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Message no. 1
From: Mike Elkins <MikeE@*********.COM>
Subject: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:02:27 -0500
I've ignoring most of these threads, I just don't have the time, but I just
wanted to make one small comment.

1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?
Absolutely.

Double-Domed Mike
Message no. 2
From: Peter David Boddy <pdboddy@****.CARLETON.CA>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:22:02 EST
Mike Elkins writes:
> I've ignoring most of these threads, I just don't have the time, but I just
> wanted to make one small comment.
>
> 1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
> been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
> their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?
> Absolutely.

Yeah, 1% is a lot. Figuring, say, 5 billion people (most likely more in
2050+, even with large portions of the population dying from various
plagues and diseases), you would have 50 million mages. That's more mages
than the current population of Canada. Seattle has been pegged at 2
million people (rough guess from a quick flip through the Seattle
Sourcebook), so you would have 20,000 mages running round the city.
Probably a great deal less actually know they are magically capable.

Pete

Pete aka Spitfire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Geek Quote of the Week: "Off the keyboard, thru the router,
over the bridge, nothing but net!"

Peter David Boddy
Carleton University
Email address: pdboddy@****.carleton.ca
Email address: pdboddy@******.carleton.ca
Email address: bx955@*******.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 3
From: Max Rible <slothman@*********.ORG>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:38:04 -0800
At 15:02 11/19/97 -0500, Mike Elkins wrote:
>I've ignoring most of these threads, I just don't have the time, but I just
>wanted to make one small comment.

>1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
>been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
>their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?
>Absolutely.

With full mages being .1% of the population, they're about half as common
as doctors. I have a web page that addresses some of these issues at
<http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/working_world.html>;. (Quick summary:
being any sort of spellcasting Adept is a ticket to a High lifestyle that's
relatively risk-free, as long as you're willing to take up one of the
appropriate professions. Combat mages must get paid a hell of a lot.)

--
%% Max Rible %% slothman@*****.com %% http://www.amurgsval.org/~slothman/ %%
%% "Ham is good... Glowing *tattooed* ham is *bad*!" - the Tick %%
Message no. 4
From: Jeremiah Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 16:36:13 -0500
IMPERIAL ORDER of the KNIGHTS of the ILLUMINATI

On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, Peter David Boddy wrote:

> Mike Elkins writes:
> > I've ignoring most of these threads, I just don't have the time, but I just
> > wanted to make one small comment.
> >
> > 1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
> > been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
> > their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?
> > Absolutely.
>
> Yeah, 1% is a lot. Figuring, say, 5 billion people (most likely more in
> 2050+, even with large portions of the population dying from various
> plagues and diseases), you would have 50 million mages. That's more mages
> than the current population of Canada. Seattle has been pegged at 2
> million people (rough guess from a quick flip through the Seattle
> Sourcebook), so you would have 20,000 mages running round the city.
> Probably a great deal less actually know they are magically capable.
Actually the population of Seattle is 3,000,000+ and the 1% figure
represents an overall world population. I would think in urban areas,
especially cosmopolitan ones like Seattle, there would be a much higher
concentration of magically active people. The magically active would tend
to congregate in university towns like Boston, or places where work and
magical support services (talismongers, etc..) are available.
Also, the 1% statistic comes from 2053, and it has most likely risen by
2058-2059, mostly among the children who have just awakened. This presents
new opportunities for both the increased social acceptance of mages and
for government control, as the government can more easily monitor and
indoctrinate magically active children as they progress through society.

Another suggestion for SR3- better statistics on the magically active,
perhaps city stats should include a % of magically active to complement
the criminal, educational and economic statistics already given.
Message no. 5
From: Adam J <fro@***.AB.CA>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 15:37:29 -0700
At 15:02 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote:

>1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
>been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
>their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?

