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Message no. 1
From: Mike Buckalew <mike_buckalew@**.CLARIS.COM>
Subject: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 13:01:13 -0700
2 Handed Sword
I happened to be reading a module last night and noticed some FASA stats for
a two handed sword. I thought it might be relevant to the thread about two
handed weapons:

Imago, by Carl Sargent (the new Line Developer), p 16

"Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"

Buck
buck@******.com
Message no. 2
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:04:31 +0200
>"Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"

Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword? Some sort of
pole-arm more likely, IMHO... Like, strap your sword to a broomstick and get
this kind of damage :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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Message no. 3
From: Stefan Struck <struck@******.INFORMATIK.UNI-BONN.DE>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:10:53 +0200
Gurth wrote:
>
> >"Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"
>
> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword? Some sort of
> pole-arm more likely, IMHO... Like, strap your sword to a broomstick and get
> this kind of damage :)
>
Isn't a Claymore this kind of sword where there knight could rest on? You know,
it's like setting it on the ground and the other end (don't know the english
word, in german it's Heft) is still on eye-level? So, I think reach 2 is ok.
But after every attack you have to make a strength test to stand tall
and not fall prone to the ground 8). Have to use this piece in one of my
adventures 8)
bye,
Stefan
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Message no. 4
From: Jani Fikouras <feanor@**********.UNI-BREMEN.DE>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 12:59:30 +0200
> 2 Handed Sword
> I happened to be reading a module last night and noticed some FASA stats for
> a two handed sword. I thought it might be relevant to the thread about two
> handed weapons:
>
> Imago, by Carl Sargent (the new Line Developer), p 16
>
> "Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"

The gangers from Dark Angel (the ones with the gator shaman) have two
handed swords with 2 reach too.

--
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Moderator of alt.c00ld00z (coolness in general)
Message no. 5
From: Stainless Steel Rat <ratinox@***.NEU.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 10:34:35 -0400
>>>>> "Gurth" == Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:

>> "Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"
Gurth> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword?

Not for a Claymore ("clad e moreh" if you'll pardon my butchery of the
language). The Scotts Claymore is a *huge* weapon, easilly 5 to 6 feet
or more from pommel to tip, and *heavy*.

--
Rat <ratinox@***.neu.edu> \ Warning: pregnant women, the elderly, and
PGP Public Key: Ask for one today! \ children under 10 should avoid prolonged
http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/ratinox/ \ exposure to Happy Fun Ball.
Message no. 6
From: Robert Watkins <bob@**.NTU.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 00:50:25 +0930
Stainless Steel Rat wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Gurth" == Gurth <gurth@******.NL> writes:
>
> >> "Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str +
2)S]"
> Gurth> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword?
>
> Not for a Claymore ("clad e moreh" if you'll pardon my butchery of the
> language). The Scotts Claymore is a *huge* weapon, easilly 5 to 6 feet
> or more from pommel to tip, and *heavy*.

The historical use, if I remember rightly, was to cut a horse out from
underneath someone, and then to cut the someone in two as you follow the
spin around... A claymore wasn't too likely to hit you, but it'd probably
kill on a near miss.

--
Robert Watkins bob@**.ntu.edu.au
Real Programmers never work 9 to 5. If any real programmers
are around at 9 am, it's because they were up all night.
*** Finger me for my geek code ***
Message no. 7
From: Michael Orion Jackson <moj0001@****.ACS.UNT.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 10:39:07 -0500
On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >"Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"
>
> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword? Some sort of
> pole-arm more likely, IMHO... Like, strap your sword to a broomstick and get
> this kind of damage :)
>
Claymores are over six feet long on average. That's the reach 2 bit. As
far as the damage is concerned, it doesn't surprise me at all. The
claymore (claud hai mor) is probably one of the most fearsome swords ever
made. But the damn thing is so heavy, i'd put a ROF limitation on the
thing, say 1 swiong every other round unless your strength is greater
than or equal to five.
>
> Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> It's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny
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> B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
>

