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Message no. 1
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sat Jun 1 10:25:01 2002
Hoi chummers,

Believe it or not I've had this book for years, and only just now realized it
was from the first edition of Shadowrun. No wonder the damage codes looked so
funny. Speaking of the damage codes, that's what I need help with. I was
transcribing this book into my computer along with the pertinent information
from a few other books to make sort of a Starting Player's Handbook for my
group to use when building characters and also as sort of an abbreviated
quick reference manual, but I need to know how those old SR1 damage codes
translate into SR2 or 3. I've got a kind of lead on it, based on what they
gave for a sword which was (Str)M2. I know in 2nd Ed just by looking it up
that that's (Str + 2)M, but what about damage codes like 6D2, or 5S2 for
instance? In other words I'm needin' to know how these compounds would affect
my players but the old rules are confusing because I never played that
system. Help? Please?!?
Message no. 2
From: shadowrn@*********.com (George S Waksman)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sat Jun 1 11:20:01 2002
KiltedJamesman@***.com wrote:

>Hoi chummers,
>
>Believe it or not I've had this book for years, and only just now realized it
>was from the first edition of Shadowrun. No wonder the damage codes looked so
>funny. Speaking of the damage codes, that's what I need help with. I was
>transcribing this book into my computer along with the pertinent information
>from a few other books to make sort of a Starting Player's Handbook for my
>group to use when building characters and also as sort of an abbreviated
>quick reference manual, but I need to know how those old SR1 damage codes
>translate into SR2 or 3. I've got a kind of lead on it, based on what they
>gave for a sword which was (Str)M2. I know in 2nd Ed just by looking it up
>that that's (Str + 2)M, but what about damage codes like 6D2, or 5S2 for
>instance? In other words I'm needin' to know how these compounds would affect
>my players but the old rules are confusing because I never played that
>system. Help? Please?!?
>

There is no direct way to convert them as the damage code system was
changed after first edition. In 1st edition the number following the
damage level was the number of successes needed to stage up or down a
damage level, which has been changed to always be 2 in SR2 and SR3. So
for a general idea you could change all (foo)(bar)2 to (foo)(bar) (ie
2L2->2L, 4M2->4m) but many of the damage ratings have been revised for
better balance and such. As a result you'd do better to just get
something which has all the new damage codes (ie. Cannon Companion,
which has all of them listed in the back).

-George Waksman
Message no. 3
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Thanatos)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sat Jun 1 14:50:01 2002
> quick reference manual, but I need to know how those old SR1 damage codes
> translate into SR2 or 3. I've got a kind of lead on it, based on what they
> gave for a sword which was (Str)M2. I know in 2nd Ed just by looking it up
> that that's (Str + 2)M, but what about damage codes like 6D2, or 5S2 for
> instance? In other words I'm needin' to know how these compounds would affect
> my players but the old rules are confusing because I never played that
> system. Help? Please?!?

As is stated before, there is no true conversion equation between the two
damage codes. But you can approximate most SR3 damage codes by adding the
staging of the SR1 code to its power. So a 5M3 assault rifle becomes an
8M assault rifle. Or a 4S2 shotgun becomes a 6S shotgun. That should
work in most cases.

ACP

-------------------------------------------------------------

The essence of life is struggle and its goal
is domination. There are higher goals and
deeper meanings, but they exist only within
the mind of man. The reality of life is war.

-- The Way and The Power
Lovret
Message no. 4
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Anders Swenson)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sat Jun 1 17:15:01 2002
----- Original Message -----
From: "Thanatos" <grendel@*****.veldt.org>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions


> > quick reference manual, but I need to know how those old SR1 damage
codes
> > translate into SR2 or 3.
...
>. But you can approximate most SR3 damage codes by adding the
> staging of the SR1 code to its power.
...
Or just look up equivalint stuff in Cannon Companion and in Gurth's stuff;
then
decide what you want it to be for your game. Assuming you're the GM.
--Anders
Message no. 5
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sat Jun 1 22:40:01 2002
In a message dated 6/1/2002 11:22:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
waksman@***.EDU writes:

> In 1st edition the number following the
> damage level was the number of successes needed to stage up or down a
> damage level, which has been changed to always be 2 in SR2 and SR3. So
> for a general idea you could change all (foo)(bar)2 to (foo)(bar)