According to Awakenings, 1 in 100 people is magically active, and 1 in 10
of those is a full mage.. The others are, well, others :)

-Adam

-
http://shadowrun.home.ml.org \ TSS Productions \ The Shadowrun Supplemental
ShadowRN Assistant Fearless Leader \ AdamJ@******** \ fro@***.ab.ca
The Shadowrun Archive Co-Maintainer: http://www.interware.it/shadowrun
Message no. 6
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:25:08 +0000
In article <Pine.SOL.3.95.971119162908.25031A-100000@*****>, Jeremiah
Stevens <jeremiah@********.EDU> writes
>Actually the population of Seattle is 3,000,000+ and the 1% figure
>represents an overall world population. I would think in urban areas,
>especially cosmopolitan ones like Seattle, there would be a much higher
>concentration of magically active people. The magically active would tend
>to congregate in university towns like Boston, or places where work and
>magical support services (talismongers, etc..) are available.

Yeah: but Seattle's a big town. So there are more magicians, drawn by
the university: how does this translate to someone in Auburn, miles
away, being friendly with a magician? You have a cluster of magicians,
who are university students on similar courses and who tend to socialise
within their own group and area.

>Also, the 1% statistic comes from 2053, and it has most likely risen by
>2058-2059, mostly among the children who have just awakened.

Source?

>This presents
>new opportunities for both the increased social acceptance of mages and
>for government control, as the government can more easily monitor and
>indoctrinate magically active children as they progress through society.
>
>Another suggestion for SR3- better statistics on the magically active,
>perhaps city stats should include a % of magically active to complement
>the criminal, educational and economic statistics already given.

Agreed :)

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 7
From: "Paul J. Adam" <shadowrn@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:22:33 +0000
In article <s472fff8.058@********.dragonsys.com>, Mike Elkins
<MikeE@*********.COM> writes
>I've ignoring most of these threads, I just don't have the time, but I just
>wanted to make one small comment.
>
>1% is actually a lot. Think of it this way, how many mages would have
>been in your high school? An average person has met several mages in
>their life. Seen them do magic? Maybe, maybe not. Met them?
>Absolutely.

Yeah, well... one in ten of that 1% are full-blown mages. And only so
many of them will be aware of their powers.

In some fields, you'll have people who know half-a-dozen magicians, just
as I know that many PhDs (and am aware that they _are_ PhDs). But then
I'm an engineer working on a major defence contract.

In others, there's a large tranche of the population who have never
knowingly met either a PhD or a magician. Where does a garage mechanic
knowingly meet a magician, for instance? A shop cashier? A machine tool
operator? A taxi driver? A taxi driver doesn't know the profession of
most of his or her fares, let alone their qualifications and abilities.

It's not impossible, but it's unlikely. You might easily know several
magicians socially without being aware of their abilities, to further
complicate the situation.

--
There are four kinds of homicide: felonious, excusable, justifiable and
praiseworthy...

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 8
From: "Logan Graves <Fenris>" <logan1@*****.INTERCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:05:33 -0500
In our last episode, Peter David Boddy wrote:
> Yeah, 1% is a lot. Figuring, say, 5 billion people (most likely more in
> 2050+, even with large portions of the population dying from various
> plagues and diseases), you would have 50 million mages. That's more mages
> than the current population of Canada. Seattle has been pegged at 2
> million people (rough guess from a quick flip through the Seattle
> Sourcebook), so you would have 20,000 mages running round the city.
> Probably a great deal less actually know they are magically capable.

Nope, nope, nope!
After numerous waves of the VITAS plague & Eurowars, Earth's population
has notably gone *down*:

2010 VITAS breaks out, killing 25% of the world's pop.
2021 Goblinization Day changes 10% of world's pop into orks & trolls
2022 10% of the remaining pop killed by another VITAS wave
2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.
2036-2051 Alamos20K linked to murders of 1000's of metahumans &
supporters

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades...

--Fenris
_______________________________________________logan1@*****.intercom.net
(>) "Pull Trigger. Repeat as Necessary."
(>) --Instruction Manual supplied Ares Arms(tm)
Message no. 9
From: Avenger <Avenger@*******.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 03:47:03 +0000
Just a short one this time <grin>

Populations of people.

Now, we all know, the population of the world froom 2011 to 2058 is
massively different from today and current growth trends, so we can't
use that as an example.

Now, allowing for 1% of the global population being magically active
(including adepts etc)

Population varies from one country to another. So, assuming that there
are a pile of mages running around in the world, say a couple million,
as was pointed out by somebody - the size of a city.

