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From:	Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM>
Subject:	20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:43:16 -0600

Message no. 1 >Ick. I *thought* you couldn't get a 20+ stat in shadowrun ... well,you
>*shouldn't* be able to. You can't in SR3 (to the best of
myknowledge.)>:)
Wasn't there someone on the list who'd managed to get a troll physad
with an obscene body stat, under SR3? If it wasn't 20+, it was
certainly up there.
+++++++++++++

That would (recently) be myself, in pointing out how the costs for the
"increased physical attributte" power are calculated.
Since it costs .5 per level u[p to racial max, and 1 threafter (max level
limited by magic rating), a starting troll adept could have a body of 11,
4 levels of "increased body" (for 2 power points), level 3 dermal plating,
and plastic bone lacing. That would be a natural body of 15, and 20 dice
to resist most damage (cyber + troll hide).
The sick thing is, he still has 2 power points left (for magic
resitance, in the true tradition of "Wally"). But he's pretty screwed in
other ways.

Hmm, what can you do for reaction, just in SR3... maybe wired 2 plus
level 6 reaction enhancers, in an adept elf with 7 quikness and inmproved
quickness 1? Thats a 17 reaction, +3d6, but this guy seems even less
playable than the troll.

Mongoose, "destructive playtester" for SR3

From:	Paul Gettle <RunnerPaul@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Mon, 18 Jan 1999 23:05:15 -0500

Message no. 2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

At 09:43 PM 1/18/99 -0600, Mongoose wrote:
>Wasn't there someone on the list who'd managed to get a troll physad
>with an obscene body stat, under SR3? If it wasn't 20+, it was
>certainly up there.

> That would (recently) be myself, in pointing out how the costs
for the
>"increased physical attributte" power are calculated.
>Since it costs .5 per level u[p to racial max, and 1 threafter (max
level
>limited by magic rating), a starting troll adept could have a body of
11,
>4 levels of "increased body" (for 2 power points), level 3 dermal
plating,
>and plastic bone lacing. That would be a natural body of 15, and 20
dice
>to resist most damage (cyber + troll hide).

Or, if you're just looking to strictly max out Body/Damage Resistance
Dice, and can get the GM to let you have one piece of 'ware from
Cybertech (which is still a valid book for SR3 until M&M comes out):
Troll adept, Body 11, spend 3 power points for 6 levels of increased
body, taking the troll up to 17. Then take level 3 Dermal Sheathing
and Plastic Bone Lacing. That's 23d6 for damage resistance tests.
Plus, there's still 0.4 essence left for more cyber, or 0.92 if you
take the Sheathing-3 and Plastic lacing at Alpha grade.

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--
-- Paul Gettle, #970 of 1000 (RunnerPaul@*****.com)
PGP Fingerprint, Key ID:0x48F3AACD (RSA 1024, created 98/06/26)
C260 94B3 6722 6A25 63F8 0690 9EA2 3344

From:	Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:10:12 -0800

Message no. 3 ---Mongoose <m0ng005e@*********.COM> wrote:
> Hmm, what can you do for reaction, just in
> SR3... maybe wired 2 plus level 6 reaction
> enhancers, in an adept elf with 7 quikness
> and improved quickness 1? Thats a 17 reaction,
> +3d6, but this guy seems even less playable than the
> troll.

In an experiment to see how far I could abuse the
system, I made a starting PC (a human with Resources
A) with a Reaction of 21...lessee...starting Quickness
and Intelligence of 6, of course. Add Muscle Aug 4,
Cerebral Booster 2, and a Suprathyroid gland. That
raises Quickness to 11, and Intelligence to 8. This
gives a reaction of 9 (rounding down), and 10 with the Suprathyroid.
Then pop in Enhanced Articulation,
Wired Reflexes 2, and Reaction Enhancer 6. That's 11
more points, for a final total of 21. Plus 3d6 :)

As I remember, it was the stupidest character I've
ever played. I used him once, and discarded him.
He's gonna make a damn fine NPC, though >:)

