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Message no. 1
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:44:17 -0700 (PDT)
Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )

So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
exactly the two threads are to consist of.

As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.

Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
better. :)

So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 2
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:46:37 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 12:41:08 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
>Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
>to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
>wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
>around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
>the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
>belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
>that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
>better. :)
>
>So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
>core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?


I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T want
Dr. Cliber?
This would make things more interesting as both teams race against
each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually find her. The
"losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand kind of thing against
the drones and other nasties.

Tay-Dor

"Sleep? What is sleep? Ah yes, I remember now...tis something that
meat bodies do."
Message no. 3
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:51:17 +1000
> Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
>
> So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> exactly the two threads are to consist of.
>
> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>
> Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
> Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
> to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
> wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
> around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
> the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
> belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
> that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
> better. :)

Of course you do 'Doc :)

Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate both
your idea and Strago's idea.

The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
getting Dr Ciber)
The military team who want to get the serum for the leeches, get leeches
for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in their way.

Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)

If its just a two thread storyline Id go with the shadow team and the
renraku team.. reguardless of what they are after. Military is too
strictured.

GreyWolf
Message no. 4
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
> I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T
want Dr. Cliber?
> This would make things more interesting as both teams race
against each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually
find her. The "losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand
kind of thing against the drones and other nasties.
>
> Tay-Dor

Hmmm...hmmm...

Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
(IMO).

The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
to mind) usually don't go over so well.

Apart from that, yeah, it's an interesting idea.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 5
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:02:49 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 12:57:05 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Hmmm...hmmm...
>
>Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
>think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
>because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
>(IMO).

No more difficult that running the two plot lines of your devising,
oh tyrannical overlord. ;) (see smiley)

>
>The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
>this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
>essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
>the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
>shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
>to mind) usually don't go over so well.

What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic slant?
Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen. Nobody
said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they wouldn't find
themselves in a situation where they can be altruistic...ie helping the
resistance, etc. C'mon...use your imagination..

Tay-Dor
"Torrential Fireballs comming on-line." -- KODT
Message no. 6
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
> Of course you do 'Doc :)
>
> Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate
both your idea and Strago's idea.
>
> The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
getting Dr Ciber) The military team who want to get the serum for the
leeches, get leeches for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in
their way.
>
> Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)

Yeah, it COULD, but I think it might be a bit too complicated.

When this was brought up before, I rejected it out of hand. Single
thread anthologies have been done before. Two thread anthologies
haven't (AFAIK) and would prove challenging to coordinate. Three
threads...well, I think that'd get TOO complex and in order to bring
all the threads to a satisfactory conclusion would require just a tad
too much coincidence.

Well, anyway, if you guys like the idea and want to put in the work,
I'll give it a go - but I think a two thread anthology will be
challenge enough, considering that most, if not all of us, have never
tried something like this before.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, Aaron, but I'm ambitious - I'm not
crazy. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 7
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
> No more difficult that running the two plot lines of your devising,
oh tyrannical overlord. ;) (see smiley)

Errr...didn't mean difficult so much as that I think the build-up would
require more stories. I could be wrong, though.

> What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic
slant?

Errr..."Run Hard, Die Fast". The Secret of Power trilogy. Dragon Heart
saga. There are others, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.
Beside the point, though.

> Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen.
Nobody said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they
wouldn't find themselves in a situation where they can be
altruistic...ie helping the resistance, etc. C'mon...use your
imagination..
> Tay-Dor

True. I just think the contrast between the selfish and the selfless
would be interesting and out of the ordinary. Also, if we go with the
'both teams after Cliber' idea, we lose the drama and pathos of the
team having to decide whether to save their tortured pal.

On the other hand, we might be able to keep that plus the conflict by
going with the 'both teams after Cliber' concept, but then, as the
shadow team searches the zombie pens for Cliber, they find one of their
friends in the position I've mentioned previously. Hmmm...

Anyway, my vote is still with my original concept - but that's just my
vote.

Thus sayeth the tyrannical overlord. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 8
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:18:20 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 1:14:44 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>On the other hand, we might be able to keep that plus the conflict by
>going with the 'both teams after Cliber' concept, but then, as the
>shadow team searches the zombie pens for Cliber, they find one of their
>friends in the position I've mentioned previously. Hmmm...


See...I knew you could do it. :)

Tay-Dor
"I fall 900 feet into molten Lava and die? But dude! I got +4
Leather Armor!"
Message no. 9
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:48:05 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."