That's what I was thinkin', but I thought I'd check in for opinions. Thanks
for the help and also to the two or three other replies I see but haven't
read yet. Opening those now. Much appreciated.
Message no. 6
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sun Jun 2 17:00:03 2002
>From: KiltedJamesman@***.com

>Hoi chummers,
>
>Believe it or not I've had this book for years, and only just now realized
>it
>was from the first edition of Shadowrun. No wonder the damage codes looked
>so
>funny. Speaking of the damage codes, that's what I need help with. I was
>transcribing this book into my computer along with the pertinent
>information
>from a few other books to make sort of a Starting Player's Handbook for my
>group to use when building characters and also as sort of an abbreviated
>quick reference manual, but I need to know how those old SR1 damage codes
>translate into SR2 or 3. I've got a kind of lead on it, based on what they
>gave for a sword which was (Str)M2. I know in 2nd Ed just by looking it up
>that that's (Str + 2)M, but what about damage codes like 6D2, or 5S2 for
>instance? In other words I'm needin' to know how these compounds would
>affect
>my players but the old rules are confusing because I never played that
>system. Help? Please?!?

LOL...anachronists unite!! :)

See, us SR2 barbarians can come in handy.

The number after the letter is the "staging number". That is the number of
successes necessary to stage damage down. In SR2 and 3, the staging number
was nornmalized to 2, and thus dropped from the notation. Everything
requires just 2 successes to stage a level. Now this means that a 6M2 or a
4D2 would just become a 6M and a 4D respectively. Simple. What about those
ever intimidating 6D3 or 6M4 damage codes? The best method is actually
discussed one of the SR2 books, but I do not remember where. (Hey, I
memorized the rule a long time ago, I don't need the reference, right? ;P
) Perhaps Gurth remembers. In any case, here is the rule:

The staging number from SR1 codes has a multiplier effect on the power of
the attack. Look at the staging number. Divide it by 2. The attack power
is then multiplied by the quotient. Thus, a 6D3 becomes a 9D (3/2 = 1.5).
The 6M4 becomes 12M (4/2 = 2). A 7M2 would be a 7M (2/2 = 1). Enjoy.

Korishinzo
--still no SR3 books in my collection ;)

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Message no. 7
From: shadowrn@*********.com (shadowrn@*********.com)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Sun Jun 2 18:25:01 2002
In a message dated 6/2/2002 5:02:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
korishinzo@*******.com writes:

> The staging number from SR1 codes has a multiplier effect on the power of
> the attack. Look at the staging number. Divide it by 2. The attack
power
> is then multiplied by the quotient. Thus, a 6D3 becomes a 9D (3/2 = 1.5).

> The 6M4 becomes 12M (4/2 = 2). A 7M2 would be a 7M (2/2 = 1). Enjoy.

Thankfully, all the damage codes in Shadowtech ended in a 2, but I appreciate
the input and I'll keep this reply handy. Gods know when I might come across
another SR1 book that I want to reference.
Message no. 8
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Mon Jun 3 05:30:03 2002
According to KiltedJamesman@***.com, on Sat, 01 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> I need to know how
> those old SR1 damage codes translate into SR2 or 3. I've got a kind of
> lead on it, based on what they gave for a sword which was (Str)M2. I know
> in 2nd Ed just by looking it up that that's (Str + 2)M, but what about
> damage codes like 6D2, or 5S2 for instance?

The back of the SRII rulebook gives conversion guidelines, on pages 282-283. For
critters, if the Staging (the last number, i.e. the 2 in 5D2) is 2 or less, just drop
it. If Staging is 3, add 1 to the Power Level, while if it is 4, add 2 to the Power.
For example, if you have a critter doing 5M4 damage in SR1, it will do 7M in SR2/3.

Weapons, though, work a bit differently (don't ask me why, I didn't think this up :)
Instead of using the above method, add the Staging to the Power Level -- so 5S2
becomes 7S. Keep in mind that the last sentence in the updates section of SRII is,
"Note that this method is not wholly accurate and gamemasters should be prepared to
adjust the values when needed." IOW, in man ycases you're better off using its other
recommendation: find a comparable item and use its damage code instead. For example,
if you find something that causes 3M2 damage, you could convert it to 6L -- because
light pistols used to cause 3M2 in SR1, and went to 6L in the later editions.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

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Message no. 9
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Mon Jun 3 05:30:16 2002
According to Ice Heart, on Sun, 02 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> The
> best method is actually discussed one of the SR2 books, but I do not
> remember where. (Hey, I memorized the rule a long time ago, I don't need
> the reference, right? ;P ) Perhaps Gurth remembers. In any case, here
> is the rule:
[snip rule]

That must be a house rule, as the one described in the SR2 main rulebook
(both the copies I have -- hard- and softcover :) is what I described in my
other post: add the Staging to the Power for everything except critters.

