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Message no. 1
From: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM>
Subject: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 00:56:42 -0500
Whew! Beleive it or not, I just finished my first full,
beginning-to-completion Shadowrun adventure. Things were stolen, people
were killed, and we got mucho nuyen (and Karma) at the end of it all.
Near the conclusion of this adventure, our main Sammie (more of a
Gunner/Medic with an unmistakable reek of marijuana) had been imbued with
Improved Invisibility by the more powerful of our two mages.
There was some confusion which I won't explain in detail here
(basically, the GM didn't realize the invisibility was still going, and
we forgot as well, so many things probably should've happened
differently.) But an interesting question came up.
See, this character, Dr. Boris, was seriously fragged by the
Ares(?) laser weapon in FOF. But he was improvedly invisible.
So, if Improved Invisibility (which works against electronic
scanners, cameras, etcetera) actually _bends_ the light, would the laser
have affected him? If not, what does it do?
I hate to open this specific Pandora's Box, but it could well be
an interesting topic for the first week or so. *grin* And, please,
remember -- Shadowrun's Improved Invisibility spell has
>>>>NOTHING<<<< to
do with the equivalent spell in AD&D!

-------------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk@****.com> =========-------------
| "Information's pretty thin stuff unless mixed with experience." |
| -Clarence Day |
--------========== http://www.cais.com/jdfalk/home.html ==========--------
Message no. 2
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 10:33:34 -0500
>>>>> "J" == J D Falk <jdfalk@****.CAIS.COM> writes:

J> See, this character, Dr. Boris, was seriously fragged by the
J> Ares(?) laser weapon in FOF. But he was improvedly invisible.
J> So, if Improved Invisibility (which works against electronic
J> scanners, cameras, etcetera) actually _bends_ the light, would the laser
J> have affected him? If not, what does it do?

It hurts. This is that weird thing about light-bending invisibility. If
light bends around you, then how can you see if no light ever hits you?
So you just chalk it up to cinematics and get fragged by the laser.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 3
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 18:45:10 EST
Mr. Falk writes:

See, this character, Dr. Boris, was seriously fragged by the
> Ares(?) laser weapon in FOF. But he was improvedly invisible.
> So, if Improved Invisibility (which works against electronic
> scanners, cameras, etcetera) actually _bends_ the light, would the
laser
> have affected him? If not, what does it do?

I do not know that much about lasers, but what I do know is this:
Lasers are coherent light. They have no wave form(maybe a little).
They cannot be seen normally because of the fact that they have no
wave form, therefore cannot scatter light. Since the spell bends light,
it would bend the waves, because that would be the easiest to bend.
And lasers are coherent, and cannot be bent. So the laser would hit.

Easier explaination. Water. It bends thelight rays. I think that it is
called refraction. But the water cannot bend laser light. Not much of
an explaination, but it helps. Could some of you science-wizes help
here?


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 4
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 19:05:12 -0500
>>>>> "Shadowdancer" == Shadowdancer
<BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU> writes:

Shadowdancer> I do not know that much about lasers, but what I do know is
Shadowdancer> this: Lasers are coherent light. They have no wave form
Shadowdancer> (maybe a little).

No, this is wrong. Coherent light is light of exactly one single frequency;
that's what the term means. It's still light, and still has the wave and
particulate natures thereof. The reason lasers have cutting properties
isn't the coherence, it's the ``concentration'' of energy which is possible
only with a coherent beam. If you couldn't refract a coherent beam, you
couldn't create a laser in the first place.

Shadowdancer> They cannot be seen normally because of the fact that they
Shadowdancer> have no wave form, therefore cannot scatter light.

Wrong, again; that's focusing. You cannot see a laser because there's no
light being reflected or emitted to your eyes. If there were, then you'd
see it for all of a fraction of a second, and then you'd go blind as your
retinae are damaged or destroyed.

Shadowdancer> Since the spell bends light, it would bend the waves, because
Shadowdancer> that would be the easiest to bend. And lasers are coherent,
Shadowdancer> and cannot be bent. So the laser would hit.

See my previous comments.

The laser hits for the same reason you can still see while under the
effects of the spell: cinematics.

