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Message no. 1
From: Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
Subject: 2 shotguns
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:11:10 -0500
Last time, I asked whether or not someone with a high str could hold an
assault rifle in each hand. Now can a plain person hold a shotgun in each
hand?
Dust
Message no. 2
From: Airk <jfrank@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 13:24:26 -0700
Dust wrote:
>
> Last time, I asked whether or not someone with a high str could hold an
> assault rifle in each hand. Now can a plain person hold a shotgun in each
> hand?
> Dust
What do _you_ think Mr. GM? ;)

I would say yes but increase the recoil for the second shot big time.
Again you can get picky and take hand coordination into account and
other little details..
--
Airk
comic-collector-shadowrun-freak-extraordinaire
Message no. 3
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 15:14:54 -0800
Dust wrote:
>
> Last time, I asked whether or not someone with a high str could hold an
> assault rifle in each hand. Now can a plain person hold a shotgun in each
> hand?
> Dust

Plain person? not a chance in hell (well actually he could probly hold
two maybe three in each hand but I assume you mean for firing ;). When
you ask most people will tell you that a shotgun has less kick than a
pistol, and that is true, because you fire a shotgun braced, and you
tend to shoot them slower than a pistol. I have never tried hip-firing
a shotgun but if I did I would use two hands and still not really expect
to hit much of anything. (OK maybe like a sawn off .410 break, but
probly not)
Message no. 4
From: L Canthros <lobo1@****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Sun, 12 Jan 1997 18:58:19 EST
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997 14:11:10 -0500 Dust <rogan@*******.BERGEN.ORG>
writes:
>Last time, I asked whether or not someone with a high str could hold
>an
>assault rifle in each hand. Now can a plain person hold a shotgun in
>each
>hand?
> Dust
>
I can't think of any reason why not, but remember that a shotgun doubles
uncompensated recoil and that the second weapon would still cause a +2
modifier as listed in SRII

Canthros
--
If any man wishes peace, canthros1@***.com
let him prepare for war. lobo1@****.com
--Roman proverb
http://members.aol.com/canthros1/
Message no. 5
From: "Steven A. Tinner" <bluewizard@*****.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 01:34:42 -0500
> > Last time, I asked whether or not someone with a high str could hold an
> > assault rifle in each hand. Now can a plain person hold a shotgun in
each
> > hand?

From my personal experience, No.
I am by all accounts a rather large person (quit that laughing Bull, I can
take away that karma as easily as I give it!).
The first time I fired a .12 shotgun, the unexpected kick was so strong I
dropped the weapon.
Once I became used to it, I was able to fire from the shoulder, or the hip
without much trouble, but firing a full barrell large gauge weapon one
handed was out of the question, much less one in each hand.

Now the smaller gauge shotguns are a different matter.
I can pistol fire those w/o much trouble.
Accuracy is WAY off, but it is possible.

I have never fired a sawn-off (since they happen to be illegal in Ohio!),
so I really couldn't say.
However I have it on authority that the kick is greatly reduced.

Hope it helps.

Steven A. Tinner
bluewizard@*****.com
http://www.ncweb.com./users/bluewizard
"Not even God takes this long to get back."
Message no. 6
From: Gurth <gurth@******.NL>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 12:47:37 +0100
L Canthros said on 18:58/12 Jan 97...

> I can't think of any reason why not, but remember that a shotgun doubles
> uncompensated recoil

This is from the SRII errata, and that states that only FA-capable
shotguns double any recoil that remains after compensation. Many people
(me included) apply this rule to all shotguns, I believe.

> and that the second weapon would still cause a +2 modifier as listed in
> SRII

+2 for each weapon, recoil of one weapon applies to the other one as
well, and bonuses of smartlinks etc. don't count for either gun. All in
all that makes it pretty hard to hit something at all...

--
Gurth@******.nl - http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/index.html
Any two can play.
-> NERPS Project Leader & Unofficial Shadowrun Guru <-
-> The Plastic Warriors Page: http://www.xs4all.nl/~gurth/plastic.html <-

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Message no. 7
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 10:11:05 -0800
Gurth wrote:
>
> L Canthros said on 18:58/12 Jan 97...
>
> > I can't think of any reason why not, but remember that a shotgun doubles
> > uncompensated recoil
>
> This is from the SRII errata, and that states that only FA-capable
> shotguns double any recoil that remains after compensation. Many people
> (me included) apply this rule to all shotguns, I believe.
>
> > and that the second weapon would still cause a +2 modifier as listed in
> > SRII
>
> +2 for each weapon, recoil of one weapon applies to the other one as
> well, and bonuses of smartlinks etc. don't count for either gun. All in
> all that makes it pretty hard to hit something at all...
>

The following example is very OTT, just warning.

Unless he's firing buckshot, example- guy with 2 smartlinks (first
practical use I've ever heard for having two) rangefinder, and vision
mags two and str 5, will have a target of two at any range between 8 and
40 meters (pretty good engagement range) before cover or vision (same
target as a guy with above and a HP) in addition he's attacking with a
6s* 4 times a round at that target, and can hit numerous targets per
shot. While I think a shotgun is a nice weapon assuming it requires no
more effort to fire than a pistol makes it an incredibly powerful
weapon.

