >
>> >What do you think?
>> >
>> Looks about right, but (personally) I'd use a more balanced
>mix of
>male/female with a couple of orks thrown in for good measure.
>> [shrugs]
>> Just my nickel's worth.
>
>I can understand orks (for extra muscle without being too big), but
>why
>more women? It may be 2060, but I still don't exactly see the UCAS
>armed forces as an equal opportunity employer - not for combat roles
>anyway. :) The rigger's a woman because she isn't exactly in a
>"combat"
>role, so it doesn't matter. The mage is a woman because you take magic
>where you can find it. But I think a 4/2 male/female split in a UCAS
>military force would not be unreasonable.

Ditto.

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Message no. 186 > >And an LMG isn't? :)
> >
> No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
them.

True. Yesss...laser as a heavy weapon, with one combat shotgun as
backup. Two assault rifles w/grenade launchers for suppressive fire.
SMGs for standard ops. And sliverguns as sidearms. Sounds all right to
me.

> Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy
to maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.

Commonplace in an ARCOLOGY? Hmmm...well...

Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 187 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > White Phosphorus as well. Nasty stuff
>
> Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
> making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
> drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

if you light red phosphorus it can easily burn right through a solid metal
(iron/steel) bench about an inch thick, then through the concrete floor,
then through the composite material cieling below, then another steel
bench, then another floor which is about 3 times as thick as the last one..
tehn through the cieling of a steel vault then most of the way through the
floor...

if thats enough of a burn through .. imagine this.. white phos is a LOT
worse.

(Note: this information comes from a chemistry experiment gone wrong.. VERY
wrong!).

GreyWolf

Message no. 188 > ] Shadow team is using thermite, but I was thinking they might have one
> dose of
> ] DMSO to take out anything the thermite cant handle.
>
> Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
> anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
> replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.
>
> ] Its the sister of the leader after all.. Im thinking he would pull the bath
> ] plug and let the money start to gurgle down for this one...
>
> Undoubtably.
>
> -Murder of One

Argh! i didnt mean DMSO.. i meant that other one.. but I cant remember the name..
<exasperated sigh!>

GreyWolf

Message no. 189 > *shrug* Cross-training. The mage would have healing spells (although
> they wouldn't be much use for the cyberbunnies). The non-specialist
> cybergoon would probably have medical training. So the team would be:
> - Female elf mage.
> - Male human team leader/adept.
> - Male human cyberbunny/medic.
> - Male human cyberbunny/decker.
> - Male human cyberbunny/heavy weapons specialist.
> - Female human rigger.
> Good point, Hunter.
> ==> Doc'

***

"Sir, we have movement on the sensors."

"Movement? Where!"

"To the north-east. Near the main walkway between sections alpha and gamma"

"Is it a covert assault team?"

"No Sir, dont think so.. the movements too erratic for most of the blips"

"Erattic?"

"Some strange up/down movement"

"Up and Down movement? What are you talking about soldier!"

"Tally Ho, Sir, we have the enemy in our sights, but they're too fast!"

"Too fast? What do you mean too fast.. this is SOTA gear and cyber youve got and
you say its too fast?"

"Well, you take a look Sir, see if you can hit one"

<looking through binoc's>

"Gawd! NO! its the..."

<drops binoc's and starts to run>

"CYBER BUNNIES!"

***

GreyWolf

Message no. 190 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > >And an LMG isn't? :)
> > >
> > No disagreement, but we're talking about ONE rather than a group of
> them.
>
> True. Yesss...laser as a heavy weapon, with one combat shotgun as
> backup. Two assault rifles w/grenade launchers for suppressive fire.
> SMGs for standard ops. And sliverguns as sidearms. Sounds all right to
> me.
>
> > Not standard issue, no. But it's realistic for a long term/low heat
> missions because it uses ammunition that's easily replaceable and easy
> to maintain. Not to mention rather commonplace.
>
> Commonplace in an ARCOLOGY? Hmmm...well...
>
> Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.

now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of char-concept got
printed :) ).

GreyWolf

Message no. 191 In our last episode, Scott Wheelock wrote:
>
> Whoa...DMSO's not going to help against barriers...it's a
> anti-organic weapon only, right? My idea with the chemicals was to
> replace loud explosives for getting through barriers.

I was wondering.

For an in-depth, medical study of DMSO, check the DMSO Homepage:

http://www.dmso.org/index.html

it should clear up any misconceptions.

--Fenris
______________________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) Fenrir shamans are mean and ruthless
individuals who have a disturbing tendency
to treat others like their next meal.
(>) MitS, pg.158

Message no. 192 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC came
] out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56), the
] MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only needed
] a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist :) )
] batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model "MPV"
] Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power packs
] that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.

I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't said so
yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns. Besides,
that's just waaaay unbalancing.