<snip both teams going after Cliber>

] >The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
] >this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
] >essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
] >the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
] >shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
] >to mind) usually don't go over so well.
]
] What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic slant?
] Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen. Nobody
] said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they wouldn't find
] themselves in a situation where they can be altruistic...ie helping the
] resistance, etc. C'mon...use your imagination..

Well, there's the altruistic thing, but that's been mentioned. I'll
move on :)
Cliber is a major character, I gather (I've got to get that
book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams are
going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
a good plot device if we went with it.

-Murder of One
Message no. 10
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:40:17 -0400
Aaron Binns wrote:

> > Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> > concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> > or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
> >
> > So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> > exactly the two threads are to consist of.
> >
> > As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> > Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> > after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> > Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> > import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
> >
> > Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
> > Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
> > to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
> > wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
> > around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
> > the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
> > belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
> > that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
> > better. :)
>
> Of course you do 'Doc :)
>
> Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate both
> your idea and Strago's idea.
>
> The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
> The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
> getting Dr Ciber)
> The military team who want to get the serum for the leeches, get leeches
> for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in their way.
>
> Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)
>
> If its just a two thread storyline Id go with the shadow team and the
> renraku team.. reguardless of what they are after. Military is too
> strictured.
>
> GreyWolf

Three threads would work, but they'd make the project even more ambitious.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that my idea should be an
independent story. I even know how I can tie in the other threads: in the
book, all people who are being experimented on are "leeched" to the
experiment tables. It would be more humane to get the serum and use it on the
person the shadow team is after. So the shadow team sort-of hooks up with the
Resistance to get the serum. The shadow team gets the serum and goes bye-bye,
while the Resistance starts to get crushed. Oh, and could I have Deus
laughing over speakers in the walls while the Resistance gets blown away?

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-
Message no. 11
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:42:08 -0400
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
> renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
> competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T
> want Dr. Cliber?
>

Both could be hired to find Dr. Cliber, but the Shadow team could discover
that a relative or girlfriend or contact or whatever is trapped inside, so
they decide to go after Cliber AND the person. That way they are a little
more moral . . .

> > This would make things more interesting as both teams race
> against each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually
> find her. The "losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand
> kind of thing against the drones and other nasties.
> >
> > Tay-Dor
>
> Hmmm...hmmm...
>
> Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
> think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
> because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
> (IMO).
>
> The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
> this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
> essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
> the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
> shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
> to mind) usually don't go over so well.
>
> Apart from that, yeah, it's an interesting idea.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-
Message no. 12
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:49:32 -0400
Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."
> <SNIPPY>
>
> Cliber is a major character, I gather

Dr. Vanessa Cliber is the mad scientist who created Deus. She'd know how to turn
him off. Of course, she's a member of the Resistance, now.

> (I've got to get that
> book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
> both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
> and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
> story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
> 'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
> The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams are
> going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
> each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
> a good plot device if we went with it.
>
> -Murder of One



--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 13
From: Ahuizotl cuellare@***.telmex.net.mx
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:36:02 -0500
Rand Ratinac escribió:
>
> Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
>
> So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> exactly the two threads are to consist of.
>
> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
...
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>
> Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
....
> better. :)
>
> So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
> core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?

No suggestion about the core thread, my vote is with the first option


Ahuizotl
Message no. 14
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:16:50 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 2:44 AM
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.


> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>

Hi,
My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral decision,
while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target is a
relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e. parent if
relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave the
body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby not
letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative, thereby
greatly increasing their chances of escape?

Just a thought,
Mockingbird
Message no. 15
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:41:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Cliber is a major character, I gather (I've got to get that
book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

No, Scott's right about this. This is something I forgot to mention
yesterday. If we go with the "both teams after Cliber" idea, then they
BOTH are going to fail. Getting Cliber out is a bit beyond our scope if
we want to be published. What THAT means is that neither team will
ever, in fact, be able to come into contact with Cliber. If you've read
RA:S, you'll know that Cliber is a "me, me, me, mine, mine, mine" kind
of person. She's too selfish to pass up the chance to get out of the
arc, so if she DID link up with either team, she'd leave - and like I
said, that's something we can't do.