Scott
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:37:53 +0100

Message no. 4 According to Scott W, at 20:10 on 18 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> In an experiment to see how far I could abuse the
> system, I made a starting PC (a human with Resources
> A) with a Reaction of 21...
[snip]

Here we go again :)

Here's the Elven Speed Samurai 2.11, made using SRII character creation
rules:

Priorities
Race: C (Elf, More Metahumans)
Magic: E (none)
Attributes: B (24)
Skills: D (20)
Resources: A (1,000,000)

Attributes
Body: 6(7)
Quickness: 7(12)
Strength: 2(7)
Charisma: 3
Intelligence: 6(8)
Willpower: 3
Body Index: 6
Essence: .1
Reaction: 6(21)
Initiative: 21+4D6 (Yes, only with bad rolls will he have less
than 4 actions per turn.)

Skills
Athletics (Running specialization): 8(9)
Bike: 6
Firearms: 2(3)
Negotiation (Fast Talk): 7

Pools
Combat: 11

Cyberware
Reaction Enhancer (3)
Wired Reflexes (3)

Bioware
Cerebral Booster (2)
Enhanced Articulation
Muscle Augmentation (4)
Suprathyroid Gland

Contacts
Bartender
Former Troll Bounty Hunter

Gear
Ares High-Velocity Assault Rifle with Laser Sight and (4)
clips APDS
BMW Blitzen 2050
DocWagon Contract (Platinum)
Lined Coat (4/2)
(4) doses of Speed

Lifestyle
Medium

Money
3,920 + 3D6x1000

[SR3 conversion notes: raise Willpower to 6, Combat Pool to 13, and spend
10 more points on Active skills, plus add 30 points' worth of Knowledge
skills and 9 points' worth of languages.]

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:50:54 -0800

Message no. 5 ---Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
> Here's the Elven Speed Samurai 2.11, made using SRII character
creation
> rules:

I was going to say something about the More
Metahumans rule, but then I remembered that SR3 kinda
made that a moot point, having even MORE metas.
The Elf Samurai follows, heavily snipped:

> Attributes
> Quickness: 7(12)
> Intelligence: 6(8)
> Body Index: 6
> Essence: .1
> Reaction: 6(21)
> Initiative: 21+4D6 (Yes, only with bad rolls
> will he have less than 4 actions per turn.)
> Cyberware
> Reaction Enhancer (3)
> Wired Reflexes (3)
> Bioware
> Cerebral Booster (2)
> Enhanced Articulation
> Muscle Augmentation (4)
> Suprathyroid Gland

Ummm, I don't think you're quite correct on the
money aspect of the character (no offense intended here, for the
record. Just defending my creation).
See below:

Wired 3 = 500,000
Reaction Enhancer 3 = 180,000
Enhanced Articulation = 40,000
Muscle Augmentation = 180,000
Cerebral Booster 2 = 110,000
Suprathyroid = 50,000
Total = 1,060,000

Hmmm...you're over the limit, son. You'll have to
fork over that Reaction Enhancer level 3...thank you
kindly. That leaves your character at a Reaction of
20. With the four die six, you're probably still
going to go first, but at least I was able to buy
armour and a gun...better use that action to run, run,
run...

Scott (who might be wrong. Feel free to flame)
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:42:08 +0100

Message no. 6 According to Scott W, at 12:50 on 19 Jan 99, the word on
the street was...

> Ummm, I don't think you're quite correct on the
> money aspect of the character (no offense intended here, for the
> record. Just defending my creation).

I could have sworn it all added up correctly...

> Total = 1,060,000
>
> Hmmm...you're over the limit, son.

Yep, you're right.

> You'll have to
> fork over that Reaction Enhancer level 3...thank you
> kindly. That leaves your character at a Reaction of
> 20. With the four die six, you're probably still
> going to go first, but at least I was able to buy
> armour and a gun...better use that action to run, run,
> run...