China, Africa, USSR (or whatever it is then)

China's population is _massive_ they lost a lot during the plagues and
whatnot. If the magic population is 2 million "globally", that does
not, under any circumstances whatsoever equate to 20,000 running around
Seattle. It does equate to average populations across the world. Which
logically dictates China would have the highest population of mages,
detracting from any presence in the UCAS, Europe or Australia.

Two million world-wide... Not that many is it. Even on guestimate
figures.

Today almost 60% of the worlds population lives in Asia.
Okay, lets play with the figures again. My head is not designed to cope
with math so I'll let someone else do it. But if that trend is
followed, I feel that even after VITAS, UGE, VITAS, etc, the magic
population of Asia, (and China alone) will detract massively from that 2
million total.

Which does not equate to 20,000 mages in Seattle. Not by global
percentages. 20,000 only works from Seattle's population total, not the
global population, which is where it should be worked from.

There are 5.7 billion people in the world today, Allow for population
growth over the next ten years - forecast to be 8.3 billion

35% die from VITAS


35% of the population of the world die. Ignoring UGE because metahumans
can also use magic. Of which only

1% of this are magically aware
and 0.1% are full mages.

Factor in population percentages on a global scale (60% Asia - 40% the
rest). And I think the result may be interesting. And I'm positive it
won't equate to 20,000 mages in Seattle, or any other city.


--
Dark Avenger -:- http://www.shalako.demon.co.uk -
Unofficial Shadowtk Newbies Guide, Edgerunners Datastore &
Beginnings of the Underseas Sourcebook.
http://freespace.virgin.net/pete.sims - Alternative UK Sourcebook (U/C)
Message no. 10
From: David West <lightfinger@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:55:37 -0600
Logan Graves wrote:

> Nope, nope, nope!
> After numerous waves of the VITAS plague & Eurowars, Earth's population
> has notably gone *down*:

>
> 2010 VITAS breaks out, killing 25% of the world's pop.
> 2021 Goblinization Day changes 10% of world's pop into orks & trolls
> 2022 10% of the remaining pop killed by another VITAS wave
> 2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
> countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.
> 2036-2051 Alamos20K linked to murders of 1000's of metahumans &
> supporters

I believe a sourcebook (can't recall which, though) pointed out VITAS
devastated Africa and Asia, primarily. Goblinization did not reduce
world population levels, just changed their race. The EuroWars did cut
down population, but until the Nightwraiths flew, I do not recall many
descriptions of nuclear warfare or chemical/biological agents hitting
the populace. Alamos20K's murders are insignificant compared to 5
billion people...

Let us add to this the fact that if the NAN were populated as described
in sourcebooks, Native Americans would have had a population explosion
of unheardof proportions (and they forgot a number of major tribes with
their population breakdowns). After major events, birth rates increase
for a few years...2011 - Magic/Elves/Dwarves, 2029 - Matrix, 2038 -
EuroWar post-baby boom, etc. 5 Billion is not unreasonable considering
these facts, but is probably a bit high I admit...

--David Lightfinger
Message no. 11
From: losthalo <losthalo@********.COM>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 23:24:53 -0500
At 03:47 AM 11/20/97 +0000, you wrote:

>Which does not equate to 20,000 mages in Seattle. Not by global
>percentages. 20,000 only works from Seattle's population total, not the
>global population, which is where it should be worked from.

>Factor in population percentages on a global scale (60% Asia - 40% the
>rest). And I think the result may be interesting. And I'm positive it
>won't equate to 20,000 mages in Seattle, or any other city.

Okay, here goes... I'm not sure where you're getting confused here, so
I'll try to keep this simple and explain the assumptions I'm making.

1) assume that the distribution of magicians (since that's I think what we
mean when we're talking about mages in this thread,and I'm trying to be
very clear) percentage-wise, is even (nothing in SR leads us to believe
otherwise). That is, in the UCAS, 1% is magically active, 0.1% is
full-magician material.

2) assume that the population of Seattle is typical (it is neither a magnet
for magicians for some reason, nor does it repel magicians from settling
there)

Given these two assumptions, it would be reasonable to assume that Seattle
has roughly 30,000 magicians of some sort (including adepts), and of those
roughly 300 would be full magicians, based on a population of 3,000,000.