> The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams
are going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
a good plot device if we went with it.
> -Murder of One

Yes, that certainly could be interesting. Like I said though, if both
teams are after Cliber, then both of them are going to fail in their
missions. Do we want to do this? If so, what are we going to do so the
book isn't entirely futile and depressing? I suggested we could link in
part of my idea (having the shadow team find a friend/relative/lover
etc. and getting them out). Any other ideas?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 16
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Three threads would work, but they'd make the project even more
ambitious. The more I think about it, the more I realize that my idea
should be an independent story. I even know how I can tie in the other
threads: in the book, all people who are being experimented on are
"leeched" to the experiment tables.

Correct.

> It would be more humane to get the serum and use it on the person the
shadow team is after.

Also correct - although my intention was that the shadow team wouldn't
KNOW of the condition of the person they're after, just that they're in
the arc. I don't think that, from the outside, they'd be able to find
out exactly what situation their target is in.

> So the shadow team sort-of hooks up with the Resistance to get the
serum. The shadow team gets the serum and goes bye-bye, while the
Resistance starts to get crushed. Oh, and could I have Deus laughing
over speakers in the walls while the Resistance gets blown away?
> --Strago

Errr...a) I can't see Deus laughing - it's methodical and determined,
not sadistic, and b) the shadowrunners are supposed to be the HEROES.
They're the ones the readers are supposed to identify with and they're
the ones who have a chance of succeeding in their mission. Screwing the
Resistance is a no-no (IMO).

My suggestion is still that the remaining Renraku personnel hook up
with the Resistance and they agree to aid the Resistance in getting the
serum in return for the Resistance helping them find Cliber.

BUT - if you really want the shadow team doing it, try this for size.
At some point in time they find out that their target is being
experimented on and that they're 'leeched' down. They hook up with the
Resistance, who also wants the leech serum and make a deal. They help
each other, they get enough to free their target and the Resistance
gets the rest. Running battle starts - at some point in time, the
Resistance members and the shadow team split up. Shadow team gets away,
Resistance members (mostly) escape - but THEIR guy carrying the formula
gets blasted into crispy bits - along with the serum. So only the
runners have the serum and they haven't CONSCIOUSLY screwed over the
Resistance. They use the serum to free their target and get out - and
the serum is now, once again, only in the hands of Deus.

Now, I think it's a bit weaker than the other way around (personally,
if I had to do it, I'd stuff taking the risks to get the serum, knock
the target out with drugs or magic, rip them off the table, then
magically heal them - quicker and a lot safer for those involved,
except maybe the target), but that's one way we could do it.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 17
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
> > Cliber is a major character, I gather
>
> Dr. Vanessa Cliber is the mad scientist who created Deus. She'd know
how to turn him off. Of course, she's a member of the Resistance, now.
> Strago

Yes and no. She's ONE of the creators (along with Sherman Huang and
another guy - plus their teams of programmers, I'm sure) of the AEP
(Arcology Expert Program). They also hacked up the AI Morgan (from the
"Secrets of Power" trilogy) and used a lot of her code in the AEP. And
Deus spawned from the AEP.

Cliber DOESN'T know how to turn Deus off - otherwise I'm sure she would
have done it. It's the same as what happened with Morgan. Somehow an AI
managed to...come into being. The programmers don't know how or why, so
they certainly don't know how to destroy it or even shut it down.
They're probably the only ones who have a chance of figuring out how,
though.

Yes, she's a member of the Resistance. I'm sure she'd bug out if she
got the chance, though. That's the kind of person she is, according to RA:S.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 18
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 00:07:36 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
] Hi,
] My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral decision,
] while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target is a
] relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e. parent if
] relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave the
] body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby not
] letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative, thereby
] greatly increasing their chances of escape?

Sounds like a neat idea! Remember it for when we start hashing out
what happens in each of the core runs (at this point, we still haven't
even decided exactly what the missions are).

-Murder of One
Message no. 19
From: Demonnic Bloodbather demonnic@*********.net
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:28:33 +1200
Well, just finished the gruelling process of changing ISPs... and I'm
finding this one to be more amiable towards massive amounts of data
being transferred across their connections. Story line thoughts:

Team 1: Renraku Black Ops - Slips inside the SPIRE without a single
hitch... smooth as a baby's rounded, scented, powdered bum. 30 feet
inside the SPIRE, a good 75+% get toasted in a drone/blue attack while
some of the less experienced black ops are boasting to themselves. (I've
always liked that bit of nastiness to characters... I'm a sadist, and my
characters are my playthings, muhahahaha) They hook up with the
resistance because they desperately need help finding Cliber, whom
they've come to extract. Also because their entrance was sealed behind
them.