Nope, just leave off the cerebral booster, that lowers Intelligence to 6
and gives 50,000 nuyen to buy gear from. Then take the edges Exceptional
Attribute (Intelligence) and Exceptional Attribute (Quickness), and spend
two of the "extra" Attribute points you get in SR3 on Quickness and
Intelligence. That still gives a Reaction of 21...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
And that's as far as the conversation went.
-> NERPS Project Leader * ShadowRN GridSec * Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
->The Plastic Warriors Page: http://shadowrun.html.com/plasticwarriors/<-
-> The New Character Mortuary: http://www.electricferret.com/mortuary/ <-

GC3.1: GAT/! d-(dpu) s:- !a>? C+(++)@ U P L E? W(++) N o? K- w+ O V? PS+
PE Y PGP- t(+) 5++ X++ R+++>$ tv+(++) b++@ DI? D+ G(++) e h! !r(---) y?
Incubated into the First Church of the Sqooshy Ball, 21-05-1998

From:	"D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 06:33:44 -0600

Message no. 7 On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:42:08 +0100 Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
<SNIP>
>Nope, just leave off the cerebral booster, that lowers Intelligence to 6
>and gives 50,000 nuyen to buy gear from. Then take the edges Exceptional
>Attribute (Intelligence) and Exceptional Attribute (Quickness), and
spend
>two of the "extra" Attribute points you get in SR3 on Quickness and
>Intelligence. That still gives a Reaction of 21...

OR, instead, since you're using SR3 with edges and flaws, get 3 levels of
Lightning Reflexes (6 point edge) which puts the reaction at 23 (24, if
you do the above as well.).

--
D. Ghost
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"We called him Mother Superior because of the length of his habit" --
Trainspotting
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

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From:	Andy Mathews <AndMat3@***.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 08:15:42 EST

Message no. 8 In a message dated 1/20/99 5:46:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, gurth@******.NL
writes:

> Nope, just leave off the cerebral booster, that lowers Intelligence to 6
> and gives 50,000 nuyen to buy gear from. Then take the edges Exceptional
> Attribute (Intelligence) and Exceptional Attribute (Quickness), and spend
> two of the "extra" Attribute points you get in SR3 on Quickness and
> Intelligence. That still gives a Reaction of 21...

ok - if you take out Wired 3 and put in Wired 2 - then take all the difference
(plus what was saved from dropping the Cerebral booster) and buy 6
additional reaction enhancers you roll 25. Now you only roll 3d6; that leaves
you at 25 + 3d6 (11) = 36 v. 21 + 4d6 (14) = 35. And you count less on dice
(random) and more on actual numbers.

but, who wants a character who goes on 36, 26, 16, 6?

andy

From:	Patrick Goodman <remo@***.NET>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:33:23 -0600

Message no. 9 From: Andy Mathews
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 1999 7:16 AM

>but, who wants a character who goes on 36, 26, 16, 6?

<sarcasm>
You don't *really* want an answer to this one, do you?
</sarcasm>

--
(>) Texas 2-Step
El Paso: Never surrender. Never forget. Never forgive.

From:	barbie@********.DE
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:05:53 +0100

Message no. 10 Andy Mathews wrote:
>
>
> but, who wants a character who goes on 36, 26, 16, 6?

Who?

I do of course, my last char was going on 52 and down.

Can't help I'm a speed freak ;)

--Barbie

From:	Scott W <see_scott_run@*****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:14:16 -0800

Message no. 11 ---Gurth <gurth@******.NL> wrote:
> Nope, just leave off the cerebral booster, that
> lowers Intelligence to 6 and gives 50,000 nuyen to
> buy gear from. Then take the edges Exceptional
> Attribute (Intelligence) and Exceptional Attribute
> (Quickness), and spend two of the "extra" Attribute
> points you get in SR3 on Quickness and Intelligence.
> That still gives a Reaction of 21...

Oop...ya got me beat now...that's a darned nifty
way of doing it :)

And in another post, D. Ghost wrote:

> OR, instead, since you're using SR3 with edges and
> flaws, get 3 levels of Lightning Reflexes (6 point
> edge) which puts the reaction at 23 (24, if
> you do the above as well).

Good plan too...those darn Edges! (As a side note:
Exceptional Attribute I can handle...Lightning
Reflexes I had shot, burned, and buried when it tried
to wander into my campaign...what an unbalancing edge
that one is...)