-Murder of One

Message no. 193 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
]
] <looking through binoc's>
]
] "Gawd! NO! its the..."
]
] <drops binoc's and starts to run>
]
] "CYBER BUNNIES!"
]
] ***

Which, I assume, would have big, nasty, retractable teeth?

:)

-Murder of One

Message no. 194 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
char-concept got
] printed :) ).
]
] GreyWolf

That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
(and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
(since dwarf's been taken :)

-Murder of One

Message no. 195 Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > Isn't there some compound you can combine to make it leak
> through stuff ASAP? I think it's in Shadowtech, but one of my
> powergaming friends borrowed it...
> > --Strago
>
> Errr...you're not thinking of DMSO itself, are you? :)
>

DUH-YUP I was. *sheepish grin* From the way the GM was talking, DMSO was
what knocked us all out last week when that a-hole with the Ares Squirt II
decided to open fire on us in the middle of the fragging Barrens! DMSO was
just what the knockout was BONDED to. I see that now. See? If I'd had
Shadowtech all these electrons would have been saved ;^P. I think I'll blow
up the character just to satisfy my lust for revenge...

> DMSO opens pores in skin to allow large particles that normally
> couldn't get in with just contact to penetrate the skin. It also seeps
> through anything up to solid materials (which includes soft armour),
> but that's probably just because it's a liquid, although the DMSO
> properties might have some effect on the speed at which it works. There
> isn't anything else I know of that has an effect like that.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
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--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+)
gm+ M-

Message no. 196 Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
> ] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
> ] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
> char-concept got
> ] printed :) ).
> ]
> ] GreyWolf
>
> That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
> like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
> (and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
> doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
> just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
> (since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

Go with the Troll! Maybe he thinks he's Robin Hood, so that's why he is so
good with the bow. Just think . . . a TROLL with a STRENGTH OF 15 after muscle aug
who's got a Bow skill of 6. If he dikoted the arrows, that's some serious
smacking. I like it. I also like the image of the Troll with a charisma of 1
running around in a green tunic and green hose, just like the "Merry Men" did. I
don't know if people would like the stench surrounding him, though...

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

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Message no. 197 >Geoff, I've heard something about thermite working that way because it
>does a slow burn (comparitively speaking). Any more data on that? Also,
>what does thermite look like? How is it packaged? How much would you
>need to open a door? etc. etc. etc.

I don't know to much about thermire (they won't teach me how to make it in
the lab :). I do know that it puts out a LOT of heat. It is in grenade
form and as a "plastic" i think. It would probably work like white
phosphorus i would imagine.

>
>Ummm...most construction materials are composites in Shadowrun. The
>drones are metal, though - I think. Would a sufficiently strong acid
>work fast enough to be a feasible weapon (say if a drone was sprayed in
>the acid using one of those 'SMG/Shotgun' liquid sprayers I mentioned).

Depends on the acid. Normal HCl would be slow. Chromic Acid (say Chromerge
from Fisher) or Aqua Regia would work much faster. However, it should be
noted that strong acids are VERY dangerous to carry around in large
quantities.

>==>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>..sig Sauer
>_________________________________________________________
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>
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

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Message no. 198 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > Have it in 24, 12 if its lonely at work today. Are we going with the
> stealth UCAS or the "we're using your staging area wether you like it
> or not" approach. I could see Renraku agree to allow them to use their
> staging area, and then attack them once they are inside.
> > Mockingbird
>
> Unless there are objections, I'd like to have the UCAS throw around a
> bit of weight to allow their people to stage out of the arc itself.
> What would prevent Renraku attacking them as soon as they get inside is
> a) radio contact with the outside (once they go inside, the Renraku
> team that attacks them could be blues as far as they know, but on the
> first five levels? The UCAS would KNOW something was screwy), plus b)
> the support personnel going in with them - the Red Sammies could
> probably take out 6 people quickly and quietly, but at least one person
> in a group of 20 or more would likely have the chance to get off a
> message. Renraku's best bet will be to ambush them inside Deus'
> territory - if Deus doesn't get to them first. :)
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
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> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>

Actually, that is exactly what I meant.

Mockingbird

Message no. 199 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 1999 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> > Magnesium det cord possibly. The stuff the movies like using (line a
> door, light a match, watch it burn through the door).
>
> Know exactly how it works, Mockingbird, or are you just going from what
> the movies show? :)
>

Behind the scenes show actually, from what I recall, it burns REALLY REALLY
hot, and thereby melts whatever it is attached to. I can try to dig up some
info if noone else is an expert.

Mockingbird

Message no. 200 ----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 2:55 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Hey, don't they make collapsible bows these days? That could be useful.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>

Hi,
Don't know what you mean by collapsible, the make take downs (where the
arms are removable) but these wouldn't be realistic in a combat situation.
Mine takes about five minutes too attach the arms and string, though if it
has a quick release where the limbs just need to be inserted, then it might
be feasible on a recurve, but not on a compound. I just looked at the Bear
web site ( http://www.beararch.com ) and they just announced a new compound
that is 32" axle to axle and 3 1/4 lbs in weight.

