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Message no. 1
From: Caleb Quindrael caleb@*******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:09:49 +0200
The last few months I've heard/read several references to the Mayan
calendar calling not Dec. 23 2011 but Dec. 23 2012 the last day of the
Fifth (and therefore Dec. 24 the first of the Sixth) World.

So did FASA made a mistake when they said it was 2011?

Or was Ryomyo just an early riser? :-)

VrGr Da5id

"And in retrospect I'll say we've done no wrong. Who are we to judge what
is right and what has purpose for us? With designs upon ourselves to do no
wrong, running wild, unaware of what might come of us."
(VNV Nation - "Further")
Message no. 2
From: NeoJudas neojudas@******************.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 12:31:32 -0500
From: "Caleb Quindrael" <caleb@*******.nl>
Subject: 2011 or 2012???


> The last few months I've heard/read several references to the Mayan
> calendar calling not Dec. 23 2011 but Dec. 23 2012 the last day of the
> Fifth (and therefore Dec. 24 the first of the Sixth) World.
>
> So did FASA made a mistake when they said it was 2011?

Or did someone else? Depending on whose translation of the calendar tells
you whether or not it was what year.

> Or was Ryomyo just an early riser? :-)

Does it matter?


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
NeoJudas ("K" to Friends)
"Children of the Kernel: Reborn"
(neojudas@******************.com)
Hoosier Hacker House (http://www.hoosierhackerhouse.com/)
Message no. 3
From: Caleb Quindrael caleb@*******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:31:05 +0200
>Or did someone else? Depending on whose translation of the calendar
>tells you whether or not it was what year.

That's why I was asking: are there several different interpretations, or is
just FASA the one being off? Until now I've seen one reference to 2011
(FASA) and about 5 to 2012... (several on internet, one book, one friend
talking about it).

VrGr Da5id

"And in retrospect I'll say we've done no wrong. Who are we to judge what
is right and what has purpose for us? With designs upon ourselves to do no
wrong, running wild, unaware of what might come of us."
(VNV Nation - "Further")
Message no. 4
From: SyphonAC@***.com SyphonAC@***.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 13:34:27 EDT
It's a difference of one year. Let's not forget when this was all
written--I'd be impressed if (were any such predictions ever to happen) they
got it right within 50 years either way.

Syphon
Message no. 5
From: Caleb Quindrael caleb@*******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:35:52 +0200
>It's a difference of one year. Let's not forget when this was all
>written--I'd be impressed if (were any such predictions ever to happen) they
>got it right within 50 years either way.

Well, I'm not asking "who's right?" I personally don't believe anything of
it for real. I was just wondering why FASA had used 2011 why all the other
resources I'd read/heard used 2012 as "the year in the Mayan calendar". I
don't care which year "it would be really", only which one the Mayans said
it would be.

Especially because the date is the same. If it was a matter of "they could
be a few years off", it probably wouldn't be _exactly_ a few years. More
like, "Well, they thought it would be 23 dec. 2011, but actually it is june
4 2014. That's still pretty close..."

VrGr Da5id

"And in retrospect I'll say we've done no wrong. Who are we to judge what
is right and what has purpose for us? With designs upon ourselves to do no
wrong, running wild, unaware of what might come of us."
(VNV Nation - "Further")
Message no. 6
From: Aristotle antithesis@**********.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 14:10:32 -0400
>>>Syphon said:
"It's a difference of one year. Let's not forget when this was all
written--I'd be impressed if (were any such predictions ever to happen)
they got it right within 50 years either way."

>>>VrGr Da5id replied:
Well, I'm not asking "who's right?" I personally don't believe anything of
it for real. I was just wondering why FASA had used 2011 why all the other
resources I'd read/heard used 2012 as "the year in the Mayan calendar". I
don't care which year "it would be really", only which one the Mayans said
it would be.

<<end quotes>>

Well, if I recall correctly (and it has been some time since I looked into
the subject) it is 2012. However this may be disputed, I'm no expert. As
far as how accurate the calendar is.. it still predicts eclipses within 6
seconds of accurate time. I find that both impressive and somewhat frightening.

I don't easily buy into prophecies and predictions, and I'm not saying I
buy into this one.. I'm just hoping I'm still kicking in 2012 to see for
myself.

$0.02 with change,
-- Travis "Aristotle" Heldibridle
Message no. 7
From: Wolfstar wolfstar@********.net
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2000 15:01:07 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aristotle" <antithesis@**********.com>
To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2000 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: 2011 or 2012???