__________________________________________________________________________
|Michael Orion Jackson |"A college student is a mechanism for |
|moj0001@****.acs.unt.edu |converting caffeine into finished |
|>Flaming is immature.< |homework" -unknown, but perceptive author |
__________________________________________________________________________
Message no. 8
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:44:24 -0500
> > >> "Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str +
2)S]"
> > Gurth> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword?
> >
> > Not for a Claymore ("clad e moreh" if you'll pardon my butchery of the
> > language). The Scotts Claymore is a *huge* weapon, easilly 5 to 6 feet
> > or more from pommel to tip, and *heavy*.
>
> The historical use, if I remember rightly, was to cut a horse out from
> underneath someone, and then to cut the someone in two as you follow the
> spin around... A claymore wasn't too likely to hit you, but it'd probably
> kill on a near miss.
>
The stats are not unreasonable (except maybe concealability- most clamores
have huge gaurds and no scabard). However, like etched field plate, clamores
were mainly dispaly arms, and rather impractical on the batlefield. At least,
impractical for mediaval humans. Easy one hander for most trolls, and not
impractiacal for most races, given a little augmentation. And maybe give it
an evenm higher Knockdown target- this hits with more momentum than a pole
ax. I believe the concept was to, at the very least, bludgion an armored
taget to the ground, then threaten to skewer him (most medival combat was for
captives, at least among the knights, not the foot soldiers).
Message no. 9
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 19:15:07 GMT
> >"Claymore [two-handed sword; Concealability 2, Reach 2, (Str + 2)S]"
> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword? Some sort of
> pole-arm more likely, IMHO... Like, strap your sword to a broomstick and get
> this kind of damage :)

Reach can get counterproductive... Look at an old pike, for instance, or
a Greek sarissa. Sixteen feet of shaft, then a blade... wow! Got to be
Reach 4, right? Except what happens when you get past the point and it
becomes a very poor bludgeon? In massed groups it's deadly. In a one-on
one fight it's suicidal.

I limit "reach advantage" to +1 and the penalty to -1 for this reason:
get inside the long weapon and you're winning. In the extreme imagine
grappling someone: you have razors, they have a monowhip or polearm. Who
has the advantage?

My own opinion on "reach" goes as follows:
Reach 0 - fists, saps, knives up to 6" or so
Reach 1 - nightsticks, truncheons, rifle butts, one-handed swords
Reach 2 - spears, two-handed swords, staffs, monowhips.

Basically if you want Reach 2 you need both hands, the monowhip being
an exception. And while you can swing a rifle by the barrel and get
+2 reach, you tend to break it :-)

Others seem to imagine you need six feet of weapon to get Reach 2: fair
enough, I felt it made combat axes overpowerful. I adapted the katana to
(Str+3)M damage, reach 2, and made the rulebook katana into a wakizashi,
added a few other two-handers, and now we are all happy ;-)

The naginata (a swordblade on a pole) is a "polearm" and does Serious base
damage in my system, BTW. And yes, it has Reach 2...

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 10
From: Duke Diener <DukeDragon@***.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 01:28:51 -0400
seb wrote:

<snip snip>
> most clamores have huge gaurds
<snip a bit more>

Actually most Claymores had a simple cross-guard that extended perhaps 6 from
the grip. But you are correct in that the weapon would be very hard to hide
unless you were a troll, and even then you would be walking a bit stiff
(although I don't think anyone would mention it to you :)).

Duke
Message no. 11
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 11:26:43 +0200
>Gurth> Reach 2 and (Str+2)S? Isn't that a bit much for a sword?
>
>Not for a Claymore ("clad e moreh" if you'll pardon my butchery of the
>language). The Scotts Claymore is a *huge* weapon, easilly 5 to 6 feet
>or more from pommel to tip, and *heavy*.

Ah. I always pictured those things as something like an ordinary sword with
a basket-type grip (don't know the correct term, but I mean one of those
grips with an ornate hand protector)... This thing more resembles those huge
swords of those German Landsknechts, then?


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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Message no. 12
From: Forgotten Horror <phinar@**.CENCOM.NET>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 20:12:20 EDT
>Reach can get counterproductive... Look at an old pike, for instance, or
>a Greek sarissa. Sixteen feet of shaft, then a blade... wow! Got to be
>Reach 4, right? Except what happens when you get past the point and it
>becomes a very poor bludgeon? In massed groups it's deadly. In a one-on
>one fight it's suicidal.

>I limit "reach advantage" to +1 and the penalty to -1 for this reason:
>get inside the long weapon and you're winning. In the extreme imagine
>grappling someone: you have razors, they have a monowhip or polearm. Who
>has the advantage?