Team 2: Shadow team - This team knows itself. They work together like a
well oiled machine... the only problem is, there's a son-sized monkey
wrench in the de facto leader's cog. Seems the kid was staying with his
mother, who, you guessed it, lived in the SPIRE. So they go in to get
him out. They have some trouble getting in, but due to their ingenuity
and the fact that they're used to trusting their instincts for survival,
they take minor damage, no fatalities. <insert other interesting stuff
as they search for this kid> ... They find the kid, only to find out
he's been tested by Deus, and is now an otaku, but not yet banded.
<insert lots of father abandonment issues here, plus a sprinkling of
dilemma about having to kill your own kid it if comes down to it.>

Just some ideas for the central plot lines.

Oh yeah, this does mean I'm all for the 2 main plot lines running
through the stories. If the leech serum thing is used, it could perhaps
be worked in as a trade to the Resistance for information on where
Cliber is.

--
Demonnic
'Non Illegitimi Carborundum Est'
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Message no. 20
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
> Just some ideas for the central plot lines.
>
> Oh yeah, this does mean I'm all for the 2 main plot lines running
through the stories. If the leech serum thing is used, it could perhaps
be worked in as a trade to the Resistance for information on where
Cliber is.
> Demonnic

Don't lose this - bring it up again if we decide to go with that
option.

Will talk more later. Rushed. Gotta be quick. Sorry.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 21
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:54:25 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.


> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
> ] Hi,
> ] My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral
decision,
> ] while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target
is a
> ] relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e.
parent if
> ] relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave
the
> ] body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby
not
> ] letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative,
thereby
> ] greatly increasing their chances of escape?
>
> Sounds like a neat idea! Remember it for when we start hashing out
> what happens in each of the core runs (at this point, we still haven't
> even decided exactly what the missions are).
>
> -Murder of One
>

Hi,
Since we seem to now be at the part where the core runs are being
decided, I thought I'd repost this. Use it, ignore it, I don't care.

Mockingbird
Message no. 22
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 00:44:17 -0700 (PDT)
Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )

So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
exactly the two threads are to consist of.

As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.

Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
better. :)

So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 23
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 03:46:37 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 12:41:08 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
>Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
>to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
>wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
>around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
>the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
>belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
>that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
>better. :)
>
>So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
>core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?


I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T want
Dr. Cliber?
This would make things more interesting as both teams race against
each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually find her. The
"losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand kind of thing against
the drones and other nasties.

Tay-Dor

"Sleep? What is sleep? Ah yes, I remember now...tis something that
meat bodies do."
Message no. 24
From: Aaron Binns sparrow@***.net.au
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:51:17 +1000
> Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
>
> So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> exactly the two threads are to consist of.
>
> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>
> Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
> Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
> to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
> wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
> around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
> the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
> belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
> that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
> better. :)

Of course you do 'Doc :)

Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate both
your idea and Strago's idea.

The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
getting Dr Ciber)
The military team who want to get the serum for the leeches, get leeches
for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in their way.

Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)

If its just a two thread storyline Id go with the shadow team and the
renraku team.. reguardless of what they are after. Military is too
strictured.

GreyWolf
Message no. 25
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:00:10 -0700 (PDT)
> I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T
want Dr. Cliber?
> This would make things more interesting as both teams race
against each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually
find her. The "losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand
kind of thing against the drones and other nasties.
>
> Tay-Dor

Hmmm...hmmm...

Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
(IMO).

The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
to mind) usually don't go over so well.

Apart from that, yeah, it's an interesting idea.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 26
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:02:49 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 12:57:05 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>Hmmm...hmmm...
>
>Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
>think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
>because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
>(IMO).

No more difficult that running the two plot lines of your devising,
oh tyrannical overlord. ;) (see smiley)

>
>The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
>this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
>essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
>the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
>shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
>to mind) usually don't go over so well.

What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic slant?
Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen. Nobody
said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they wouldn't find
themselves in a situation where they can be altruistic...ie helping the
resistance, etc. C'mon...use your imagination..