Why you think China might have a higher percentage due to higher
population, I don't know. They might have a higher number, but not a
higher percentage.

Is it clear now, or did *I* perhaps miss what you were trying to say in
this post?

losthalo, trying to clear up muddy waters
Message no. 12
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 22:50:41 -0600
> 1% of this are magically aware
> and 0.1% are full mages.

First Question: Where does everyone get this .1% are full mages?
Pleas give a page number.

> Factor in population percentages on a global scale (60% Asia - 40% the
> rest). And I think the result may be interesting. And I'm positive it
> won't equate to 20,000 mages in Seattle, or any other city.

Next Question: Wouldn't Asia be hardest hit by the VITAS? With
little or no health care, bad sanitation, etc. They would be the hardest
hit by any World Wide plague. I would believe that of that 35% of the
world population that died from VITAS 25% was in Asia alone.

+++ Begin Friendly Rant:
This topic is getting stale, all I'm hearing is "Mages are too
powerful" "No they are not."... What you should focus on is how are you
playing Mages and letting them be played. In the game world I play in Lone
Star is a crappy law enforcement at best. The only real oppisition the
runners have come from on sight security, which varies depending on the
sensitivity of the project. Corps arn't slouches when it comes to Magical
Defences and Offencives. You want to run around with Locked spells? Well
then be ready to have them grounded through. You want quickenings and
anchorings? Well then watch out for wards, spirits, dispellings? You want
to cast High Force spells? Well then be aware that you'll light up like a
christmas tree, and be the first one in everyones targeting scopes.

On the subject of spell and foci, Spells arn't really easy to get
or learn. First if you want top design a spell you need a expensive Socery
and Magical Theory librarys, spend weeks or months, Pay Karma, etc. To get
a gun you; call your fixer, wait an hour, pay fixer, etc. Cyberware is a
little harder to get, you need to spend time recovering, your out in about
a month tops. Spells are harder to restrict because there is no way to
PROVE in a court of law that someone knows a spell. Foci, I believe, have
leagality ratings in LS, but I could be wrong. But even then your in the
US just owning a illeagal firearm is most likely just gonna get you a slap
on the wrist and it will eighter get confiscated or you will be told to
get a permit, painless. And how many cops are going to know that my dimond
serpent wring is a fireball focus?

On the subject of Mages being feared and hated:

If you read the SR books people do treat mages differently, but
they don't FEAR them outright. Compareing them to other minorities won't
work becaus unlike the minorities of today, mages have the Media ON THIER
SIDE. Corps like mages and wan't them to come work for them. THe
government wants mages to work for them, the mafia wan't mages to work for
them. Mages are powerful allies, everyone wants them to be thier
friends.Now I can see a reason that some backwater hicks might not like
mages, or people might harbor a distrust for the lazy mage that sleeps on
the job. But out right Hate them? I can't see that.


+++End Rant


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5648
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 13
From: Mark Imbriaco <mark@**********.COM>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 00:07:08 -0800
On 11/19/97, at 10:50 PM, Czar Eggbert wrote:

>> 1% of this are magically aware
>> and 0.1% are full mages.
>
> First Question: Where does everyone get this .1% are full mages?
>Pleas give a page number.

Awakenings, pg. 9:

"Magicians are fairly rare. Statistics show that one person in a hundred
has
enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only
about
one in ten are fully capable magicians while the others are just adeptss,
...

So yes, all of the people who have been saying 1 in 100 are magically
active
did have canon to back them up. :-)

-Mark
Message no. 14
From: Czar Eggbert <czregbrt@*********.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 02:39:06 -0600
On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, Mark Imbriaco wrote:

> On 11/19/97, at 10:50 PM, Czar Eggbert wrote:
>
> >> 1% of this are magically aware
> >> and 0.1% are full mages.
> >
> > First Question: Where does everyone get this .1% are full mages?
> >Pleas give a page number.
>
> Awakenings, pg. 9:
>
> "Magicians are fairly rare. Statistics show that one person in a hundred
> has
> enough talent to make active use of magic. Of those individuals, only
> about
> one in ten are fully capable magicians while the others are just adeptss,
> ...
>
> So yes, all of the people who have been saying 1 in 100 are magically
> active
> did have canon to back them up. :-)
>
> -Mark
>
Thank you. I must have missed the part of only 1 out of 10
magicly active were full mages :)