Good point/nice fix. I think the argument is one of the most sensible
to yet evolve in my limited experience with this list. Although I
would extend that with trolls. I have the distinct impression that
they would be capable of fighting effectively within their 1 reach as
well as beyond it, and still able to capitalize on the additional
reach provided by a longer weapon. Unfortunately, this kinda makes
trolls *even better* at h-t-h, and I'm not sure they need the extra
boost. Need to playtest that one a few times before engraving it in
stone...

>Others seem to imagine you need six feet of weapon to get Reach 2: fair
>enough, I felt it made combat axes overpowerful. I adapted the katana to
>(Str+3)M damage, reach 2, and made the rulebook katana into a wakizashi,
>added a few other two-handers, and now we are all happy ;-)

How did it make combat axes too powerful? My own interpretation was
that it was expressed in meters: if the weapon exceeds "x" meters, it
has at least an "x" reach. The average troll's reach sits about 1.25m,
the average human about .75m (all in very round numbers); a sword is
an average 1m, a bullwhip around 2m -- if a person wanted to get
*really* particular about it, (s)he could run all the numbers for
length & add 'em up. This would get you a figure for reach that was a
twitch more precise, at least. And more workable, though it would
probably stomp dwarves mercilessly (does anyone actually play those
much anyway? or does everyone already anticipate being a football?).

At any rate, your categories aren't unworkable.

On the other hand, I would guess that a serious "pole arm," such as a
pike awl, a halbred, etc. would have an effective reach of +(length in
meters), but an ineffectiveness inside (length in meters)- 1 or 2m,
simply because it *would* be an ineffective bludgeon or, at best, a
quarterstaff with a pointy bit.



<G>
(phinar@******.net)
Message no. 13
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 16:40:03 BST
OK chummers, Claymore from the Gaelic (no, I'm not going to spell it..)
meaning great sword :- wahat we are talking here is about 5-6 feet of
steel, with a scotsman behind it... pretty scary in my book :-)

Concealability 0 uinless you're a troll I would have said..


Those stats are probably right, comparing it with a combat/battle axe,
which does StrS-odd damage... And it makes for easy hand and a half swords,
either they do the same damage as a regular sword and get the full +2 reach,
or they get the increased damage and +1 reach, GMD... though I'd go for the
former.,,

Paul has it about right, maybe 3' of weapon gets you a point of reach...
though I don;t see why a quarterstave gets +2, maybe if you held it like a
baseball bat and swang it around your head.... or used it as a thrusting
weapon....


I though the traditional claymore guard was two small (compared to the blade)
straight quillons, and maybe a circular paret over the point where the blade
meets the hilt meets the guard...


BTW Mr Gurth (or whoever it was) the siongle handed basket hilted
broadswords were referred to as claymore during the 17-18th century
(I think... I'm not a history geek :-) )

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 14
From: Sebastian Wiers <seb@***.RIPCO.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 17:53:42 -0500
>
> Paul has it about right, maybe 3' of weapon gets you a point of reach...
> though I don;t see why a quarterstave gets +2, maybe if you held it like a
> baseball bat and swang it around your head.... or used it as a thrusting
> weapon....

I see a quarterstaff getting two reach because of the fast, hard to block,
sweeping and reach pentrating techniques of the style. That, and if it got
one reach, it would be a big club.
Sebastian Wiers
Message no. 15
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 12:24:26 +0200
>BTW Mr Gurth (or whoever it was)

Yep, it was me, but you can leave off the "Mr" :)

>the siongle handed basket hilted
>broadswords were referred to as claymore during the 17-18th century

So that must have been what got me confused...

>(I think... I'm not a history geek :-) )

I sort of am, but not of that area and period of history :(


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
It's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny
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Message no. 16
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 13:25:30 BST
_Mr_ Gurth :-
> Yep, it was me, but you can leave off the "Mr" :)

Oh, I don't know, our unnoficial shadowrun guru's deserve a title
of some sort, and I find "Maximum Leader" so distasteful.... :-)



If you're looking for a good book on swords (ie. with lots of
pictures for the non-history geeks ;-) ) then I'd suggest,

"Medieval Swords in the Tower of London"

or something ike that.... some of my favourite designs for magical
weapons have come from there.

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 17
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 15:38:15 -0400
On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:

> I limit "reach advantage" to +1 and the penalty to -1 for this reason:
> get inside the long weapon and you're winning. In the extreme imagine
> grappling someone: you have razors, they have a monowhip or polearm. Who
> has the advantage?