>
> Well, if I recall correctly (and it has been some time since I looked into
> the subject) it is 2012. However this may be disputed, I'm no expert. As
> far as how accurate the calendar is.. it still predicts eclipses within 6
> seconds of accurate time. I find that both impressive and somewhat
frightening.

A side-note on this one; the Awakening really kind of exploded on the Winter
Solstice, which is about 10 days shy of 2012. Also, most pagan religions
celebrate the New Year on November 1st, so for all us pagans, it WILL be
2012, at least spiritually. =)

Wolfy, still alive and kicking!
Message no. 8
From: Caleb Quindrael caleb@*******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 20:58:53 +0200
>A side-note on this one; the Awakening really kind of exploded on the Winter
>Solstice, which is about 10 days shy of 2012. Also, most pagan religions
>celebrate the New Year on November 1st, so for all us pagans, it WILL be
>2012, at least spiritually. =)

But it's not only about the year (regardless of date), but, as mentioned in
my first post, also about the exact date (which would be in the year 2013
for you... ;-)

So I'm still waiting if anyone can cofirm other sources than FASA that say
it's Dec. 23/24 2011 instead of Dec. 23/23 2012, or that FASA really
diverged (and if so, if anyone knows why, that would be even better).

VrGr Da5id

"And in retrospect I'll say we've done no wrong. Who are we to judge what
is right and what has purpose for us? With designs upon ourselves to do no
wrong, running wild, unaware of what might come of us."
(VNV Nation - "Further")
Message no. 9
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:27:10 +0200
According to Caleb Quindrael, at 19:35 on 3 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> Well, I'm not asking "who's right?" I personally don't believe anything of
> it for real. I was just wondering why FASA had used 2011 why all the other
> resources I'd read/heard used 2012 as "the year in the Mayan calendar". I
> don't care which year "it would be really", only which one the Mayans said
> it would be.

Maybe it's a (very subtle) way of saying "This isn't the real world, it's
a game setting." If it were supposed to be the real world, then I guess it
would have to be 2012 instead of '11, because that's the year people who
studied this thing tend to quote.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 10
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2000 11:27:10 +0200
According to Aristotle, at 14:10 on 3 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> Well, if I recall correctly (and it has been some time since I looked into
> the subject) it is 2012. However this may be disputed, I'm no expert. As
> far as how accurate the calendar is.. it still predicts eclipses within 6
> seconds of accurate time. I find that both impressive and somewhat frightening.

It is, but there's a major difference between "predicting" things that
happen regularly according to a pattern, and predicting things that happen
according to patterns which can't be observed (refraining from using the
word "imagined" here :) The former is fairly easy to get right and is
called science, the latter is the scope of religion.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 11
From: Scott Harrison Scott_Harrison@*****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 12:32:37 -0400
In a message from Caleb Quindrael <caleb@*******.nl>
dated Mon, 03 Jul 2000 20:58:53 +0200, my mailer made me see:

->
-> So I'm still waiting if anyone can cofirm other sources than FASA that say
-> it's Dec. 23/24 2011 instead of Dec. 23/23 2012, or that FASA really
-> diverged (and if so, if anyone knows why, that would be even better).
->

Assuming that the start of the Mayan long count was in fact on August 11, -3113 in the
Gregorian calendar*, then the date December 22, 2012 would be the start of baktun 13,
which would be represented as 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan long count. This means the last day
of baktun 12 would be December 21, 2012 and would be represented as 12.19.19.17.19 in the
long count.

* This start date is called the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson correlation and is the most
widely accepted start date. Also note that technically the Gregorian calendar did not
exist to represent this date, but has been used since most of us use the Gregorian
calendar for things. Note this date is considered September 6, 3114 B.C.E. in the Julian
calendar for those that care.

--
Scott Harrison
Message no. 12
From: Wordman wordman@*******.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 12:59:33 -0400
> The last few months I've heard/read several references to the Mayan
> calendar calling not Dec. 23 2011 but Dec. 23 2012 the last day of the
> Fifth (and therefore Dec. 24 the first of the Sixth) World.
>
> So did FASA made a mistake when they said it was 2011?

FASA got it wrong, but it might not have been their fault. Calibrating the
Mayan calendar actually took quite a while. Consensus wasn't reached until
pretty recently (the last several decades), and there are probably still
some that don't agree with the consensus.

My memory is a bit fuzzy on why it was difficult (my Mayan archeology class
was nearly a decade ago) but I think it centered on:

1) Very few dates written in Mayan glyphs could be connected to a tangible,
known date. For example, most dates are about when a certain person ruled.
There were almost no "a volcano erupted on date X" kind of entries anywhere
that could be linked through geology or carbon dating.