Tay-Dor
"Torrential Fireballs comming on-line." -- KODT
Message no. 27
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:03:03 -0700 (PDT)
> Of course you do 'Doc :)
>
> Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate
both your idea and Strago's idea.
>
> The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
getting Dr Ciber) The military team who want to get the serum for the
leeches, get leeches for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in
their way.
>
> Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)

Yeah, it COULD, but I think it might be a bit too complicated.

When this was brought up before, I rejected it out of hand. Single
thread anthologies have been done before. Two thread anthologies
haven't (AFAIK) and would prove challenging to coordinate. Three
threads...well, I think that'd get TOO complex and in order to bring
all the threads to a satisfactory conclusion would require just a tad
too much coincidence.

Well, anyway, if you guys like the idea and want to put in the work,
I'll give it a go - but I think a two thread anthology will be
challenge enough, considering that most, if not all of us, have never
tried something like this before.

Don't mean to rain on your parade, Aaron, but I'm ambitious - I'm not
crazy. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 28
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 01:17:56 -0700 (PDT)
> No more difficult that running the two plot lines of your devising,
oh tyrannical overlord. ;) (see smiley)

Errr...didn't mean difficult so much as that I think the build-up would
require more stories. I could be wrong, though.

> What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic
slant?

Errr..."Run Hard, Die Fast". The Secret of Power trilogy. Dragon Heart
saga. There are others, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.
Beside the point, though.

> Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen.
Nobody said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they
wouldn't find themselves in a situation where they can be
altruistic...ie helping the resistance, etc. C'mon...use your
imagination..
> Tay-Dor

True. I just think the contrast between the selfish and the selfless
would be interesting and out of the ordinary. Also, if we go with the
'both teams after Cliber' idea, we lose the drama and pathos of the
team having to decide whether to save their tortured pal.

On the other hand, we might be able to keep that plus the conflict by
going with the 'both teams after Cliber' concept, but then, as the
shadow team searches the zombie pens for Cliber, they find one of their
friends in the position I've mentioned previously. Hmmm...

Anyway, my vote is still with my original concept - but that's just my
vote.

Thus sayeth the tyrannical overlord. :)
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 29
From: CEvans9159@***.com CEvans9159@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 04:18:20 EDT
In a message dated 6/1/99 1:14:44 AM, docwagon101@*****.com writes:

>On the other hand, we might be able to keep that plus the conflict by
>going with the 'both teams after Cliber' concept, but then, as the
>shadow team searches the zombie pens for Cliber, they find one of their
>friends in the position I've mentioned previously. Hmmm...


See...I knew you could do it. :)

Tay-Dor
"I fall 900 feet into molten Lava and die? But dude! I got +4
Leather Armor!"
Message no. 30
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:48:05 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."

<snip both teams going after Cliber>

] >The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
] >this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
] >essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
] >the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
] >shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
] >to mind) usually don't go over so well.
]
] What shadowrun novel/adventure starts with a purely altruistic slant?
] Shadowrunners take the jobs they take, cos they pay LOTS of nuyen. Nobody
] said just because they are hired to find Cliber, that they wouldn't find
] themselves in a situation where they can be altruistic...ie helping the
] resistance, etc. C'mon...use your imagination..

Well, there's the altruistic thing, but that's been mentioned. I'll
move on :)
Cliber is a major character, I gather (I've got to get that
book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams are
going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
a good plot device if we went with it.

-Murder of One
Message no. 31
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:40:17 -0400
Aaron Binns wrote:

> > Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> > concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> > or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
> >
> > So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> > exactly the two threads are to consist of.
> >
> > As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> > Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> > after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> > Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> > import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
> >
> > Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
> > Renraku/military team, but he wanted the shadow team to have been hired
> > to grab the 'serum' that dissolves the leeches. Now, I think this
> > wouldn't work, for reasons stated earlier, BUT, if we switched things
> > around a bit, it would become feasible. (Perhaps one team belongs to
> > the military and they're going after the leech serum and the other team
> > belongs to Renraku and they're going after Cliber and Co.) Anyway,
> > that's just a suggestion for how to work it. I still like my idea
> > better. :)
>
> Of course you do 'Doc :)
>
> Anyway.. Whats wrong with three threads? This way you can accomodate both
> your idea and Strago's idea.
>
> The shadow team is after a dearly loved person they all want to save.
> The Renraku team - who is after some way to get rid of Deus (including
> getting Dr Ciber)
> The military team who want to get the serum for the leeches, get leeches
> for their own use and to stop anyone who gets in their way.
>
> Well.. in my own defence... it _could_ work :)
>
> If its just a two thread storyline Id go with the shadow team and the
> renraku team.. reguardless of what they are after. Military is too
> strictured.
>
> GreyWolf