Mockingbird

Message no. 201 ----- Original Message -----
From: Strago <strago@***.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] A result!!

> Go with the Troll! Maybe he thinks he's Robin Hood, so that's why he
is so
> good with the bow. Just think . . . a TROLL with a STRENGTH OF 15 after
muscle aug
> who's got a Bow skill of 6. If he dikoted the arrows, that's some serious
> smacking. I like it. I also like the image of the Troll with a charisma of
1
> running around in a green tunic and green hose, just like the "Merry Men"
did. I
> don't know if people would like the stench surrounding him, though...
>
> --
> --Strago

Lemme guess, his street name would be Little John wouldn't it? :)

Mockingbird

Message no. 202 In a message dated 6/17/99 2:39:03 AM, sparrow@***.net.au writes:

>now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but
>not a troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
char-concept
>got printed :) ).

Why not a troll with a bow? A troll with a Ranger X-bow and a high
strength has a longer range than a sniper rifle! Much quieter too. :)

Tay-Dor
"Defender of Troll-Rights."
"hell...after all this, my story is definitely going to have to have
a troll as the main character." :)

Message no. 203 >Indeed it is, but I was under the impression it was only useful for
>making smoke and burning people badly. Would it have any effect against
>drones? Or against doors or walls you're trying to bust open?

If it can generate that much heat, it can also burn/melt inanimate objects.
(check out the beginning of Preying for Keeps for a good example).

>==>Doc'
>(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
>..sig Sauer
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 204 >Behind the scenes show actually, from what I recall, it burns REALLY REALLY
>hot, and thereby melts whatever it is attached to. I can try to dig up
>some
>info if noone else is an expert.

Also, magnesium fires cannot be extinguished by water. Water react with the
hot Mg, releasing more energy.

>
>Mockingbird
>
>
>

Geoff Haacke
"if you not part of the solution then you are part of the precipitate."

______________________________________________________
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Message no. 205 > ] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when the SSC
came out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055 (or 56),
the MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version only
needed a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around your waist
:) ) batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061 model
"MPV" Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it has power
packs that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.
>
> I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't said so
yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns. Besides,
that's just waaaay unbalancing.
>
> -Murder of One

Yes, but I'm not worried about unbalancing, as it's just for the story.
Hmmm...okay. Smaller, lighter, higher-powered, but still requiring
belt-mounted batteries.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 206 > I was wondering.
>
> For an in-depth, medical study of DMSO, check the
> DMSO Homepage:
>
> http://www.dmso.org/index.html
>
> it should clear up any misconceptions.

Err...I don't have the time to read it all. Can someone give me a precis?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 207 Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
> ] now that you mention it.. I might have the shadow team use a bow.. but not a
> ] troll with a bow.. (though that would be cool if that kind of
> char-concept got
> ] printed :) ).
> ]
> ] GreyWolf
>
> That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
> like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
> (and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
> doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
> just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
> (since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a bow as a
weapon when not spellcasting! :)

ppl like that idea?

GreyWolf

Message no. 208 |> ] Which brings me to another question. In 2051 (2050?), when
the SSC
|came out, the MP Laser required a backpack powerpack. In 2055
(or 56),
|the MPIII Laser was featured in Fields of Fire and that version
only
|needed a pair of belt-mounted (i.e. they go on a belt around
your waist
|:) ) batteries. Do you think it'd be reasonable for the 2061
model
|"MPV" Laser to have an integral powerpack? In other words, it
has power
|packs that are mounted like (large) clips in the weapon itself.
|>
|> I don't think that'd be the case (mostly 'cause FASA hasn't
said so
|yet). I think you'd reach a point of diminishing returns.
Besides,
|that's just waaaay unbalancing.
|>
|> -Murder of One
|
|Yes, but I'm not worried about unbalancing, as it's just for
the story.
|Hmmm...okay. Smaller, lighter, higher-powered, but still
requiring
|belt-mounted batteries.
|==|Doc'

hey doc, good idea, but i don't know if you would want to do
that. we all complain enough when the real writers of shadowrun
novels take license with the game mechanics, let us try to not
do the same thing. keep the MP laser as it is in FOF. in the
end, to have it as it is in FOF, will it really affect the story
that much?

-------------------------------------------------------------
k. david hayes
masquerades@****.com
www.members.home.net/masquerades
-------------------------------------------------------------
managing editor
ouc phoenix, kelowna b.c.
phoenix@******.bc.ca
www.oucsak.bc.ca/phoenix
-------------------------------------------------------------
campus plus board rep
western region
-------------------------------------------------------------

Message no. 209 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Aaron Binns."
] Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a bow as a
] weapon when not spellcasting! :)
]
] ppl like that idea?