2) I seem to remember that rulers often lied about the length of their rule.
I might be hallucinating here. (Licking too many bufo marinus.)

Wordman
Message no. 13
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2000 22:24:44 -0500
From: Scott Harrison
Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:33 AM

> * This start date is called the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson
> correlation and is the most widely accepted start date.

I would like to point out that I actually had nothing to do with this. :)

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 14
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 10:22:28 +0200
According to Scott Harrison, at 12:32 on 5 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> Assuming that the start of the Mayan long count was in fact on August
> 11, -3113 in the Gregorian calendar*, then the date December 22, 2012
> would be the start of baktun 13, which would be represented as
> 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan long count. This means the last day of baktun
> 12 would be December 21, 2012 and would be represented as
> 12.19.19.17.19 in the long count.

A thought just struck me: there's no year 0 in our calendar, right? But if
you think there is, the Mayan->Gregorian date conversion shifts one year.
That means we end up with 21 December 2011 instead of 2012.

/me decides to stop displaying a trekkie-mentality now :)

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 15
From: Caleb Quindrael caleb@*******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 11:38:27 +0200
>A thought just struck me: there's no year 0 in our calendar, right? But if
>you think there is, the Mayan->Gregorian date conversion shifts one year.
>That means we end up with 21 December 2011 instead of 2012.

That's something I'd also thought of, but thought too implausible. I assume
FASA didn't think "Oh, day 0 in the current era of the Mayan calendar was
...." (see that post which I haven't got here at work now for the exact
date some 3100 BCE) and then calculated it all for themselves.
It seems more plausible they just looked up "Hey, when does the next era
begin?"
But well, it _is_ possible...

VrGr Da5id

"I want to go to heaven, so I build my self a tower, a lonely pillar on the
plain for no one else but me. I want to taste the clouds between my
sharpened teeth, find out if I'm a demon or a saint in disguise."
(Covenant - "Babel")
Message no. 16
From: Scott Harrison Scott_Harrison@*****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:02:03 -0400
In a message from Patrick Goodman <remo@***.net>
dated Wed, 05 Jul 2000 22:24:44 -0500, my mailer made me see:

-> From: Scott Harrison
-> Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2000 11:33 AM
->
-> > * This start date is called the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson
-> > correlation and is the most widely accepted start date.
->
-> I would like to point out that I actually had nothing to do with this. :)
->

Patrick -- when would you start the 5th World then? And how would you reckon its length?

--
Scott Harrison
Message no. 17
From: Scott Harrison Scott_Harrison@*****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 09:06:00 -0400
In a message from Gurth <gurth@******.nl>
dated Thu, 06 Jul 2000 10:22:28 +0200, my mailer made me see:

-> According to Scott Harrison, at 12:32 on 5 Jul 00, the word on the street
-> was...
->
-> > Assuming that the start of the Mayan long count was in fact on August
-> > 11, -3113 in the Gregorian calendar*, then the date December 22, 2012
-> > would be the start of baktun 13, which would be represented as
-> > 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan long count. This means the last day of baktun
-> > 12 would be December 21, 2012 and would be represented as
-> > 12.19.19.17.19 in the long count.
->
-> A thought just struck me: there's no year 0 in our calendar, right? But if
-> you think there is, the Mayan->Gregorian date conversion shifts one year.
-> That means we end up with 21 December 2011 instead of 2012.
->
->

The lack of year 0 has already been taken into account in the calculations, so the dates I
gave are correct assuming one believes the start of the Mayan long count.

--
Scott Harrison
Message no. 18
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 19:18:12 +0200
According to Scott Harrison, at 9:06 on 6 Jul 00, the word on the street
was...

> -> A thought just struck me: there's no year 0 in our calendar, right? But if
> -> you think there is, the Mayan->Gregorian date conversion shifts one year.
> -> That means we end up with 21 December 2011 instead of 2012.
>
> The lack of year 0 has already been taken into account in the
> calculations, so the dates I gave are correct assuming one believes the
> start of the Mayan long count.

That's exactly my point: _without_ a year 0, you end up in 2012 for the
start of the next age, or whatever it's called. If you do include a year 0
(which most people seem to think exists -- not long ago I and someone else
spent about fifteen minutes trying to convince someone in our SR group
that 2000 is _not_ the start of the third millennium. Anyway...), the
dates using our calendar become one year earlier. What should be 2012
becomes 2011.

Also, please note that I'm not suggesting FASA went to the trouble of
working this out :) It's just something that suddenly popped into my mind
when I was reading your original post explaining that Mayan long count
stuff.