-=>Czar


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Czar Eggbert
Ruler, Dark Side of the Moon.
homepage: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5648
mailto:czregbrt@*********.edu
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Reality!? Is that some new game?"
-MDF
"I'll need morphine, lots of it, and a pistol."
-The English Patient
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Message no. 15
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 07:14:57 -0700
Logan Graves wrote:
/
/ Nope, nope, nope!
/ After numerous waves of the VITAS plague & Eurowars, Earth's population
/ has notably gone *down*:

I disagree :)

Today the population is 5 billion. It's risen 1 billion in the last
10 years (I think :). An estimated population of 7 billion by 2010
is not unreasonable.

/ 2010 VITAS breaks out, killing 25% of the world's pop.

Dropping the population from 7 to 5 billion (I'm rounding off the
nearest billion to make this simple).

By 2021 the population is back up to 6 billion.

/ 2021 Goblinization Day changes 10% of world's pop into orks & trolls

How does this affect the population? Even if people kill 10% of the
orks and trolls out of fear, that's only 60,000,000.

By 2022 the population is 7 billion.

/ 2022 10% of the remaining pop killed by another VITAS wave

Dropping from 7 to 6 billion.

By 2030 it's back up to 7 billion.

/ 2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
/ countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.

Even though it's confined to a small area I'll grant you 1 billion
deaths.

/ 2036-2051 Alamos20K linked to murders of 1000's of metahumans &
/ supporters

1000's is not millions or even billions. This is inconsequential.

From 2030 to 205x the population jumps at least 2 billion, probably 3
billion, bringing the grand total to 8-9 billion people.

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 16
From: "Jackson, Hank" <Hank.Jackson@*********.COM>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 10:30:27 -0500
Hi All,

I think I'm coming in late on this topic, but I thought that Awakenings
gave some expanded statistics on this subject. I don't have the book
with me at work, but I'll look up a reference tonight if y'all really
want it. Anyway, I seem to recall that 1% are capable of magic. 0.5%
are unaware of it or block it out. 0.1% are full mage capable and know
it, leaving 0.4% as adepts. I've increased the number of magic capable
in my game world to 1.5%, but the number of full magicians is still
0.1%. This just increases the number of adepts in my world.

Galen
Message no. 17
From: David Thompson <david.s.thompson@****.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:09:02 -0500
At 07:14 AM 11/20/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Logan Graves wrote:
>/
>/ Nope, nope, nope!
>/ After numerous waves of the VITAS plague & Eurowars, Earth's population
>/ has notably gone *down*:
>
>I disagree :)
>
>Today the population is 5 billion. It's risen 1 billion in the last
>10 years (I think :). An estimated population of 7 billion by 2010
>is not unreasonable.
>
>/ 2010 VITAS breaks out, killing 25% of the world's pop.
>
>Dropping the population from 7 to 5 billion (I'm rounding off the
>nearest billion to make this simple).
>
>By 2021 the population is back up to 6 billion.
>
>/ 2021 Goblinization Day changes 10% of world's pop into orks & trolls
>
>How does this affect the population? Even if people kill 10% of the
>orks and trolls out of fear, that's only 60,000,000.
>
>By 2022 the population is 7 billion.
>
>/ 2022 10% of the remaining pop killed by another VITAS wave
>
>Dropping from 7 to 6 billion.
>
>By 2030 it's back up to 7 billion.
>
>/ 2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
>/ countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.
>
>Even though it's confined to a small area I'll grant you 1 billion
>deaths.
>
>/ 2036-2051 Alamos20K linked to murders of 1000's of metahumans &
>/ supporters
>
>1000's is not millions or even billions. This is inconsequential.
>
>>From 2030 to 205x the population jumps at least 2 billion, probably 3
>billion, bringing the grand total to 8-9 billion people.

If anything, this number is too low. Human population growth has been
fairly exponential, not linear, for the last 100+ years. That means that
it might take 10 years to go from 4 to 5 billion, but only 7 years from 5
to 6...

Of course, it doesn't really matter because the real point isn't the total
number of mages, but the relative number. Basically, they are 1%!