> Korishinzo
> --still no SR3 books in my collection ;)

Maybe we should start a "Get Kori Up-To-Date" collection?

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Begint eer ge bezint.
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lars Wagner Hansen)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Tue Jun 4 13:10:01 2002
From: "Gurth" <Gurth@******.nl>
<Snip>
> light pistols used to cause 3M2 in SR1, and went to 6L in the later
editions.

Wrong... Light pistols used to do 3M2 damage in SR1, in later editions
people stopped using them :-)

Lars
--
Lars Wagner Hansen, Jagtvej 11, 4180 Sorø
l-hansen@*****.tele.dk http://home4.inet.tele.dk/l-hansen
--
SRGC v0.22 SR1 SR2++ SR3+++ h+ b+++ B--- UB++ IE+ RN LST W++ dk sa++ ma+
sh++ ad++++ ri mc rk-- m- (e-- o t-- d-) gm+ M- P-
--
Main Rule of Usenet: Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to
their level, then beat you with experience.
Message no. 11
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Lone Eagle)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Wed Jun 5 04:45:01 2002
>From: Gurth <Gurth@******.nl>
> > Korishinzo
> > --still no SR3 books in my collection ;)
>
>Maybe we should start a "Get Kori Up-To-Date" collection?

Could be expensive, do FanPro do a Cuniform version? No... Latin?

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Message no. 12
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Ice Heart)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Tue Jun 11 17:50:01 2002
>From: Gurth

>According to Ice Heart, on Sun, 02 Jun 2002 the word on the street >was...

> > The best method is actually discussed one of the SR2 books, but I > >
>do not remember where. (Hey, I memorized the rule a long time ago, > > I
>don't need the reference, right? ;P ) Perhaps Gurth > >
>remembers. In any case, here is the rule:

>[snip rule]

>That must be a house rule, as the one described in the SR2 main >rulebook
>(both the copies I have -- hard- and softcover :) is what I >described in
>my other post: add the Staging to the Power for >everything except
>critters.

Well, I went digging and found that you are right on all counts (no surprise
there :> ), and did not find where I got my rule from. You may be right
that it is a house rule so old it has become etched in the stone of my brain
as cannon. :)

I would think that my rule is better actually, as a 5M4 turning into a 7M is
absolutes pathetic and does nothing to communicate the fear I remember at
knowing 4 successes were needed to stage damage down. ;>

Of course, maybe the best solution is to just use the old staging rules
again. They were pleasantly frightening...from a GM perspective.

> > Korishinzo
> > --still no SR3 books in my collection ;)

>Maybe we should start a "Get Kori Up-To-Date" collection?

LOL...it's been suggested before. :D

Korishinzo
--unrepentant throwback

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Message no. 13
From: shadowrn@*********.com (Gurth)
Subject: 1st Ed Book - Need Conversions
Date: Wed Jun 12 05:50:11 2002
According to Ice Heart, on Tue, 11 Jun 2002 the word on the street was...

> I would think that my rule is better actually, as a 5M4 turning into a 7M
> is absolutes pathetic and does nothing to communicate the fear I remember
> at knowing 4 successes were needed to stage damage down. ;>

That's why, in our last campaign as well as the current one, my group
reintroduced the SR1 Staging rating. It makes some weapons even more lethal
than they already are under the normal SR2/3 rules, but also gives a bit
more flavor, IMHO.

> Of course, maybe the best solution is to just use the old staging rules
> again. They were pleasantly frightening...from a GM perspective.

They also make hold-out pistols sort of useful again. Yes, they only do
4L1, but at least every success stages the damage up by a level, which can
make them pretty dangerous if you only get a few more successes than the
target.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Little ever changes, if anything at all
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Triangle Virtuoso <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.12: GAT/! d- s:- !a>? C++@ UL+ P(+) L++ E W--(++) N o? K w(--) O
V? PS+ PE@ Y PGP- t@ 5++ X(+) R+++$ tv+(++) b++@ DI- D+ G+ e h! !r y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

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