Three threads would work, but they'd make the project even more ambitious.
The more I think about it, the more I realize that my idea should be an
independent story. I even know how I can tie in the other threads: in the
book, all people who are being experimented on are "leeched" to the
experiment tables. It would be more humane to get the serum and use it on the
person the shadow team is after. So the shadow team sort-of hooks up with the
Resistance to get the serum. The shadow team gets the serum and goes bye-bye,
while the Resistance starts to get crushed. Oh, and could I have Deus
laughing over speakers in the walls while the Resistance gets blown away?

--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+
M-
Message no. 32
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:42:08 -0400
Rand Ratinac wrote:

> > I would offer this suggestion: BOTH teams are after Cliber. The
> renraku team for obvious reasons. The Shadowrunners are hired by a
> competeing megacorp to also extract Cliber. I mean, what corp WOULDN'T
> want Dr. Cliber?
>

Both could be hired to find Dr. Cliber, but the Shadow team could discover
that a relative or girlfriend or contact or whatever is trapped inside, so
they decide to go after Cliber AND the person. That way they are a little
more moral . . .

> > This would make things more interesting as both teams race
> against each other to find her. And one tema doesn't have to actually
> find her. The "losing team" could end up doing a Custer's Last Stand
> kind of thing against the drones and other nasties.
> >
> > Tay-Dor
>
> Hmmm...hmmm...
>
> Interesting suggestion, but again this is one of those things that I
> think would work better as a novel rather than a short story anthology,
> because the developing of this kind of plot would be rather large
> (IMO).
>
> The only other problem is that there's no element of 'niceness' in
> this. Everyone's totally in it for the money, which, while that's the
> essence of Shadowrun, does make it more difficult to sympathise with
> the heroes. Most shadowrunners in the novels are 'do-gooders' - for
> shadowrunners :) - and the ones where they aren't (Shadowboxer springs
> to mind) usually don't go over so well.
>
> Apart from that, yeah, it's an interesting idea.
> ==> Doc'
> (aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)
>
> .sig Sauer
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com



--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

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M-
Message no. 33
From: Strago strago@***.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:49:32 -0400
Scott Wheelock wrote:

> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to CEvans9159@***.com."
> <SNIPPY>
>
> Cliber is a major character, I gather

Dr. Vanessa Cliber is the mad scientist who created Deus. She'd know how to turn
him off. Of course, she's a member of the Resistance, now.

> (I've got to get that
> book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
> both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
> and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
> story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
> 'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
> The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams are
> going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
> each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
> a good plot device if we went with it.
>
> -Murder of One



--
--Strago

The gene pool in the 21st century needs a deep cleaning. I am the chlorine.

SRGC v0.2 !SR1 SR2++ !SR3 h b++ B- UB- IE+ RN++ sa++ ma++ ad+ m+ (o++ d+) gm+ M-
Message no. 34
From: Ahuizotl cuellare@***.telmex.net.mx
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 11:36:02 -0500
Rand Ratinac escribió:
>
> Well, it looks like most people are happy with the 'two core threads'
> concept for the project. (If you aren't then you'd better say so soon,
> or we'll be moving on - speak now or forever hold your peace. :) )
>
> So, the next stage (well, sub-stage, actually), is to decide on what
> exactly the two threads are to consist of.
>
> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
...
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>
> Strago's suggestion (currently) concurs on the objective of the
....
> better. :)
>
> So, people, could we have suggestions for OTHER options for the two
> core threads, or votes on which of the above options you like best?

No suggestion about the core thread, my vote is with the first option


Ahuizotl
Message no. 35
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 16:16:50 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Rand Ratinac <docwagon101@*****.com>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 2:44 AM
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.


> As of now, we have two suggestions. Mine is to have two teams, a
> Renraku black-ops team and a shadow team. The Renraku team is going
> after Vanessa Cliber and anyone else they can find who can help make
> Deus go away. The shadow team is going in to rescue someone of great
> import to a member of the team, or possibly to the entire team.
>

Hi,
My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral decision,
while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target is a
relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e. parent if
relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave the
body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby not
letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative, thereby
greatly increasing their chances of escape?