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 19
From: Patrick Goodman remo@***.net
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 13:15:00 -0500
From: Scott Harrison
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2000 8:02 AM

> -> > * This start date is called the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson
> -> > correlation and is the most widely accepted start date.
> ->
> -> I would like to point out that I actually had nothing to do
> -> with this. :)
>
> Patrick -- when would you start the 5th World then? And how
> would you reckon its length?

Scott, did you not notice that my name is Goodman, as is whoever was
involved in the correlation you mentioned? It was a pre-emptive strike on
my part (if another person asks me if I'm related to the actor John Goodman
[the answer being, "No."], I may have to kill someone).

Incidentally, as far as I'm concerned, the world didn't exist until it (and
I, incidentally) began on April 2, 1966.

--
Patrick E. Goodman
remo@***.net
"I'm going to tell you something cool." -- Gene Wolfe
http://communities.msn.com/ShadowrunDataHaven/
Message no. 20
From: Brian Johnson expatrie@*******.net
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2000 14:31:16 -0500
> -> So I'm still waiting if anyone can cofirm other sources than FASA that say
> -> it's Dec. 23/24 2011 instead of Dec. 23/23 2012, or that FASA really
> -> diverged (and if so, if anyone knows why, that would be even better).
>
> Assuming that the start of the Mayan long count was in fact on August 11, -3113 in
the Gregorian calendar*, then the date December 22, 2012 would be the start of baktun 13,
which would be represented as 13.0.0.0.0 in the Mayan long count. This means the last day
of baktun 12 would be December 21, 2012 and would be represented as 12.19.19.17.19 in the
long count.
>
> * This start date is called the Goodman-Martinez-Thompson correlation and is the most
widely accepted start date. Also note that technically the Gregorian calendar did not
exist to represent this date, but has been used since most of us use the Gregorian
calendar for things. Note this date is considered September 6, 3114 B.C.E. in the Julian
calendar for those that care.
>
> --
> Scott Harrison

Does anyone else find it odd that there is yet another culture with a major "13"
ewww phobia? Is it genetic?




_______________________________________________
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Message no. 21
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:35:36 -0700
At 01:15 PM 7/6/00 -0500, Patrick E. Goodman wrote:

<snip>
>(if another person asks me if I'm related to the actor John Goodman
>[the answer being, "No."], I may have to kill someone).

Do I get to pick whom you you kill? If so, then, are you related? ;)


Dave
Message no. 22
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 14:38:14 -0700
At 02:31 PM 7/5/00 -0500, you wrote:
>Does anyone else find it odd that there is yet another culture with a
major "13" ewww phobia? Is it genetic?
>
>


Every culture has its phobias. For example, Asian cultures have a phobia
of 4, as the Chinese pictogragh for 4 is rather similiar to the one for
death (Chinese pictographs are actually also used by the Koreans, and the
Japanese, though not as many of the pictographs are in use.)

Dave
Message no. 23
From: paulcollins paulcollins@*******.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 09:00:26 +1000
>===== Original Message From caelric@****.com ====>At 02:31 PM 7/5/00 -0500, you
wrote:
>>Does anyone else find it odd that there is yet another culture with a
>major "13" ewww phobia? Is it genetic?
>>
>>
>
>
>Every culture has its phobias. For example, Asian cultures have a phobia
>of 4, as the Chinese pictogragh for 4 is rather similiar to the one for
>death (Chinese pictographs are actually also used by the Koreans, and the
>Japanese, though not as many of the pictographs are in use.)
>
>Dave


Bzzzt, thank you for playing.

In Japanese, it's the word that's the same, not the pictograph.

4 is pronounced shi. But they use the chinese word for 4, which is yon. 7 is
shichi (sp?)but they use nana.

The reason is that the kanji (pictograph)for death is also pronounced shi.
(The different tonal inflection is far to subtle for me to hear, but aparently
there is one. If the word is written in Hiragana then the only way to tell
the difference is from the context)

Annachie
Message no. 24
From: caelric@****.com caelric@****.com
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Thu, 06 Jul 2000 16:31:34 -0700
At 09:00 AM 7/7/00 +1000, you wrote:
>
>Bzzzt, thank you for playing.
>
>In Japanese, it's the word that's the same, not the pictograph.
>
>4 is pronounced shi. But they use the chinese word for 4, which is yon.
7 is
>shichi (sp?)but they use nana.
>
>The reason is that the kanji (pictograph)for death is also pronounced shi.
>(The different tonal inflection is far to subtle for me to hear, but
aparently
>there is one. If the word is written in Hiragana then the only way to tell
>the difference is from the context)
>
>Annachie
>

Err, well, I meant the word. In Korean, the word 'sa', in one of the
number systems used, means 4. It also means another variety of things,
including a natural death, and an evil or vice or wrong.