--DT
Message no. 18
From: Jonathan Hurley <jhurley1@************.EDU>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 22:53:08 -0500
David Buehrer[SMTP:dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG] wrote:
> Logan Graves wrote:
> /
> / Nope, nope, nope!
> / After numerous waves of the VITAS plague & Eurowars, Earth's population
> / has notably gone *down*:
>
> I disagree :)
>
> Today the population is 5 billion. It's risen 1 billion in the last
> 10 years (I think :). An estimated population of 7 billion by 2010
> is not unreasonable.

I believe that in one of the shadow comments in the TT book, world
population is discussed. A guy mentions it in his rant against the
back-to-nature freaks the Tir seems to have. It is kinda low, but somewhere
around 7 billion.

OTOH, I believe that every population estimate for the 'next' ten years has
been off since at least WWII. I know that Heinlein's population estimates
for the turn of the century (done for a 'future prediction' piece in
_Expanded Universe_) were quite far off. Furthermore, consider that most of
the current population boom is occurring in newly developed countries. In
the first world, population rates are barely keeping up with death rates -
IE, we barely have replacement. VITAS is going to hit hardest in the areas
where there is little medical support. Some of the World's most densely
populated areas, in other words. While the world death count is 25% of the
population, consider that some sub-groups are hit extremely hard, while
some sub-groups (the native Americans most prominently) are hardly hit at
all. And those sub-groups that are hit were the most prolific. What happens
when 50% of a region are dead?


--
Quicksilver rides again
--------------
Those who would give up a little freedom for security
deserve neither freedom nor security
-Benjamin Franklin
Yeah, I have Attention Deficit Dis - Hey, look at that butterfly!
Jonathan Hurley (mailto:jhurley1@************.edu)
Message no. 19
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 10:06:28 +0100
David Buehrer said on 7:14/20 Nov 97...

> / 2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
> / countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.
>
> Even though it's confined to a small area I'll grant you 1 billion
> deaths.

Europe may be densely populated, but killing a billion Europeans (even if
the total population on earth is 6-7 billion) would mean just about
everyone on the continent gets it. Look at WWII, which killed around 55
million people over 5 1/2 years of war in Europe, Africa, and Asia, and
that includes the victims of death camps and slave labor.

From SRII, it seems the EuroWars were started by the Russians to gain
resources, not to depopulate Europe. If you want resources, it's in your
own best interests to cause as little collateral damage as possible, which
also means fewer civilian deaths than, say, carpet-bombing major
industrial areas.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
The future. Available tomorrow.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

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Message no. 20
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:13:21 -0700
Gurth wrote:
/
/ David Buehrer said on 7:14/20 Nov 97...
/
/ > / 2030-2042 EUROWARS! Europe & Asia fight a twelve-year war, leaving many
/ > / countries in ruin or fragmented or worse.
/ >
/ > Even though it's confined to a small area I'll grant you 1 billion
/ > deaths.
/
/ Europe may be densely populated, but killing a billion Europeans (even if
/ the total population on earth is 6-7 billion) would mean just about
/ everyone on the continent gets it. Look at WWII, which killed around 55
/ million people over 5 1/2 years of war in Europe, Africa, and Asia, and
/ that includes the victims of death camps and slave labor.

I tossed out that number to show that even with an extreme number of
deaths the world population would still recover in short order. IMO,
the number of deaths was probably less then a million.

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm
Message no. 21
From: David Buehrer <dbuehrer@******.CARL.ORG>
Subject: Re: 1% are mages
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 1997 08:27:26 -0700
David Thompson wrote:
/
/ >From 2030 to 205x the population jumps at least 2 billion, probably 3
/ >billion, bringing the grand total to 8-9 billion people.
/
/ If anything, this number is too low. Human population growth has been
/ fairly exponential, not linear, for the last 100+ years. That means that
/ it might take 10 years to go from 4 to 5 billion, but only 7 years from 5
/ to 6...

I agree. I was keeping the numbers conservative. In my game the
world population is closer to 13 billion and is concentrated in
sprawls with populations of 20-100 million.

-David
--
"Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing
which ones to keep."
--
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/1068/homepage.htm

Further Reading

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