Scott
==

Master,
Me and Rex took the kar to town.
Stay home! STAY!
ha ha ha ha
the dog

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @*****.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

From:	"Ratinac, Rand (NSW)" <RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:59:23 +1000

Message no. 12 > OR, instead, since you're using SR3 with edges and flaws, get 3 levels
> of
> Lightning Reflexes (6 point edge) which puts the reaction at 23 (24,
> if
> you do the above as well.).
>
> D. Ghost
>
ok - if you take out Wired 3 and put in Wired 2 - then take all the
difference (plus what was saved from dropping the Cerebral booster) and
buy 6 additional reaction enhancers you roll 25. Now you only roll 3d6;
that leaves you at 25 + 3d6 (11) = 36 v. 21 + 4d6 (14) = 35. And you
count less on dice (random) and more on actual numbers.
but, who wants a character who goes on 36, 26, 16, 6?
andy

*WHOOP, WHOOP, WHOOP!..."Munckin alert! Munchkin alert!*

Just before anyone gets too excited...

D. Ghost's speedie doesn't work, because Lightning Reflexes does NOT
work with ANY enhanced reactions. It still applies to surprise or other
reaction tests - but NOT to initiative. I personally would also include
mages currently using an Increased Reflexes spell lock/sustaining focus.
(On the other hand, I once let an SRII physad with level one improved
reflexes (just +1 die, if you don't remember :) ) get this power by
paying extra - 3 points per pop as opposed to 2 - but those were my
early GMing days and this was a fairly powerful group to begin with, so
it was hardly a game breaker.)

Andy's speedie doesn't work, because, as I recall, the base speedie, as
constructed by Gurth, already included 3 reaction enhancers - and you
can only get a total of 6. Sorry, Andy. Gurth's is better.

*Doc' stomps around in his heavy military armour, waving his
flamethrower. "Join me, in my quest to rid the world of the foul stain
of Vegemite and its diabolical creators! Join me in...the Vegedeath
Brigade (TM)!!!"

Doc'

.sig Sauer

From:	"D. Ghost" <dghost@****.COM>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:51:50 -0600

Message no. 13 On Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:59:23 +1000 "Ratinac, Rand (NSW)"
<RRatinac@*****.REDCROSS.ORG.AU> writes:
<SNIP>
>D. Ghost's speedie doesn't work, because Lightning Reflexes does NOT
>work with ANY enhanced reactions.
<SNIP>

Doc, you misread... Page 26, SRCo:
"Bonuses from Lightning Reflexes do not affact Intiative dice, but they
are cumlative with any Reaction bonuses from cyberware, bioware, or
magic."

It's just saying they don't add any DICE. In effect, Lightning Reflexes
works exactly like inate Reaction Enhancers (minus the Wired Reflexes
requirement.).

--
D. Ghost (who does NOT want to be associated with that "speedie" ;)
(aka Pixel, Tantrum, RuPixel)
"We called him Mother Superior because of the length of his habit" --
Trainspotting
"A magician is always 'touching' himself" --Page 123, Grimoire (2nd
Edition)

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
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From:	Cernunnos Morrigu <cmorrigu@********.NET>
Subject:	Re: 20+ SR3 stats
Date:	Fri, 22 Jan 1999 20:53:37 -0500

Message no. 14 On 1/19/99, at 11:37 AM, Gurth wrote:

>Here we go again :)
>Here's the Elven Speed Samurai 2.11, made using SRII character creation
>rules:
<snip>

I played around with SRCG EXTC a bit and came up with some similar stats
for a starting character...
http://members.xoom.com/cmorrigu/sr/chars/losa.html
It uses SRII point system and a bunch of flaws for 163 Build Points....
($11Mil Nuyen)

And then I went with no budget just to see what could happen...
http://members.xoom.com/cmorrigu/sr/chars/losa2.html
This one really trips the Munchkin Alarm... 427 Build Points...
24+5d6 Initiative... *cringes*

Back to biz,
-CM
---
Cernunnos Morrigu | "Summer, check that door!"
cmorrigu@********.net | **BOOM**
http://members.xoom.com/cmorrigu/sr/ | "Ok, check the next one, too."

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