Shadowdancer> Easier explaination. Water. It bends thelight rays. I
Shadowdancer> think that it is called refraction. But the water cannot
Shadowdancer> bend laser light. Not much of an explaination, but it helps.
Shadowdancer> Could some of you science-wizes help here?

Yes. Water /can/ refract lasers, just not well, and not noticably, because
of the coherence. The water tends to boil due to the amount of energy being
imparted. Any light can be refracted, it's one of those unequivocable
physical laws of nature.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Do not use Happy Fun Ball on concrete.
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox |
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 5
From: Shadowdancer <BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 19:20:12 EST
SS Rat, I told you I do not know much about lasers. All I Do know I
learned from my science teacher, and he was dumber than a
doorknob. In the experiments we did with lasers and water, the laser
did not refract. We also did not have any high tech recording
equipment, so even if it did refract a little, we would not have known
it. The point I was trying to make is that the spell could cause a
refraction in the air around the caster or reciever. Kinda like have a
wall of water, but way better. Regular light waves are refracted by
thIs "airy water" distortion, reflecting everything else in the
environment but the caster/reciever. Since the laser does not refract
as much( tiny differances) it would hit, simply because the deviance
is not enough at that close of range to significantly change the path of
the laser.

P.S. I learned about lasers in the 7th grade. And that was six years
ago. So sorry if I cannot remember drek.

P.P.S. Cinamatics only go so far.


Many people fear Death, saying it is the bitter end.
I say Death is just lonely, crying out for a friend.

-Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>
Message no. 6
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: 150 real diamonds
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 1994 19:27:28 -0500
>>>>> "Rat" == Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox> writes:
>>>>> "Shadowdancer" == Shadowdancer
<BRIDDLE@*****.VINU.EDU> writes:

Shadowdancer> They cannot be seen normally because of the fact that they
Shadowdancer> have no wave form, therefore cannot scatter light.

Rat> Wrong, again; that's focusing.
^^^^^^^^
To correct myself, that's reflection or difraction, not focusing.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> | Happy Fun Ball may stick to certain types
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox | of skin.
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! |
Message no. 7
From: Adam Getchell <acgetche@****.UCDAVIS.EDU>
Subject: Re: 150 real diamonds
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 09:28:01 -0800
On Tue, 13 Dec 1994, Shadowdancer wrote:

> I do not know that much about lasers, but what I do know is this:
> Lasers are coherent light. They have no wave form(maybe a little).
> They cannot be seen normally because of the fact that they have no
> wave form, therefore cannot scatter light. Since the spell bends light,
> it would bend the waves, because that would be the easiest to bend.
> And lasers are coherent, and cannot be bent. So the laser would hit.

Well, actually "light" is the ~300-750 nanometer _wavelength_
section of the electromagnetic spectrum. As a matter of fact,
*everything* has a wavelength, as De Broglie demonstrated in the 1920's.
The wavelength of an object is inversely proportional to it's energy (and
proportional to Planck's constant), so that very large objects have
wavelengths that are very small. But anyways, everything has a
wavelength and frequency. Often referred to as the "wave-particle"
duality of matter (and by Einstein's extension, energy).
Lasers don't scatter much for the simple reason that the process
that produces them tends to make a tightly focussed beam, with low
divergence. The same effect occurs with a good halogen lamp (especially
those used for night-fighting). Yes, lasers are monochromatic and
coherent, meaning they have the same frequency and same phase, but in
order to get this you generally have to make a number of passes through
the lasing media and the avalanche of photons that is the lasing effect
is pretty tightly focussed by the time the beam emerges (the photons off
the main axis tend to get preferentially re-absorbed by the media).
I could go into more detail but only by e-mail request.

> -Shadowdancer- <briddle@*****.vinu.edu>

+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|Adam Getchell|acgetche@****.engr.ucdavis.edu | ez000270@*******.ucdavis.edu |
| acgetchell |"Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent"|
+-------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
Message no. 8
From: "Thomas W. Craig" <Craigtw1@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 150 real diamonds
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 1994 12:38:35 -0500
Physics....NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! I hate physics. The highest grade I got in
college level physics was a "D-" Oh, no...I'm Peppermint Pattie in male
clothing...ack!
Tom

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