The Koreans use two different numbering systems, depending on the subject
referenced.

About Chinese I know little; one thing I know is that they have a
different word for the pictographs than the Koreans, who use hanja, where
the Japanese use kanji. However, an interesting tidbit: even though all
the pictographs are pronuoced differently depending on the language, they
mean approximately the same thing. So, my long ago teacher of Korean was
involved in a three way pen pal relationship between himself, a Japanese
teacher and a Chinese teacher. None of them could speak the others
language, but they could communicate in letters by using pictographs.
Interesting....

Dave
Message no. 25
From: Gurth gurth@******.nl
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2000 11:34:07 +0200
According to caelric@****.com, at 16:31 on 6 Jul 00, the word on the
street was...

> However, an interesting tidbit: even though all the pictographs are
> pronuoced differently depending on the language, they mean approximately
> the same thing. So, my long ago teacher of Korean was involved in a
> three way pen pal relationship between himself, a Japanese teacher and a
> Chinese teacher. None of them could speak the others language, but they
> could communicate in letters by using pictographs. Interesting....

There's nothing strange about that -- it's the major advantage of using a
writing system where each symbol represents a word, rather than part of
one (as ours does, and systems that represent each syllable with a symbol
do). For a modern equivalent, in a country you don't speak the language
of, go to a place where there are no signs in a language you do speak
(that tends to rule out the airport, BTW) and find a toilet without asking
the locals about it (just covering all my bases here :) I hazard a guess
that you'll be on the look-out for little signs with a stylized man or
woman on it...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Yes, I am broadcasting myself!
-> NAGEE Editor * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://plastic.dumpshock.com <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ UL P L+ E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998
Message no. 26
From: Simon and Fiona sfuller@******.com.au
Subject: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:10:39 +1000
-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.net>
To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:15 AM
Subject: RE: 2011 or 2012???



>Scott, did you not notice that my name is Goodman, as is whoever was
>involved in the correlation you mentioned? It was a pre-emptive strike on
>my part (if another person asks me if I'm related to the actor John Goodman
>[the answer being, "No."], I may have to kill someone).
>


You think you have it bad? Try having everyone who hears your last name say
"Full of what?" (the nice version) and then expect to be congratulated for
their sparkling wit.

-Simon, who has been absent for 4 days due to the phone company being
useless, and now has a lot of email to read.
Message no. 27
From: Becky McGovern beckym@********.com
Subject: Fwd: Re: 2011 or 2012???
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 10:56:22 -0700
Hi,

My ISP was mailbombed last night with spam and I received your message in
error:

>X-From_: owner-staffbull-l@********.TAMU.EDU Tue Jul 11 07:53:04 2000
>Delivered-To: beckym@********.COM
>Delivered-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>From: "Simon and Fiona" <sfuller@******.com.au>
>To: <shadowrn@*********.com>
>Subject: Re: 2011 or 2012???
>Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 11:10:39 +1000
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5
>Reply-To: shadowrn@*********.com
>Sender: shadowrn-admin@*********.com
>X-Mailman-Version: 1.1
>List-Id: Shadowrun Discussion <shadowrn.dumpshock.com>
>X-BeenThere: shadowrn@*********.com
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Patrick Goodman <remo@***.net>
>To: shadowrn@*********.com <shadowrn@*********.com>
>Date: Friday, July 07, 2000 4:15 AM
>Subject: RE: 2011 or 2012???
>
>
>
>>Scott, did you not notice that my name is Goodman, as is whoever was
>>involved in the correlation you mentioned? It was a pre-emptive strike on
>>my part (if another person asks me if I'm related to the actor John Goodman
>>[the answer being, "No."], I may have to kill someone).
>>
>
>
>You think you have it bad? Try having everyone who hears your last name say
>"Full of what?" (the nice version) and then expect to be congratulated for
>their sparkling wit.
>
>-Simon, who has been absent for 4 days due to the phone company being
>useless, and now has a lot of email to read.
>
>

Further Reading

If you enjoyed reading about 2011 or 2012???, you may also be interested in:

Disclaimer

These messages were posted a long time ago on a mailing list far, far away. The copyright to their contents probably lies with the original authors of the individual messages, but since they were published in an electronic forum that anyone could subscribe to, and the logs were available to subscribers and most likely non-subscribers as well, it's felt that re-publishing them here is a kind of public service.