Just a thought,
Mockingbird
Message no. 36
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 18:41:33 -0700 (PDT)
> Cliber is a major character, I gather (I've got to get that
book...I'm working on it, really. Someone want to send it to me?). If
both teams are after Cliber, and one fails, thatn the other succeeds,
and the situation in the Arc is changed in a major way (like writing a
story where you kill Kyle Haeffner. No! Bad author, bad! No! :)
'Course, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

No, Scott's right about this. This is something I forgot to mention
yesterday. If we go with the "both teams after Cliber" idea, then they
BOTH are going to fail. Getting Cliber out is a bit beyond our scope if
we want to be published. What THAT means is that neither team will
ever, in fact, be able to come into contact with Cliber. If you've read
RA:S, you'll know that Cliber is a "me, me, me, mine, mine, mine" kind
of person. She's too selfish to pass up the chance to get out of the
arc, so if she DID link up with either team, she'd leave - and like I
said, that's something we can't do.


> The other point is (and this could be a good thing), if the teams
are going after the same person, they will eventually have to deal with
each other. The reader knows this right from the start. That could be
a good plot device if we went with it.
> -Murder of One

Yes, that certainly could be interesting. Like I said though, if both
teams are after Cliber, then both of them are going to fail in their
missions. Do we want to do this? If so, what are we going to do so the
book isn't entirely futile and depressing? I suggested we could link in
part of my idea (having the shadow team find a friend/relative/lover
etc. and getting them out). Any other ideas?
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

.sig Sauer
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Message no. 37
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
> Three threads would work, but they'd make the project even more
ambitious. The more I think about it, the more I realize that my idea
should be an independent story. I even know how I can tie in the other
threads: in the book, all people who are being experimented on are
"leeched" to the experiment tables.

Correct.

> It would be more humane to get the serum and use it on the person the
shadow team is after.

Also correct - although my intention was that the shadow team wouldn't
KNOW of the condition of the person they're after, just that they're in
the arc. I don't think that, from the outside, they'd be able to find
out exactly what situation their target is in.

> So the shadow team sort-of hooks up with the Resistance to get the
serum. The shadow team gets the serum and goes bye-bye, while the
Resistance starts to get crushed. Oh, and could I have Deus laughing
over speakers in the walls while the Resistance gets blown away?
> --Strago

Errr...a) I can't see Deus laughing - it's methodical and determined,
not sadistic, and b) the shadowrunners are supposed to be the HEROES.
They're the ones the readers are supposed to identify with and they're
the ones who have a chance of succeeding in their mission. Screwing the
Resistance is a no-no (IMO).

My suggestion is still that the remaining Renraku personnel hook up
with the Resistance and they agree to aid the Resistance in getting the
serum in return for the Resistance helping them find Cliber.

BUT - if you really want the shadow team doing it, try this for size.
At some point in time they find out that their target is being
experimented on and that they're 'leeched' down. They hook up with the
Resistance, who also wants the leech serum and make a deal. They help
each other, they get enough to free their target and the Resistance
gets the rest. Running battle starts - at some point in time, the
Resistance members and the shadow team split up. Shadow team gets away,
Resistance members (mostly) escape - but THEIR guy carrying the formula
gets blasted into crispy bits - along with the serum. So only the
runners have the serum and they haven't CONSCIOUSLY screwed over the
Resistance. They use the serum to free their target and get out - and
the serum is now, once again, only in the hands of Deus.

Now, I think it's a bit weaker than the other way around (personally,
if I had to do it, I'd stuff taking the risks to get the serum, knock
the target out with drugs or magic, rip them off the table, then
magically heal them - quicker and a lot safer for those involved,
except maybe the target), but that's one way we could do it.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 38
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 1999 19:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
> > Cliber is a major character, I gather
>
> Dr. Vanessa Cliber is the mad scientist who created Deus. She'd know
how to turn him off. Of course, she's a member of the Resistance, now.
> Strago

Yes and no. She's ONE of the creators (along with Sherman Huang and
another guy - plus their teams of programmers, I'm sure) of the AEP
(Arcology Expert Program). They also hacked up the AI Morgan (from the
"Secrets of Power" trilogy) and used a lot of her code in the AEP. And
Deus spawned from the AEP.