This is so wrong. You'd be amazed at the ranges that weapons can
be brought to bear in. With pikes, I can agree that it is a
group-oriented weapon, but spears, etc. can be used just as effectively
up-close-and-personal as anything else.

> The naginata (a swordblade on a pole) is a "polearm" and does Serious
> base damage in my system, BTW. And yes, it has Reach 2...

Actually, this is one of the weapons I was thinking of
specifically when I made the above statement. The naginata can easily be
used in unarmed hand-to-hand range. The yari as well. There isn't
really any disadvantage to using them at that range if you know what
you're doing.

Marc
Message no. 18
From: Marc A Renouf <jormung@*****.UMICH.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 16:06:06 -0400
On Sat, 1 Jul 1995, Gurth wrote:

> >Not for a Claymore ("clad e moreh" if you'll pardon my butchery of the
> >language). The Scotts Claymore is a *huge* weapon, easilly 5 to 6 feet
> >or more from pommel to tip, and *heavy*.
>
> Ah. I always pictured those things as something like an ordinary sword with
> a basket-type grip (don't know the correct term, but I mean one of those
> grips with an ornate hand protector)... This thing more resembles those huge
> swords of those German Landsknechts, then?

Actually, you are both correct. The term claymore refers not to
a single type of sword, but to a whole group of bladed weapons. The
"basket-hilted claymore" is exactly the type of weapon you had originally
envisioned, Gurth, and it was actually used in only one hand.
Furthermore, it was *much* more common than the gigantic two-handed version.

Marc (rampant Scotsman on the loose...)
Message no. 19
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 1995 23:20:48 GMT
> OK chummers, Claymore from the Gaelic (no, I'm not going to spell it..)

Claidh heamh mor :-)

> meaning great sword :- wahat we are talking here is about 5-6 feet of
> steel, with a scotsman behind it... pretty scary in my book :-)

Can your mother sew? Have her stitch this, y'bastard! :-)

> Concealability 0 uinless you're a troll I would have said..

Yep... five or six feet of sword does not hide. OTOH carrying that around
dissuades anyone without firearms, even if you just have it slung...

> Paul has it about right, maybe 3' of weapon gets you a point of reach...
> though I don;t see why a quarterstave gets +2, maybe if you held it like a
> baseball bat and swang it around your head.... or used it as a thrusting
> weapon....

Quarterstaves were usually used at their full length: you get a lot more
momentum in the swing. If you hold it in the middle and bat the other guy
with the end, you'll just make him angry: a full swing from an iron-bound
staff would break bone.

I like spears for this reason: it's flexible. Either a spear or a staff,
depending whether you want to kill or batter into unconsciousness. Lynch
uses a tomahawk for the same reason: axe head and hammer back, built on
an ASP folding baton (makes it more concealable) so you can strike for
Physical or Stun damage (Str+2 S physical or Str+3 M mental damage, reach
1, concealability 6 folded or 4 unfolded). Handy.

> I though the traditional claymore guard was two small (compared to the blade)
> straight quillons, and maybe a circular paret over the point where the blade
> meets the hilt meets the guard...

Usually just two small quillons. It wasn't really a defensive weapon :-)

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 20
From: Paul Jonathan Adam <Paul@********.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 01:46:19 GMT
> On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Paul Jonathan Adam wrote:
> > I limit "reach advantage" to +1 and the penalty to -1 for this reason:
> > get inside the long weapon and you're winning. In the extreme imagine
> > grappling someone: you have razors, they have a monowhip or polearm. Who
> > has the advantage?
>
> This is so wrong. You'd be amazed at the ranges that weapons can
> be brought to bear in. With pikes, I can agree that it is a
> group-oriented weapon, but spears, etc. can be used just as effectively
> up-close-and-personal as anything else.

Depends... playing around "after hours" at my fencing club gave a different
answer, at least re. swords.

Rifles are another matter... a crazy NCO taught us how to use every damned
part of our rifles to hurt people with :-) Butt, rearsight, pistol grip,
magazine, fore-end, foresight, barrel, bayonet lugs, the works. But someone
grappling is still difficult: the best approach is to keep struggling and
keep the guy busy until one of your buddies lays a buttstroke into his head.
On the other hand the way we were holding the rifles, and the constraints of
the sling, meant you'd be lucky to get Reach 1 anyway.