Why not a mage? I don'lllllllllllllllllllllll999999999999999kiiiiiio
ack, sorry, kitten on the keyboard. Sounds good, I guess. I'm kinda
impartial about the whole team makeup thing, 'cause it's really more
important to the writers what the core thread characters _do_, not are.

-Murder of One

Message no. 210 > hey doc, good idea, but i don't know if you would want to do that. we
all complain enough when the real writers of shadowrun novels take
license with the game mechanics, let us try to not do the same thing.
keep the MP laser as it is in FOF. in the end, to have it as it is in
FOF, will it really affect the story that much?
> k. david hayes

Errr, well, no - but it effects the premise. Like I said, FoF came out
in 2055 at which point the MPIII was coming onto the open market and
we're talking 6 years later. And this is a TOP military team. I think
they'd have better weaponry by 2061. Maybe not an Ares MPV, but
certainly something better than the MPIII. Ever heard the term
'milspec'? :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 211 "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Rand Ratinac."
] Errr, well, no - but it effects the premise. Like I said, FoF came out
] in 2055 at which point the MPIII was coming onto the open market and
] we're talking 6 years later. And this is a TOP military team. I think
] they'd have better weaponry by 2061. Maybe not an Ares MPV, but
] certainly something better than the MPIII. Ever heard the term
] 'milspec'? :)

Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the street
model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient." That
sort of thing.

-Murder of One

Message no. 212 > if you light red phosphorus it can easily burn right through a solid
metal (iron/steel) bench about an inch thick, then through the concrete
floor, then through the composite material cieling below, then another
steel bench, then another floor which is about 3 times as thick as the
last one.. tehn through the cieling of a steel vault then most of the
way through the floor...
>
> if thats enough of a burn through .. imagine this.. white phos is a
LOT worse.
>
> (Note: this information comes from a chemistry experiment gone
wrong.. VERY wrong!).
>
> GreyWolf

Hmmm, yeah...well, that's all very well and good, but phosphorus starts
burning at any exposure to air. I think any smart military people or
runners would use weapons on the bad guys and explosives (thermite,
prolly) to open things quietly, or maybe a bit of acid.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 213 > <drops binoc's and starts to run>
>
> "CYBER BUNNIES!"
>
> ***
>
> GreyWolf

You suck.

8-)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 214 > That'd be the most sensible place for such an unorthodox weapon. I
like the bow idea :) One of the main characters in a story I'm writing
(and one of my favourite characters) is a dwarf using a bow. And it
doesn't need to be the stereotypical "adept with bow" either, it can
just be a cybered character. I'd say an ork would be a good choice
(since dwarf's been taken :)
>
> -Murder of One

I'd agree. Bows can be fun, but they're not exactly a weapon of choice
compared to an SMG or assault rifle in the arc. In a situation where it
could be useful, the laser could be just as good. Maybe not with a
troll on the team, but with anyone else, yes.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 215 > I don't know to much about thermire (they won't teach me how to make
it in the lab :). I do know that it puts out a LOT of heat. It is in
grenade form and as a "plastic" i think. It would probably work like
white phosphorus i would imagine.

Robert! Robert Sanders!! Don't suppose you happen to know anything
about thermite, do you? Like, how it's used in the military etc?

> Depends on the acid. Normal HCl would be slow. Chromic Acid (say
Chromerge from Fisher) or Aqua Regia would work much faster. However,
it should be noted that strong acids are VERY dangerous to carry around
in large quantities.
> Geoff Haacke

Yeah - like I said, thermite would probably be a better bet for
breaking things in most cases.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 216 > I can try to dig up some info if noone else is an expert.
>Mockingbird

Could you? Could prove useful.

Doc'
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 217 > I can try to dig up some info if noone else is an expert.
>Mockingbird

Could you? Could prove useful.

Doc'
==Doc'
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Message no. 218 > Hey I got it!, the mage is gone.. its now a human shaman who uses a
bow as a weapon when not spellcasting! :)
>
> ppl like that idea?
>
> GreyWolf

Well...an Amerindian shaman would certainly have leanings in the
projectile direction.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 219 > Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the street
model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient." That
sort of thing.
>
> -Murder of One

Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Give it some made up model
number etc.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 220 |> Make it really ambiguous, then. "It's years ahead of the
street
|model, that's for sure. More compact, and way more efficient."
That
|sort of thing.
|>
|> -Murder of One
|
|Yeah, that's probably the best way to do it. Give it some made
up model
|number etc.
|==|Doc'

don't even need to have a model number, if it is brought up at
all, just make a casual reference to the fact that this is one
of the newest toys out there, and 'man does it pack a fraggin'
punch!'. <grin>

david

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