Cliber DOESN'T know how to turn Deus off - otherwise I'm sure she would
have done it. It's the same as what happened with Morgan. Somehow an AI
managed to...come into being. The programmers don't know how or why, so
they certainly don't know how to destroy it or even shut it down.
They're probably the only ones who have a chance of figuring out how,
though.

Yes, she's a member of the Resistance. I'm sure she'd bug out if she
got the chance, though. That's the kind of person she is, according to RA:S.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 39
From: Scott Wheelock iscottw@*****.nb.ca
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 00:07:36 -0300
"And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
] Hi,
] My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral decision,
] while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target is a
] relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e. parent if
] relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave the
] body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby not
] letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative, thereby
] greatly increasing their chances of escape?

Sounds like a neat idea! Remember it for when we start hashing out
what happens in each of the core runs (at this point, we still haven't
even decided exactly what the missions are).

-Murder of One
Message no. 40
From: Demonnic Bloodbather demonnic@*********.net
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Thu, 03 Jun 1999 22:28:33 +1200
Well, just finished the gruelling process of changing ISPs... and I'm
finding this one to be more amiable towards massive amounts of data
being transferred across their connections. Story line thoughts:

Team 1: Renraku Black Ops - Slips inside the SPIRE without a single
hitch... smooth as a baby's rounded, scented, powdered bum. 30 feet
inside the SPIRE, a good 75+% get toasted in a drone/blue attack while
some of the less experienced black ops are boasting to themselves. (I've
always liked that bit of nastiness to characters... I'm a sadist, and my
characters are my playthings, muhahahaha) They hook up with the
resistance because they desperately need help finding Cliber, whom
they've come to extract. Also because their entrance was sealed behind
them.

Team 2: Shadow team - This team knows itself. They work together like a
well oiled machine... the only problem is, there's a son-sized monkey
wrench in the de facto leader's cog. Seems the kid was staying with his
mother, who, you guessed it, lived in the SPIRE. So they go in to get
him out. They have some trouble getting in, but due to their ingenuity
and the fact that they're used to trusting their instincts for survival,
they take minor damage, no fatalities. <insert other interesting stuff
as they search for this kid> ... They find the kid, only to find out
he's been tested by Deus, and is now an otaku, but not yet banded.
<insert lots of father abandonment issues here, plus a sprinkling of
dilemma about having to kill your own kid it if comes down to it.>

Just some ideas for the central plot lines.

Oh yeah, this does mean I'm all for the 2 main plot lines running
through the stories. If the leech serum thing is used, it could perhaps
be worked in as a trade to the Resistance for information on where
Cliber is.

--
Demonnic
'Non Illegitimi Carborundum Est'
Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Message no. 41
From: Rand Ratinac docwagon101@*****.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 1999 23:15:47 -0700 (PDT)
> Just some ideas for the central plot lines.
>
> Oh yeah, this does mean I'm all for the 2 main plot lines running
through the stories. If the leech serum thing is used, it could perhaps
be worked in as a trade to the Resistance for information on where
Cliber is.
> Demonnic

Don't lose this - bring it up again if we decide to go with that
option.

Will talk more later. Rushed. Gotta be quick. Sorry.
==Doc'
(aka Mr. Freaky Big, Super-Dynamic Troll of Tomorrow)

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Message no. 42
From: Mockingbird mockingbird@*********.com
Subject: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 12:54:25 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Wheelock <iscottw@*****.nb.ca>
To: <srfanfic@*********.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 1999 10:07 PM
Subject: Re: [RA:S Project] Continued organisation.


> "And now, a Channel 6 editorial reply to Mockingbird."
> ] Hi,
> ] My vote for is for this one. Also, if we want a major moral
decision,
> ] while staying away from euthanasia, how about this, the runner's target
is a
> ] relative (thinking child) of one of the runners. The runner (i.e.
parent if
> ] relative is child) gets killed and the relative can't deal, won't leave
the
> ] body. Now do the runners drag a crying blubbering person out, thereby
not
> ] letting their comrade die in vain, or do they leave the relative,
thereby
> ] greatly increasing their chances of escape?
>
> Sounds like a neat idea! Remember it for when we start hashing out
> what happens in each of the core runs (at this point, we still haven't
> even decided exactly what the missions are).
>
> -Murder of One
>

Hi,
Since we seem to now be at the part where the core runs are being
decided, I thought I'd repost this. Use it, ignore it, I don't care.

Mockingbird

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