*Yes you apply double impact so it has an effective power of zero
against a guy in a armor jacket, but a one still fails, and he needs six
more success than I got. So while dual HPs in most cases lose
effectiveness dual SGs actually gains effectiveness.
Message no. 8
From: Ted Cabeen <cabeen@******.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 14:32:02 -0800
>The following example is very OTT, just warning.
>
>Unless he's firing buckshot, example- guy with 2 smartlinks (first
>practical use I've ever heard for having two) rangefinder, and vision
>mags two and str 5, will have a target of two at any range between 8 and
>40 meters (pretty good engagement range) before cover or vision (same
>target as a guy with above and a HP) in addition he's attacking with a
>6s* 4 times a round at that target, and can hit numerous targets per
>shot. While I think a shotgun is a nice weapon assuming it requires no
>more effort to fire than a pistol makes it an incredibly powerful
>weapon.
You can't use Smartlinks and Mag scopes together. With a mag scope 3 and a
laser sight, which you can use together, you can get a TN of 3 on all
targets before cover and vision, but you can't get a TN of 2. I like the
mossberg with the mag 3, laser sight, Imp gas vent 4 and Shock Pads. That
gives two bursts at TN 3 at any range each doing 12D. Although the Franchi
is more concealable and does more damage, I've found that I can only get a
few bursts off before having to reload the magazine, which takes a while,
while the Mossberg is clipped, so the reload time is *much* less.
--
______________________________________________________________________________
Ted Cabeen http://shadowland.rh.uchicago.edu cabeen@******.com
Check Website or finger for PGP Public Key secabeen@******.uchicago.edu
"I have taken all knowledge to be my province." -F. Bacon cococabeen@***.com
"Human kind cannot bear very much reality."-T.S.Eliot 73126.626@**********.com
Message no. 9
From: Tim Cooper <tpcooper@***.CSUPOMONA.EDU>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Mon, 13 Jan 1997 17:15:13 -0800
On Mon, 13 Jan 1997, Charles Baker wrote:

> Gurth wrote:

[snip]

> > +2 for each weapon, recoil of one weapon applies to the other one as
> > well, and bonuses of smartlinks etc. don't count for either gun. All in
> > all that makes it pretty hard to hit something at all...
> >
>
> The following example is very OTT, just warning.
>
> Unless he's firing buckshot, example- guy with 2 smartlinks (first
> practical use I've ever heard for having two) rangefinder, and vision
> mags two and str 5, will have a target of two at any range between 8 and
> 40 meters (pretty good engagement range) before cover or vision (same
> target as a guy with above and a HP) in addition he's attacking with a
> 6s* 4 times a round at that target, and can hit numerous targets per
> shot. While I think a shotgun is a nice weapon assuming it requires no
> more effort to fire than a pistol makes it an incredibly powerful
> weapon.

[snip]

Well, remember that shotguns firing buckshot only get a -1 bonus from a
smartlinks (SRII pg 95, last paragraph) and don't think you can use duel
smartlinks. This comes from 2 places 1) Sprawl sites (1st ed.) had
somthing like that in the little 'encounters' section and it gave a +2
penalty due to confusion, and 2) common sence...good luck trying to focus
on two targetting sights at the same time, we DO have two eyes, but they
don't work independently..

However I do agree that a BF or FA shotgun set on choke 2 or 3 is an
execellent solution to room full of people.
y
~Tim
Message no. 10
From: Charles Baker <karolusb@**.NETCOM.COM>
Subject: Re: 2 shotguns
Date: Tue, 14 Jan 1997 01:12:05 -0800
I wrote
>
> >The following example is very OTT, just warning.
> >
> >Unless he's firing buckshot, example- guy with 2 smartlinks (first
> >practical use I've ever heard for having two) rangefinder, and vision
> >mags two and str 5, will have a target of two at any range between 8 and
> >40 meters (pretty good engagement range) before cover or vision

Ted Cabeen wrote:
> You can't use Smartlinks and Mag scopes together. With a mag scope 3 and a
> laser sight, which you can use together, you can get a TN of 3 on all
> targets before cover and vision, but you can't get a TN of 2.

That is said under scopes, not to the best of my knowledge under
cybernetic vision enhancement. BTW I do this differently, your mag
level can be one higher than your smartlink(and mags don't work as
effectively in my game)- otherwise the scope must besighted to a
specific range, something that is impracticle in game terms and I
woudln't want to deal with. Oh and laser sights don't have a very good
range- especially during the day.

Tim Cooper wrote:
> Well, remember that shotguns firing buckshot only get a -1 bonus from a
> smartlinks (SRII pg 95, last paragraph) and don't think you can use duel
> smartlinks.

Firing two weapons cancels the bonus of a smartlink or laser sight p 90
SR2.

You both missed the point- the targert number reductions come from the
buckshot, the smartgun links are just there to adjust the smartchoke a
free action and I would argue that if your setting the same level of
choke on both it would be one free action (the reason for the
rangefinder is to determine optimal choke). Of course I wouldn't allow
it I was just pointing out what could happen if someone did allow it
(well actually I would allow it with a roomsweeper type weapon but I
don't allow the roomsweeper as listed, too high a concealability maybe a
five but definately not an eight).

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