And, without being rude, I would like to know how a 8' spear is useful in
a grapple. If there is a trick to it, I want to know so I can torment my
players with it :-)

> > The naginata (a swordblade on a pole) is a "polearm" and does Serious
> > base damage in my system, BTW. And yes, it has Reach 2...
>
> Actually, this is one of the weapons I was thinking of
> specifically when I made the above statement. The naginata can easily be
> used in unarmed hand-to-hand range. The yari as well. There isn't
> really any disadvantage to using them at that range if you know what
> you're doing.

But does it provide an advantage similar to +2 for the attacker and -2 for
the defender? That makes the wielder invincible: you need 2s, your opponent
sixes. And if that is realistic, is that the effect you want in the game?
I play a more cinematic style than all-out realism.

Please note my system still gives your spear/naginata/yari-wielding
warrior an advantage, even if Stevie Samurai is bearhugging him and raking
razors over his ribs: Stevie is still at +1, your warrior at -1. Threes
against fives. I felt that was more realistic and certainly more playable:
trolls with combat axes became invincible otherwise.

And if you strictly enforce the official Reach modifiers, wait for the players
who want swordbreaker knives or other disarming tools...

--
When you have shot and killed a man, you have defined your attitude towards
him. You have offered a definite answer to a definite problem. For better
or for worse, you have acted decisively.
In fact, the next move is up to him.

Paul J. Adam paul@********.demon.co.uk
Message no. 21
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 11:57:57 +0200
>There isn't
>really any disadvantage to using them at that range if you know what
>you're doing.

Ah, but that's the whole problem, isn't it? :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
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Message no. 22
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 1995 14:55:50 BST
Paul Wrote :-
> Can your mother sew? Have her stitch this, y'bastard! :-)

Hey, I like it, a genuine scottish insult... I can hear Gregor
Fisher (you know, the guy who plays Rab C Nesbitt) shouting it
outside the high street fish shop now.... :-)

I must go and find the welsh equivalent :-)


I always liked staves with spring out spikes on the top, and
I have to confes that I usually saw stave fighting as
something along the robin hood style, yoiu know, two guys
clacking it together and holding it ion the centre, swinging
both ends....the only time I saw them using +2 reach was a
thrust with two hands nearly at one end of the staff itself...

Phil (Renegade)
Message no. 23
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 11:32:52 +0200
>Hey, I like it, a genuine scottish insult... I can hear Gregor
>Fisher (you know, the guy who plays Rab C Nesbitt) shouting it
>outside the high street fish shop now.... :-)

Yeah, too bad it's really difficult to understand what the hell he's saying,
otherwise I might watch that show more often :)


Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Coming up after the break: more of the same nonsense!
Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
Message no. 24
From: P Ward <P.Ward@**.CF.AC.UK>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 12:42:56 BST
Gurth :-
>>Hey, I like it, a genuine scottish insult... I can hear Gregor
>>Fisher (you know, the guy who plays Rab C Nesbitt) shouting it
>>outside the high street fish shop now.... :-)
>
> Yeah, too bad it's really difficult to understand what the hell
> he's saying, otherwise I might watch that show more often :)

Hey, I;m welsh Boyo, and I have a hard time understanding some of the
fast bits... but when you do it is really worth it :-)

Phil (Rnegade)
Message no. 25
From: Jason Salem <jsalem@********.NET>
Subject: Re: 2 Handed Sword
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 20:52:02 -0500
Well, that explains the 'claymore' in Rob Roy (da movie). And here I was
thinking,
what a tiny little sword <g>

>>BTW Mr Gurth (or whoever it was)
>
>Yep, it was me, but you can leave off the "Mr" :)
>
>>the siongle handed basket hilted
>>broadswords were referred to as claymore during the 17-18th century
>
>So that must have been what got me confused...
>
>>(I think... I'm not a history geek :-) )
>
>I sort of am, but not of that area and period of history :(
>
>
>Gurth@******.nl - Gurth@***.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
> It's all about money, ain't a damn thing funny
>Geek Code v2.1: GS/AT/! -d+ H s:- !g p?(3) !au a>? w+(+++) v*(---) C+(++) U
>P? !L !3 E? N++ K- W+ -po+(po) Y+ t(+) 5 !j R+(++)>+++$ tv+(++) b+@ D+(++)
>B? e+ u+@ h! f--(?) !r(--)(*) n---->!n y? Unofficial Shadowrun Guru :)
>
>

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